Thursday night. My right leg balloons. No medical insurance.

[revcarol]

I am up all night with the pain. But more than that, I am up all night with worry. Worry that I have a blood clot in my leg because I have been a smoker for many years. Worry about cost. Should I go to the clinic or not.Worry that I will have to go into the hospital,no medical insurance. Worry that my dog would then have to be boarded,so expensive.By morning I have almost worried myself into a heart attack.

Morning comes. I find that the other leg is beginning to swell. There is a blizzard outside.I decide to go to the clinic anyway because I can't find the phone number.Luckily still have gas in the car.Leave the dog behind to doo-doo in the house.Have difficulty with the gas pedal. Dirt road not plowed.Now I am really worried. Maybe stuck in the snow unable to help myself because I can barely walk.

Get to the clinic. They're open.See the nurse practitioner. Good news, no blood clot. Bad news: the charge for the prescriptions and the office visit. Even on sliding scale for visit, still costly. PU the prescriptions late afternoon, still blizzard.Medicine full price less 10% senior discount.

Try the medicine for 5 days. It doesn't work. Back to the clinic.Office visit charge. More medicine. Look at budget. It's just been shot down.

THAT WAS THE MONEY I WAS GOING TO USE TO FILL THE PROPANE TANK FOR HEAT.So I cry all the way home.

Recover equilibrium with a cup of green tea. Remember that I still have an uncashed savings bond I can use for part of heat bill.Start thinking about OTHER PEOPLE.

How awful it must be for a child to break his arm and be just above the Medicaid level. How the mother and father of that child would worry, and maybe cry.

How so many of us are all struggling with the same problems. None of us knows that the others are struggling too. How much heartbreak to decide whether to seek treatment or not based on finances.

And how much worry.

And people wonder why so many of us want universal single-payer health care.

[bobbieinok]

1. we're either in your position - or one accident, job loss, unforeseen

expense away

[alcuno]

2. The failure to provide health care for our own citizens is a disgrace.

Model for the rest of the world? I think not. I'm really sorry to hear about your struggle. How we ever created a nation so indifferent to the hardships of her own people is beyond my comprehension.

[Sugarbleus]

40. I completely agree alcuno...and I hear your concern rev..

I was just thinking about healthcare the other day. It dawned on me that since we've never had available/affordable healthcare for everyone in America, there's no wonder why so many folks fall apart before "their time". I remember my own mother and father working their hearts out but never having healthcare. They wouldn't take "charity"..I'm not even sure what was available in those days (50's)in terms of medical.

I do remember me at age 9 having come down with viral pneumonia. It was the heroic act of my parents to treat me at home that saved my life. I remember they found a cheap doc someplace who made ONE house visit when I was really struggling. I remember my folks looking high and low for "cheap" dentists to send me to...$5 a visit plus the supplies. It was a scary place too. Yikes.

Today,having finally qualified for Medicaid, I find myself being treated for things that could have been forestalled with "preventative" healthcare/regular checkups all along the way. I haven't had health care or dental or vision insurance since 1984!!

I worked until the jobs started leaving these shores then the jobs were "temp" jobs; no healthcare. I sold things and charged services every so often to see a dentist or get eyeglasses. I used 'natural foods/supplies' to help with minor medical issues--now they want to curb that supply also!!

My sisters teeth are falling out of her head and her knees are messed up; her husband recently died but his insurance only covered his burial expenses--he was self employed and that was all he could afford. She didn't work the whole time she was caring for him with his acute onset Leukemia! She never worked in any high tech field to begin with so there was never any healthcare for her either. She just told me she went to an Indian reservation to find some help in a clinic there. A person could feasibly afford an "office visit" but the tests and the DRUGS to go with are ASTRONOMICAL.........completely out of bounds for the average person without Healthcare. She and I are furious with this country and it's neglect of it's citizens. We pay taxes but we get so little in return. She and I agree that there should be single payer or free healthcare at least for those without any other source....simply for the fact that IF WE DO PREVENTATIVE HEALTHCARE, we can avoid many of the atrocious diseases and maladies that WILL befall everyone sooner or later. PAY A LITTLE NOW OR PAY A WHOLE LOT LATER.

[whathappened]

3. my heart goes out to you

it is a shame in these times we have to sto and think how we are going to get any help for our health , i to have a list mydoctor has made up for me for test to have done and he is waiting for me to give him to go ahead , but as you i just can't do the test right now cause of no money , it just burns me that all these dead asses in washington who have a great health care for them self can just set on there dead asses and do nothing to help others

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

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[truth2power]

9. .....

"In countries with single payer systems, it's rationed by waiting lists."

Hmmm....I have relatives in Canada. Of advanced age, all of them. One recently deceased after a long bout with cancer. Others have had serious health problems.

I've talked to them about this. No one ever had to wait for treatment more than most in the U.S. (That is, those of us who have the money to be treated at all.)

Every time someone brings up "single-payer" someone raises the waiting list issue. I wonder if it isn't just a diversion.

