Husband, Wife, Family: Words rooted in oppression?

[David__77]

I think that in light of the emerging debate over marriage equality it's interesting to look at the historical roots of the words traditionally associated with marriage.

The historical roots of words to not totally define what they mean today, but they shouldn't be ignored; language is very nuanced and words contain significance beyond their standard definition.

The English word "family" is derived from the Latin word "famulus," which is defined as "serving, servile /a servant, slave." In ancient Rome, the famulus was "a man's total collection of wives, children, servants and slaves, and he exercised the power of life and death over them all."

Although "wife" originally meant simply "woman," in the past couples hundred years if was particularly used in the context of servitude: "fishwife," "midwife," and the most famous servant of all--the "housewife."

"Husband" has unequivocally patriarchal, male supremacist roots. It is derived Old Norse word husbondi which means "master of the house." "Husband" is still associated in the English language with management and control though terms like "animal husbandry."

When the right-wingers are talking about "6,000 years of tradition," the question must be asked: "What sort of tradition are you defending?" Is it the one of familial slavery, in which few chose their spouse and the woman lived in the service of the man? Or should we instead be fighting for the very, very modern and untraditional notion that one should be partnered--married--to the person of one's choice on the basis of mutual love? It is only this new conception that can salvage the word "family" from its historical roots in oppression.

Reference Links:

http://www.bartleby.com/61/70/F0027000.html (Family)
http://www.takeourword.com/et_t-z.html (Wife)
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=husband (Husband)
http://www.asiteforthelord.com/sys-tmpl/rmr/ (Husband)

[maggrwaggr]

1. interesting but ...

it's this kind of intellectual navel-pondering that turned many against the left.

You can't tell an average person that a word such as "husband" or "wife" is has roots in opression. They will just laugh in your face.

[DemBones DemBones]

2. Very true. I'm just hoping the

backlash doesn't give us four more years of Bush. I fear he would be much meaner in a second term, knowing he never had to be re-elected. I know there is talk about Jeb running next, but Dubya may not care whether his little brother is elected or not.

[Arianrhod]

4. I don't argue with "average" people anymore

for just such reasons as that. I will not stifle my understanding of the world simply because I think someone is going to take it the wrong way.

If a voter turns to * simply because s/he doesn't like my definition of "husband", then there was never any hope there, anyway.

[maggrwaggr]

5. my point is that it's interesting to us, but nobody else

It's the sort of PC thought-policing that right-wingers dream of.

[Arianrhod]

7. The RW gets away with that kind of strategy

only because we let them.

[maggrwaggr]

10. all words have connotations

you can't change the language of any culture to be 100% politically correct. Nobody would have any idea what the fuck you were talking about, capiche? (I added those words for humor, not to be an asshole).

Hm, asshole. Fuck. Capiche? What are the true meanings of these words?

I'm a white guy. Oops, maybe I should have said "caucasian". Or "northern european American". But wait. Isn't "American" oppressive? Seeing as how it was part of the americas discovered by colonialists bent on occupation, genocide, and exploitation?

Perhaps I should call it "the land mass between the Atlantic and Pacific north of the equator but in the temperate zone"

It gets silly pretty quickly.

[Arianrhod]

15. There are no "true meanings of words",

simply because language is constantly evolving.

But that doesn't mean there aren't traditional meanings of words.

Language is culture-driven, the ultimate expression of self-absorption.

Still, I tend to adhere to the traditional meanings. And that necessarily implies that I study the etymologies and understand where the terms come from.

I fully embrace etymological evolution. As a humble example, while "boss" was a term of admiration and excitement in my day (1967, the Summer of Love), I acknowledge that today it merely means "guy in charge", and have no contentions against that usage. But for me, "boss" will always have connotations of coolness, of hipness, of cutting edge. The 1970 Ford Mustang Mach 1 Boss will remain a f*ing cool machine, even though I prefer the vehicle I drove, the 1965 289cu Mustang 2+2 fastback, the Mustang di tuti Mustangs. And of course, Bruce Springsteen will always be The Boss ad infinitum.

For my part, I abhor political correctness. It's the ultimate in self-absorbed narcissism, and I reject anything that promotes the illusion that calls itself "ego". I therefore don't give a rat's ass about what the current language signifies, insofar as others don't have a clue. And I further don't give a shit what others think I mean. I mean what I mean. If they can't follow, then that's their childhood trauma.

[private_ryan]

23. traditional meanings of words.

why not look at how people getting married view this instead of how the Romans did it 2000 years ago? Now some guys would argue that they become the slaves :)

[Arianrhod]

24. Hm. That last paragraph is rather ... odd.

Ok. From now on, no more posting while working on divorce paperwork....

[donsu]

19. I'm very interested - words are powerful

this is not navel gazing, this is reality.

we women will fight not to be servile again. count on it.

