Has your position on the death penalty changed over time?

[prolesunited]

What is your position on the death penalty? Has it changed over time? If so, how?

Footnote: A tip of the hat to Robb for the poll idea.

[lcordero]

1. I support a death penalty for white collar supercriminals

since they do more harm to common people in ten minutes than any common street thug can ever do in their lifetime.

[plaguepuppy]

2. I'll drink to that!

Death: can't live with it, can't live without it!

:toast:

[bluestateguy]

4. YES!

I endorse your position! White collar crime should be a death penalty offense. Still, the system in Texas is fatally flawed and there must be a moritorium.

[AndyP]

33. Love the shirt

Feingold is the man!!

[prolesunited]

3. I would be interested in hearing

from the person who once opposed it and now support it. I'm curious about what changed your mind.

[FlaGranny]

19. That's me - I once supported it.

The reason I do not any more is that I've gotten smart enough over the years to learn that there are innocent people convicted of crimes. Now, I would still support the death penalty if it could be absolutely PROVEN that no innocent person would be convicted and the death penalty was reserved for the worst cases AND if it were done in a way that rich and poor got the same justice. I may have to wait until the end of time for that, so I no longer support the death penalty, although I have no doubts it is justified in many cases.

[Lisa0825]

5. other....I have alwasy supported it, but now do to a lesser extent....

the cicumstances under which I will support it are much more limited now than they were previously, but I still think it should be available for certain crimes.

[prolesunited]

6. Could you explain your position further?

How have the circumstances in which it should be use changed? In what cases should it be available?

[wtf]

8. ..

I used to support it before I became informed about issues such as people being on death row who had lawyers who fell asleep in the court room, the fact that people on death row are disproportionally poor and black, the fact that so many people who were on death row have been exonerated through DNA testing, and then just coming to the realization of what a dangerous precedent it is to give the sate the power to execute its citizens.

The changing of my view on capital punishment is a great example of how information really is the most powerful tool anyone has, and it shows the importance of always standing up and fighting for what you believe in and getting your voice heard. People say that with issues such as this that discussion/arguments are futile because people will never be swayed, but I'm living proof that that isn't the case, so keep up the good fight!

[blondeatlast]

17. See post #15, my friend's father was Latino and had a pathetic PD

for a lawyer.

One thing many don't realize is that lawyers with no experience usually start out at the PD's office. After they get enough COURTROOM EXPERIENCE, they look for better jobs.

Like those in the city, county, state prosecutor's office; which almost invariably pay more and carry far more prestige...

[prolesunited]

22. Your answer echoes

my evolution in my thought process. I also find in utterly unconscionable that we also allow the execution of juveniles as well as the mentally retarded.

BTW, welcome to DU, wtf. :hi: I find myself using that expression quite a bit these days.

[gula]

38. agree

;)

[Lisa0825]

10. had a few drinks tonight, so sorry if I don't explain it well........

I don't necessarily believe that it is always wrong to take a life as a punishment for a crime. But the longer I have thought about it and read about it, the more I have opened up to the problems of racial inequities in defense (and the justice system in general), and other flaws. So basically, i still believe that some crimes, heinous enough, and with strong enough evidence, or perhaps multiple convictons for heinous crimes, should still have the death penalty as an option.

For instance... I would never want someone to be falsely convicted of a first instance of murder and executed, only to be found (after the execution) innocent. But serial killers convicted of multiple crimes and found mentally competent ..... well, I wouldn't say I'd oppose their execution.... bottom line... I think my opinion is evolving over time, though I don't know if I will ever think death should never be an option... I do think it should be reserved only for a very select type of case.

For the record, I live in Texas... and George Bush is one of the main reasons I have rethought my position.... the number of executions in this state over the years is just horrendous.... and the media frenzies... sickening.

[prolesunited]

23. Frankly

I think the terms "serial killer" and "mentally competent" are mutually exclusive. If these people were truly right in the head, they wouldn't be serial killers.

I know many people think the death penalty should be invoked in the most serious cases, but to what end. At that point, doesn't it become a matter of revenge, not justice. It certainly doesn't serve as a deterrent.

I was at the point you are a couple of years ago. It wasn't until more recently that I became totally opposed to it. To me there is no greater suffering than to be trapped in your own mind with your actions. There also is no greater justice than to come to a realization of the horror of what you have done and be forced to live with it.

Think of Tim McVeigh. He wanted to die and believed it would make him a martyr. If we wanted to punish him, we would have kept him alive.

Perhaps part of it is that I'm an atheist. I believe when these people die, they are not receiving God's justice in hell. Rather, it is nothingness and they are relieved of there burden. Conversely, if they are innocent, they are not transported to some magical heaven that will make everything OK. Dead is just dead. I don't think the state should be responsible for that.