[Slice]

16. It's not a diversion

I have friends in BC, and they have had to go to hospitals in Seattle before because the waiting lists are so long. In fact, the BC provincial government had to contract with Seattle hospitals because they had such long waits for surgery. So please don't accuse me of doing diversions. I'm telling the truth.

[truth2power]

19. I believe you when you say your friends had to wait.

But I'm also telling the truth. My relative who recently passed away suffered for two years with cancer. In and out of hospitals. Never had to wait when there was a crisis.

Others had surgery (not elective) for serious conditions. Didn't have to wait. I'm not saying that no one EVER has to wait in Canada. But I think the waiting list thing is over rated.

[Misinformed01]

48. The question is this: Wait for What???

I would like to know exactly what they were "waiting" for.

My guess is that it wasn't all that "serious."

"Emergencies" is a seriously relative term; believe me, I was a paramedic.

[Misinformed01]

47. It's a diversion

I worked in EMS for 10+ years...spare me. I know exactly what is available in Canada.

I am sorry if your relatives "had" to go to Seattle hospitals. Do you mind telling us the reason?

What were they "waiting" for that was not available in Canada?

Steph

[blondeatlast]

64. At least health CARE was available to them.

I HAVE health insurance, and have been financially decimted from an illness.

I'm lucky, actually; at least I got treated.

Most people without health insurance in the US never get care, or wait until it's too damn late.

Choosing between NO care and waiting? I'll take the latter, thank you very much.

And if you think it won't work: Medicare isn't perfect, but we're a damn site better off with it than without.

[bread_and_roses]

20. Why, so Insurance companies can keep profiting off our blood?

I believe you when you say you are truely concerned and compassionate, but I also believe you are a buying into propaganda and spin. Read the studies, don't rely on anecdote.

Are there problems in some places with Universal health insurance? No doubt. Are there bigger and worse problems with private-pay? You bet. Don't you think those people who can't get care at all wouldn't rather wait than go without food to pay a Dr. bill? There is no comparison in terms of hardship. And that's EVEN IF there is much truth to "long waits" being common to Nationalized Health Care. As for "goverment programs" or "voucher" believe me, the morass of eligibility regulations etc. make them both expensive to taxpayers and demeaning to recipients. And there are always too many who fall between the cracks. There are places in the US where you can't get Primary Care at all because the cost/profit ratio is not good enough due to low population or poverty. Or what about the nightmarish paperwork engendered by Private pay insurers? Now I'll break my own rule and use anecdote, but my work insurance has been changed so many times (due to costs) that I am no longer sure if I even have the right card in my wallet. And I'm not the only one.

I don't see any reason the Insurance Industry should profit off my body, my illness. Or yours. Or anyone's.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

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[LWolf]

63. Here's how you get it passed.

You vote people into office who will work to do so.

You take health care out of the hands of insurance companies and drug manufacturers, and put it into the hands of physicians.

[Name removed]

81. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LWolf]

89. Hindsight for Clinton:

"While enhanced Medicare for All makes economic sense, it has not made political sense to some, due to the power of the private insurance lobby. My streamlined plan is very different than the 1993 Clinton HMO-based plan, a complex proposal that left big insurance firms in a central role. After President Clinton's 'Managed Competition' plan failed without coming up for a vote, talk-radio host Jim Hightower asked President Clinton why he hadn't put forward a 'simple, straightforward' single-payer plan 'instead of all this bureaucracy.' Clinton replied, 'I thought it would be easier to pass' a bill that left the insurance industry in place. 'I guess I was wrong about that.'

http://www.kucinich.us/issues/universalhealth.php

[Tinoire]

34. Rationed by waiting lists?

In France the physician, excellent physician, came to my sister-in-law's to treat me.

Talk about NO waiting line and efficient service!

Healthcare in the US, rationed out by the rich as if it were gold because they don't want the unprivileged to lose any valuable work time in "waiting lines". The solicitude has always touched me.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

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[Tinoire]

36. Well sounds like you typed that as I was editing my post

but sorry, I don't buy that at all.

With that, we'll just agree to disagree. I'm not in this for the status quo.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

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[Tinoire]

44. It certainly doesn't come across that way n/t

[Name removed]

84. Deleted message

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[cryofan]

38. your studies are bogus and your examples are specious and anecdotal

I suggest that if anyone REALLY wants to find out how the USA healthcare compares to other western countries, just search the internet for examples of ACTUAL PEOPLE who have talked about the healthcare systems of other western countries. Almost ALWAYS they prefer it to the AMerican system.

For example, Canadians, who are of course fairly familiar with the American healthcare system, have been polled regarding which system they would prefer: the Canadian or American system? These polls show that over 90 PERCENT of Canadians prefer the Canadian system to ours.

Of course because there is SO MUCH MONEY at stake in the current ripoff American healthcare system, that healthcare industries lobbies have paid for cooked up, bogus studies to be done. And they also, no doubt, pay for bogus astroturfing lobbying efforts, such as newspaper letters to the editor and internet forum postings.

I notice that you did not mention all the other single payer/socialized healthcare systems of other western countries, almost ALL of which are better than the English system, and most of which are better than the Canadian system.

