CNN: What is a greater threat to the institution of marriage?

[La_Serpiente]

Divorce or Same Sex Marriages?

http://www.cnn.com/

[devilgrrl]

1. Britany Spears...

nt

[RobertSeattle]

6. Yep - Some smart pundit said something to the effect

Britney Spears can get married while drunk and for 55 hours she and her temp hubby are bestowed every marriage right there is, but a committed adult gay couple for 15 years isn't allowed the same thing - there is a disconnect there.

[blondeatlast]

11. Exactly. That did as much to dishonor marriage as anything could.

Straight, Christian, happily married femme here; it turned my stomach.

I support marriage between any two consenting human adults. Spread the happiness, IMHO!

[maggrwaggr]

27. don't forget Liz Taylor.

Hell, anyone who goes to a vegas wedding chapel.

[RobertSeattle]

40. Hey watch-out!

I was married in a Vegas Chapel! (My wife and I didn't want to go through the whole family wedding route - we eloped)

[Bill McBlueState]

2. the fact that they're asking that question

is a sign they've been paying attention. Good news!

gonna go vote...

[GreenPartyVoter]

3. Divorce

[renegade000]

4. sometime i wonder what people think...

hmmm whats a bigger threat to the institution of marraige?

A. more marraige
B. nullification of marraige

i wonder...

:eyes:

[LWolf]

5. Divorce, 69%

Apparently 69% of respondents have the thinking part of their brain functioning.

[West Coast Democrat]

7. Off-Topic, but I love your avatar

I ALWAYS buy the Thurgood Marshall postage stamps. That looks like the same photo

[La_Serpiente]

8. Why thank you

;-)

[KissMyAsscroft]

9. Marriage is already screwed...

Some people here are not going to like what I have to say, but I believe it to be true...

Marriage is failing because there is nothing in it for guys. There is no incentive for guys to get married. Feminism has made girls feel guilty for taking a traditonal role in families.

-If you are faithful, she takes the kids and half of your money in a divorce anyway.

-Women wanted equality so much that they gave up the whole foundation of what made marriage work in the first place. If they truly wanted equality, they wouldn't accept alimony.

-A lot of American women have been poisoned by the media to have an unrealistic expectation of marriage.

-The sexual revolution meant that you dont have to be married to have sex. "Why buy the cow if you get the milk for free"

-With women and men both working full time, there is no free time for a marriage anymore.


Now before everybody jumps my ass for being sexist, keep in mind that I come from a family with a couple of divorces and looking at what they went through it is a wonder anyone gets married at all. I realize that I am making a generalization but I am a guy and I think I have a pretty good idea of what goes through a guys mind. That and I hear it daily from guys who have been married.

I realize that it is just as often the man's fault, but I think when divorce rates are as high as they are that their has to be a real definable cause....not just "Some guys and some girls are just incompetent"...

Here is a visual aid that puts it in perspective...

http://nomarriage.com/50s.html

Now we are in a period where women have all of this "equality" yet they are still receiving the benefits of alimony? And where has this equality gotten them? A lot of them are miserable, poverty stricken single mothers.

It's like Chris Rock says.."You could do it, but that dont mean its to be done! Hell, you could drive a car with your feet but that dont make it a good freakin idea!"

Now why would any intelligent man consent to having someone control their life, but receive none of the benefits? This is why men fear commitment, not because they dont love their girlfriends.

This isn't the PC answer a lot of women want to hear, but it's what I believe to be the truth.

[Momgonepostal]

10. That post was a joke, right? n/t

[KissMyAsscroft]

17. No it wasnt...

Point out where you think I am wrong...I am open minded on this issue.

[maggrwaggr]

12. other things to consider

Before I married my wife, one night we were having dinner and she had some sort of a fainting spell. It was very strange, and it completely freaked me out. We were with her brothers, and I realized at that point that I had absolutely no rights as to taking care of her, her brothers were her next of kin and I might as well have been the mailman. (her brothers were fine and took care of her by the way)

But I realized that I really wanted what comes with a marriage license, that is the legal rights of a spouse.

