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nostamj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 08:18 PM
Original message
*, the PULL 'rumor,' Helen Thomas and Snotty McC...
Edited on Sun Feb-22-04 08:22 PM by nostamj
don't we already KNOW where bush was during those missing months in 1972?

why does Helen Thomas allow Snotty to dismiss it as rumor?
why doesn't the WH press corp support Helen?

in Keven Phillips' AMERICAN DYNASTY (p88), bush's participation in PULL in 1972 is stated as fact. whether it was a deal to clear bush of a cocaine conviction is qualified by the criminal conviction which destroyed Hatfield's credibility.

but, has anyone challenged this:
The possible exception...lay in the unsubstantiated rumor that in late 1972 at age 26, George W. had been arrested in Houston for possession of cocaine. At his father's request, a judge supposedly agreed to expunge the court record, provided young Bush did volunteer community service at a local youth project.

The job, in fact, did happen. He worked at a community center for a number of months

This is in a book by a republican.

Why is there any question about where he was during those missing months?

Why doesn't Helen read the passage to Snotty and ask for a response. It's NOT a rumor.

If Phillips is LYING, why is * and the WH not responding? Why hasn't a single * enabler pointed to the lie.

We know where he was.

We need to know WHY.
We need to know WHY the investment in training him was 'blown off' without consequences.
We need to know WHY he was able to dodge a required physical.

We need to know WHY the WH press corp is continuing to allow this issue to be dismissed as 'rumor'.

Either challenge Phillips' lie, or admit it's no RUMOR!
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rfranklin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 08:23 PM
Response to Original message
1. The key words are "unsubstantiated rumor"
That is what enables the WH to keep saying they won't respond to rumors.
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nostamj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. but but but
Edited on Sun Feb-22-04 08:31 PM by nostamj
Helen NEVER referred to the cocaine bust, ONLY the working at the center.

he could say: yes I did. I helped those people. I'm a compassionate person. I hug the mothers you know. I pile the food higher on the family pie of the shutins.

Snotty was NOT asked about cocaine or a judicial dodge, he was asked whether he worked at the center. Phillips is confirming he did without confirm the cocaine 'rumor'

that's my point

on edit: just formatting
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indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-04 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #1
27. Even were all the "unsubstantiated rumors" proven beyond any doubt,
the faithful flock would not wander for to the brain-washed, the brain-dead, their man is carrying out God's work, God's mission.
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 08:28 PM
Response to Original message
3. Gee, if he was doing community service, you'd think he'd be highlighting
this in his resume. Wouldn't that be a nice thing- to show your commitment to public service? aaai suppose if it was a sentenencing requirement that puts a whole different perspective on it, though.
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Kazak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. You mean if it *wasn't* community sevice,...
voluntary rather.

I think.
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-04 03:36 AM
Response to Reply #5
25. Informal Diversion Plan
http://www.realchange.org/bushjr.htm#cocaine
Bush Jr.'s Skeleton Closet
(snip)
COCAINE:
According to a new book, three independent sources close to the Bush family report that Governor Bush was arrested in 1972 for cocaine possession, and taken to Harris County Jail, but avoided jail or formal charges through an informal diversion plan involving community service with Project P.U.L.L., an inner city Houston program for troubled youths at the Martin Luther King Jr. Community Center in Houston's dirt-poor Third Ward. (In another new book, reporter Bill Minutaglio, writes that the year of community service was arranged by the Governor's father, ex-president Bush, after he caught Bush Jr. driving drunk.)

That year certainly is out of character with the rest of Bush Jr.'s life. Before and after 1972, he was a rich, hard drinking playboy. Suddenly, and only that one time in his life, he worked for a liberal charity in an inner city ghetto. As soon as the year was over, he resumed his previous pattern and has done no charity work since.
(snip)
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nostamj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-04 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. a bit misleading...
the "new book" referenced is Hatfield's FORTUNATE SON. hardly 'new' and (fairly or not) discredited.

still nothing explains the WH denial of the 'service' ???
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boobooday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 08:36 PM
Response to Original message
4. Yes, why doesn't he refer back to it?
His experience with the underprivileged?

