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We have a winner (warning: pretty darned disturbing)

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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 07:02 PM
Original message
We have a winner (warning: pretty darned disturbing)
Edited on Fri Feb-27-04 07:02 PM by WilliamPitt
I had an essay published yesterday about the Mel Gibson Jesus movie, which you can read here:

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/022704A.shtml

I've gotten some pretty goofy email replies from fundy types, plus a lot of really thoughtful ones from people who can think straight. And then there's this below. Don't ever forget that people like this exist.

This guy signed his name to this. Figure that.

===

Let me ask you why you are so quick to point out that Jesus was a brown-skinned person, and the Jewish actor who portrayed him is white, when you've never, ever made that observation before about Jews in general, namely that most of them look like white Europeans. In fact most of them are indistinguishable from white Europeans, many of them have fair hair and blue eyes. But you've never brought that up until now. Why not? Obviously it's because you're a coward, because you know they'd have your ass on a platter.

You're either a Black or a self-hating white man, either of which would disqualify you from making any kind of comment at all regarding race.

Jews have intermarried throughout the centuries with Europeans. If an unbiased research were done today on Jews it would probably indicate that most Jews have about 75% white, European DNA---or more. Jews ARE Europeans, except for a small minority. Tell them that, though, and they get really, really defensive because they just love to consider themselves some kind of elitist sect.

Jesus has been described as having a "swarthy" complexion, just as the original Jews in the Middle East. While he was described as having thick hair, most accounts don't even hint that he had a brillo pad look, if that's what you'd like people to believe. Dark hair and eyes were also Jewish traits. Jewishness is STRICTLY just a religion now. They've been very willingly ethnically cleansed by the Europeans over the centuries simply through simple inter-breeding with Whites.

It gives me a good chuckle everytime some black tries to give some half-assed revisionist history claiming some advanced person or people were black, such as the Egyptians, when their group I.Q. in Africa is 70 and the U.S. it is 80, if the mulattos are discounted. I can just see a bunch of niggers trying to figure out how to build a pyramid. Blacks like to complain that Whites consider them inferior, but they must not be looking or listening beyond that, because every group on earth thinks they're inferior, not just whites.

Yes, your article was right when it said the Jews were like the Iraqis and others in that region today, but what the hell makes the difference?

No multicultural/multiracial nation in the history of mankind has been successful. ALL of them have disintegrated, mostly via bloody warfare. Bayonets and prosperity can keep them from each other's throats for a while. But prosperity always has severe downturns and bayonets never last for long, and when they go, so goes the love and tolerance. When the peasants start fighting over their basic differences in support of their tribe the elitist global assholes better head for high ground because if they're found they'll be decorating a light pole somewhere.

America was born in blood and America will die in blood. And good riddance to a multiracial shithouse.
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hatrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 07:03 PM
Response to Original message
1. Lovely!
Let's just hope he's not a schoolteacher.

Jesus wept.
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displacedtexan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
31. I think his real name is Bob Ewell... and right about now
he's accusing Tom Robinson of raping his daughter, Mayella.
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JohnLocke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #31
35. Somebody call Atticus!
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Scout Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #35
53. Atticus! Hey Atticus!
:hi:
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JohnLocke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #53
61. Hey, Scout!
:hi:
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I AM SPARTACUS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-28-04 06:11 AM
Response to Reply #53
72. Atticus is my bat...
he's hanging around here somewhere...