Also, she had a daughter from a previous marriage and when the girl started kindergarten, it really bothered me to be referred to as "my mommy's boyfriend". I was way more than that by then.

But I agree with much of what you say. A lot of men don't want to get married because, yes, what's the point for them? Many men get married simply to keep the woman they love happy. Then later they keep trying to make her happy and realize that they CAN'T make her happy, no matter what they do. So then they do whatever the hell they feel like, because, well, the woman's mad at them no matter what they do, so they might as well do whatever the hell they want.

[KissMyAsscroft]

21. Bingo maggrwaggr...

There is a reason many American men are going overseas to find brides. They don't want slaves like women think they do...

They want something more traditional, with the security that it provides.

Men are basically treated like an afterthought in marriage these days.

If you complain about the marriage, you are "not being a man"...if the woman complains, you are being an "a-hole"...

You get married and the sex disappears.

You get divorced and she takes your children and half of your money.

Why would any rational man want to marry? I will tell you why, its because women threaten to leave their boyfriends if they do not.

[maggrwaggr]

23. you're forgetting children

Once there are kids, you want to get married.

At least I, and every other guy I know with kids, have this experience in common.

Kids change everything.

Also: I didn't want to marry a woman unless I thought she'd be a good mother to my kids, and unless I was positive that we wouldn't argue about how to raise them.

My wife already had a kid, so I knew she was a great mom. :)

[KissMyAsscroft]

26. yes, I forgot about that...

If you want to raise children then you should marry the person you have kids with, that is true. Although if she is just going to divorce you and take the kids anyway there may be no point, but I digress...


What I was getting at is marriage has become very unattractive to men, and unless something is changed men will flock overseas to find women who want a more traditonal role. I don't think women realize how men view marriage anymore. Men are wising up to how much of a sham modern day American marriage is.

[Maeve]

30. "women who want a more traditonal role"

Please elaborate. Just what do you think that role for women would be?

[KissMyAsscroft]

32. Someone who takes care of the children...

Someone who doesn't use feminism as a crutch for treating their husbands like garbage while expecting special treatment.

Someone who stays at home and takes care of children instead of being career oriented to the point of it destroying the relationship with the husband.

Someone who doesn't pick up and get a divorce and a lawyer to take the man's money and never let him see his kids.

Someone who sees sex as neccessary to keep the marriage working, and not as a ploy to receive gifts or special treatment.

Yep, some guys still want that.

[Maeve]

35. You're not talking about a role, you're talking about a personality

Personally, I don't know any women who fit the "anti-traditional" mold you are describing--career-oriented to the point of ignoring the kids, users of men, grasping little creatures...altho I have seen them portrayed in 1950's movies. She usually marries some rich old guy who dumped his first wife when she lost her looks.

[KissMyAsscroft]

36. Men who do that are scum...

Those personality traits define her role.

Men who leave their wives who lost their looks were just as rare as women who prayed on men who made more money.

Why do 90% of women still marry up if they truly want equality?

Gee, maybe because they want equality and all of his money too!

Now guys who dump their wives to be with younger women is sort of a payback to women who take all of the man's money. It's a way of saying, "Hey you might have my money, but young girls still want me!" Its childish and stupid, but I think if marriage were still workable that wouldn't happen as much.

My main gripe is alimony. I have yet to hear a woman refuse alimony because she doesn't need it.

I also have yet to hear a right winger refuse a Social Security check he doesn't need either.

[Djinn]

13. except that

married men continue to live longer and healthier than there single or widowed counterparts and yet married women do worse than their single counterparts....mmmmmmmmm

[KissMyAsscroft]

18. What does that have to do with the divorce rate?

nt

[SoCalDem]

14. Lots of people get married for the wrong reasons,

so it's not a huge surprise when they get divorced later..


