Nader will more than likely have an effect

[Camaro]

I know Nader is going to get my vote if Kerry wins the bid and it looks like he is going to. My main issue is still Iraq and there is no way I am voting for Kerry who voted to give Bush free reign with the military in Iraq. I know many of you see it as wasting a vote and helping Bush but Kerry may as well join the repukes as far as I am concerned. I am still not sure how the dems have been tricked into voting for Kerry.

[WoodrowFan]

1. sheesh

Anybody who can't tell the difference between Kerry and Bush in terms of vote-worthiness isn't paying attention to naything but their navel.

feel free to call me names, the naderites are quickly filling my 'ignore' list.

[Camaro]

2. Yeah I know Kerry and Bush are much different

I know there are huge differences between Kerry and Bush, and yes Kerry would be 3094820394830298430298 times better than Bush. I can still not get over the Iraq issue with Kerry so he will not be getting my vote. (That is if he wins the bid)

[Goldmund]

6. So somebody breaks into your house.

You are against owning guns and have sworn to never use one. An acquantance had accidentally left a gun right next to your bed. The intruder points a gun at you. You:

a) stand your ground on principle and don't use the gun that is available to you to defend yourself. You are shot and killed by the intruder; or
b) realize that the extraordinary situation requires extraordinary measures and use the gun your acquaintance left to defend yourself.

Myself, I'm against gun ownership, and have never held a gun in my life. But I'd pick b) in this situation.

You realize that Kerry would be 3094820394830298430298 times better than Bush, and yet you claim you're going to do your part to enable to multiply the condition of the country by 1/3094820394830298430298 just so you can look in the mirror and tell your friends that you stood your ground on your principles.

Where's pragmatism in all this? Once your prinicples lead you to suicidal measures, they clearly have malfunctioned. The only purpose of principles is to help you lead a better life and help those around you attain a better life. You are doing neither.

[Camaro]

13. I am surving a purpose

I am sending a message to the Democratic leadership that they need to stick to the issues important to the party members. The way I am sending this message is by voting for another candidate.

[Goldmund]

17. That's funny

Assuming your "sending a message" schtick is valid in the first place, you're sending a message that overthrowing Bush isn't an issue "important to the party members".

And you're also sending that same message to Republicans as well. And the world.

[Zero Gravitas]

23. Bullshit.

You mental masturbators are not sending any message other than you'd rather have Bush as president than Kerry.

[pmbryant]

3. Sounds like you wouldn't vote Kerry or Edwards even if Nader didn't run

If so, then Nader's candidacy didn't have any effect, at least in your case.

I think the same can be said for the general voting public at large.

--Peter

[Camaro]

4. True

I do not think I would have voted for either of them :(

I thought the Iraq war was going to be an issue with many of the dems but it is not looking that way. Guess they are looking past that and focusing on other issues while Bush gets the blood of more of our soldiers on his hands.

[aquart]

12. You can capitalize Iraq but not Dem. Interesting.

And you say "they" instead of "we."

Well, WE can't stop the war till George is gone.

Funny how you don't get that.

[hexola]

18. The war is an issue...but....

It's an issue that I think most (even Republicans) have already made up their minds on...The war as a mistake and even the Republicans know it. They won't go as far as campaining against Bush...but they will quietly vote for someone else...

I wonder if Kerry's war vote will be brought up?...how can the Republicans attack Kerry for being for the Bush war?

Remember - the planes that hit the WTC took off from Boston, MA...Kerry would be betraying his constituency by voting against the war. If anybody had to vote for it - it was Kerry!

To the disappointed DEMs - tell yourself this:

Kerry was duped by BushCo's lame intelligence into voting for the war...

[disenfranchised]

5. Why do you think the dems were tricked to vote for Kerry?

[Camaro]

8. How else could thay have voted for Kerry?

"To Authorize The Use Of United States Armed Forces Against Iraq"

Senate vote 237 on 10/11/02

Kerry voted Yes

[aquart]

7. Welcome to DU. Why are you here?

You clearly aren't a Democrat.