(seriously...yes, seriously...)
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Maat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 07:04 PM
Response to Original message
2. You're right, disturbing.
I guess that there's no room for my belief, which is that we are all one race. As an ex-social worker (social worker at heart), I let people define who they are, to me; they let me know, after a few minutes of conversation, how they want label themselves. And, as tests will show, we are all multiracial.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
3. Well, I guess that it's good there's new stuff to replace Janet's boob.
I just wonder why you're getting off on it. :shrug:
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. "Getting off on it"?
One of these days, Koko, your posts will make some fucking sense. Some day, maybe.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #9
19. ROFL, Pitt, it's okay........I'm very subtle. n/t
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #3
47. C'mon Koko. Why are you being like that towards WilliamPitt?
Edited on Fri Feb-27-04 09:49 PM by w4rma
We will hang together or we will hang seperately.
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Mick Knox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 07:06 PM
Response to Original message
4. I responded to this on your other thread.. in DU Lounge..
Edited on Fri Feb-27-04 07:09 PM by zwade
And the above, IMO.. verifies what I posted... The individual is one of the KKK types I discussed... which btw, is a discusting individual to say the least.
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POed_Ex_Repub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 07:07 PM
Response to Original message
5. Wow... that's scary
:scared:
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 07:07 PM
Response to Original message
6. It's hard to believe in this day & age such ignorance exists.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-28-04 05:07 AM
Response to Reply #6
70. Unfortunately, it is the undertow
of politics in the U.S. today.
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Carolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-28-04 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #6
86. no it isn't
hatred, ignorance, bigotry ... have just gone a tad more covert. Sadly it's the nature of man (in the species sense of the word) to want/need to feel superior to other beings, creatures, etc. We all fear the unknown or that which challenges our most strongly held beliefs and, admit it or not, are "conscious of kind," seeking naturally to be among people who are like ourselves.

The Ewells of this world exalt in their own kind and find extreme fault with those who disagree with them or challenge their beliefs. Same story since the beginning of time ... unlikely to end EVER.

That's why we all have to work so hard at peace and understanding, but damn people like Ewell make hating easy.
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everythingsxen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
7. Wow that brought a tear to my eye...
I haven't heard beautiful talk like that since Hitler...

He must hold a rank of some importance.. Grand Wizard perhaps?

That was sarcasm by the way...

:puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke:

I fear for jews, blacks and homosexuals in this country right now; at this time in America.

Sheesh.. what a psycho.
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distortionmarshall Donating Member (166 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #7
37. the diatriber isn't what i fear the most.....
there are relatively few like that (depending on what part of the country you're in, of course....)

the biggest reason minorities should fear is that the millions of "good" white people as a rule don't actually believe that such racism, etc. actually exists (see spanone's post immediately above for an example)

what's the phrase? something to the effect of: "the greatest thing the devil ever did was to convince people he didn't exist"

as any drunk knows, its *really* hard to solve a problem when you don't acknowledge its existence in the first place....

let em speak i say - evil and falsehood can't shrivel and die unless it sees the light of day....

can i get a layup? :)
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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-28-04 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #37
81. Hear! Hear!
As we walk through the civility of dealing with people in our daily lives, we forget that there is this ffoul, estering rot beneath us.

Most people recoil from overt racism, and exposing it to the light of day is the surest way to discredit it and those who promote it.

We'll never rid ourselves of racists, but we can dilute their effectiveness.







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MissB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
8. Charming freak
Really nice. Gee, he isn't at all a racist bigot, is he?


*off to read your article*
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Maeve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 07:13 PM
Response to Original message
10. Someday, this person is going to have two synapses fire at once
And the head will explode.
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Mikimouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 07:15 PM
Response to Original message
11. I cannot resist responding to this line in particular...
"I can just see a bunch of niggers trying to figure out how to build a pyramid."

