Could "The Passion" be a boon to us liberals??

[DianeG5385]

Jesus Christ was the ultimate liberal.. He would never have been a part of the radical fundamentalists and would have condemned the money grubbing GOP. He preached peace and love. He died because the PTB were afraid of him. His power and courage could be the power and courage we need to take this country back. Maybe Mel did us a favor. Note: I have a huge family of mainly Catholic conservatives. I am the odds bodkins. I pray that if there is a God, he uses this vehicle to allow the used and abused religiously faithful to see the light and evict Bush. I would then believe in miracles.

(If I were an apostle, my name would be Thomas)

O8)

[Dob Bole]

1. Maybe

But as I understand it, the Passion only shows the last 12 hours of Jesus' life on Earth- in other words, it's 120 minutes of Jesus getting the crap beaten out of him. I'm not completely sure if it will actually convey any message at all. But I plan to see it anyway, after the fuss dies down.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

26. this is a "teaching moment"

I couldn't get tickets tonight, but I'll see Passion this weekend - either liberals will take this moment to describe the story the way it sould be described, or we will allow the wingnuts to do it. The choice is out. This is a "teachable moment" if you know what I mean and I think that you do!

[liberalhistorian]

2. Excellent points,

as a liberal Christian I'm upset at the focus Gibson puts on Christ's suffering and the intense violence.

Christ himself didn't want the focus to be on him and his pain and suffering, he wanted it to be on human beings who are suffering and in pain, no matter who they are, what color or gender they are, how much or how little money they have, their socioeconomic status, their sexual orientation, etc.

THAT was the important thing to him and to God. Over and over and over and over and over again, all throughout the New Testament (and even in many, many, many places in the Old Testament) it's made clear that our focus is to be on the suffering and pain of people and the importance of helping them no matter what, and no matter who or what they were; helping and being concerned for the poor was ESPECIALLY important.

These RW wingnut bigoted, intolerant, hateful, mean-spirited, wealth-obsessed, self-righteous, judgmental, sanctimonious, fundie fascist fuckheads wouldn't know Jesus if he came down in ninety feet of fire and glory in front of them. Of course, he sure wouldn't know them, either.

[DianeG5385]

3. I think that Jesus would have abhorred

The Iraq war

Outsourcing jobs

Reducing SS payments for those that most need them
corrollary: SS Privatisation so that the market could be over inflated artificially so that the "players" could make big money off the privatised savings of the poor fools who think their short term gain will be there when they retire! (Someone will make money on their backs) Sorry to go on, but the alleged tech bubble was really a ton of 401(k) money with nowhere to go. We were played!

Gay marriage nonsense

I could go on and on.

The Jesus I believe in as opposed to a deity of which I am not quite sure would have never been on their side.

[liberalhistorian]

6. Well, as a Christian, I believe

in Jesus in a way that non-Christians don't, but you're absolutely right, he would have hated and opposed all of the things you mentioned and a whole lot more, just about everything going on today with the fundie wingnuts in the "name of Christ."

He'd be especially scornful of Shrub and his claims to being a "man of God."

[StClone]

4. Jesus

More movies should focus on his works and words rather than the last days of his life which was only a prelude to the high event of Christianity: The Resurrection.

This again PROVES that Gibson's aim was to get attention rather than honestly reveal what Christ's life of teaching was about.

[liberalhistorian]

8. Exactly, that was my

thought as well, it's just for attention. It pisses me off, because the focus is all wrong and, whether you believe in Christ or not, he certainly didn't want his own pain and suffering to be the focus, rather he wanted it to be on the pain and suffering of others, and the importance of helping and being concerned for others, no matter who or what they were or what the size of their wallet was.

In fact, he had nothing but contempt and disdain and scorn for those who looked down on the poor and the have-nots.

Too bad for the fundie wingnuts that they seem to so conveniently forget that, along with almost all of his other important teachings.

[TowelBoy]

14. I'd like to contend this...

religion is a very strong point for me, and I definitely think the Passion is a good movie because it drives home the pain he went through and the sacrifice he made. There are many places to find the real focus of Jesus' life (like the Bible), but the Passion is focusing on his last 12 hours for a reason. Now I'm not entirely trusting of Mel, but the last thing we as liberals should be is quick to judgement.

And no, I'm not trying to evangelize or anything, I just get sick of anybody from either side mixing politics and religion. They are very seperate and different and completely unrelated things.

[liberalhistorian]

22. Fair enough. It's true that

many Christians tend to forget his suffering, or they don't pay much attention to it at all, and that's going too far the other way. But it's also wrong to go too far the other way as well.

Unfortunately, throughout history, politics and religion have always been mixed, in some countries more than others. You just can't avoid it, although it would be nice if you could.

[StClone]

21. Not to be overly self aggrandizing

But could Liberals of today be the outcasts and the downtrodden?

[liberalhistorian]

28. Yes, very much so,

but they've always been in almost every society. Jesus was the ultimate liberal outcast.

