Are Liberal Views More Christian Than The Church's?

[stepnw1f]

With all the public attention on religion, I thought about why I was so opposed to the Fundies views and some of the Church's. Most of my life, I had been a Christian, actually Eastern Orthodox Christian (Hardcore). I began to realise that the Christian Church holds onto many concepts that have impeded our civil liberties such as: abortion, contraceptives, homosexuality, etc.

...instead of dealing with the issue, they just call it a sin. That's not dealing with the issue. In fact, it's denying essentially denying it exists.

Liberals on the other hand seem to confront and deal with ideas and freedom a lot better than the Church or Republicans. Why is that?

[Gman]

1. Liberals live and breathe Christ's words to the letter

as opposed to the RW "christians" who hate and revile the Beatitudes and cling to the Old Testament that Jesus taught us was the old way. The RW hates Jesus and all he stands for because Jesus was a liberal.

[wryter2000]

2. You can't lump all churches together

You can't even lump all Christian churches together or all Protestant churches together.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

3. yes, cos they have less to loose

i assume when you say christian churches you mean the fundie ones and the catholic church (i am sorry if you catholic but the pope is homophobic)..these people have hard rigid doctrines to follow that they have a particular interest in keeping ..if the pope says homosexuals can get married what the difference btw him and episcopalians and with that he will he still be able to retain his power...i basically think the powerful want to retain their power regardless of the cost...

liberal for the most part dont have that much power (except for the liberal politicians who are very rarely absolutely liberal)

maybe i am too tired today to make sense....

[Taeger]

6. Not John Paul II

John Paul II is in the category of "love the queer, hate the queerness.". The man is the MOST LIBERAL pope EVER by far.

Also, I'm pretty sure that John Paul II has resisted efforts to evict gays from the priesthood. This is probably for VERY good reason. There are a LOT of them and the church is ALREADY short on priests.

No, if the Pontiff was truly homophobic, he would have drummed out the homosexual priests a LONG time ago.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

8. sorry taegar

love the queer, hate the queerness.: SAME DIFFERENCE

thats just saying you will love a sinner so long as they dont sin

being gay means having "gay sex". you cant say its ok to be gay so long as your abstinent: thats homophobia.

[Taeger]

9. Really ...

Because I thought most gay folk subscribed to the view that you're "born gay". This means that one can be 100% queer without EVER engaging in a homosexual act.

So if "gay sex" makes one "gay", your previous argument falls apart. That means that homosexuality becomes a "choice" not a state of being.

So I think you should respect John Paul II for respecting a person "being gay" but saying that "gay sex" is a sin. In other words, being "born gay" is NOT a sin.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

10. well i dont respect him

you're still calling the vast majority of homosexuals sinners. thats not ok.

[Taeger]

15. No I'm not ...

John Paul II is calling most homosexuals sinners. He still loves you though. That's a WHOLE world better than the Southern Fundamentalists who think your agents of the devil!!!!

So perhaps respecting a little moderation is a GOOD thing. You never know if the NEXT Pontiff (John Paul II is running on fumes) might kick out the homosexual priests by allowing straight priests to marry.

For the record, we don't really know the #s of gay priests. Mostly because they're forbidden from ANY kind of sexual activity. But it's just one of those "well known" things that the types of youth who turn out being gay are the one's who end up going into seminary.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

18. i think your views to be condescending

to gay people...and no its not better...i am not a sinner or agent of the devil or anything aside from mere mortal..and the last thing i want is the popes condescension

[noiretextatique]

12. hate the sin, not the sinner

is still an endorsement of hatred.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

17. i agree with you

the last thing that i need is the popes condescension

[Hekate]

4. Short answer: sometimes

Very simplistically put, in the last generation Republican Christians seem to hew closely to the punitive Jehovah version of God in the OT (My way or death and damnation; and ignoring the times prophets like Moses argued with God and changed His mind over conditions or laws they thought unjust). Democratic Christians are more on the NT side of mercy and kindness, feeding the poor, etc.

The majority of Americans claim to be Christian, so it's important to know popular trends in belief and how it affects behavior, as opposed to pure theology. Theologically speaking, the wave of fundamentalism sweeping America is way off base, but the multitudes who read the Left Behind series are not interested in that.

Anyhow, this is a little off your question, but if you are interested in exploring liberal religion, I always recommend the Unitarian Universalists; if you'd like to stay with or return to the Christian wing, look online for Sojourner, a really fine journal, and also for the Interfaith Alliance. Both of them are working to maintain/restore the separation of church and state, and toward Jesus-like issues of social justice.