You'd think, since it is apparently the only time he got near actual needy people, that he'd be plugging his "honorable" community service!

http://www.wgoeshome.com

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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. in bush's autobiography
and that is exactly what he said it was, i am a good guy you know see did charity in PULL
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nostamj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. i didn't know it was in the fake autobio

that's all the more reason that Helen should NOT let them get away with calling it a RUMOR!

HELEN, go in with the autobiography and challenge Snotty to deny it!

WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. If it was in the fake autobio...
then why are they denying it? Are they saying that the autobio that they wrote a book with false facts?
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nostamj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. well, it DOES explain why they couldn't challenge
Phillips for putting it in HIS book.

they are SO desperate to HIDE 1972 you just KNOW it's really dirty.
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T Bone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. Truth be known, he probably didn't show for the community service
either. Daddy Warbucks probably just made a huge donation to the organization so they would sign off on his 'hours'.
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DoctorMyEyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
8. Helen asked
if he was "ordered by a court" to do community service. We all know he worked at PULL, and we all know that it isn't the kind of thing he would do on his own - what we can't confirm - yet - is whether it was court ordered.

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nostamj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. OK. here's the transcript
and while I agree that Helen *mentions* 'court-ordered' once, Scotty denies the "rumor" of community service even though it is part of the 'official' autobiography...

Q: Did the President ever have to take time off from Guard duty to do community service?

Scott McClellan: To do community service? I haven't looked into everything he did 30 years ago, Helen. Obviously, there is different community service he has performed in the past, including going back to that time period --

Q: Can you find out if he actually had --

Scott McClellan: Helen, I don't think we remember every single activity he was involved in 30 years ago.

Q: No, this isn't an activity. Was he forced to do community service at any time while he was on --

Scott McClellan: What's your interest in that question? I'm sorry, I just --

Q: Lots of rumors. I'm just trying to clear up something.

Scott McClellan: Rumors about what?

Q: Pardon?

Scott McClellan: Rumors about what?

Q: About the President having to do community service while he was in the National Guard, take time out for that.

Scott McClellan: I'm not aware of those rumors
. But if you want to --
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DoctorMyEyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. You're right
She only mentioned "court ordered" once. She also said "forced" so I think I mentally equated it.

Rumor or not, who the hell is Scotty to ask (repeatedly) WHY someone wants an answer to a question.

I e-mailed Helen Thomas to thank her for sticking to her guns and encouraged her to not let it go. She wrote me back - (I really didn't expect that) - I have a LOT of respect for her.

Someone said there's a line in the book "All the President's Men" where a Washington Post editor said "If they don't call you fucking liar - you're onto something!"

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nostamj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. oh, Helen usually responds
i've had a few myself!

and tomorrow I am going to ask her why she hasn't used to campaign autobiography to swat his 'rumor' BS aside.

and, FWIW, I had forgotten the mention of 'court ordered' when I wrote the intial post.

and, I do admit it weakens my point, but only a bit. only a bit.
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
9. WHY would someone who had made a commitment to

military service, even if it was part-time military service, just abandon the whole thing to a) work on a campaign, and b) work for a good cause -- the only charity work he's ever done in his life?

WHY did the military allow this?

WHY doesn't Dubya tout his connections to black Texans he met through his work at PULL? He can't tout his Alabama Guard connections because nobody ever saw him there, because he was in Houston working at PULL (and perhaps under court order not to leave the state???)

WHY didn't the press investigate in 2000?

(Never mind answering that last one, I know the answer there. The others are worth answering, though.)
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Petrodollar Warfare Donating Member (628 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 11:18 PM
Response to Original message
14. GW Bush's community service was in Houston's 3rd Ward....
Edited on Sun Feb-22-04 11:54 PM by GoreN4
...which is generally regarded as one of the worst areas of Houston (if not the worst). Hard to imagine a rich white guy working in that area, but I do believe the "rumor" of his cocaine bust was the reason for both his community service in the summer of 72', and the reason why he did not take his military medical exam in 72', which resulted in him being grounded. The military had recently introduced drug testing, and GW Bush was probably not interested submitting a urine test for his physical... Of course the media has not and will not ever give proper reporting to the poor behavior and shady busniess dealings of the past 3 generations of the Bushes... From 1945 to 2004, as the Phillips book shows, they have an impressive history of being somewhat of untouchable elitest/high-powered crime family.
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nostamj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. so I keep asking
if the community service is a FACT (included in the official autobiography) why would McC not say so--with no comment of WHY he did the service....
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Petrodollar Warfare Donating Member (628 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. They claim the community service was for drunk driving...
...but I doubt that. They may be related, perhaps both incidents happened together....


