tin foil time: the pentagon climate report is a distractionary tactic

[ursacorwin]

hey all, i'm feeling extra foily this morning...so here goes:

first off: i'm the very first person in line to get people to be serious about the environment. david brin convinced me a long time ago that we're f*cked, and in my lifetime. i in no way disagree with the basic premises of the report.

that said: kremlinology is hard these days, isn't it? timing is *everthing* with these people, and we all can see the internecine warfare going on within the cabal. i just heard kristol (pnac co-founder) give a talk last week, and it's clear that some rethug folks are really pissed at rummy and the whole direction of the iraq mess.

so i think the war has always been about money. chenron and bechtel and all the sycophantic corporations milking the american public to the tune of 87$B a quarter is quite a game, especially when you mix in all the other pro-rich policies of the shrub administration. control oil is just an added bonus, but for the chenron group i think short term profit is the #1 priority.

now, that being said, i'm sure that there is a connection between this debacle and others our gov't and military have led us into. like for example, star wars. we all know they can't make it work, but they just keep repackaging it over and over and we throw billions at it for nothing.

so- the war is going bad, and rummy is taking it from a lot of different sides. he'll get osama in time for some election bounce, but from the internal perspective he's basically the man most responsible for iraq. let's say he's realized that the iraqis are about to erupt in civil war and really make things bloody, and chickenhawk that he is he's looking to get out while the gettin's good (of course we'll keep troops and bases for a long time, but that's not my focus here). the media will play along, and shift to the "new terror" threat...whatever that may be.

and so presto! now we have this really, really SCARY story- from the pentagon no less!- that the earth is doomed! in 20 years no less! oh my freaking god what are we going to do??? why, create a whole new agenda, replete with spending, emergency laws and procedures, and the further enrichment of some key industries and contractors who will "fix" all our environmental problems for just a few trillion dollars.

i could go on, but i think you get my drift. read a bit about the author of the study and his track record of predicting other situations at the following link. i know, a conservative source, but the nation is in there as well.

http://www.prospect.org/webfeatures/2001/02/vest-j-02-15.html

[pink_poodle]

1. Yeah, wassup with this that they should suddenly care...........

when people have been worried about this for quite a while now (I remember awareness rising at then end of the 70's)??????

[ursacorwin]

2. it's the tone that worries me most

the dire predictions, britian in an ice age, etc. this kind of language is akin to the nuclear option: if it doesn't bring major policy than they've shot their wad in terms of credibility. if it does, well that's the argument i made above.

remember: terror war or environmental disaster about both conditions where the martial law FEMA clauses get invoked.

[pink_poodle]

3. Oh I see exactly where your thoughts are going with this one..............

I am with you on this for sure. Control of the masses everywhere, not just the good old US of A. I've always wondered though that if there was a global crisis, would there be widespread anarchy? Would people finally wake up and realize how mis-managed our countries are by the politicians and that we're really screwed? Would the people finally get their acts together and take control of their own lives and destinies. I think not. I think it would be dog-eat-dog and mass chaos. There would be ransacking, crimes, deaths, violence and panic. If we have a "sudden climate change catastrophe" then there will be mass panic. On a global scale.

Over the years, I have noticed big changes but in particular within the past 4-5 years. I am a gardener. I talk to other gardeners who are also noticing changes. Changes that are visible now.

[pink_poodle]

4. And as for FEMA, well yes they would start locking down cities..........

and containing populations, but for how long could they actually hold this control? I think they could do it for a while but eventually people would panic and chaos would reign.

[ursacorwin]

7. it's hard to talk about this as it's really 2 issues

i agree with your scenario concerning real global catastrophe: die off, loss of control, chaos. it's anyone's guess what will eventually happen, and i'm a big scifi reader and have seen dozens of scenarios ranging from the not so bad to the truly horrible. a lot depends on just how much of the damage we can undo, and if any group rises up with the will to do that.

but my question relate more to the immediate future. not that they couldn't have selective memory and forget this report ever came out, but let's say they don't. where are they going with this in the next 3-5 years? assuming bush steals the election again. what does rummy want to get from a report like this, especially after the OSP and other pro-rummy insiders have been made to look so foolish on the whole WMD claim?

is this the next boondoggle for the shrub cabal? have they decided americans are "tired" of the WOT? it's all about marketing, didn't scooter or someone say that? my question is about if this scare is the new "product."

[jus_the_facts]

5. ramifications of pollution is far from tin foil hat....