Snarf! As did many early explorers and adventurers in Zimbabwe, this idiot takes for granted that the indigenous people of Africa could not possibly have constructed more complicated ventures. If, however, one looks at the demographics of the area around the estimated time of construction of the Great Zimbabwe, there are only Bantu-speaking people in the area (shudder, and they're BLACK, oh horror of horrors!). Who'da thunk it? Even as far back as Elizabeth Caton-Thompson (the first real archaeologist to study the Great Zimbabwe), the reality has been suggested that the indigenous people did indeed produce this very fine structure. So much for the morans of this who not only don't know international history, but are also completely and woefully ignorant of their own. (rant and sarcasm off)
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 07:16 PM
Response to Original message
12. Not an unusual sentiment in some KKK circles.
You just got mail from an Aryan Nation type white supremist. The really disturbing part is that the chapters of these organizations were once confined to rural pockets in the South and later the Northwest, but they have gone national. It is scary and these people are part of the gun lobby too.
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LeahMira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #12
48. What's scary...
... is that unless Will was nice and corrected the spelling, this person sounds reasonably educated, vocabulary and grammar wise. Aryan Nations types and such we tend to think of as people who maybe live in trailer parks or whatever but this person sounds like s/he might be somebody in middle management or local politics. OK, my stereotypes are hanging out. Still, it's unsettling to imagine that I may work with someone just like him or her.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #48
54. Not all of them are illiterate. They are just really bigoted and
Edited on Fri Feb-27-04 10:22 PM by Cleita
are blatant about it. They also wrap it in religion. The worst part is that they have an openly Hitler-like hatred of Jews and like Hitler fail to remember that Christianity is an offshoot of Judaism.
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Design8edGrouch Donating Member (78 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-28-04 07:24 AM
Response to Reply #48
74. With MS Word
A person can have very small grammatical skills and still type a message that appears to be written by a person with an education.
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Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #12
50. More than national, I think.
The hate groups in the US have discovered via the internet, some of the hate groups of the world. Stormfront comes to mind. I was on another forum once that was invaded by people from there.

There was a mix of the Nathan B Forrest crowd with the S.Africa apartheid crowd. Very scary to think of these 2 groups getting friendly.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. And that's not all
Check out the English language Pravda discussion board. The KKK types from the US of A are getting along swimmingly with Cossacks. Luckily, those of us who go more for human solidarity can use the same tools.
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mike1963 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
13. Well, it didn't take that knuckle-dragger long to get from brown to black
to nigger...

(as much as I hate to speculate on this, that note could have come from my neighborhood.)
:grr:
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #13
22. Are you from Florida?
That is where this came from.
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eaprez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
14. Oh My!
Everytime I come face to face with something as vile as this, it moves me to tears. I am moved to tears because although I am a caucasian, my two children are black and it really hurts that they have to go through life enduring the likes of this. The upside (if you can believe there is one)...is that this guy is open and up front about his narrow views unlike the thousands of people who smile in their faces yet refer to them as n*****'s behind their backs.
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DrWeird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
15. Those Aryan Nations types really like to whitewash history.

Here's a bust of Mentuhotep.

<>

One of many black Egyptian pharoahs.
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sallydallas124 Donating Member (234 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
16. Excuse me...
while I vomit.
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
17. Will, why are these people reading Truthout?!?!?!?!?
That to me is just bizarre. . .where did you do your last readership drive?
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. Smart money says
this got posted on some winger board. I'm expecting more.
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #21
27. You poor thing! Have fun then. . .great article btw n/t
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cmf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 07:19 PM
Response to Original message
18. Sad, but I'm not surprised you received this letter
You're right, we can't forget that there are people out there who think like this. I was reminded a couple weeks ago when someone littered my otherwise peaceful town with racist leaflets denouncing Black History Month. It's sad that there are people who are so hateful and misguided.
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
20. sounds like Matt Hale
did the letter come from a jail in Illinois - think that he (leader of the Church of the Creator) is going to be there for awhile after he was caught trying to hire a hitman to kill a judge.
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VOX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
23. Wish I could say that this is a prank, or that's it's dumb kids...
Or an isolated instance, or a case of insanity, but I can't. I can't square this away in my mind.

As reprehensible as the content of the message is, its manifestation doesn't surprise me. Sadly, I have read/seen far too much of this type of anonymous, mind-boggling, let-it-fly hatred over the past four years.

This is heartbreaking, Will.
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JohnOneillsMemory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #23
33. Common 'Master Race' thinking in the USA-Dominionism is winning.
I'm posting this synopsis everywhere because religion is being horrible abused to hijack our country under our noses.

'THE CHOSEN FEW' IS BEING MORPHED INTO 'THE MASTER RACE'
THE SAME WAY 'GET OSAMA' WAS MORPHED INTO 'GET SADDAM'! GET IT?

