I'm a non religious person that needs help with the bible

[rjx]

I know pretty much nothing about religion. I personally don't believe in religion, church, heaven, or any of that. I am an atheist.

I am not looking for a religion debate, I would just like to get some information if possible and I am hoping that I can look to my DU sisters and brothers for help.

As I stated I am an atheist, however; I would like to read the bible (new version and old version) so that I can educate myself about the bible and how people form their beliefs.

I am tiered of hearing contradiction of people that claim they are religious and believe, yet don't practice what they preach. People that use religion as an excuse to hate and kill humans. I hear about this all the time and while I don't doubt it at all, I would like to read for myself and learn so that I just don't form my opinion based on what others preach. I want first hand knowledge because I read it like many others.

What really has made me come to this point in my life is #1 the war, and #2 Gay marriages and other prejudices which have been going on for years and years.

I want to form my own opinion because I took the time to figure it out for myself.

Ok, here are where all of you come into play. I am not sure that I can fully understand the bible if I were to sit down and read the whole book. I would like to know if there are any books or sites on the Internet that breaks down the bible and makes it easy to understand clearly and accurately. I hear that there are translation errors in the english version about homosexuality. Basically I would like to learn about all the versions of the bible. I want to learn from a religion perspective what makes people believe what they do and help understand their background.

EXAMPLE:
Just like the gay marriage issue. I hear people mention the bible and that its wrong, then I hear how others say there is nothing in the bible that says its wrong etc. I personally believe that if two people love each-other, it shouldn't matter if they are the same sex or not. But I could not get into a debate like this if someone starts throwing religion around - cause I don't know jack about religion.

Maybe there is a site that shows something in the bible, then breaks it down to understand easier?

Thanks for any help.

[goddess40]

1. Don't bother, the bible will support what ever you want it to.

Sorry to be so negative but it is true.

[deakonblues2k]

2. Honest Opinion

As a believer, I appreciate your desire to be informed...Regardless of your final conclusion.

Given that you are looking for what is basically a text on the study of the bible, I believe the best place for you to look would be a Christian bookstore. If they do not have a study guide that is written from a secularist perspective, I feel confident that they would be able to point you to one in particular.

Good luck on your journey

[Mick Knox]

3. Heres one of the problems you are going to run into..

The bible can be virtually interpretted in any way.. it is not so clear as to be undebatable.. hence the numerous different religions created out of the same book.

I dont have a website for you.. but even if I did.. someone else could come up with a website which would disagree with the website I presented.. in other words.. there is no definative "cliff" notes. Its been debated forever. Each person will leave it with a different understanding.. or dismiss it all together.

I know this doesnt help you at all. but I wanted to toss that in.. anyone can reach into the bible and prove anything.. its the way the bible is. If I were you, I would read Mathew Mark Luke and John.. (first four books of the new testament) they are easy reads IMO... and will give you a view (each of them slightly different) of what christ said and his death. Then you can at least come to some conclusions as to whether you want to go further.

[Eric J in MN]

4. based on quotes which other people have posted

Based on quotes which other people have posted at DU in the past 24 hours, there are anti-gay verses in both the Old and New Testaments.

However, Jesus doesn't say anything anti-gay.


Jesus does say that a second-marriage is the equivalent of adultery, and so if people want to emphasize anti-gay verses, ask them why they re-married.

[deakonblues2k]

8. We have all sinned and come short of the glory of God

Do I believe Homosexuality...the act is a sin... Yes
do I believe that sex out of marriage is a sin....yes
do I believe lying is a sin....yes
do I believe breaking any law is a sin.....yes

Do I believe that I have the ability to live a sinless life....NO

Do I think I am better as a human than someone else who commits some other type of sin in God's eyes....No

We are all equally as condememd. It says in the Bible that all our righteousness is as filthy rags.

So to put it simply. It doesn't matter the sin you commit. so long as you are fogiven. And the only unforgivable sin is the rejection of his forgiveness.