But come again. It will be fun to see you equate BushCo's fascism with Kerry's record.

[Camaro]

9. Well I am a dem

I have been here a while and yes I am a democrat but if the party keeps going the way they are I may not be one for much longer :(

[lovedems]

10. Well that's really good.

Go ahead and hold Kerry responsible for his IWR vote but if the chimp gets 4 more years, how many more countries do you think we will invade? Iraq and Afghanistan will be the first of several. The war mongering and war profiteering WILL NOT GO AWAY as long as the chimp retains power.

If people are sick of war and pre-emption as a foreign policy, holding Kerry responsible for his IWR vote seems ridiculous because a constant state of war is what we will have for the next 4 years.

Go ahead and support Nader, it is your right to vote how you please but don't bitch when we spend the next 4 years giving the rest of the world MORE reasons to hate us rather then trying to correct the problems we have caused for the last 3 years.

[MidwestTransplant]

11. Earth to Camaro

Dean supported Biden/Lugar.

[havocmom]

14. Everybody seems to agree that bush* lied about the threat Iraq posed

so why not accept that senators didn't get accurate info prior to that vote? They voted on info they had. Yes, they acted too quickly and they should be accountable for that. How can we chide the malAdministration for lying and then punish people for falling for the lie? That shifts the blame to the ears which heard instead of the lips which lied. You can't make allies like that.

We must allow for people to change their minds when presented with new/different information, otherwise we just fight the same battle over and over with no progress. Allow for progress!

How about this: we strongly suggest to our reps in DC that they hold the malAdministrations feet to the fire about lying to them and to the US public as a means to invade a sovereign nation? Then we hold the senators responsible if they do not punish the malAdministration for such heinous acts. Now they know there were lies. Now they know better and should clean house. If they don't, go ahead and replace them.

[Camaro]

15. You bring up a good point

The more I think about it, I would probabaly be better off voting for Kerry. WHEN Kerry wins I will use my 1st amendment right to let him know that he better fix the mistake he helped create. Sure he may have had some bad info but if he believed what was spewing forth from Bush's mouth he should be ashamed of himself.

[info being]

16. Its not acceptable that I knew more about the situation...

than the Dem Senators. I wasn't fooled. If they were, that's even worse than if their votes were intentional.

[HawkerHurricane]

19. I am getting sick of this.

Stay true to your principles. And watch this country go to hell while saying 'I told you so'.

First, they came for the Communists. But I did nothing for I wasn't a Communist.
Then, they came for the Jews.
Then, the trade unions.
Don't worry, they won't get to you for a long time. After all, they know you won't fight.

[havocmom]

22. High five, HH!

That was a good one!

[Hamlette]

20. Nader has been AWOL throughout, he's the deserter

I'd have some respect for Nader if he'd been around the last 3 years!

He shows up at the last minute to lecture me on how bad I've let things become?

Last time I thought he was just a narcissist. Now I think he's nuts.

Get over the vote for the war. The war is the least of our troubles. If you think not, take a look at the deficit, the environment, the religious right's take over of our "morals", the patriot act, civil rights, civil liberties, the list is endless.

The war is just a side show to prevent you from seeing the rape of OUR country at the hands of these people.

Get that scary republican out of my White House!

[Skittles]

21. NO

I am sickened by Kerry's IWR vote but dammit WE HAVE TO VOTE FOR SOMEONE WHO HAS A CHANCE TO BEAT BUSH. Nader simply doesn't have a prayer in hell.

[Moderator]

24. Locking--GD rules

Rules to start discussion threads in the General Discussion forum

7. Discussion topics about the Democratic presidential primary are not permitted in the General Discussion forum, and instead must be posted in the General Discussion: 2004 Primary forum.

Thank you for your understanding and cooperation,
DU moderator