We have been married 34 years on March 1. Through it we have had each other to weather the storms we have gotten caught up in.. No one ever enters marriage thinking about the bad times, but they do come and they come hard , fast and they can last for years..

If people marry because they get caught up the the fancy reception, the gifts, the sex-anytime-you-want-it (ha!), they re in for a rude awakening..

Marriage is about the fact that I am a slob and my husband is a neatfreak, and yet he does not do much more than tsk-tsk and pick up in my wake..

Marriage is about the fact that I have NO PLACE for MY stuff, but I overlook the fact that my bonus room will be the "roundhouse" for his American Flyer trains, and my car will never see the inside of a garage because he has more tools than Sears Roebuck..

Marriage is about the fact that when I was a basketcase for MONTHS after our first child was born with serious birth defects, HE was the one who held me together, even though it was just as hard for him..

Marriage is about the fact that he always took MY side when his obnoxious mother criticized me..

Marriage is about the fact that now that he has health issues, I never mention the state of the yard, or the million other things he used to be able to do, but now cannot.

Marriage is about the fact that we never did get rich, like we had hoped, but we don't really mind..


anyway..

marriage is about putting someone ahead of yourself, and sharing..bad AND good.. I see so many people getting married because they can't think of anything better to do. Lots go into it with the idea that marrying someone else will "fix" what is wrong with them.. It never does..

as to alimony..that's not the norm anymore, but child support IS.and should be.. It took two parents to make that child, and both should provide for the child..

Lots of friends have had divorces, and as an outsider lookiing in, I cannot say that most of them were any happier afterwards than they were before..

[Serenades]

15. hey

awesome post. i couldn't agree with you more.

[KissMyAsscroft]

19. A couple of points...

Why should a man pay alimony when he never sees his kids?

Also, your husband did a lot for you but all you can come up with that you did for him was that you didnt yell at him? That isn't positive, that is simply refraining from a negative.

I agree with you that marriage should be more rare, but I don't think you addressed the point of my post which is that men don't have much to gain from marriage anymore.

[SoCalDem]

24. Well..since you asked..

I worked and my job provided the family medical insurance for years.. My husband did not like the "corporate" world, and chose to work for small companies that rarely ever gave us medical insurance..

and sometimes "refaining from a negative" IS the positive..

We never had to face the divorced kids issue, but lots of opur friends have, and it's BRUTAL.. to everyone..

If men go into a marriage looking for what the can "gain", they will lose every time :(..

It's not about gain vs loss.. It's about sharing.. The choice one makes in a spouse is the pivotal choice of their lives.. If they choose incorrectly, they will have to be picking up the pieces forever (if they have children)..

Marriage is a support system, and there are no winners or losers.. The idea is for BOTH to get to the finish line together, even if it's hours behind the "winners"..

The only thing that divorced Dads can do is to try to see their kids as often as possible, and unfortunately, that does cost a lot after a divorce, but keep in touch, and somewhere around 13 or 14, those kids will want to be a part of Dad's life..

[KissMyAsscroft]

31. You sound like you have a good marriage...

Basically do away with alimony and that solves the problem. I don't believe your wife is entitled to half of your pay and your retirement benefits. That is unacceptable.

I agree that no one should be looking to gain anything, but they should be careful that they aren't going to lose everything if the marriage fails. The problem with the current system is that it gives women a reason to go into marriage for financial gain.

"The only thing that divorced Dads can do is to try to see their kids as often as possible, and unfortunately, that does cost a lot after a divorce, but keep in touch, and somewhere around 13 or 14, those kids will want to be a part of Dad's life.."

>>That is simply unacceptable. Either let the man have equal time, or don't expect a dime. They need to pay for the children's education, not for you to take your new husband out to that new italian restaurant. That is insanity and is legal robbery as far as Im concerned. (I am not talking about you personally)

Basically, the way I see it right now....Women want equality with none of the responsibility and I dont think that is healthy for society.

