Christian Responsibility

[prodigal_green]

OK, there have been several threads and polls lately about what our respective religions are and it got me thinking...

In the wake of 9/11, there was an expectation that non-fundie Muslims should loudly denounce the attacks and terrorism in general. We kept hearing phrases like, "Islam is a religion of peace" and "the Koran forbids the killing of innocents", etc. Personally, I DO think it was the responsibility of people to make this clear.

Now it is our turn. Christians (including Catholics), meaning "those who follow the teachings of Christ" have got to turn up the volume and denounce twisted fundementalism that is being used to justify literal terrorism (remember attacks against abortion clinics and doctors) and Constitution burning. Remember, every major Christian church in the US (except for Southern Baptists) as well as other religions denounced the war. We need rallies, people. We need articulate, television-ready talking heads who will get the message of tolerance, helping the poor and disadvantaged, loving one's enemy, and FORGIVENESS out to the American public. Our bible and our Christ have been bound and gagged for too long.

Anyway, my two cents.

[Loonman]

1. Good plan

However, we're still waiting for prominent Muslim leaders to decry rabid fundamentalism, heck, the Saudi Royal Family bankrolls the radicals.

[GreenPartyVoter]

2. There are moderate Imams who do

but you don't see them in the media any more than you see the Jimmy Carter Christians more than you see the Robertses and Falwells.

[Loonman]

4. No, you don't

Jimmy Carter is an honorable man. But, he's a liberal, so there it is.

[KCDem]

3. check out www.au.org

Americans United for the Separation of Church and State.

It's a rather self-explanatory name. It looks like they have local chapters, as well as action-alerts.

[GreenPartyVoter]

5. Here is the Scripture I feature on my website:

"Love your enemies. Blessed are the peacemakers. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also." (Matthew 5:44; 5:9; 5:39.)

"If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her. Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you." (John 8:7; Matthew 7:1,2.) )

"Watch out! Be on your guard against all kinds of greed; a man's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions." (Luke 12.15.)

"He who trusts in his riches will fall, but like green leaves the just flourish." (Proverbs 11:28)

"Toil not to gain wealth, cease to be concerned about it." (Proverbs 23:4)

"Give to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to give to God the things that are God's." (Matthew 22:21)

"Let every soul be in subjection to the higher authorities, for there is no authority except from God, and those who be are ordained by God. Therefore he who resists the authority, withstands the ordinance of God; and those who withstand will receive to themselves judgment. For rulers are not a terror to the good work, but to the evil. Do you desire to have no fear of the authority? Do that which is good, and you will have praise from the same, for he is a servant of God to you for good. But if you do that which is evil, be afraid, for he doesn't bear the sword in vain; for he is a minister of God, an avenger for wrath to him who does evil.

Therefore you need to be in subjection, not only because of the wrath, but also for conscience' sake. For this reason you also pay taxes, for they are ministers of God's service, attending continually on this very thing. Give therefore to everyone what you owe: taxes to whom taxes are due; customs to whom customs; respect to whom respect; honor to whom honor."

(Romans 13:1-7)

"Jesus sat down opposite the place where the offerings were put and watched the crowd putting their money into the temple treasury. Many rich people threw in large amounts. But a poor widow came and put in two very small copper coins, worth only a fraction of a penny. Calling his disciples to him, Jesus said, 'I tell you the truth, this poor widow has put more into the treasury than all the others.'" (Mark 12:41-43)

"'Does it make you a king to have more and more cedar? Did not your father have food and drink? He did what was right and just, so all went well with him. He defended the cause of the poor and needy, and so all went well. Is that not what it means to know me?' declares the LORD ." (Jeremiah: 22:15,16)

"He who confers benefits will be amply enriched, and he who refreshes others will himself be refreshed. Him who monopolizes grain, the people curse- but blessings upon the head of him who distributes it!" (Proverbs 11:25-6)

"If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Truly, I say unto you, it will be hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. I repeat what I said: it is easier for a camel to pass through a needle's eye than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. You cannot serve both God and Money." (Matthew 19:21,23,24; 6:24.)