[FlaGranny]

68. Cryofan, I live in a Flordia community with many Canadian

snowbirds - Florida in the winter, Canada in the summer. I speak with these folks all the time. I ALWAYS ask them about their health care system. Every single person I've asked has nothing but rave reviews about the Canadian system. They absolutely love it. They always mention that you might have to wait a while for nonemergency surgery, but never for a doctor's visit, and never for an emergency. I believe these people. They are my neighbors. I'm very envious of them.

[reprobate]

67. If you want to continue posting here, you must attribute.

That entire post appears to have been lifted in entirety from a right wing publication. To claim it your own is plaigerism. To not attribute it leaves DU open to copywrite suits.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

86. A former colleague was chaperoning students on a trip to England

when one of the students fell and broke her arm.

She took the student into the ER at a London hospital, where she was seen right away at no charge, and while my colleague was sitting and waiting around, she happened to spy a sign that said, "If you require a house call, please ring before 10AM." Her eyes just about popped out of her head, because she hadn't even heard the phrase "house call" in the U.S. since the 1960s. This was about 1990.

More recently, a friend of mine was in a car accident in Costa Rica (Costa Rica!) and was treated at no charge according to medical standards that seemed just fine.

Every report I've ever heard from countries with universal health care tells me that 1) people with emergencies get seen right away, 2) preventive care is much better, so that a lot of conditions don't become serious in the first place, 3) yes there is rationing by waiting period for elective surgery, but here, if you don't have money, your "waiting period" may be the rest of your life.

[Nobody]

59. I'm already waiting. Two years and counting

For those of us without ANY medical insurance, sitting in a waiting room for 45 minutes would be a heavenly improvement.

Have you ever been to the emergency room even now? They don't take you to see a doctor in the order of arrival, it's according to need.

I drove my friend to the emergency room because she nearly sliced off her finger doing yard work, and the wait was 3 hours. She was bleeding all over and nearly in shock, but the guy with the heart attack who came in after we did was served first. So you have to wait. Big F-ing deal. We're like little children, everything has to be NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW!!!

[blondeatlast]

66. The US system isn't working. Period.

Vouchers are BS; why must I have a voucher for a human right and my dignity?

I'll wait if I have to; it's far better than no care at all; I'm an insulin-dependent diabetic and I've learned the system inside and out. I've had to in order to survive.

As long as health care is run by the contemptible greedheads who run it now, and will continue to do so under a voucher system, I'll take my chances with single payer.

BTW, I've been served by the Canadian system in a true emergency. Even as a non-citizen, I was treated immediately and with the utmost care and respect.

There's a story on every side, friend.

[HFishbine]

Your suggestion

does nothing but increase demand. It fails to address the scarcity of supply.

[Flaxbee]

90. Health care should been seen as part of national defense

All administrations since WWII have been so damn excited and ready to spend literally trillions on weaponry and ways to kill other people in order to "protect Americans and provide for the national defense". So, why isn't the government willing to protect its citizens against the spread of disease, lost productivity, etc.? THis country is going to end up full of ill and poorly educated people, "protected" by a battery of multi-million dollar weapons. Boy, glad we have our priorities straight. A sick population is much more detrimental to this country's national health than terrorism or some other boogeyman threat ever will be.

We actually don't live in a world of scarcity, we live in a world of manufactured scarcity. We shift our priorities, and no one would have to wait for a damned thing.

I have many friends who are Canadians but have lived/worked here for a few years, and they would not trade their system for ours in a million years. YOu might have to wait for plastic surgery or some elective procedures, but not for critical or otherwise necessary care.

[SaddenedDem]

5. My Dad's story

50 yrs. old, worked since he was 15. First time in his life without health insurance - wages too low in shit job after layoff from degreed position.

6:00 AM Wakes up for work and can't breath after getting out of the shower.

6:15 Wakes wife asking her to call ambulance.

6:30 Ambulance arrives, drives 4 miles to hospital - $500.00+

One hour in the local emergency room in massive heart failure, oxygen, some meds and moved to a life flight to larger hospital - $12,900.00+ for ER

Life Flight to nearest cardiac center (30 miles) - $6,900.00+

6 days in CICU - $59,000.00+

20 minutes with heart surgeon for stent insert - $3,200.00

Various and asundry other physicians (cardiologist, surgeon, organ specialists) - $5,000.00+

$85,700.00+ - And that was BEFORE open heart surgery and the first surgeon told him to pay cash before the surgery or die.

[tobius]

31. Did they do the surgery? nt

[SaddenedDem]

42. Only after he qualified for medicaid

but yes, a different surgeon from the original and 2 months later.

I have no idea what that bill was because it went directly to the state.

[LWolf]

6. I hear you.

I have a good health plan. I'm thankful. I'm a really healthy person; I've rarely used it. A couple of times when I have needed it, my needs were not "covered," and I had to pay for them anyway. Or go without. Usually, that means going without.

My oldest son has "coverage." It has been a nightmare. He has been fighting them to get treatment for multiple hernias for 3 years now. He is still in pain. He is still not receiving treatment for his coverage.

