In the name of God

[Az]

There is a lot of tension running around these days about the nature of belief. Here in DU we are experiencing this tension as well. The Gibson movie is in part responsible for a surge but it has been going on for a while now. The reason for this has not so much to do with Christianity in general but rather it comes from the fact that most of the calls for social restriction from the right come in the name of God.

Look, the Religious Right(RR) has set this issue ablaze. They tie everything back to what they believe the bible tells them is right and wrong. Thus when they speak out they claim to speak for god. This is going to upset those that do not follow their interpretation of the bible. This will include many Christians as well as nonChristians.

It is difficult to discuss the word religion. It has many meanings to many different people. Those that are not part of any particular religion often lump all the other religions together into one group. They see any problem associated with religion as coming from this amorphous group. This is a situation that can only be corrected by making them familiar with the differences between the vast types of religious individuals.

Nonreligious people generally do not fit in well with religious organizations. Thus they cannot see the actual going ons within the various sects. They do not familiarise themself with the differences between liberal theologies and conservative theologies. This leaves it to the practictioners of these beliefs to see to it that their views are made known to the world. If they do not speak up then the vocal conservative factions will by default be the only voice claiming to speak in the name of god.

If you believe that the conservative fundimentalists have got it wrong you have to speak up. Do not let them speak for you. Do not let others form their opinion of your beliefs on the words of someone else. And do be prepared to turn the other cheek. There is much ignorance to overcome and people will start with assumptions based on those who have spoken in the name of god before you.

[mopaul]

1. God is on the ticket in 04

it's hard to avoid the subject of religion in america on this particular day. the jesus movie frenzy. the gay marriage amendment.
the president stirring the pot and turning up the heat. almost every thread here this morning is about religion and it's influence on our way of life.

i've been terribly guilty of getting into heated discussions about how a particular religious sect, the born agains, have taken over the government by proxy, through the repubs. and then, being passionate, i insult certain people. it's hard not to sometimes, but i've been guilty of doing it with malice.

but how can we ignore how the conservative christian wing started under reagan that have stripped away at our rights and threatened our democracy with a grim determination and purpose? they are a real threat to us all, and they must be reckoned with.

we are constitutionally protected against such a religious take-over, and we have freedom of, and from religion, if it becomes too oppressive or overly influential on our government.

PEOPLE WAKE UP!...FIGURE IT OUT...RELIGIOUS FANATICS ARE RUNNING ABOUT..........f. zappa

[waterman]

2. Two very good posts here. It sure is a hot topic right now.

Sometimes I think they call it the religious right simply because they always think they are. They have major probs with opposition or dissent. I think they have hijacked this country and totally ignored the founding documents. They'll continue to try as long as they feel they're getting away with it. That's what revolutions are for. To bring the balance back the other way. Maybe it's time for another one.

[BigDaddyLove]

8. I'm curious as to which rights of yours have been stripped away...

by the Conservative Christian Wing that you mention.

[Beetwasher]

9. How About the Right to Reproductive Health Choice?

You've heard about the late-term abortion ban?

That not only strips a woman of the right to control her body, but the right to save her own life if her pregnancy is threatening it.

How about the right to Freedom FROM religion? If the ban on gay marriage happens, gays will be stripped of their INALIENABLE RIGHT to pursue happiness because of some people's religious views on marriage.

How about the right to freely worship and freedom of religion? If they gay marriage ban passes then other religions that feel it's ok to perform gay marriages will stripped of their right to the religous freedom to perform them.

[truthspeaker]

10. the right to buy vibrators in Texas

The right to have my kids learn biology in school.

Those aren't "rights" but they are examples of the damage caused by the wingnuts.

[GreenPartyVoter]

3. $hrub co-opted my nation AND my savior.

I for one won't go quietly into the night on either count, which is why I made my webpage.

[TXvote]

4. This Will be a "Righteous" Election

Doen here in the South, when all else fails, you pull God out of your pocket and claim to be more righteous. From the full spectrum of believers, there will be a majority that wants to "do right" and vote for the more "righteous" candidate. Karl Rove will have believers thinking an army of marriage minded gay people want to adopt your babies, corrupt your children, rape you in a dark alley, and bring down the wrath of God on America like Sodum and Gemorrah.

The more we hop around and scream and holler about it, the further from God we appear to be. We have to get down to their level and speak with the utmost calm and respect in order to be heard. Remember, it's not just the far religous right (though they are leading the way), it's the faithful that will be examining the balance between faith and state and weighing the "power" being offered to elect a candidate that is Chritian as well. You can be sure the far right will be getting a lot of press, so combating this involves the ever valuable one on one conversations with your community. The faithful dress up and meet once a week and to examine their faith and the world around us. Are we meeting one a week with them to discuss our nation as well?