We are living in the closing minutes of a culture war that the American Taliban, called Dominionists, are winning.
The US Constitution (as people power) is being gutted and replaced with the Bible (as king power.)

This is the basic model of this religion-fueled fascism:
Supreme dictator smiting evil-doers wrathfully without legal restraints. Sound familar? Yup. Bush* as the American Ayatollah.

The inflammation of the old anti-semitic, anti-homosexual, anti-abortion, and anti-porn 'passions' is cover for a very real and documented campaign to make this country into a Hitlerian theocracy fueled by fundamentalist religious passions called 'Dominionism.'

'Might Makes Right' is WINNING over 'The Rule of Law.'
We are experiencing the return of Eugenics (elimination of the 'weak') in our government's policies that looks very much like the old systems of feudalism, slavery and holocaust.
Have you noticed the body-count in the last three years with no end in sight? And the 20-year campaign against the poor?


Georgie's brain is much worse than you think and he's being used for terrible purposes. Here's a British clinical psychologist's researched analysis of the boy king. He interviewed Georgie's family, friends and such and determined that he was abused as a child and developed an 'authoritarian personality,' the root of fascism! Read it and weep for him and us.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1033904,00.html
(So George, how do you feel about your mom and dad?)-CLICK

And this personality is being exploited to further the creation of a Hitlerian Theocracy called ‘Dominionism’, which has been going on in this country for the last thirty years. Read it and wonder what the hell we're in for next now that Eugenics is domestic policy and Imperialism is foreign policy.
http://www.axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/article_5160.shtml
(God Bless America, The Constitution is Dead)-CLICK

If you'd like to read the full speech of Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia back in the dark ages of January 2002 when he said that 'democracy interferes with the Divine Right of Kings and he's doing something about it,' read this and wonder what century we're living in and just what that Constitution was for, anyway.
http://www.prodeathpenalty.com/scalia.htm
(God's Justice and Ours)-CLICK

How can they get away with it when everyone seems to be pissed off at Georgie and we're supposed to be able to vote the bastard out of our White House? By fixing the electronic voting machines for 'the House.' Read this and decide which country to escape to this fall when Georgie is reinstalled like a 'Manchurian Candidate' to finish the job he was sent to do-eliminate democracy, create a police state, and conquer the world.
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0225-05.htm
(Diebold, Electonic Voting, and the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy)-CLICK

LATE BREAKING NEWS-FEB. 26 2004
Right now the Dominionists are introducing legislation to replace 'The People' as the authority in our democracy’s Constitution with ‘God’ in a bill called ‘The Constitution Restoration Act of 2004,’ exactly the opposite of what it really is. The legalities of the Christian Theocracy are being used to destroy our laws as if by the Taliban in Afghanistan.

This is not a test! It is absolutely real and happening right now while the media are busy covering gay marriage and Mel Gibson’s bloody crucifixion porn film, ‘The Passion of the Christ.’

“…on February 11 , 2004 Dominionist leaders in congress made their move; they introduced a bill in both houses called The Constitution Restoration Act of 2004. Among the sponsors of the bill are Rep. Robert Aderholt (Alabama), Rep. Michael Pence (Indiana), Sen. Richard Shelby of Alabama, Sen. Zell Miller (Georgia), Sen. Sam Brownback (Kansas), and Sen. Lindsey Graham (South Carolina).

The House version is H.R. 3799 and the Senate version is S. 2082. The bill limits the U.S. Supreme Court and federal courts to hear cases involving “expressions of religious faith by elected or appointed officials.”

Although the claim by its sponsors appears to be that the intention is to prevent the courts from hearing cases involving the Ten Commandments or a Nativity Scene in a public setting from being reviewed, the law is drawn broadly and expressly includes the acknowledgment of God as the sovereign source of law by an official in his capacity of executing his office.”

http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0402/S00172.htm
(The Constitution Restoration Act of 2004)-CLICK
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LeahMira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-28-04 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #33
78. We used to be an "E pluribus unum" country...
I'm posting this synopsis everywhere because religion is being horrible abused to hijack our country under our noses.