My youngest son has nothing at all. He is one slip away from putting us all in deep debt. He has been, since birth, the most accident-prone person I have ever met. At 24, he's had more concussions than many pro football players. He bears a variety of scars all over his body. I continue to pray that he's used up his allotment of injury, since there is nothing in his bank or mine to cover any more broken bones, lacerations, concussions, etc.

And I know there are many, many people in worse circumstances.

I want universal health care. I want it now. I want it for all of us.

***my canadian friends tell me they are happy with their health plan and do not experience unreasonable waits for care.

[truth2power]

11. Yes.

You said: "***my canadian friends tell me they are happy with their health plan and do not experience unreasonable waits for care."

See post #9 above.

[SidDithers]

17. My 2 cents...

Waiting lists are more myth than reality. I'm not saying they don't exits - they do - and can be ridiculously long for some things (knee or hip replacements for example). However, we never, and I mean NEVER, are in the situation where we have to choose between seeking treatment and buying propane to heat our house. I'm in Toronto, and I saw how SARS shut us down last year. I shudder to think how an American city would deal with an outbreak like that, if so many people would just ignore their symptoms, because the can't afford to see a doc early.

If we need to see a doctor, we would usually try our family doc first to see if they can squeeze us in. If not, we head to emergency, where you'll have to wait depending upon how serious you need care. If the triage nurse fast tracks you - as in the case of the father of the poster above - you go right in and get immediate care.

Here's our real life example. In August, my wife goes to see her family doc for her annual checkup. The doctor finds a lump in her neck (thyroid) and refers us to get an ultrasound. Results from ultrasound come back in a week, and are inconclusive, so we're referred to a surgeon for a needle biopsy. It takes 2 weeks to see the surgeon, and another week to get the results back, which are again inconclusive. The surgeons decides to remove the half of the thyroid with the lump, and surgery is scheduled for a week later. After surgery (2 nights in hospital), pathology takes a month (a long month, when you're thinking cancer) and confirms our fears, it's thyroid cancer. Surgery is scheduled for the following week to remove the other half of the thyroid (another 2 nights).

Start to finish, from finding the lump, to removing both lobes of the thyroid was about 3 1/2 months. It might have gone faster had we gotten confirmed test results on one of the earlier tests. At the end of the whole process, we received an invoice from the hospital for $40, because we had a phone in my wife's room.

My wife now sees an endocrinologist every 6 months and will be taking thyroid medication for the rest of her life - at about $15 every 3 months for the pills.

There is no way that you could ever justify to me that private health insurance can do a better job of protecting a population than single payer, government run health care.

Sid

[democratreformed]

21. The thing you brought up about SARS is very valid

I can see that happening. People ignoring symptoms b/c they can't go to the doctor. It happens all the time with my family and friends. That is very scary to think about.

[LWolf]

62. I'm so glad your wife

got the treatment she needed!

The SARS issue is a sleeping giant. My whole family, and most of my friends and aquaintances, will not go to a doctor except as a last resort. It's a chunk of work time we can't afford to miss, and after waiting 2 or three hours to actually see the doctor (with an appointment made ahead of time), they simply take your vitals and send you off to another round of offices for blood tests, xrays, or whatever; a separate office, appointment, and waiting line (and office visit fee) for all. Then another appointment with the doctor to put all of the test results together and talk to you about it. It seems set up to discourage people from using it, and many people don't. If they have flu-like symptoms, they keep going and ignore it. Or, if it gets worse, take to their beds and wait for it to go away. And those are people who actually have coverage. Think about how many office visits one diagnosis may take for people who have to pay cash, and it's easy to see why they don't go.

[FlaGranny]

69. That is exactly right on the time course for what the

same diagnosis and treatment would have taken in the US - BUT ONLY IF YOU HAVE INSURANCE. Otherwise, the US patient may have died.

[democratreformed]

7. Here's my healthcare stories

They go back a long way. First, in 1983, I got pregnant with my daughter. Happily, I made my way to my first doctor's appointment. When I arrived, I was directed to the "money lady". She spells it out: It will be $175 today and $175 a month until the baby is born. I just looked at her in shock. She said "Do you not have $175?" I said "Yes ma'am but I have to pay bills with it." Her reply: "Well, if you don't have any money, you might as well go somewhere else." In a daze, I walked back to where my husband was sitting and said "Take me to the health clinic." Off we went. On the way, I started crying. When we arrived, I rushed in and up to the counter. I said "I'm going to have a baby and I don't know what I'm going to do." Quickly, they took me into a back room and explained that there was NO help for a married person. Later, I found a doctor in another town who would accept smaller payments. He wouldn't take me b/c it was my first baby. Eventually, we raked up enough to make that first payment at the first doctor and managed to pay each month. For the hospital bill, we paid $15 per month for many many years.

A few years later, after living in pain for a while, a doctor recommended exploratory surgery for endometriosis. I had insurance this time. Guess what? Some idiot sold it to us and it was no good. Refused to pay on grounds of preexisting conditions. (They had recently changed carriers at my husband's work and the agent filled out the papers like we had never had insurance before.) I'm STILL paying on that one.