We can address this issue very simply. This is an issue separation of bedroom and state. I do not want the government in my bedroom (or yours). Amending our Constition should not be based on a religous creedo since this country was founded on religous freedom. If we respect a person's right to worship as they see fit, we should also respect our national laws that protect that freedom. This is a state's rights issue about civil unions, not forcing any church to recognize a marriage. Now, really, let's talk about the economy.

[Virginian]

5. Radio and religion

A local talk radio station used to have a more reasonable program in the evening, The Victoria Jones Show. I wish she was still on, but the station has gotten rid of the more progressive personalities and recently, according to TIME magazine, they even got rid of Dr. Laura because they want to cater to right wing men only. But that's another story.

Anyway, a caller was discussing with Victoria the hot issue of school prayer.

Victoria started asking questions: Who should lead the prayer? Should the Teacher who is leading the prayer use a prayer from her own faith? Should all the students have to pray with the teacher?
After Victoria led him into what could only be the Fundie's perfect religious classroom setting she asked, "What if the teacher were Hindu and leading the children in Hindu prayers?"

He sputtered and stammered and finally said his kid wouldn't be in that classroom.

She was so good at reason that many on the right felt threatened by her. They didn't want logic to cloud the thoughts Rush had deposited into their brains a few hours earlier.

The RR want everyone to be tolerant of their right to practice their religion, but they don't seem to want to tolerate the same for other denominations. This is a turn-off to many people, even other Christians. When I hear a negative comment about "Christians," I think it is not directed at me, but at those who want to dominate others with a specific variety of "holier than thou," intolerant Christianity which I don't find very Christ like.

[Az]

6. Pat

You say you're supposed to be nice to the Episcopalians and the Presbyterians and the Methodists and this, that, and the other thing. Nonsense. I don't have to be nice to the spirit of the Antichrist. I can love the people who hold false opinions but I don't have to be nice to them. -- Pat Robertson

Yes its Pat. We dismiss him on a regular basis. But he has the ear of millions of people.

[Virginian]

7. How did such a mean, mean, man

get to revise the spirit of Christianity?

Love is where he has a problem. He treats it like a four letter word. Oh, it is a four letter word.

I would like to see exactly how he defines the word Love.

[Az]

11. Love is tricky

Combined with belief? All one need do is twist the call to love from the individual to something seperate like a soul. I frequently see Christians espousing love for everyone around them. But this strikes me as cheap. It is the idea of the soul they love. They do not know me enough to know whether they love me or not. This is like discrimination. Some hate without knowing the person. Others claim to love without knowing the person. Without giving them the chance to prove themself and who they are you demolish any sense of caring about who they really are.

Now once you have detached that which the people love from the actual person there is little you cannot get them to do to the actual person. For the love of their immortal soul countless Jews and Heathens were tortured to death. For the love of their immortal soul women have been burned as witches.

A little twist is all it takes. Held within the rigid structure of dogmatic belief love can be turned into a weapon.

[Virginian]

12. "Jesus loves you and I do too"

That, to me, is like the minister at my cousin's church who had to hug everyone as they left the service. I don't like to hug strangers. It made me uncomfortable just like the subject line above.

If you love me because Jesus does, then love me like Jesus does. Don't go off and redefine love. His love had kindness attached to it -- not hatred. Jesus didn't force people to see His way, He led them.

I spent enough time in the Bible Belt that I learned to avoid people who started talking about what God wants. Unless I was in church, they were really telling me what THEY wanted, and using God's name (in vain) to try to control my behavior. My mother taught me to be respectful to them, but just take what they had to say with a grain of salt. After all, why should I believe their connection with God was any more direct than my own?

I am the person I have to live with for the rest of my life.

[LeahMira]

13. Souls, but not people!

It is the idea of the soul they love.

Exactly. It's almost like some personal affront to them if they imagine there is a "soul" out there that isn't headed for heaven. They care not one whit about the living person in front of them, or what that person might be dealing with. In some cases it seems they even make life more difficult for others and then natter on about what heavenly reward awaits the patient soul that endures Christian persecution. Baloney to that!

[ithacan]

14. www.TheocracyWatch.org

This is a must read website that documents the rise of the Religious Right in the Republican Party.

It's not just "Christians," it is that very particular kind of Christian that Az is talking about. That's why it's dangerous.

Check it out, this is not something we can ignore: http://www.TheocracyWatch.org/