We used to claim, at least for publicity purposes, that people from all sorts of backgrounds and origins were united in their determination to live under the ideals and principles set forth in our Constitution. Who cared if you spoke English, Japanese or Swahili, if you believed in Jesus or Allah or nobody in particular, as long as you affirmed your loyalty to the country and to its laws and democratic institutions?

When did we change from an "E pluribus unum" country (from many, one) to an "In God we trust" country?
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Thistle42 Donating Member (38 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
24. Read your Truthout article...and thought it one of your best...
As a nurse who has worked in psychiatry, the person who wrote to you is very disturbed. It is my hope that he/she is in the minority in this country, but signs to the contrary keep appearing.

I didn't know you were THE WRPitt who I love to read on Truthout. Thank you, Thank you, Thank you for all the words of sanity and personal wisdom.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Thank you!
Welcome to DU! :)
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PatrickHenry Donating Member (11 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 07:32 PM
Response to Original message
25. Excellent article and one filled with the obvious truth. But, as your
detractor so effectively demonstrates, these people are oblivious to the truth and to history. There is no doubt in my mind that if Jesus were to walk amongst us today it would be the so called Christian Right, the KKK, the Freeper types, the neo-cons that would crucify him. They would call him a "communist", a "terrorist", and anti-God democRAT, a liberal traitor etc. ad nauseum. If he persisted in his "rabble-rousing" he would suffer the same fate a Paul Wellstone, a John O'Neill, a Martin Luther King or a RFK or JFK suffered. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that this is true.
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Birthmark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 07:43 PM
Response to Original message
28. You even got mentioned.
on my insignificant, little board. http://pub35.ezboard.com/bthepalaceoforange :)
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
29. Trying to tell these people that the human race started in Africa
according to DNA facts, wont work I guess.
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Raven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 07:50 PM
Response to Original message
30. Damn! Every time I think I can put the plans for the secret room away
you go and do it again! Sterno and canned goods and an underground hideout...that's what you'll get when you come visit me baby! :-) You go get 'em!
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
32. the problem your article refers to
Edited on Fri Feb-27-04 07:55 PM by iverglas


(and here my post is tangential to the point of the thread, I'm afraid)

... is by no means unique to Mel Gibson.

The whiteness of the cast, however, speaks to a decidedly un-Christian truth that lies near the heart of this republic. Simply put, nailing a white Jesus Christ to the cross on film will generate a far more emotional response from the American viewing public than the crucifixion of a savior who actually looks like he is from the Middle East.


One might just as easily ask why (and I and many others have indeed asked why) Missing, a film about the horrors of the right-wing ouster of Allende in Chile, and the USAmerican involvement in them, was about the Jack Lemmon character -- not a Chilean. His missing son was one of a handful of USAmericans directly affected by an event that left thousands of Chileans dead.

And why was Salvador about the James Woods character, a USAmerican journalist incidentally affected by the horrors of the right-wing violence in El Salvador, and not about the Salvadorans who were the direct victims of it?

And why was The Year of Living Dangerously (uh oh, Mel Gibson again) about the tribulations of an Australian journalist in Indonesia during the lead-up to the horrors of the Suharto régime, not about the Indonesians who suffered them?

And why was the horror of Custer's slaughter of the Cheyenne portrayed through the eyes of Dustin Hoffman's fake Native American in Little Big Man?

And why do the good aliens in Star Trek almost always look most like us, while the bad ones look most like aliens?

People do identify with people who look like them. And people who are 'different' are considered more likely to identify with representatives of the majority than vice versa. (Girls will read books about boys, but boys will not read books about girls, goes the conventional wisdom.)