About four years ago, we embarked on a new journey - self employment. I tried for a year to get us health insurance. They refused to cover me - I am too fat (some mumbo jumbo about the ratio of my height to my weight). My husband hurt his foot. Had to go the ER. (big baby - lol). They decided he needed a walking boot. I still had an old insurance card and I knew it was no good but I used it anyway (keeps 'em off your back). They decided he needed a walking boot. They didn't have one so they sent us to the other hospital to get one. IT didn't take our insurance (hah hah). We were treated like we were from outer space or something. We were told we had to pay for the thing in advance. It took 'em and hour to figure out how much the damn thing was supposed to cost. They had a lady walk with us everywhere we went like a guard (maybe they thought we were gonna try and steal the stupid thing). Anyway, we paid the $60 they asked for and left. Two months later, I get a bill asking for $240. Seems the stupid walking boot was supposed to be $300. I wrote them a letter and described our treatment. I suggested they get their money from the person that told us how much to pay b/c I was NOT going to pay them another dime. It worked, I guess. I haven't heard anything else from them.

I have many more stories, but I will tell you that I pay monthly payments on all sorts of medical bills. Together, they would make a pretty good house or car payment. AND most of the time (just in the very beginning and for two years after we became self employed), I have NOT been without health insurance. Even with insurance, the bills can be overwhelming - especially when you factor in medicine and other items.

[SoCalDem]

8. My neighbor once called me at 8 pm to ask for $500.00

That was the deposit that they demanded at the ER before they would put a cast on her 4yr old's broken elbow..

She knew that I had the money and I gladly loaned it to her, but she said it broke her heart to see her husband crying because they did not have the money..

He was self employed and they had no medical insurance..

That bill ended up being close to $2,000.00..:(

[SinkingInTheRain]

10. Someone has to ask the question...so I will

How would anything be different under any of the previous admins?
Was there a Gov health program that was taken away in the last three years?

[atre]

12. Clinton tried

The health care lobby, with the help of guys like Bob Dole, stamped out any chance we'd have had.

[democratreformed]

13. Your question was answered in the original post

At least, previously, the healthier economy made it a little easier.

[SinkingInTheRain]

24. Not all previous economies were healthier

The 1976-1980 was pretty bad for me.

[democratreformed]

25. I was a teen then.

Wish I could be one again now.

[truth2power]

14. I don't know what your point is.

People have been raising their voices about health care issues for a long time.

So, because it hasn't happened up until now it should never be considered? Guess I'm confused.

Just my $.02, but it seems that as long as people living under bridges didn't have health care, no one was concerned. Now that the economy is in the toilet and actual MIDDLE CLASS people are being layed off, downsized, and left without insurance--now it's an issue.

[revcarol]

15. No, someone has to ask:

Will anything be different in the next Democratic administration?

How many of us will be uncovered?

How many of us will be unable to afford the deductibles and co-pays of private insurance?

How many of us will be paying monthly payments while waiting for the IRS refund from our " tax credit?"

How do the candidates' plans stack up?

[SoCalDem]

18. Nothing will happen until the "bulge" works its way through the snake

Once the boomers are all dead, health care will probably be a reality..

The time to plan all this was YEARS ago, and sadly nothing was done, and now there are just too many people of an age where they WILL use health care..

The companies that "Own and Operate" healthcare know a loser of a proposition when they see one..

[IconoclastIlene]

22. Dead Boomer's

But first, be sure to invest in "Elder-care Products" lest you miss out on the Geria.tric.com boom!!!

And remember, what those in the know, always do....sell high and sell hard.

McFunerals anyone?

[Kanary]

39. I hope they at least have the grace

to give out "exit pills" for those who are dying in pain and unable to get any treatment or care.

This is clearly what it's coming to.

Kanary

[roguevalley]

23. God, honey. HUGS! Go to the hospital. They have to take you.

[demgrrrll]

28. If you have a need for ongoing medications try the pharma

needymeds.com site. I cannot get this site to link but it is easy to google. Anyone who has no insurance and ongoing med needs should
try and see if they can get their Doctor to fill out the form and get three months worth free. Each company has their own rules and regs but it is worth a try for long term needs.

[Kanary]

29. Yes, and then they hold you for ransom

Have you heard about all the people who are being sued, and even going to jail for these very same hospital charges? Not to mention that those without insurance pay higher charges.

Yes, it's true.

Fine system, eh?

Kanary

[blondeatlast]

65. I have a horror story I won't go into here, but you are right about this.

I'm hoping to tell it soon in DC on behalf of the American Diabetes Association.

I'm also hoping against hope that the ADA will come out in favor of a single payer system.

[area51]

45. Not if you're in Texas, they don't. (n/t)

[revcarol]

27. Topic moved.

Guess I should have mentioned Kucinich's name.

I am depressed because the two front-runners don't seem to offer much.

[HootieMcBoob]

30. I hope you're better soon

We're living in the third world of industrialized nations here. It's horrible. I also don't have any health insurance. It cost me a fortune to go to the doctor when I got the flue in December. Last year I broke my toe and my rib and never went to the doctor at all hoping that they would heal themselves. Luckily they did. I thank God every day that I'm healthy. I worry too about families and older people and children without the money to buy insurance. This is no way to run a country.

