For anti-immigrant people

[_Jumper_]

Name a SPECIFIC decade when immigration became evil and explain why. Code words and phrases need not be used. Tell us what you really think. Thanks in advance.

[locustfist76]

1. I'm not sure

I'm not sure you'll find any anti-immigrant crusaders in this particular forum. However, you'll find people who have enough common sense who agree that you can't have an open, unchecked border for just anyone to cross. You need laws and limitations when dealing with immigration. Could our country support an influx of 50 million immigrants this year? I doubt it. Also, there is a big difference between legal immigrants and illegal immigrants.

[_Jumper_]

2. We have them here

I have seen several spout right-wing anti-immigration talking points.
They just don't talk about it 24/7 like their Freeper counterparts but whenever the issue is broached the crusaders arrive rapidly.

[JasonDeter]

7. WoW. So what your saying, if one doesn't agree with you they're freepers?

Define a freeper for me again LOL!

[_Jumper_]

8. No

Re-read what I said. Freepers and DU'ers agree on some issues, as hard as that is to believe.

So when did immigration become a bad thing????

[JasonDeter]

14. I don't think immigration is a bad thing

just illegal immigration. I no many many people who can't find jobs and I know there are many many people who would love a second job to pay off some of the credit card debt or may a car. Illegal immigration is hurting American's. Even the Hispanic community is against illegal immigration for gawds sake!

[OhioStateProgressive]

15. i don't think that is fair

I don't think it is fair for a person to expect to get a second job before an immigrant get's their first job.

Credit card debt sucks, but it is not a good enough reason to hold a job and keep it from someone who needs it to feed their family.

[Brian Sweat]

31. Immigration is not necessarily a bad thing.

However, there are six billion people in the world and most of them would like to live in the U.S. If we allow them all to come here, it would be a disaster. There has to be a limit to how many we allow to come here and the rate at which we allow them to come. We cannot have 25 million people immigrate here a year, that would be a economic disaster.

On the other hand, race based immigration laws designed to maintain ethnic purity are an abomination.

[ldoolin]

34. Not right wing

Reducing mass immigration was until recently the policy of both the labor movement and the environmental movement, until the 1990s post-modernist mindset started taking hold in those movements. Since the 1990s are over, maybe it's time the post-modernist psycho-babble be dispensed with as well.

Even the Socialist Party originally had reducing or limiting immigration into the U.S. in their platform, a century ago.

Completely open borders is the position of the far right wing, namely, the "free" market libertarians and their ilk.

Conservative corporations have long used increasing mass immigration and tolerating illegal immigration as a way of applying downward pressure on wages, circumventing and weakening labor unions, and replacing high-paying union jobs with low-paying non-union ones. A strong union movement needs the labor movement to be able to limit entry into the unionized workplaces to union members. Limited population growth, or even better, negative population growth, also results in limited job market entry and increased wages.

[La_Serpiente]

3. They are here

they'll be here in the morning.

[_Jumper_]

4. They were here a short time ago

:(

[izzie]

5. I like it that we are a mixed bag of people.

But I see no reason that people can not get in line and come in as the law wants. What is going on with just pushing in is all will do that if they can, knowing it will be OK in a few years. Each year it will be more. It does not seem like the right way to do it. I believe the posse comitatas(sp) law said we can not use army in this country but I think we must, if people are just going to walk in.I do not think we had this trouble before as people came in under the law.

[_Jumper_]

6. Many of them killed the native populations and stole their land

We essentially had open borders until 1924. If a person didn't have a disease and was European they were allowed to enter America legally.

[Elwood P Dowd]

9. Without order, there is disorder

which describes our southern border. A country that cannot control it's borders will eventually become a country in chaos.

With state and federal governments stretched to their budget limits, the last thing we need is more illegal immigration. The drain on resources is enormous. It's time to call timeout and rethink our strategy. Our quarterback, George Bushit, has called the wrong play.