Hekate

[muriel_volestrangler]

5. Liberals are inherently interested in freedom

it's in the name. Churches vary; some are very much a hierarchy (eg Catholics), which tends to make them inflexible; some have such an emphasis on the Bible that they too are conservative - they can't go against what is already written. Both make it difficult to deal with new ideas such as contraception. Some churches are more flexible.

Whether being liberal is more Christian is more difficult to say. The churches might argue that either being Christian is defined by the divinely-guided Church, or in the words of the Bible. Others might say being Christian is following "love your neighbour", and thus being liberal. I think there can be a case for saying that "love your neighbour" doesn't automatically make abortion OK; I'd think that on most other controversial topics, the liberal and Christian viewpoint match.

I'd disagree that calling something a sin is not dealing with the issue; it's just a firm decision (but not necessarily a correct one).

[Mick Knox]

7. Youre assuming christianity is about freedom..

there is nothing further from the truth.. Christianity is not about politics and rights.. it is in fact completely opposite.... In my opinion of course....

[Estragon]

11. They don't "just call it a sin".

They're not just pulling this stuff out of thin air. Arguments against homosexuality-- with an emphasis on carnal lust, by the way, so that lusting for a woman would be just as much of a 'sin'-- are present in both the Old Testament and the New Testament, in several of Paul's letters. Contraception, as the Catholic church decided, removed the procreative from sex, which means that sex becomes something about lust. Which makes it just as much of a 'sin' as homosexuality. (This is a little less clear, though, because Paul does say that if one feels sexual temptation, he should get married, rather than end up like these pedophiliac priests..) And so on and so forth.

I'm not saying I agree with any of it, or that it's right. But a lot of it is indeed Christian.

The most important thing to remember is, what place must Christian values have in our government?



(By the way, I'm homosexual, radical, and very much not a Christian. Just spent a lot of time being one....)

[arewethereyet]

13. thats a metaphysical impossibility

The church is not supposed to "deal with it". They have never been ambigous on their stance and there are scriptural reasons for it.

If it was right yesterday, its still right today. If it was wrong yesterday, its still wrong today. Principles don't change.

If you can't abide with the rules, quit the club.

[GreenPartyVoter]

14. And then there are the Liberal Christians :)

http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/liberalchristians.htm

[sangha]

16. Not if DU is any guide

If DU is a liberal site, then Christian churches are generally more liberal than liberals. They believe in a living wage, civil rights for all, pacifism, charity, solidarity, and sacrifice.

Theliberals on DU have a mixed record.

[TacticalPeek]

19. Carl Sandburg - To a Contemporary Bunkshooter

Carl Sandburg - To a Contemporary Bunkshooter

YOU come along. . . tearing your shirt. . . yelling about
Jesus.
Where do you get that stuff?
What do you know about Jesus?
Jesus had a way of talking soft and outside of a few
bankers and higher-ups among the con men of Jerusalem
everybody liked to have this Jesus around because
he never made any fake passes and everything
he said went and he helped the sick and gave the
people hope.


You come along squirting words at us, shaking your fist
and calling us all damn fools so fierce the froth slobbers
over your lips. . . always blabbing we're all
going to hell straight off and you know all about it.


I've read Jesus' words. I know what he said. You don't
throw any scare into me. I've got your number. I
know how much you know about Jesus.
He never came near clean people or dirty people but
they felt cleaner because he came along. It was your
crowd of bankers and business men and lawyers
hired the sluggers and murderers who put Jesus out
of the running.


I say the same bunch backing you nailed the nails into
the hands of this Jesus of Nazareth. He had lined
up against him the same crooks and strong-arm men
now lined up with you paying your way.

This Jesus was good to look at, smelled good, listened
good. He threw out something fresh and beautiful
from the skin of his body and the touch of his hands
wherever he passed along.
You slimy bunkshooter, you put a smut on every human
blossom in reach of your rotten breath belching
about hell-fire and hiccupping about this Man who
lived a clean life in Galilee.

When are you going to quit making the carpenters build
emergency hospitals for women and girls driven
crazy with wrecked nerves from your gibberish about
Jesus--I put it to you again: Where do you get that
stuff; what do you know about Jesus?


Go ahead and bust all the chairs you want to. Smash
a whole wagon load of furniture at every performance.
Turn sixty somersaults and stand on your
nutty head. If it wasn't for the way you scare the
women and kids I'd feel sorry for you and pass the hat.
I like to watch a good four-flusher work, but not when
he starts people puking and calling for the doctors.
I like a man that's got nerve and can pull off a great
original performance, but you--you're only a bug-
house peddler of second-hand gospel--you're only
shoving out a phoney imitation of the goods this
Jesus wanted free as air and sunlight.

more
http://www.americanpoems.com/poets/carlsandburg/toacontemporary.shtml