[aldian159]

32. My best friend tore his ACL running.

Stepped into a pothole while we were running about May. My blood curls to this day when I remember that scream of pure pain.

Well, that pain was nothing compared to the surgery and rehab he had to go through (and still does) in order to learn how to walk again.

However, that pain was dull compared to the price his family has to pay in order so he can get the rehab needed. His sister and I ended up getting jobs waiting tables-something I enjoy- in order to help pay for it.

Long story short, the family's savings were utterly gone because of this, and both parents had decent, well paying jobs.

America needs help. Now.

[Tinoire]

33. Check your in-box in about 2 minutes. n/t

[camero]

41. I feel for you

I really don't know about all this any more. Seems like everything is surely going to hell in a handbasket.

I've had chest pains for the last 3 days and really can't do anything about it. About to spend the rest of what little savings I had for food and diabetic supplies. I called a charity yesterday about getting some test strips from a program that offered them and the explanation was well this is not a forever thing, apply for disability.

Disability often takes years to get here and when I first got sick I tried and after 1 year was not even through the first step. Went to work for myself in a cab until I went on the shots and quit because I didn't want to endanger anyone else on the road.

I applied for jobs and haven't even been granted an interview. At one place for a county gov't post I took a test and got one of the highest scores in the patch and still wasn't granted an interview.

So, I'm coming to see it like this. Idiot department head who say I shouldn't work there because I am insulin dependent and will make them pay more in health costs. RN (not doctor) at free clinic who says I can work because I'm still walking. My hunch says I can with accomodations that no employers are really obligated to provide because of how the SCOTUS has interpreted the ADA. Work not being a "major life activity". Perfect Catch 22.

So I'm now reduced to the old catchism, "Should I just give up the ghost tonight?". Felt like this for a month now. Oddly I still find the will to eat when my sugar is low.

Yes, it's emotional and not a scientific or some would even say a logical thing, but there comes a time when you just get sick of it all.

I'll leave it at that.

[Tinoire]

43. Aw damn Camero! We're here for you as much as we can be &

Fighting for a decent health-care system.

What test strips are you looking for? PM me. Maybe, just maybe, I can help out.

Hang in there.

:hug:

[camero]

49. This thread just threw me over the edge

This system only knows how to destroy lives not heal them. Quite a few nights in bed lately thinking about this. I don't wanna be a burden. So many good productive lives just going to waste because of this system.

:hug: to you all. :grouphug:

[Tinoire]

50. You my friend

are not a burden.


The road is long
With many a winding turn
That leads us to who knows where
Who knows where
But I'm strong
Strong enough to carry him
He ain't heavy, he's my brother

So on we go

His welfare is of my concern
No burden is he to bear
We'll get there

For I know
He would not encumber me
He ain't heavy, he's my brother

Peace

[Kanary]

51. Nice poem, Tinoire

And it used to give me a nice, warm feeling.

But, no more.

I've come across waaay too many people who make fun of such sentiments. People who are also Dems.

As I said earlier, very few times here when I've posted my circumstances have I heard any warm response anywhere near the sentiments of that poem. Mostly just get told to think about "the greater good".... in other words, I'm so much chopped liver.

Those of us in this situation have very little left to hang on with. We've been successfully beat down, and if it was only coming from the right, we'd still be able to keep slogging on. But, there's enough from the "left" that totally demoralizes us.

Nice poem.

It belongs to a long ago era.

Kanary

[camero]

70. A beautiful poem

And I'm glad to be your friend. :hug:

[grasswire]

52. the only solution I can see here.....

...to the short-term needs (a couple of years hopefully before a Dem in the White House can do something) is expense sharing.

Those of us whose expenses are below our revenue should consider living with one or two like-minded people and sharing the costs of housing and heating and transportation and phone.

Yes, it means giving up some privacy. But the benefits of arranging ourselves into groups for self-preservation could mean survival.

The savings in housing and utilities could buy food, medical supplies, etc.

In some areas, you can rent a 3 BR house for a thousand bucks or less. That's room enough, really, for 4 people. One phone fee, one internet fee if you use broadband and connect your computers on a network hub, one power bill, one cable fee.

We're gonna have to take this step, I think.

[camero]

73. Pretty much have that arrangement

It's a long story and kind of Machiavellian if you know what I mean.
It's part of my anger, the people I have taken care of for years have pretty much turned their backs on me. They have been brainwashed by the RW unfortuneatly. I'll just have to keep plugging away at it.

[Hekate]

55. Don't ever tell a prospective employer about a disability...

...until you have the job offer in hand. Ever.

I could be all wrong, maybe the ADA has been shredded like everything else touched by these bastards -- but you are entitled to "reasonable accomodations" as long as you are able to perform the essential functions of the job. Your personal impact on their insurance policy has no bearing on the case. Your county government interviewer knows better and should be sued blue for making statements like that -- and I know you don't have the energy or the means to do that just now. But if you could gather enough energy to get a consult (free initial consult) with a labor lawyer, and write down your experience and file it with DFEH, some good might come of it.