[_Jumper_]

11. Name a specific decade

n/t

[Bridget Burke]

10. Historical note here (I'm not one of the anti's)

Looking down on the latest group of immigrants is an old American tradition. The "Know Nothings" did it in the 1850's.

[_Jumper_]

12. Good point

And they have been saying EXACTLY the same thing each time. :eyes:

[OhioStateProgressive]

13. I don't believe immigration to be a bad thing

I think immigration is good, I don't believe immigration hurts jobs or the economy that much.
I prefer natural immigration to 'importatation', where corporate america is bringing in foreigners for jobs. But overall I think immigration is fine in this country.

[Elwood P Dowd]

16. I like deer

I enjoy watching them, and would never let anyone hunt them on my property. Eventually, the deer read my mind. They took advantage of me. They destroyed my garden two summers ago. Had a merry ole' time eating my beans and peas. Did the same thing last summer to an extent, but my newly purchase hound dog ran enough off to at least allow me to enjoy the fruits of my labor. The hunters I allowed on my property took care of the rest this winter. Now I can enjoy fresh vegetables again. The farm is back to normal.

The deer will go back to their headquarters and ask the head deer in his territory why is he stealing all the food. Maybe they will overthrow the bastard and stop eating my food.

[OhioStateProgressive]

17. I don't believe that is relevant(nt)

[Elwood P Dowd]

18. 50 billionaires in Mexico

Hundreds of millionaires. Think about it.

[OhioStateProgressive]

20. so what

I don't admire societies that allow people to become millionaires and billionaires.


Joda los gentes rico

[Elwood P Dowd]

21. IOW, Fox and friends

want to dump millions of 'em on us so they don't have to take care of 'em. Puts more money in their pockets, and gives US companies plenty of cheap labor that drives down our wages even more. It's also a profitable way to sneak illegal drugs across the border. Ain't NAFTA and illegal immigration great? Fox and Bushit absolutely love it.

[OhioStateProgressive]

22. "them"?...."us"?

what the fuck man?

Us, and them
And after all we’re only ordinary men.
Me, and you.
God only knows it’s noz what we would choose to do.
Forward he cried from the rear
And the front rank died.
And the general sat and the lines on the map
Moved from side to side.
Black and blue
And who knows which is which and who is who.
Up and down.
But in the end it’s only round and round.
Haven’t you heard it’s a battle of words
The poster bearer cried.
Listen son, said the man with the gun
There’s room for you inside.

I mean, they’re not gunna kill ya, so if you give ’em a quick short,
Sharp, shock, they won’t do it again. dig it? I mean he get off
Lightly, ’cos I would’ve given him a thrashing - I only hit him once!
It was only a difference of opinion, but really...i mean good manners
Don’t cost nothing do they, eh?

Down and out
It can’t be helped but there’s a lot of it about.
With, without.
And who’ll deny it’s what the fighting’s all about?
Out of the way, it’s a busy day
I’ve got things on my mind.
For the want of the price of tea and a slice
The old man died.

-Roger Waters

[Nihil]

25. Great words ...

> Forward he cried from the rear
> And the front rank died.
> And the general sat and the lines on the map

and

> For the want of the price of tea and a slice
> The old man died.

So sad yet so true.

(One of my favourite songs. Thanks for posting.)

Nihil

[OhioStateProgressive]

27. thanks:), I am always ready to share the words of Rog(nt)

[tkmorris]

19. If I ever write my own dictionary

I think I'll include that post as a perfect example under the entry "claptrap".

Deer don't know the difference between your garden and natural forage. Protect your garden and let the deer be.

[Elwood P Dowd]

24. Just pointing out

that the deer suddenly took over and destroyed my garden. Me and my neighbor stopped the deer hunting on our properties. Things went fine for a couple of years. Let the deer come and go as they please. Well, they did alright, and they thoroughly enjoyed destroying the garden. They don't come around much anymore.