"He who is kind to the poor lends to the LORD , and he will reward him for what he has done. If a man shuts his ears to the cry of the poor, he too will cry out and not be answered. A generous man will himself be blessed, for he shares his food with the poor." (Proverbs 19:17, 21:13, 22: 9)

"He who oppresses the poor blasphemes his Maker, but he who is kind to the needy glorifies him." (Proverbs 14:31)

"He who oppresses the poor to enrich himself will yield up his gains to the rich as sheer loss. Injure not the poor because they are poor, nor crush the needy at the gate; For the LORD will defend their cause, and will plunder the lives of those who plunder them. Open your mouth in behalf of the dumb, and for the rights of the destitute; Open your mouth, decree what is just, defend the needy and the poor!" (Proverbs 14:31, 22:16, 22-3, 31:8-9")

"Woe to those who make unjust laws, to those who issue oppressive decrees, to deprive the poor of their rights and withhold justice from the oppressed of my people, making widows their prey and robbing the fatherless. What will you do on the day of reckoning, when disaster comes from afar? To whom will you run for help? Where will you leave your riches?" (Isaiah 10:1-3)

"The scoundrel's methods are wicked, he makes up evil schemes to destroy the poor with lies, even when the plea of the needy is just. But the noble man makes noble plans, and by noble deeds he stands." (Isaiah 32:7,8)

"Yet on the day of your fasting, you do as you please and exploit all your workers....Is not this the kind of fasting I have chosen: to loose the chains of injustice and untie the cords of the yoke, to set the oppressed free and break every yoke? Is it not to share your food with the hungry and to provide the poor wanderer with shelter- when you see the naked, to clothe him, and not to turn away from your own flesh and blood?'" (Isaiah 58:3,6,7,10)

"When you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind and you will be blessed. Although they cannot repay you, you will repaid at the resurrection of the righteous." (Luke 14:13,14.)

"If you see the donkey of someone who hates you fallen down under its load, do not leave it there; be sure you help him with it. Do not deny justice to your poor people in their lawsuits. Have nothing to do with a false charge and do not put an innocent or honest person to death, for I will not acquit the guilty." (Exodus 23:5-7)

"If any of you has a sheep and it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will you not take hold of it and lift it out? The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." (Matthew 12:11; Mark 2:27.)

"Do not take advantage of a hired man who is poor and needy, whether he is a brother Israelite or an alien living in one of your towns. Pay him his wages each day before sunset, because he is poor and is counting on it. Otherwise he may cry to the LORD against you, and you will be guilty of sin." (Deuteronomy 24:14,15)

"You trample on the poor and force him to give you grain. Therefore, though you have built stone mansions, you will not live in them; though you have planted lush vineyards, you will not drink their wine. For I know how many are your offenses
and how great your sins. You oppress the righteous and take bribes and you deprive the poor of justice in the courts." (Amos 5:11,12)

"'Like cages full of birds, their houses are full of deceit; they have become rich and powerful and have grown fat and sleek. Their evil deeds have no limit; they do not plead the case of the fatherless to win it, they do not defend the rights of the poor. Should I not punish them for this?' declares the LORD . 'Should I not avenge myself on such a nation as this?'" (Jeremiah 5:27-29)

" 'Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.'" (Ezekiel 16:49)

"Do not mistreat an alien or oppress him, for you were aliens in Egypt. Do not take advantage of a widow or an orphan. Do not accept a bribe, for a bribe blinds those who see and twists the words of the righteous. Do not oppress an alien; you yourselves know how it feels to be aliens, because you were aliens in Egypt." (Exodus 22:21,22; 23:8,9)

"'When an alien lives with you in your land, do not mistreat him. The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born. Love him as yourself, for you were aliens in Egypt. I am the LORD your God. Do not use dishonest standards when measuring length, weight or quantity.'" (Leviticus 19:33-35)

"This is what the LORD Almighty says: 'Administer true justice; show mercy and compassion to one another. Do not oppress the widow or the fatherless, the alien or the poor. In your hearts do not think evil of each other.'" (Zechariah 7:9,10)

"But when the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then will he sit on the throne of his glory. Before him all the nations will be gathered, and he will separate them one from another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

Then the King will tell them on his right hand, 'Come, blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was hungry, and you gave me food to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me drink; I was a stranger, and you took me in; naked, and you clothed me; I was sick, and you visited me; I was in prison, and you came to me.'