I'm so sorry. It is a Catch-22, and it is so unjust.

Hekate

[camero]

71. Thanks, I've thought about that

Then I thought it may not be right lying on the applicaton because it is the main reason for my work history the last couple of years.

This is Bush's America. I'm just very angry and frustrated right now.

[outinforce]

72. If I Were You,

I would try to find (perhaps here on DU?) an attorney who would be willing to help you out on a pro-bono basis.

It seems to me you might have three possible cases:

1. Your application for disability. I know this is a long, rather complicated process. But, with legal assistance -- people who know what the law requires and what the law will provide you -- I know some folks who have really come out better.

2. The non-hiring by the country government. You scored highly and were not even interviewed? Could be a case of discrimination based on disability. An attorney might be able to help you out here, too. One thing, though -- there is a time-limit to starting a case of discrimination. You may wish, right now, to contact the Equal Employment Office of the country government that has not yet interviewed you. They may have someone who can help you out and who is also sympathetic to your situation. You may even be able to collect attorney's fees if you prevail in your case.

3. Idiot department head. I think that that department head has given you a perfect case for a suit under the ADA. A desire by an employer to keep his/her health insurance costs down is not an adequate legal reason to deny someone otherwise qualified employment. Again, try to get an attorney to help you out.

Some cities and counties have "legal clinics". If you are near a law school, talk to them, and explain that you are looking for some pro bono legal counsel to fight some cases of discrimination under the ADA.

[camero]

74. Thanks

I got a 96 on the test. 2 wrong out of 60 questions. I've been considering a disablility lawyer for a while now. I think I should do that. I was told by a customer of mine when I was driving the cab that the waiting time is reduced to 3 months with a lawyer.

I kind of have the old up by your bootstraps mentality in my personal life which has kept me from saying anything or going to disability for help.

Thanks for the advice.

[outinforce]

77. Applying for Benefits that You are Entitled to

Remember one thing --

Applying for benefits that you are entitled to is never the same thing as "groveling for charity".

Never.

[camero]

79. I know what you mean

It's just when you go to apply both pretty much treat you the same way. Like a dog. Of course I wouldn't even treat a dog like that. That's Florida for you.

I'm also trying to sell some of my things on Ebay so that may hold me for a little bit.

[Desertrose]

46. aww geez revcarol.....I am really sorry to hear.....

and I can totally relate...I have no healthcare....I just intend on staying very healthy cause I can't afford not to. Neither of my kids have any healthcare either. But like LWolf said...its the accidents & the unexpected illness that can put you over the edge....

Anything less than universal single pay won't help so many of us. I am a self employed artist and barely make above poverty ( if that- talk about starving artists!) I can't afford co pay or buying insurance.

I am fortunate that in my town we have a lot of alternative healers that have helped me stay as healthy as I am. No one should ever ever have to choose between heat or medical care. It just makes me so furious the way the medical/pharmaceutical corporations have taken over healthcare & turned it into a for profit (BIG profit) business. My father and grandfather were pharmacists -owned a small town drugstore- soda fountain & all...when my Dad retired ('77)he was so disgusted the way it was becoming so impersonal & regulated and all about the profit instead of the customer.....

revcarol....I hope you are getting straightened out.....check your inbox....:)

:loveya:
DR

[grasswire]

53. note:

I saw a suggestion the other day for a way to get medical coverage for a year or so. Take out a student loan and enroll part time at a university or community college. Not only do many of them have clinics on campus, but also health insurance. Just a thought.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

88. That USED to be possible in Minnesota

I did it in the early 1980s when I was working temp. I took one night course per term at the University of Minnesota and signed up for student health. It actually came in handy when I had a suspected ulcer (false alarm, but I needed tests.)

However, I looked into this again upon moving back to Minnesota, but you now have to be enrolled in a degree program to qualify. :-(

I guess too many people had caught on to this trick.

[Krakowiak]

54. Another with no health coverage

I have a variety of problems that I've put off addressing for 2 years now, only to watch them grow worse with nothing to be done about it. I worry night and day about what would happen if I were to fall victim to something serious in need of immediate attention. I'm sorry to hear about your situation, and will keep you in my thoughts.

[REP]

56. Sounds Like Venous Stasis

There's no treatment, other than diuretics, which are fairly cheap. Support stockings can help, but they need to be full length (hip to toe). Be careful not to cut or scratch the affected leg; it can forfuckingever to heal and even develop cellulitis in people with compromised immune systems. Avoid standing for long periods or sitting with the leg hanging down; both can aggravate the swelling.

I currently take something like 15 prescriptions a day for diseases that will someday kill me - which will be sooner than later if I lose my health coverage. As a person without children, I am ineligible for may of my state's programs.

[Hekate]

57. Remember how Hillary was pilloried by the RW congress...

...when she tried to introduce the Clinton health care plan? Man, that was ugly. If she and Bill had been able to get it through a decade ago, we might not be having this conversation now.

I have nothing against health care providers making a decent living, and I have nothing against pharmaceutical producers making a fair profit. But the operative words here are "decent" and "fair."