We're not talking about a 2-acre lot here. I have over 130 acres, and my neighbor has about 300. Neither of us is making any money thanks to the Bushit economy, so the garden is important. I don't have anything against the deer, but they are NOT going to run wild on my land anymore.

The illegals are taking jobs away from Americans and driving down wages. They are out of control like the deer. They are taking food off the tables of American workers. Something needs to be done, and Bushit's solution is not the answer. Goodnight folks.

[ldoolin]

35. Why is that claptrap?

It's a very good example of the "tragedy of the commons". Very relevant to this issue, too.

[rman]

23. you're framing the issue

Assuming this is about popular resentment regarding Bush's cheap-labor legallized illegal immigrants taking a significant number of US jobs at the expense of US workers.

The issue is not with the immigrants, but with certain politicians who first push and then pass the laws that allow for this import of cheap labor.

Similar thing with outsourcing jobs: there's nothing wrong with the people of India or the Chineese, there's somethng wrong with corporations optimizing their efficiency at the expense of US laborers.

People who think so are not anti-immigrant or anti-third world people, rather they are anti-corporatism people.

[_Jumper_]

26. I'm talking about Savage type anti-immigrant people

They attack all non-white immigration.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

28. America would be awfully empty if it wasn't for immigrants

Since even the Native peoples immigrated over the land bridge created during the last Ice Age....

[ldoolin]

37. That wouldn't be so bad...

U.S. population right now: 279,000,000 humans.
U.S. population when I was born: less than 200,000,000.
U.S. population when I will get old - could be 500,000,000 plus if we continue on our current path

Do we really want a country with no Grand Canyon, no Yellowstone, no Great Smoky Mountains, no wilderness areas, because the overpopulation pressure has turned public opinion against preserving parks because too many people wanted to turn them into real estate developments? Or if they still exist as parks, do we want them impossible to get in to because they are so crowded that there is a quota or massive traffic jams?

There is already an absurd quota and waiting list of over a decade to run the Colorado River in the Grand Canyon.

Try spending time in traffic every day, see the sprawl and development eating up former family farms, and try to tell me that the U.S. isn't overpopulated right now.

87% of U.S. population growth is caused by mass immigration.

www.numbersusa.com - send free faxes
www.npg.org - lots of good reading

[cryofan]

29. It's not "anti-immigrant", it "anti-MASS IMMIGRATION". But then...

....you may have already known that. However, most "pro-mass immigration" people just output the standard "pro MASS immigration," "pro CHEAP LABOR", "PRO WORLD-THIRDIZATION of America" memes that they have picked up from the CorpGovMedia propaganda.

I am sometimes wonder if it is worth have a real discussion with "pro-mass immigration" people, as they seem so buried in propaganda that independent thought seems a distant possibility for them.

First of all, whenever immigration has been pushed by the rich and powerful and the wannabe rich and powerful in America, it has ALWAYS been opposed by the majority of Americans and it has always hurt the majority of Americans. Waves of immigration have been caused by the rich and powerful, and the people have always fought to stop them in the past, and they are fighting NOW to stop this one.

Take for example, the importation of slaves to America. That was similar to what is going on now: the rich and powerful wanted cheap labor, and the rest of America hated it, even the Southerners, as they knew it lowered their own wages. That very same wage-lowering effect is going on with respect to mass immigration today.

The rich and powerful fought propaganda wars back then, just as they do now, and now as then, SOME Americans still buy into the propaganda. :hi:

As for what kind of immigrants should be allowed to immigrate, in moderate quantities, if you would take it upon yourself to read the "social democracies" links found in my sig URL, you will see that the rich and powerful have longed used our differences in race and culture to divide us. Diversity is indeed strength, but only for those on top; it is weakness for the rest of us. The more homogeneous we are, the more we can stick together. Now, let me guess, that statement just pushed someone's "you are a Neo-Nazi!" button....