[union_maid]

7. Always opposed it

Still do.

[HawkerHurricane]

9. My position on the death penalty...

There are crimes that are so awful, no lesser punishment will do.

There are people so awful, that fear of thier escape is so great that no other penalty is enough.

That being said...

I think the death penalty is being used too often in the United States today. Better for a hundred guilty to go free than one innocent executed.

[Lisa0825]

11. I agree

[MinnFats]

12. It is barbarism.

When they strap that soul into the chair, or the gas chamber, or the guerney, or put the rope around that neck of some helpless person, it is murder. sanctioned by the state, but murder nonetheless.

there are so many reasons to eliminate it from our system of justice. all of us know...mostof them.

Now, while other states are backing away or calling moratoria, my own state has begun consideration of reinstating the death penalty. This is at the behest of our new GOP Gov., Tim Pawlenty, who is proving to be more rigid and hard--right than most imagined.

There are bills in the Mn. Senate and H of R....one backed by the wonderful Rep. Arlon Lindner, whom you may remember:

A.) Ssid that gay people made up stories of Nazi persecution solely to gain sympathy for gay rights (and went on to make a bunch of crazily anti-gay comments)
B.) During a heated debate on the floor of the House with a Jewish state rep, demanded that his adversary not thrust his "anti=Christ" outlook on him.
3.) Refused to attend a speech to the Legislature by the Dalai Lama, whom he said was the head of an "anti-Christ cult."


But I digress....if my state starts making plans to kill inmates, I will be with those out there at Stillwater or Oak Park Heights raising holy hell to stop it.
(this is not to minimize the suffering of survivors or the evil done by those who commit heinous crimes.)

[ArwenJade]

13. I've always been for it

But only if there is absolute proof and only under certain circumstances, like the murder of a child or someone helpless, or a serial killer or a particularly gruesome killing.
I think that imprisonment can be worse than death for some people.

[blondeatlast]

16. Welcome to DU!

:toast:

[arewethereyet]

32. you make a very interesting point

when you say that imprisonment can be worse than death. Its true of course and because it is it invalidates the notion of capital punishment as "revenge". It becomes the humane option at that point.

[Charlls]

14. I dont support the death penalty but i support assisted suicide

which includes imprisoned people

[blondeatlast]

15. I once supported it. Then I went to school and became friends

with a girl whose father was on death row.

[prolesunited]

25. I would like to hear

more about that. What were the circumstances? How did it impact her? Was he finally executed? Were you still friends with her at that time?

[hang a left]

18. I have been against it, as far back as I can remember.

The cause of death on the death certificates of executed inmates is "homicide".

It just never made sense to me to kill someone that has murdered someone else. I never bought the argument that it is a deterrent.

There are some crimes that absolutely horrify me. Such as violent crimes against children. Those people at times, I feel I could kill myself. Many times I have wished that the perpetrators of those crimes could be left alone in a room with the family members of the child for a while and let the family decide.

But that is an emotional knee-jerk reaction. Maybe I would change my mind if I had the experience personally. I don't know. That is one side of the debate.

The other side has already been brought up here on this thread. Corrupt cops and prosecuters, incompetent defense lawyers employed by the very counties that want the convictions. The racial disparity. The exonerations of people by DNA. The whole system is effed up. Just one more example of corruption that runs rampant in our country. Freedom and Justice for All......yeah right, what a joke.

[anti-NAFTA]

20. I oppose the death penalty,

but I support euthanasia and government funded abortions for people who can't support a family.

[Az]

21. Support of the death penalty means giving others permission to kill you

The exists to protect the innocent. One day you may find yourself falsely accused of a capital crime. Which society would you rather live in? One that allows emotions to demand the death of someone or one that realises that it is impossible to achieve the absolute certainty necissary to issue the ultimate penalty. There is no chance to say oops after you execute someone.

[prolesunited]

27. As with many situations in life

I'm sure people are convinced that it NEVER will happen to them or those they love.

[slackmaster]

24. It seemed reasonable until my mid-teens

About the time I figured out that people aren't anywhere near as smart or as wise as they believe themselves to be.

[VOX]

26. Have always opposed it, and that feeling has grown over time...

State-sanctioned killing is wrong, period.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

28. Other

it hasn't changed -- I've always been glad that I didn't need to take a position on the issue.

[MrSlayer]

29. Nope, I've always been for it.

And, again, I'm in favor of expanding it.

[Robb]

30. This may sound a little silly

...But from a strictly utilitarian perspective, state-sponsored execution is practically a non-issue. Cardiovascular disease claims a half million lives in the U.S. every year, as an example, and makes no distinction between the guilty and the innocent.