(FYI I meant 3rd Ward, not 5th. Anyhow, here's some info that you might find useful...read the article for an interesting reaction...)

Book: Bush was arrested for cocaine in 1972
Texas author J.H. Hatfield claims the Republican front-runner did community service at a Houston center.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/1999/10/18/cocaine/

Oct. 18, 1999 | A new book by Texas author J.H. Hatfield claims that George W. Bush was arrested for cocaine possession in 1972, but had his record expunged with help from his family's political connections. In an afterword to his book "Fortunate Son: George W. Bush and the Making of an American President" (St. Martin's), Hatfield says he took a second look at the Bush cocaine allegations after a story in Salon reporting allegations that Bush did community service for the crime at the Martin Luther King Jr. Community Center in Houston's Third Ward.


....By contrast, "First Son: George W. Bush and the Family Dynasty," by Dallas Morning News reporter Bill Minutaglio, says George Bush Sr. referred his son to Project P.U.L.L. after an incident in which George W. drove drunk with his younger brother Marvin in the car.

But Hatfield quotes "a high-ranking advisor to Bush" who confirmed that Bush was arrested for cocaine possession in Houston in 1972, and had the record expunged by a judge who was "a fellow Republican and elected official" who helped Bush get off "with a little community service at a minority youth center instead of having to pick cotton on a Texas prison farm."

Hatfield quotes a former Yale classmate who told him: "George W. was arrested for possession of cocaine in 1972, but due to his father's connections, the entire record was expunged by a state judge whom the older Bush helped get elected. It was one of those 'behind closed doors in the judges' chambers' kind of thing between the old man and one of his Texas cronies who owed him a favor ... There's only a handful of us that know the truth."
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Petrodollar Warfare Donating Member (628 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #15
22. Yes, his community service is a fact btw...
Edited on Sun Feb-22-04 11:55 PM by GoreN4
..and this is really old news for anyone that knows Bush's shady history, but the media monoplogies won't give it any airtime. Here's a DU article from 2002...right down the memory hole of the US media in 2000...and perhaps in 2004 as well.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/articles/02/04/09_volunteers.html

"Volunteering time in the service of our fellow human beings is a good and worthy cause and is to be applauded but what may have seemed as a disconnect to those who have followed Bush's life history closely was what was strikingly absent from Dubya's call to action: an account of his own year of service at an inner city center for youths at risk in Houston. One would think that the president would have touted his own charitable efforts as an example of his selfless resolve to help the less fortunate. It is in the nature of a politician's constitution to loudly trumpet their accomplishments in an effort to appear more worthy of office, so it may at first seem odd that Bush would not broadcast his own altruistic efforts in the ghettos of Houston. This would seem especially true when it involved working with minorities, a valuable voting bloc that he has doggedly courted, except when his brother was busy disenfranchising them during elections. On examination of his history, it appears that the reason for his reticence to play up his charitable works may be the same as his reluctance to use his service record with the Texas National Guard to encourage enlistment into the armed services. Both of these eras in his past would not simple open a can of worms so much as open an entire dumpster full of the slimy little creatures


...In the 1970's Bush uncharacteristically volunteered to work at the P.U.L.L center in Houston an antipoverty charity program where his father was an honorary chairman. This was the first time the Dubya had ever demonstrated any 'compassionate conservatism' towards the less fortunate. Up until that time, Bush was known as the quintessential frat boy, devoted to partying and chasing skirts. There were the rumors of alcoholism, drugs, lost weekends in Mexico, dancing nude on bars and an endless parade of fast women. Working with black and Hispanic children did not exactly seem to be something that he was inclined to do by nature. After his stint at this job, Bush never again volunteered to help the needy and it appears that he quickly resumed his lifestyle as a hard core playboy.