A smart movie producer knows this. A smart movie producer might use it to convey a message -- people who would not have cared about a Chilean or a Salvadoran or an Indonesian or a Cheyenne might be more likely to identify with a white/European protagonist, and learn something about what non-white, non-European people suffer in the process -- and perhaps even care more about it, develop empathy for the "others" through the empathy they feel for one of their own who shared the others' suffering. On the other hand, it's also arguable that pandering to their limited ability to identify with the "other" by excluding the other from the centre of the picture reinforces their ethnocentrism.

I think the difference between Gibson's choice and the choice of Jack Lemmon as the protagonist in Missing might lie more in the purpose for which Gibson made his. Missing was arguably made in order to bring the "other" closer to the centre of the picture of the world that yer average USAmerican sees, to convey information and stimulate concern about that other's experiences and suffering. Gibson's choice wouldn't seem to have such a laudable reason. His choice looks, more arguably, just exclusionary.

(typo fixed)
.
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kodi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
34. so, who signed the letter? tim mcveigh?
what a fricking wack job.
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
36. What did you do to piss off Trent Lott, that he took the time to write?
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #36
41. Zingo NSMA!
Good one.
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KC21304 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 08:19 PM
Response to Original message
38. Did Mel's father use his real name ?
Keep up the good work.
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CatWoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 08:23 PM
Response to Original message
39. Moses was a Jew, who was raised by Pharoh's daughter
Pharoh, as well as his daughter, were Egyptian -- people of color.

So how did Moses blend in with the Egyptians if he wasn't also of color :shrug:
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LeahMira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-28-04 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #39
79. Color wasn't their criterion for identity.
Pharoh, as well as his daughter, were Egyptian -- people of color.
So how did Moses blend in with the Egyptians if he wasn't also of color


The Egyptians didn't pay attention to skin color back then. A person's "race" had to do with where they were from, not their skin color. It's not that they didn't notice it, but it just wasn't how they defined identity.
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Logansquare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-28-04 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #39
84. Egypt (like much of the ancient world) was a multi-racial society
Race as we know it is a 17th and 18th century western creation to establish a theory of "white" or Northern European superiority. Queen Tiye, the mother of the famous king Amenhotep IV, would clearly be called a black woman by today's racial categorization.
http://www.rocky.edu/~moakm/321AMARNA.html

In Egypt, kings and slaves came from all ethnic backgrounds--they acknowledged cultural background, or national identity, but race appears to have been irrelevant.
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boobooday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 08:24 PM
Response to Original message
40. Why is Mel obsessed with torture?
There is a torture scene in every one of his movies.

He likes torture. And he's gonna tell US about Jesus.

http://www.wgoeshome.com
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Postman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 08:42 PM
Response to Original message
42. let me guess, Jerry Falwell? Pat Robertson? George Bush?
obviously a product of Limbaugh/Hannity/Savage crowd.
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VelmaD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
43. I'm so glad you're posting these
and not just for the comedic value. As you're so fond of reminding all of us...DU is not America. It's good to be reminded that there are still people who think like that in the world.

This is what we're up against people.
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Political_Junkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
44. Whoa that's some scary guy!
On a side note Will, this is, by far, one of your best! Thanks
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 09:36 PM
Response to Original message
45. you got guts, William
I don't think I could handle getting hate mail like this. What a disgusting human being sent you this one.
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Cooley Hurd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 09:47 PM
Response to Original message
46. OMG! I read the email & immediately had a sinking feeling...
...that my crazy Uncle Paul finally got a computer.

But then I remembered... he's dead.

*Whew!*
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Blue_Chill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
49. Will post all the e-mails like Margaret Cho did.
People need to see just exactly who they are allied with on the Right Wing.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 10:17 PM
Response to Original message
52. Evidently he took even less science than I did
We actually share around 80% DNA with many other mammals and in the 90's with chimps and orangatangs. He is a real winner.
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arewethereyet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 10:27 PM
Response to Original message
55. does it bother anyone that this board is used in this way ?
Mr Pitt is using this board to acquire hits for hit site. Is this OK ?
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Mick Knox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh now now... Pitt sayeth.... nt
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #55
57. Since everyone does it, what's the problem?
Gotta defend William on this one.
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arewethereyet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #57
59. everyone ?
there were a few others and there may yet be some now but Mr PItt does it continually. Havn't seen Bev recently.