[southerngirlwriter]

11. What exactly is the act of homosexuality?

Do you mean anal penetration? Straight couples do that all the time.

Do you mean oral sex? Straight couples do that all the time.

What do you mean??

Try to answer this question in a mature fashion so the mods won't delete....I am dying to hear this one.

Apologies for participating in a threadjacking, but I couldn't let this one go.

[southerngirlwriter]

5. I graduated from a hardcore fundamentalist school.....

.....and was indoctrinated in fundyism for years. I am a Christian, but a very liberal one, and I attend a liberal Christian church now (my senior pastor is a woman, which, trust me, is a VERY big deal in the South, LOL).

What you are proposing here is a noble but GARGANTUAN task.

I could tackle issues with you Biblically, one at a time, but without a base of Biblical knowledge, it will get complicated. You'll need to know the words, and then the words for the words, if that makes sense.

What you seem to be saying is that you want an understanding of Christianity and its central book, The Bible, to help you understand its effect on the culture. Is that a fair statement?

If so.....

Here is what I suggest: get a copy of the Bible. There are myriad versions, from the King James to the Living Bible to the Gender-inclusive Today's New International Version and on and on and on and on.

Any of them are fine, and someone bright enough to post here can certainly comprehend any of them, but I recommend the New American Standard version. It's a sound translation but uses plain English in places where other versions use complicated syntax.

Get a New American Standard version and read the gospel of John. It's the fourth book in the New Testament. Since you say you know nothing of the Bible, let me explain that there are two parts to the Christian Bible -- the Old Testament and the New Testament. The Old Testament is made up of 39 "books." The New Testament has 27 "books." The first four books of the New Testament are the Gospels. The fourth Gospel, that of John, is like the other three in that it focuses on the life of Jesus Christ, but his perspective is a little different. His eyewitness account differs from the others. Matthew, Mark, and Luke are called the synoptic, or "seeing together" Gospels, while John's account is slightly different.

Read the Gospel of John. That will give you a grasp of the main events in Jesus's life. Then post again, or PM me if you don't want to do this publicly, and we'll go from there.

[F.Gordon]

33. A scholar?

We should have a chat sometime.

My first question would be; why do you think the Gospel of John was the 4th book? It should have been the 1st. You yourself point out that you should start with this book.

Second question. Why did John avoid telling the complete story of his 3 years with Jesus?

Third question. Why did none of the Historians/Scholars of this time ever make any mention of Jesus?

Fourth question. Why did Pope Clement I, roughly 100 A.D., make no mention of the Gospels or make any reference to Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John?

You don't have to answer here. Maybe we should start a thread in a "meeting room".

[southerngirlwriter]

35. Sorry.

I don't have the time, energy, inclination, interest, or desire to do this.

I offered help to someone who, if I understood him correctly, wanted to learn a little something about Christianity in order to be more informed about a belief system that has a tremendous impact on the culture.

That would be a very easy thing for me to do, and somewhat enjoyable.

A "scholarly" debate would drain me of time and energy I can't afford to spare.

Thanks but no thanks. :)

[F.Gordon]

38. No problem

I understand. And you did give the original poster a good starting point.

Another day, per chance?

[southerngirlwriter]

39. Talk to me in the summer.

Wintertime depression is killing me now. In the middle of April or so I'll have three times the energy I have now.

If I make it that long. :grr:

[F.Gordon]

42. Well, hang in there. Take care.

I'm running at about 20% right now myself. Burned out. Toast. You missed your chance to kick my butt.

Peace.

[BigDaddyLove]

6. While I cannot help you with your Biblical quest.........

I would like to point out that the Gay Marriage issue at heart isn't really a religious issue at all, but rather a question of whether everyone deserves the same rights to Wed under our Constitution.

Further, if you find yourself in a discussion with someone who brings up the Bible as justification for why they are against it, you should just walk away because you are never going to get anywhere.