...one papermill produces billions of tons of toxins every year and puts it into the atmosphere....multiply that by the thousands of mills around the world....and that's only papermills...you can add to that...oil refineries.....cars...and every other combustable engine on the planet....this activity is the equivilent of thousands of vocanos erupting into the atmosphere...then we can talk about the mountains of garbage we bury...the refuse from our industrial cattle farms....the list goes on and on....all the while the population continues to soar at an astronomical rate compounding the problem.....this enviornmental threat is as real as it gets....the earth cannot sustain our level of population and consumption....do the math.
http://www2.ucsusa.org/global_security/index.cfm

[charlie]

9. The point isn't that the scenario is tinfoillery...

The military has contingency plans for all kinds of far-fetched scenarios (wasn't there a todo a few months back about plans to invade Sweden?). So, you've gotta ask, as ursacorwin does, why was this particular report leaked? Especially with an administration that thinks global warming isn't happening sitting across the river from the Pentagon. Bushco rains troughs of bullshit on our heads, day in day out, so it's impossible to judge the veracity or intent of anything that comes out of Washington.

[jus_the_facts]

13. that's why I gave a source that is being deemed conspiracy theory....

.....by this administration...to show how they're distorting the facts to placate their interests....they're capable of anything...

http://www2.ucsusa.org/global_security/index.cfm

[CaptainClark23]

6. False flag op

They need a cover for peak oil.
Direct attention away from the keystone issue.
Blame the environment.

Start to impose stricter restrictions on fossil fuel consumption in an effot to "save the planet", when the truth of the matter is that the fossil fuels are dwindling.

Fossil fuels are the keys to the kingdom. They do not want to relinquish control of the keys. If they were to come out and tell the truth about peak oil, the keys would be taken out of their hands right quick.

But if they can "save the world" by imposing even greater control over fossil fuels - its use and distribution, they truly become Masters of the World..until, of course, it all turns critical. Maybe they're betting on being able to move to mars by then?

ON EDIT: Not to say of course, that global warming isn't a real and valid threat to civilization as we define it now. I do believe however that peak oil will reach critical stage, and have a greater impact on humanity as a whole well before global warming.

[jus_the_facts]

10. remains to be seen...here's a ton of evidence that says the threat is real

http://www2.ucsusa.org/global_security/index.cfm

[CaptainClark23]

11. quite real

"Not to say of course, that global warming isn't a real and valid threat to civilization as we define it now."


just a matter of which demon will grab us by the balls first....

[jus_the_facts]

14. exactly...they won't be able to divert attention away from it forever.....

....the proof is happening all around us....increase in cancer rates...mad cow...avian flu...crop manipulation..destruction of the coasts..extreme weather anomalies....and on and on....we are the demons who've consumed our planet beyond it's limits....we're all to blame.

[pink_poodle]

8. Money. Keeping themselves in business. Keeping themselves..........

in the glory. That's what it's all about to these people. They don't actually care about the people and starvation, death of animals, fish and birds. But it's about budgets, funding, profit, giving contracts to their own companies and friends. Keeping themselves and who they know rich and safe.

In order to do that, it's about controlling people and getting their money and labour.

[Nederland]

12. Agreed

The report is nothing more than a cheap stunt to make genuine climate change concerns look extreme. If you take a look at the UN reports on climate change, for example, nothing even close to this extreme is being predicted. In fact, the IPCC predicts that nothing notable will happen by 2020. I'd be willing to bet that this report was published so that in 2020 the right wing can point to it and say: "See, look at all the kooks that told us the world was going to end. You still want to believe them?"

[opihimoimoi]

15. How to Prevent Mega Famine 101

Should there be...... oh fuck it......

too much to ask.......

[Nederland]

16. Mega Famine? (nt)

[opihimoimoi]

17. Numbers cannot be denied.

Almost 7 Billion of us Humans on this Planet, Resources plummeting/

Population out of control, soon to be 9 billion and in 15 years 12 billion. You can only raise so much guppies in a given tank. This planet can accomodate only so much before the protein/nurishments becomes a negative.

Instead of finding ways to peace, stability, sustainability, we elect a war president.

Thus we are not addressing the near future except in an exploitive manner. Forget Kyoto, etc. Our Nation has its head up its ass. Our collective minds are still very much on Level One, ie Meism. Because we seek the easy way out, we forego the hard work Peace requires.

Thus this Homo Sapien Species has long odds to get anywhere for the LOOOOONG TERM.

We are almost masochistic in that we seem in love with pain and misery.

[Nederland]

18. Question

And this has exactly nothing to do with climate change.