Where are the women paying alimony to the man who has custody of the kids? How's that for equality?

[maggrwaggr]

25. you might want to back off, Kiss

another person's marriage is none of your business.

Another person's judgement of their marriage is none of your business either.

:hi:

[Maeve]

22. Good answer!

Marriage isn't the sanest thing most couples do, but if you get it right...it's one of the most fulfilling. (28 years March 21st, four kids, all still at home)

It's building a life together, learning when to lean, when to support and when to just walk side by side. It's being there when you're needed...and being gone when THAT is needed. And it's figuring out that together you can be stronger than either alone. But if you chose the wrong partner, or one of you isn't willing to change (both will or someone will get hurt), then it's not worth the cost of the catering.

Alimony is seldom involved nowadays except when the wife has stayed at home and needs an adjustment period or training for a job. Splitting marital assets is much more of a problem and that's where the celebrity divorces go insane.

[Nikia]

29. What's in it for women?

Personally, I like being married but for sake of your arguement.
There is nothing in it for women anymore. It used to be that women had someone to take care of her financially when she married. Now most married women work and about 25% earn more money than their husbands. Despite this, women continue to be expected to do most of the housework and primarily be responsible for taking care of the children when they are small.
Married men live longer and are healthier while married women don't live as long.
Men also have unrealistic expectations of marriages. They want their wife to be healthy, young, and beautiful forever. They want her to be a sex goddess, a breadwinner, a housekeeper, a babymaker, their best friend, their (insert hobby) partner, their mother, and their nurse.
It's women who are getting the short end of the stick.
Really though, marriage works if people concentrate more on what they can give each other rather than what they can get from each other. Many Americans are too selfish for marriage to work well for them. Jealousy is a bad thing too although spouses should communicate well and honestly address personal insecurities.
I also think that marriage and the nuclear family is overemphasized too much sometimes. A couple needs to have outside interests and friends. Two people being everything for each other is not a realsitic ideal. I would like to note that these statements are not incompatible with monagamy.

[KissMyAsscroft]

34. If that is the case, explain alimony.

That is whats in it for women that isnt there for men.

I am also not against the idea of stay at home dads, but I have yet to see a fathr take the kids and receive alimony payments from a woman.

[Nikia]

38. Sorry, I don't know much about alimony

My mother received child support from my father but not anything else. She didn't receive alimony from her abusive second husband either who made a lot more money than her, but got saddled with his credit card debt.
My female coworker who made twice as much as her minimum wage earning husband was afraid that he'd ask for alimony in the divorce.
I never really looked into divorce law when considering marriage. I want to do better than my parents and stay married.
I don't think that most people consider alimony when deciding to get married.

[KissMyAsscroft]

39. Well, women do....

I hear women talk about alimony all the time like it is their payoff for marrying a "pig man"

Take away the alimony, take away the incentive for women to do that...sounds simple enough to me.

[mac2]

16. Bush

Bush's family values.

[AntiCoup2K4]

20. I hope all the three-times-married Repukes are paying attention.

It's too bad Gingrinch isn't still in Congress. Then they could have worded the poll a little differently....

Who's the bigger threat to marriage? Newt, or his sister?

[ComerPerro]

33. LOL

Great point


And it still applies.

That is the thing alot of people forget. A lot of these right wing assholes who are upset that people are making a mockery of marriage forget that they have been married two or three times in some cases.

[Damn Ann the Man]

28. lol...

It took them this long to ask the question?

[bushalert]

37. Bill Maher on CNBC now

[no_hypocrisy]

41. Greatest threat to marriage: not enough money to support a a family

because of the costs of purchasing a home, purchasing healthcare, saving money for children's college education and one's retirement, and having enough money left over to avoid bill collectors calling at 9:00 in the evening.

Not enough money because all there is low-wage jobs with no benefits, esp. health insurance.

Not enough money is the greatest threat to marriage, not adultery, not divorce, not gay marriage, etc.