[Jade Fox]

5. As someone who works for a Christian organization (don't ask)

I doubt it. The Christians I am around (good people for the most part) seem
to identify most with the victim aspect of Christ's life, though they preach his
teachings. Christians are being persecuted so they just have to move to stop those
doing the persecuting, like, you know, gays who want equal rights. One can justify all
kinds of crap with that logic. Rush Limbaugh's brother David has written a book with
the title "How Liberals are out to destroy Christianity", or something like that. This
seems to be the trend in a lot of Christian thinking right now.

[Dob Bole]

7. Habitat, Salvation Army, Sojourners, WorldVision...

these are all great organizations, no matter what anybody says. And a lot of the people who subscribe to that kind of thinking are fundies, reconstructionists, or people who see certain laws as a sign of the end- not representative of the world's Christians.

[Ksec]

10. question. Was it the Jews or the Romans(italians) that killed Jesus?

Im hearing all these opposing veiws and this question gets to the gut of the problem.

[Dob Bole]

12. Question: Was it the Jews or the Romans who gave us Salvation?

That should be the question people ask going into the movie. This "who murdered Jesus" crap, when it was a sacrificial death, completely miss the point of Christianity.

[Jade Fox]

20. Yes, I work for one of those organizations....

And they do a TREMENDOUS amount of good, for which they have my complete
respect. But when it comes to signing petitions, passing laws, and visiting
the voting booth, these people do and believe some scary things. Many of those I
work with accept absolutely that GWBush is in the White House because
God wanted him there. A co-worker posted a "joke" on the office email that
made fun of the idea of Hillary Clinton being assasinated. The contradictions
abound.

[liberalhistorian]

9. GRRRRRR!!!!!!

As a Christian, I am so DAMN SICK AND TIRED of hearing about how "persecuted" Christians are in this country, when, in reality, it's the other way around, those who are NOT Christians are the ones who feel the heat. And this country wasn't founded just for Christians, although you just can't seem to get that through to them.

[RC]

16. This country wasn't founded by Christians either.

[DianeG5385]

19. So true

Another lie told by the pubs and the fundies. It's like being stuck in a fishing net, all tangled up and you keep hearing a lie. You are dreaming and your voice won't work. They get their crappy lie out but the other side (us) don't have the PTB behind us so we are swallowed up and spit out in the name of power. So we must stand for something not AGAINST something!

[liberalhistorian]

27. No, it wasn't,

but you just can't tell the fundie fascist nutballs that, I think their brains would explode!

[corporatewhore]

11. if jesus washere Ithinkhe would be with American Friends Service Comittee

[liberalhistorian]

23. Yes, he certainly would be,

no doubt!

[TowelBoy]

13. Calm down there fellow

There should definitely be a line drawn when it comes to religion and politics. I'm pretty sure Jesus wouldn't be and isn't happy with a lot of things that goes on, and using him to further the liberal agenda is disgusting. I mean... I love spreading liberalism as much as I can, but using Jesus to do it just seems sick. I mean... come on, I think God ranks a little higher on the importance scale than politics, and by a little I mean a lot. I would definitely urge you to consider using Jesus for your own purposes, because that's what a lot of conservatives do, and it disgusts us all, and it is a two way street

[GreenPartyVoter]

15. Welcome TowelBoy :)

[DianeG5385]

18. I think the spirit of what Jesus stood for is vital

It has been so corrupted. I remember the slogan, WWJD? Well, I think we kinda know that he would not be aligning with the pubs. As a guiding principle and a motivation for returning this country to its bright and shining example of greatness, I could think of no better example to follow. I don't see that as an exploitation, unlike what the fundies do which is to pervert His message. We don't need to spout His name, just follow his example!

[fishwax]

24. Can't quite agree there

There is a difference between connecting political and religious beliefs on the one hand and attempting to use politics to impose your religious beliefs on society on the other hand. There isn't anything inherently wrong with the first. The second is what the fundies do, by trying to tell us what books we should/shouldn't read, what movies we should/shouldn't see, who we should/shouldn't love, etc.

But interweaving faith and PERSONAL politics is perfectly natural. I know plenty of liberal Christians who consider it an imperative of their faith (an imperative in following the teachings of Christ) that, for example, they fight against revoking the social safety net, against sacrificing the lives of hundreds of American soldiers and thousands of innocent civilians for false pretenses in Iraq, against allowing corporations to trample on the basic human rights of low/no-wage workers in other countries ... and the list goes on. Unlike the fundies, they are not trying to impose their religion on the world, but to separate their faith from their political orientation would be anathema.

To the extent that His teachings support the liberal agenda, and to the extent that they are diametrically opposed to the money-first, people-second agenda of America's right wing, how exactly is it disgusting to "use Jesus" to advance the liberal agenda?

[GreenPartyVoter]

17. All we can so is keep telling folks that not all of us Christians

are fundy evangelicals.

I can't tell you how many people I have pointed to my website today for just that reason. Feel free to be another one of them. *g*

[Armand]

25. Christian here...

and I'm no RW fundie. :)

[Mari333]

29. well I sure needed a laugh and this did it

http://landoverbaptist.org/news0304/passionflyer.html

[Jade Fox]

30. Too funny! Betty Bowers rules!