Then the righteous will answer him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry, and feed you; or thirsty, and give you a drink? When did we see you as a stranger, and take you in; or naked, and clothe you? When did we see you sick, or in prison, and come to you?'

The King will answer them, 'Most assuredly I tell you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.'" (Matthew 25:31-46)

[GreenPartyVoter]

6. Oh! *lol* The Board ate my chapter and verses and made

them into smilies! *lol*

Who says He has no sense of humor? *g*

[Maeve]

11. Just a quick tip for quoting chapter and verse--next time

Check the little box at the bottom of the message screen that says "Check here if ou DO NOT wish to use emotion icons in your message".

[GreenPartyVoter]

12. DOH, should have thought of that. Thanks Maeve :)

[Cleita]

7. What Christians, Jews, Muslims and Druids et al need to do

is practice religion in their churches, temples, mosques or whatever is their own property at the time as well as in their homes. They don't belong in our government, public places or other people's religious property or homes.

See, it's really a matter of respecting the civic liberties and property of others for all of us to get along. Any religion like the fundamentalists need to be reminded about this by the proper authorities when they cross the line.

[GreenPartyVoter]

9. Pharisees never can recognize themselves in a mirror

[prodigal_green]

14. Cleita, I agree in principle

I don't mean that Christians should do anything to either push Christianity on others or limit anybody's right to worship freely or not worship as they see fit. My beef (or seitan, I'm a vegetarian), is with the fact that a minority has hijacked a religion which politicians try to pander to or are cowed by all the time.

If we show them (politicians) that most Christians in America do not share fundamentalist values and that we do not want the government to become a theocracy and that we don't want to throw out science in favor of poetry and allegory, perhaps political discourse can return to issues like the economy, justice and matters of state.


(edited to add the name of the poster to whom I am responding)

[Cleita]

15. Actually, this is my point. If all religions are kept to the

principle of separation of Church and State, no one would be able to Lord it over the other. (I can't believe I said that.)

When you start passing laws based on religion, then you cross the line. I have been in American towns where you can't get a beer on Sunday. In one state various businesses that serve liquor are not allowed to have signs outside of their establishments, which means you have to know it's a bar, because there is no sign stating that.

In some places it is against the law to dance. If you start mandating Creationism in schools and laws against gays, etc. etc., these are religious based laws and have no business in our public governments because they are not based on the common good and safety of the populace, but on arbitrary religious rules.

[GreenPartyVoter]

16. Even with strict separation (which I believe in)

you'll still get the evangies out there wintessing at everyone.

The point is, we quiet liberal Christians need to make our voices heard too so that folks know there is another side to the story. Hence the reason for my website. It's a quiet but effective way of reaching out to others with my own view of things.

[GreenPartyVoter]

8. BTW, welcome Prodigal Green :)

[LeahMira]

10. They claim that they are...

Now it is our turn. Christians (including Catholics), meaning "those who follow the teachings of Christ" have got to turn up the volume and denounce twisted fundementalism that is being used to justify literal terrorism (remember attacks against abortion clinics and doctors) and Constitution burning.

I said as much on an AOL board long time ago and was told that Christians do denounce the extremism of some of their co-religionists. I have to admit that the squeaky wheels do get the oil and the crazies do get press. At the same time, speaking as someone who is not Christian so not in the pew on Sunday, I don't hear anything from "those who follow the teachings of Christ." I'm pleased to read your statement and hope that your kind of message gets out so that other good Christians hear it, but also that it's loud enough so everyone hears it.

[Az]

13. Hearing that would put a lot of people at ease

If you do not speak up for your beliefs those willing to do so will speak for you.

We look at statistics and see that a huge majority of people in the US are Christian (Catholics included). Then the only voice we hear are those of Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwel, Ralph Reed, and the rest of the religious right. Even though logically these two facts do not necissarily correlate the general perception is that they do speak for that vast majority.

The reason there is so much reaction to Christianity is because Muslem clerics are not calling for our rights to be stripped away. Buddhist monks do not insist that their prayers be read in public schools. Taoist preists do not insist that the Tao Te Ching be displayed in public buildings.

If you do not want the actions of the religious right to be seen as representational of your beliefs you are going to have to give us another point of view on the matter. You are going to have to make your voice heard. Or they will simply take the name of Jesus and make it their own.