Well, those "pro-mass immigration" people can just stash that "Neo Nazi" routine away for another day, because I am not racially qualified for that little compartment. Yeah, there are a LOT of us non-white and mixed race types in the anti-mass immigration movement. And "pro-mass immigration" people would know that fact, if they would bother to do a little research, instead of just opening wide for the next mouthful of propaganda. :hi:

[Brian Sweat]

30. The decade after my people came over.

FYI, there has always been a strong anti-immigration sentiment in this country. Each new wave of immigrants has been reviled by the previous waves. During the potato famine, no one was more reviled than the Irish.

[guajira]

32. I Went to School in the 50's and Learned About Immigration

in my Social Studies classes. We were taught that in order to immigrate to the US, a person had to be on an approved list, have a sponsor in the US, take a physical and not have a communicable disease, and have a job waiting for them.

The term "illegal immigrant" was unknown to me at that time!

[ldoolin]

33. The specific decade

...was when the overpopulation of the U.S. exceeded the long-term carrying capacity. Respected ecologists like Garrett Hardin, David Pimentel, Lindsey Grant etc. pinpoint that at about the population of the U.S. in the 1940s. We've been overpopulated ever since. The world is also overpopulated, and since population policy is set nationally it has to be dealt with nationally, with each country in the world setting a national goal of negative population growth and without resorting to out-migration as a way of reaching that goal. The U.S. has no obligation to be a safety valve for other countries' population growth problems.

Although I should also point out that reducing or limiting open immigration into the U.S. was traditionally the position of the labor movement, and even, originally, the Socialist Party. This far predates the concern with U.S. and global overpopulation which began a few decades ago. There is nothing "right-wing" about it.

Also please try to use the correct terminology. It's *not* "anti-immigrant", and it's not even "anti-immigration" which is not even the same thing as anti-immigrant. Correct terms are:
Pro-immigration reduction
or
U.S. population stabilization

[durutti]

36. But then they would have to have facts to back up their position.

Don't look for too many coherent responses.

[denverbill]

38. Your thread title is a cheap-shot.

Calling anyone who wants immigration to be controlled 'anti-immigrant' is like calling anyone who opposed the Iraq war 'anti-American'.

I am most definitely for much stricter controls on illegal immigration. If you read any history about America, you will know that immigration has very frequently been the subject of debate in this country, especially during economic downturns. Whether it was the Irish in during the potato famine, the Chinese during the building of the railroads, or Mexican/Latin American immigration today makes no difference.

There are two types of people who oppose immigration. One type is ethnocentric. They hate foreigners cause they are different. The other type opposes immigration because of it's impact on American jobs. Count me in that group.

I'm all for allowing in large numbers of immigrants while jobs in the US are plentiful. It helps the immigrant, it helps control inflation, and overall it helps the economy. That ends when a recession begins. In a recession, we need to take care of our own people before we worry about others.

[nomatrix]

39. Anti-Immigrant or Illegal Aliens?

Evil or Illegal?

Illegal Aliens are criminal as described by federal laws and regulations. Illegal immigrants, undocumented immigrants, migrant workers, and day laborers are all illegal aliens.

The Center for Immigration Studies estimates that the average Mexican illegal alien costs U.S. taxpayers $55,000 each.

California's estimated population of more than 35.5 million people includes some 10 million Mexicans, 70 percent of who are in the state illegally and 65 percent of who have less than a high school education.

Lou Dobbs recently reported that 33 percent of our prison population is now comprised of non-citizens. 36 to 42 percent of illegal aliens are on welfare.

If you live in the West, you know this. Check your real estate taxes.
Look at the school levies. You pay for it.

So is it evil?
or Illegal?

[leodem]

40. As the years grow...

I actually am leading toward putting the military at the border. I agree with previous posts. I have nothing wrong with immigration but illegaly just taking up jobs, driving the popullation up, and so forth.

[knight_of_the_star]

41. How about illegals?

I tend to have issues with THEM, partly because they break the law. And because they sap the resources of our country and take jobs that could go to actually legal citizens and immigrants.