IMHO bush just made a huge mistake.

[Bonhomme Richard]

He has opened the door for a national debate about basic legal rights for the gay community and he is going to lose. Even devil worshiper Delay doesn't know how to handle this hot potato.
At the expense of pandering to the lunatic right gays are going to come out of this with the right to engage in civil unions and that is a can of worms the corporate community wishes to stay closed. Their concern is only about money and the bottom line and they will end up paying benefits to legal spouses.
I truly believe that the average American is fair minded and once they learn the truth about the legal discrimination the gay community deals with every day then civil unions will be recognized.
Bush will be exposed for the bigot he is.
I read somewhere a great Line and I am paraphrasing, " Bush will be the first president to attempt to change the constitution on order to take rights away"
What a legacy!

[Search Party]

1. my wife and I agree 100%

we just wonder if kkkarl warned against this and the president said, "no kkkarl, i have to do this, it's what i believe in." or......no, i can't imagine rove condoning this strategy.

[sadiesworld]

2. I disagree, the dem nominee needs to focus on jobs, healthcare, failed

foreign policy, global warming (time for some scare politics there), and *'s endless lies and corruption. A national debate on gay rights plays right into Rove's hands.

[ewagner]

11. Agree

Rove saw this as a "wedge issue" and even Hastreit said it was "win-win" for the Repubs because at the very least it will force Dems to take sides in Congress.

From what I'm seeing, the Repugs don't actually expect the amendment to pass Congress, they just expect to make mileage out of it in the ensuing debate.

[Imajika]

3. I think you are absolutely wrong

I suspect the country is fairly split on the amendment part of this issue, but on gay marriage....the country is very much against it.

Bush will now be identified as the candidate against gay marriage. A clear cut position that Bush won't have to wrestle with from now till November.

The Democratic candidate, presumably Kerry, will have to be against gay marriage but also against a constitutional amendment. Then he will have to explain his DOMA vote. Kerry will have to explain how he will protect states from having to recognize gay marriages from other states that allow them. It will appear Kerry is flip flopping all over the place.

"I truly believe that the average American is fair minded and once they learn the truth about the legal discrimination the gay community deals with every day then civil unions will be recognized."

Nonsense. California is a liberal leaning state, and even there the people voted against gay marriage when given the chance. Imagine how that vote would go down in most other states in the union?

Imajika

[ender]

5. imagine how the vote would go...

if interracial marriages were put to a vote in the 50's

[Beetwasher]

6. Actually, You're Totally Wrong

All the polls I've seen have indicated that a large majority do NOT want a constitutional amendment. More people may be personally against gay marriage, but they don't support amending the constitution to ban it either. This will be yet another example of the Chimp's extreme radicalism and will be seen for what it is; a political ploy during an election year and pandering to the religious right extremists. Most people in this country are more moderate and more tolerant than you give them credit for and don't appreciate people tinkering with the constitution to advance radical agendas.

[Bonhomme Richard]

8. I think it will depend on how the debate is framed.

If you ask the average person whether they support gay marriage the answer is probably going to be no. If you ask if a gay persons significant other should be allowed to visit them in the hospital or have money left to them I think the answer would be yes.
Kerry is right supporting civil unions and bush even waffles on that. If we frame the debate correctly this could be a good thing.

[KharmaTrain]

12. Marriage No, Civil Unions, Yes

I agree, the concept of gays marrying in a religious/spiritual sense is a time that hasn't come in this country, but civil unions and a re-examination of the legal status of gay partnership is. I'm hoping this fiasco will enable a person to get equal protection under the law for a variety of legal procudures and documents (will, insurance, visitation, etc.) that a vast majority of American didn't realize were withheld.

However, the vision of two men or women being recognized as "married" in a religious/spiritual sense...formally approved by society and religion...forget it. This, to some, is giving gays special status and it's going to be a RW rally cry. The more gays and others keep on this issue...one that has zero bearing on a vast majority...it will become bigger than it actually is and work against those who have dedicated their lives to equal rights for all.

As a heterosexual, I'm not threatened by same sex marriage, and to be honest, let polygimists and anyone who qualifies to marry (that'll showcase how screwed up Utah is)...but I am uncomfortable cheerleading a gay issue when there's so many others of such high importance at stake. I figure that if we outst this regime, then we can take a clear, objective look at this issue without the heavy politization that's currently taking place and then the laws will change.

Right now a backlash from gays or the left will be picked up and amplified by the media and the RW...playing right into the hands of the GOOP who know will milk this wedge issue for all its worth and tar the Democrats as "gay lovers" and "morally bankrupt"...the typical buzzwords and rhetoric that fills their campaign coffers and loads up the church busses on election day. That's what this is about.

[ixion]

4. actually, prohibition was the first to take rights away

And we all know how well that worked out. :eyes:

[TNDemo]

7. Maybe to appeal to the financially conservative folks

it should be touted as a way to get a lot of people off the Medicaid rolls since they can now be covered on their partner's insurance.

[Kazak]

9. The quote:

I believe you are talking about Ted Kennedy's rebuttal where he said, and I paraphrase, "Bush will go down as the first President to try to write bias back into the constitution."

Clearly this is a civil rights issue...best to stay on the right side of it.

[av8rdave]

10. And this push for this ammendment from...

the party that wants government out of our lives! What a bunch of *&%$ hypocrites!

av8rdave

[historian]

13. the gay community

are huge spenders - they enjoy the fine things in life and dont mind spending for it (i speak out of experience having lived in san francisco for many years). Hopefully they will become so pissed off they will boycott the companies who give money to bush money and boycott the f.....s