[efhmc]

3. Well. as a Feminist, I could write a 1000 words essay easily on this

subject, but I will give you a small example of the use of the word "wife". When my husband and I bought our 2nd home (I wasn't at the first closing because I had a one week old baby), the papers that were presented to me said my husband's name (completely written out) and then the words, "and wife" with my name. I went ballistic and asked that they either delete "and wife" or add "and husband" to my spouse's name. Blah, blah, blah, only legalese, words, doesn't mean anything, etc., blah, blah, blah. Didn't budge and since my husband had known me for a very long time and I was getting my purse and coat and preparing to leave the building, he mentioned that they might want to delete those words (which were repeated every time our names were on the document)and we would then be able to proceed. Otherwise, they would not have a sale. They crossed out all the "and wife" and we signed the documents. It may seem like small potatoes. but to me it reflected my place in society as an underling to a man and that just was not going to happen. By the way this was in 1996. I am not now, nor have I ever been an "and wife". (This was in a community property state so my name had to be on the document.)

[camero]

6. Gotta figure

Since most of the English language comes from Latin and Norse languages and the stereotypes back then that these words would come into being. What I'm wondering is what the unit was called in the time before written language. I don't think it was really the caveman drag the woman by the hair totally.

[Thtwudbeme]

8. Oh good God

I LOVE the fact that I am Michael's wife.

I adore my husband.

We are a family.

Somehow, I just don't feel the oppression.

Am I missing something here?

Stephanie
"Getting ready to be a 40 year old BITCH, and lovin' it. You want feminism? Baby, you got it."

[Arianrhod]

9. Yet millions of women do.

Those are the ones I'm concerned with.

[opihimoimoi]

11. It just goes to show how close to Ignorance we live

Its right around the time corner.

What am I saying?? They surround us.

[private_ryan]

20. funny how most women feel the same way that you do

n/t

[seventhson]

12. Liberte. Egalite, Fraternite vs Patria, Familia, Travaille

Remember what the Nazis did to the French when they conquered her :

As the country's motto on their coins, etc. in 1940 they replaced the national expression:

"Liberty, Equality and Fraternity"

with the phrase:

"Fatherlamd, Family and Work"

(Sound familiar?)



"Arbeit Macht Frie" (Sign at entrance to Auschwitz death labor camp) - "Work makes you free" - Little did they (do we) know!

(SPELLING/TRANSLATION CORRECTIONS WELCOME)

[ThorsteinVeblen]

14. The work ethic is not all bad

Just ask Gandhi. Egoless pride in one's work can be the path to salvation.

[Arianrhod]

17. Provided that work is the dharma for that individual.

The Protestant work ethic is based more on a contempt for idleness than it is on a joy of accomplishment. Genuine salvation comes solely through the loss of ego and self; having pride in any activity is an indication that the ego still reigns. Non-attachment is selflessness; and selflessness might be described as the total unawareness that one has acted at all. If one takes pride in action, then one has not achieved dharma.

And not everyone is destined for work. Siddhartha did none whatsoever.

[Arianrhod]

18. How about

"Kueche, Kinder, Kirche"=="Kitchen, Children, Church"? The traditional German woman's place.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[philosophie_en_rose]

16. Ah, that fictional Hawaii place.

The land of unicorns and fairies. :eyes:

There have been many matriarchal societies in the history of the world.

People that are concerned about the use of language and choose to advocate for their dignity and autonomy (feminists) are not, in any way, silly.

That doesn't mean that anyone that uses these words has an abusive or oppressive relationship. The meanings of those words can be wonderful - "I love my husband." - or terrible - "I can't stand my ex-husband." Context.

[muriel_volestrangler]

21. your references show that husband and wife are neutral

and not at all oppressive - since "husband" ultimately means "house dweller", and "wife" means "woman". The only person a midwife may be a servant to is the expectant mother (the mid means "with", so does it mean "someone with a woman", or "a woman with someone"?), and fishwives are women who prepare or sell fish - straightforward. With the same derivation, I don't think you can claim "housewife" as a servant either, without some definite proof (eg a quote like "shes is a housewife becauase she is his servant") - it can just as easily be "woman in charge of a house".

All you are doing with these two words is associating them with later social conditions.

Where does your quote about ancient Rome and famulus come from? I think to say that a man had power of life and death over his wife and children is exaggeration (and servants too, I should think; slaves sounds slightly more likely, but I don't think he could kill them on a whim).

Since the social conditions are the important thing, you're better off working to change them rather than worrying about what words meant, and connotations they had, a few hundred years ago.

[private_ryan]

22. actually I think he's right on the head of household

it was the oldest male and he was the boss. However, I doubt that when someoen gets married now does it to become a slave or whatever, regardless of what the word or arrangment meant 3 billion years ago.