MDs are being driven out of certain specialties by ballooning malpractice insurance -- my OB-GYN no longer does obstetrics at all because of personal risk, and she's far from alone. The insurance companies need to be reined in all across the board. Meanwhile, local hospitals are being bought, consolidated, shut down, and starved for funding so that they have to ration care or go under.

Drug manufacturers who cry the blues about their high R&D costs get no sympathy from me: I would truly like to know what percentage of that is underwritten by you and me via our tax money, which goes to scientists and labs in universitites and companies all over the country.

The comments about "boomers" in this thread are apt: I'm one myself and I swear I wonder if the insurance corporations would just like us all to quietly drop dead at some time of their choosing.

We can afford single-payer health care for the nation. We are already paying for it, just not receiving the goods.

Hekate

[RapidCreek]

58. Man I am so sorry to hear this

NT

RC

[KayLaw]

60. Question about Canada

Do any Canadian politicians make issue of health care? Meaning do they say, " Support me and we'll scrap what we have now and adopt the systems Americans have?"

[SidDithers]

61. None that want to get elected...nt

Sid

[KayLaw]

76. Thanks

That's what I thought.

[tom_paine]

75. I'm so sorry to hear that, revcarol

Have you tried a government agency or perhaps a charity?

Apply for food stamps?

I don't know, I'm just throwing out ideas here.

And yes, Imperial Amerika is an ugly place and getting uglier all the time.

Good luck to you.

[FlaGranny]

82. Government agencies and charities

are NO help if you earn any money at all. Went through that years ago with a niece and then again with my father. You have to be destitute and have nothing to get help. It also helps some if you are not married (because a second income, even if only Social Security)will put you over the income limits. At one point, my parent's were considering divorce after 50 years of marriage in order to qualify to get financial help for him. If you work for a living and manage to keep a roof over your head, you are making too much money for assistance. PERIOD. It's a SICK, SICK system.

Edit typo

[revcarol]

78. It's not as if I didn't try to keep insurance.I already spent a fortune.

I tried to COBRA my insurance after my church closed. It seems that NON-PROFITS (like churches) are not under the COBRA federal law. So I could only COBRA my insurance under the laws of the state that the insurance was under: SIX months, instead of 18 months.

So at the end of the six months, I was offered a choice of that company's private plans. I could have hospitalization, med tests and doctors, no pharmas unless hospitalized for $4000 A QUARTER

or I could have hospitalization, doctors during the hospitalization, med tests during the hospitalization, no pharma except during the hospitalization, for $2000 PER QUARTER.

YOWCH!!

So I called the company, explaining that I had only been hospitalized once in over 40 years except for the birth of my children, and that the most serious oupatient problem I had had was a terrible bout of the flu.So WHY on earth was I being offered plans at THESE rates?

Turns out that they only offer continuing medical to a former client AT THE HIGHEST RATES, regardless of medical history.

On the phone again. Called every TV ad, company that sent literature through the mail,called the state insurance commissioner to see if they could DO this and get other companies and HMO's that might insure me...Used up my phone card, trying to find something else...

Turns out that this is perfectly legal to charge the highest rates on individual policies regardless of medical history, and that companies have the option of whether they will consider medical history or not. And no one would offer me a better policy.HMO's didn't cover rural areas. I would have had to go 225 miles to see a doctor!!

So I took three quarters of the $2000 policy($actually $1996). Hospitalization only, just to keep from going into bankruptcy if I did have to be hospitalized. Now $6000 later, and unable to afford the next $2000, I realize that I was probably foolish to spend the $6000, but I did what I thought was best at the time.

I thank all of you for your kind words and offers of assistance.My heart is just breaking for all the others in the same boat. I am doing better now, but even MORE PISSED that we aren't doing anything about the SYSTEM.The leading cause of bankruptcies is medical expense. WE ARE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER, FOLKS.

"Ask not for whom the bell tolls,
it tolls for thee."

DENNIS KUCINICH, WE NEED YOU.

[camero]

80. It's rediculous

When I called about insurance while I was driving the cab they said noone would insure me and tried to sell me life insurance. Go figure.

[OKNancy]

83. The thing is..back in the old days, you could

actually probably pay for most treatments even if you didn't have insurance.

My story, had a back operation and the insurance didn't cover it, yes, pre-existing condition. I paid off the hospital and doctor a little bit every month. The total was $3,000.

In 2004 the same operation is $56,000.

[KayLaw]

85. So true

There was a time I felt medical insurance was unnecessary. I just shrugged it off. A doctor visit was only $20 and when I have my oldest son, it was $400 for the doctor and $400 for the hospital. I guess it's still low in some places.

The man who built part of our house met a woman from Russia on the internet, fell in love, and went over to meet and marry her. He developed a tooth problem while he was there and a dentist offered to fix it for diddly squat - well under $50. He decided to wait till he got back to the states and kicked himself because his doctor wanted over $500.

[shrike]

87. I remember those days

My dad was self-employed and he and my mom raised six kids on a major medical policy. We simply paid cash every time one of us had to go to the doctor or dentist.