If this board it non-profit, things like this could endanger this standing.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #59
60. It's my understanding that it's not non-profit but the administrators
can address that themselves if they wish. There are many more besides Bev who post and sometimes promote their websites here. Also, Will was posting here long before he started writing for Truthout.

Please be fair in your criticism.
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eaprez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #59
66. and that would ....
....directly affect YOU how?
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Generic Other Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-28-04 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #59
87. Oh Piffle! When YOU have something significant to say
we will all want links to your stuff too.

Put your money where your mouth is.
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #55
62. got anything to back that up?
Why are you making such an unfounded allegation?
Do you think ie Beverly (of BBV) en Plaid Adder also care only about the number of hits to their sites, and don't make usefull contributions to DU?
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-28-04 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #55
69. It doesnt bother me
and I don't know why it should
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Speed8098 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-28-04 06:46 AM
Response to Reply #55
73. What a cheap shot
Will Pitt has been giving us the benefit of his wisdom and celebrity almost since the inception of DU.

Look back at what he has posted here. You should be ashamed of yourself.

I have not always agreed with Mr Pitt, and I have let him know. But the real truth is, we are lucky to have this man who spends his life trying to further the Democratic agenda.


Mr Pitt is using this board to acquire hits for hit site. Is this OK ?

What was the point of that comment anyway?
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Kamika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-28-04 07:29 AM
Response to Reply #55
75. aslong as it's something relevant I don't mind
I would mind othervise, so yes in a way I agree with you.
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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-28-04 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #55
80. It's OK by me...
he mentions Truthout once in a while, but he's in no way spamming the board.

I have no problem with people reminding us about alternative media, even if they work there.

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rfkrocks Donating Member (846 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 10:38 PM
Response to Original message
58. wasn't this guy just appointed to appellate court
Shrub's newest recess appointment.
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IronLionZion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 11:07 PM
Response to Original message
63. call up George, Dick, and Haley from the Klavern
it's time for a lynching, just like Jesus wanted.




(That's sarcasm)
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knight_of_the_star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 11:16 PM
Response to Original message
64. ...
Ummmm, doesn't this disprove itself sort of based on these paragraphs:

Jesus has been described as having a "swarthy" complexion, just as the original Jews in the Middle East. While he was described as having thick hair, most accounts don't even hint that he had a brillo pad look, if that's what you'd like people to believe. Dark hair and eyes were also Jewish traits. Jewishness is STRICTLY just a religion now. They've been very willingly ethnically cleansed by the Europeans over the centuries simply through simple inter-breeding with Whites.

and

Let me ask you why you are so quick to point out that Jesus was a brown-skinned person, and the Jewish actor who portrayed him is white, when you've never, ever made that observation before about Jews in general, namely that most of them look like white Europeans. In fact most of them are indistinguishable from white Europeans, many of them have fair hair and blue eyes. But you've never brought that up until now. Why not? Obviously it's because you're a coward, because you know they'd have your ass on a platter.

Aside from that logical inconsistency, the whole thing reeks of utter lacking of intellect of any kind. I need not say any more.

Oh, and if he wants to talk about America being a "multiracial shithouse", he's ignoring that the first people here were the Native Americans, and that whites brought a lot of BLACK slaves with them, not to mention all those Mexicans living in Spain's New World empire and the ones in what would later become California.

What a fool.
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Fridays Child Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 11:19 PM
Response to Original message
65. Yours truly, Bob Boudelang
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KC21304 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-28-04 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #65
77. LOL.
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lapislzi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-28-04 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #65
83. Grammer's too good fer Mr Boudelang
<spelling errors intentional>

And I did not yell "fire" in that the-ater, so stop saying that.
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 11:45 PM
Response to Original message
67. sounds like the same kinds of e-mail
the black student group at georgetown univ. were getting...it was on the local news tonight...