[mb7588a]

31. It used to be so clear...

An eye for an eye - death for killing.

But then with DNA and other new technologies... it became clear that our justice system just isn't perfect enough to have death as a punishment.

[foreigncorrespondent]

34. It most certainly has.

I had always been in two minds about the death penalty. I am happy I live in a country where we abolished it.

Ronald Joseph Ryan was the last person hung in Australia at the infamous Pentridge Prison here in Melbourne. The crime which brought about the death penatly for Ronald, he was actually innocent of.

Still, I was in two minds about it. What was tearing me apart was the fact that if a person took the life of someone close to me I would want revenge on that person, their life for the life they stole from someone I loved. But after a few long chats about this subject with Sapphocrat (who is an avid supporter of removing the death penalty all together in the U.S.) I have actually changed my position.

Now I am so against government sanctioned murder, it isn't funny. This is the 21st century, and things really do need to change.

[democratreformed]

35. Any of you ever heard of The West Memphis Three?

That is what changed my opinion on the death penalty. It is a case from Arkansas where three teenagers were convicted of killing three 8 yr old boys. They were convicted on very little and very shaky evidence. Of course, it is one of those cases where many do not agree. But, when I think of "beyond a shadow of a doubt", my opinion is that this case definitely does not measure up. Only one of the older boys is on death row.

I barely remember the case from when it actually happened. I think I was about 16. I remember how the media portrayed Damien Echols. Even I thought he looked evil based on what I saw in the media. A few years ago, I happened onto a small article about the case. From there, I found numerous websites and message boards.

I never really formed an opinion on whether or not I believed fully in the boys' guilt or innocence but I definitely don't believe there was enough evidence to call it "beyond a shadow of a doubt". I read in on book on the case that the jury were given instructions that did away with that requirement.

Anyway, I changed my opinion on the death penalty b/c I believe that there may be many innocent people on death row. I also disagree with the execution of children and the mentally ill. But, I also believe that there are some truly evil people in this world who are NOT mentally ill. I understand that it might be better to let them live with their misery (if they would ever actually have any), but I do not disagree with the death penalty for these people when there is absolutely no doubt about their guilt (video, DNA, etc.)

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

36. No, I have always opposed it. NT

[Lori Price CLG]

37. Where is the option, only for those who are convicted of treason....

and W-ar crimes? The *real* terrorists behind the 9-11 attacks, who are based on U.S. soil, if you get my drift...

-Lori Price

[nickgutierrez]

39. Wait, something isn't right...

How can this be a Robb-related poll without the "Robb is a dingbat" option? :D

I once supported the death penalty in extreme cases, but once I realized that it would cost taxpayers about as much to kill the criminal as to keep him in jail for life, I abandoned the idea.

[prolesunited]

40. Quite true

and a fact many don't realize.

Here's two links of interest:

DEATH PENALTY: IS THE PRICE OF JUSTICE TOO HIGH?
December 14, 2003 -BARTOW - Life, as the old saying goes, is priceless. But death, administered by lethal injection or in the electric chair, costs big bucks.

While law-and-order politicians and prosecutors have argued for years that no price can be put on justice, shrinking revenues are forcing states to re-examine whether the billions of dollars spent annually on the death penalty is worthwhile. On a local level, prosecuting death-penalty cases can wreak havoc on county budgets. A single death-penalty case can bankrupt a smaller county, force county leaders to raise taxes, cut services or both.

Death-penalty cases impact larger counties, such as Polk, less significantly. But with the county unable to continue funding its indigent care program and struggling to pay for other services, the hundreds of thousands of dollars it spends annually on the death penalty can become significant.

http://www.ncadp.org/news_headline_12_16_2003_price.html


Capital Punishment costs more than life without parole:

Various state governments estimate that a single death penalty case, from the point of arrest to execution, ranges from $1 million to $3 million per case.
Other studies have estimated the cost to be as high as $7 million.
Cases resulting in life imprisonment average around $500,000 each, including incarceration cost.

http://www.ncadp.org/fact_sheet3.html

[Frodo]

42. Something to consider on the "cost" issue.

I've seen those types of estimates dozens of times. But they always seem to leave on one critical part of the financial equation (not that this should be entirely, or even primarily, about finances):

What about all of the thousands of people who have accepted life without parole as a plea bargain to avoid the death penalty?

Without the DP option, NOBODY would plea bargain those cases any more. Or worse, prosecutors would end up giving murderers something LESS than "life without parole" in exchange for a guilt plea.

[Ronnie]

41. I change my mind about this...

...all the time. There have been days when I change my POV two or three times.