According to the book, 'Fortunate Son; George W Bush and the Making of an American President', by J.H. Hatfield, this unusual digression in his life's history may have not really been volunteerism after all. According to Hatfield's sources, George W. Bush may have been busted for cocaine and a sympathetic judge prevailed upon to expunge the record with the stipulation that he would perform community service. This allegation is not new and has also been raised by other news sources such as the online 'Salon' but it merits reexamination after America's new war and Bush's appeal for a nation of volunteers. One of Hatfield's sources who he claim's was a former Yale classmate and a family friend who partied with the future president in the late '60's and early '70s in Houston, is quoted as saying "George W. was arrested for possession of cocaine in 1972, but due to his father's connections, the entire record was expunged by a state judge who the elder Bush helped get elected". This source then went on to say, "It was on of those 'behind closed doors in the judge's chambers' kind of thing between the old man and one of his Texas cronies who owed him a favor. In exchange for successfully completing community service at Project P.U.L.L., where Bush senior was a heavy contributor and honorary chairman, the judge purged George W.'s record."

...When the book, 'Fortunate Son' was about to be released, a tremendous effort was made on behalf on the Bush campaign to suppress the book. Lawsuits were threatened and eventually the publisher offered to turn the book into 'furnace fodder'. While never directly addressing the substance of Hatfield's charges, they attacked the author in the press, releasing arrest records revealing the author's imprisonment for a murder conspiracy (never mind that his is irrelevant to whether the book is factual or not) and ultimately succeeded in besmirching the writer. Despite subsequent lawsuits and political pressure, the book has now been released by a new publisher, Soft Skull Press. Readers may decide for themselves whether there is any credibility to these allegations."



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nostamj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-04 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. this just reinforces it

I've believed for YEARS that the 'community service' story was gospel. and that it what frustrates me about Helen (and her colleagues) allowing it to be dismissed as rumor.

I expect that for the cocaine and even the drunk driving, but the 'community service' is not (or should NOT be) in question.

why didn't Snotty simply cut Helen off with:

Helen, this president's record of community service was detailed in his book, A Challange To Keep, prior to his election.

And on to the next question. something's just WRONG about that exchange.
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DoctorMyEyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-04 01:27 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. I think because she did ask
if it was "ordered". Scotty could have used the "official" story - that poppy made him for driving drunk and running over their trash cans - but, at this stage they probably don't even want to talk about that.

Remember - Bush *starred* in an anti-drug commercial for the TANG fresh out of his pilot classes. Even if daddy wasn't a congressman, a drug arrest would have been an embarassment for the Guard, too. That could have helped smooth the way towards letting him complete his community service instead of attending his drills.

You did see on Bush's suspension from flying papers that James Bath was also suspended for not taking his physical in 1972 too? Did they get busted together?
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TomNickell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-04 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #22
28. Unfortunately, Hatfill's credibility -was- shot.....
It is necessary to disentangle Hatfill's charges from other sources and see where that leaves us.
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nostamj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-04 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #22
29. i agree that Hatfield is toxic
but, irrelevant.

people are looking for *-sightings in Alabama while there's proof (inc. his own campaign bio) that states he was in Houston doing 'community service' in '72

why isn't this part of the AWOL story?

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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. Who were the judges during that time period
and what was their political persuasion?

Would it have to be a judge in Houston that would had ordered community service in Houston? Or could the judge be from a different state?
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nostamj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. the 'rumor' has been that it was a BFEE "friend"
of Poppy. of course.
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-04 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #19
31. How about James Baker III?
It appears that gw*s first job was in 1962 with a law firm Baker, Botts, Shepherd and Coates in Houston TX.
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Petrodollar Warfare Donating Member (628 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. The judge would have been in Harris county -Texas
Edited on Mon Feb-23-04 12:02 AM by GoreN4
....and if we had real journalism, a reporter could probably narrow down the judges who handled such cases in Houston. The judge could be dead by now, and it does not appear that the arresting Houston police officer has any intentions of coming forward. However, what would be more interesting is to confrim how many hours of community service GW did in the 3rd ward. That would probably lead to serious questions....
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-04 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #20
30. But couldn't a judge order community service to be serve anywhere?
In another county... in a different state?
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catmandu57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-04 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. His PULL service sounds like his ANG service
nobody has come foreword to speak for young george*, to tell of all the wonderful things he did for the po folk back in 1972. Poppy probablly bought off his community time, and when you come right down to it, it probablly was the thing to do. I mean who could stand being around that smug bastard for any length of time.
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