I've found the internet to be the perfect haven for closet racists I play a lot of online games, and words like nigger and jew are constantly tossed about like benign insults...how much you want to bet that writer lives or works in a place where he is surrounded by other races, and pretends everything is fine with them, never opening his mouth?

an assclown like him deserves what he gets...a bitter, petty, unloved life
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-04 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #67
68. It's not that far into the closet.
I have visited a few websites that would curl your toes. They also claim to be Christian as well.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-28-04 06:06 AM
Response to Original message
71. hmmm, it is odd,
that the writer had no knowledge of the dead sea scrolls and the Essenes and any of the ancient descriptions of Jesus and Mary as Blonde. He certainly would have approved of that description to make his point.Alas. Another oppertunity for bigotry lost. Such a shame.
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Ferretherder Donating Member (991 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-28-04 08:08 AM
Response to Original message
76. Great article, Mr. Pitt.
Edited on Sat Feb-28-04 08:10 AM by Ferretherder
Here in Louisiana, where I live, there are FAR too many people just like your narrow-minded e-mailer there. You know, you have to pause and think about this fact: these people didn't just pop into existence yesterday, they have been RIGHT THERE, beside you, day in and day out, all along...but give them a 'favorable' political climate in which to vomit their hate-filled rhetoric and, voila! - the true nature of the beast within begins to emerge.

Come November, I hope beyond hope that we usher in a new political age that will send these bigoted idiots back into hiding, and loathe to voice their 'true' feelings - waiting for the return of 'their' America.......but 'their' America never returns. And, finally, they, and their bigotry pass into history, a sorry 'footnote' to the tortured birth of the 'Real' America envisioned by the founders of this country.
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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-28-04 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
82. Good article, rotten reply.
I'll take some small issue with your article in that depictions of historic, including religious, characters have always been made to be attractive to their audiences. These depictions may not be "accurate" but they do play to the audience. I can't say that this artistic license is necessarily a bad thing. It's probably neutral, and it does help get the point across.

As you are already undoubtedly aware, your correspondent is nothing less than a flaming old-fashioned racist. The concept that "race" is empirically important in any significant way has long been discredited.

"Race" is an artificial construct that we have developed simply because we insist on listing and defining things. We are all "mixed-race" and if anything has held back civilization, that's not it.





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philosophie_en_rose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-28-04 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
85. Amen.
Edited on Sat Feb-28-04 12:08 PM by philosophie_en_rose
"Too many so-called Christians are blind to history, blind to the actions of our nation, blind to the hypocrisy of our so-called leaders, and the world bleeds because of it. Too many so-called Christians are people who would slaughter the savior to protect their power and position. Were Jesus alive today, he would probably nail himself to the cross to get away from all these people who act like barbarians in His name."
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Generic Other Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-28-04 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
88. I've encountered these race baiting letter writing fools myself
They come out of the woodwork like hungry termites periodically. Years ago I wrote a piece about being bi-racial. Angered some members of a white supremacist neo Nazi/Roman renaissance movement. I became the target of these "mongrel" haters. The tone of the letters I received was the same as the muddle of swill you received. They seem to reserve such attacks for people of color as they evidently believed you to be.

The letter I got "proved" that whites were superior to Asians in every way. It also concluded by blaming all the problems of the world on race mixing. And specifically blamed my parents.

Your letter ends with the reference to hanging people from lamp posts. This is a reference to the penalty that bi-racial individuals "mud people" would be subjected to in the New World Order. Straight out of the The Turner Diaries.

Guess you should be proud Will that you are such a race traitor that the guy couldn't tell whether you were one of us or not!

:)
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-28-04 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
89. "You're either a Black or a self-hating white man..."
OK, that was funny for anyone who reads any Pitt posts on DU.:evilgrin:

Keep up the good work, Mr. Pitt. By your good works we shall know you. Your enemies give us a clear picture too.

Now, I have to fire off some letters about school curriculum shortfalls in US schools. It appears there are some serious problems with history and biology classes.
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