[thebaghwan]

7. Very interesting question. I think you ought to just read it yourself

and see what you make cof it. Afterall, any source that tells you how it should be interpreted could be just putting their spin on it. I would however, put greater emphasis on the New Testament and the Gospels. I have studied early Christianity from an academic perspective at the University of California, Santa Barbara Institute of Religiouus Studies in the 1970's. The epistles of Paul I would not put a lot of faith in. You also will need to decide if you want to study the gospels that did not get included in the Bible such as the gospel of Thomas. If you want to know about the books that did not make the cut for the bible check out either Newsweek or Time magazine as they had a good size article about it within the last 6 months or so.

[regnaD kciN]

9. Don't have a web site, but...

...specifically, if you're looking at "the gay issue," you might want to check out L. William Countryman's Dirt, Greed, and Sex, which, while written from a liberal viewpoint, goes over each of the texts cited by conservatives in detail.

[RobertSeattle]

10. There's always the skeptics bible

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/

[Mari333]

12. Read everything you can by Joseph Campbell

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=joseph+campbell

[lastknowngood]

13. If you want to understand the basis and foundation of religions

around the world and throughout time either read Joseph Campbell's
The Power of Myth or at least watch the Bill Moyer interview of Joseph Campbell with the same title. He is the most lucid and truly spiritual interpretation of religions I know of. All religions are based on the same concepts and are manipulated by culture. If you want to get a overview of this principle again read his wonderful book The Hero with a Thousand Faces. The Dali Llama has some wonderful writings also. Religion and spirituality are not the same.

[aquart]

19. NO! Not Campbell!

I know, he seems so user friendly.

And Bill Moyer approves.

But I can't listen to ten minutes of his fluff without scrawling simplistic simplistic simplist..., oh, no, that's just plain wrong! wherever I'm sitting at the time.

[Mari333]

22. Why not Campbell? Hes great and a scholar, and a fabulous

student of mythological metaphor. Between him, Maritas Gimbutas, and Barbara Walker, one can delve deeply into religious symbolism and metaphor better then any people I have read..
and they do it logically and professionally, as academic scholars, citing archeoanthropological history and find correlations amongst all theology from neolithic to modern day religion.

[Cleita]

27. I agree. He makes it accessible. I love Gimbutas too.

He gives you a place to jump off of if you want to delve deeper, kinda like Carl Sagan did for Astronomy.

[sangha]

51. If you think Campbell is fluff

then read The Masks of God. It's a four book set, and it will take you several reads to understand half of it. But each time you read, you will learn a lot

[gmoney]

14. Ned Flanders sums it up

"Why me, Lord? Where have I gone wrong? I've always been nice to people! I don't drink or dance or swear! I've even kept kosher, just to be on the safe side. I've done everything the Bible says; even the stuff that contradicts the other stuff! What more could I do?"

There are courses in college that teach the Bible as literature... probably a textbook available for that.

Or maybe just "The Bible for Dummies" -- not to imply that you're a dummy.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0764552961/

Cliff's Notes? Classic Comics Edition?

[Union Thug]

15. Yeah, don't bother...

...these fantasy land half-wits do not listen to reason. Otherwise, how is it possible to believe in the big daddy in the sky and salvation on a stick?

Who the hell cares what the bible says about anything, anyway? Screw 'em.

Atheist and proud...

Will

[aquart]

16. You do not want to do that.

The whole point of translating the Bible into English is that YOU read it, YOU decide what it says.

Anyone who breaks it down for you is breaking it down HIS way, with HIS agenda.

What do you mean, btw, new version and old version? New and old testaments? They are not different versions of each other. They are totally different and cover different times and matters. Oy. Get a modern language version and just start reading.

Take note that the Bible was compiled from a number of different sources. Sometimes it will seem that the same story is being told several times, each with a different slant. That's because that's exactly what's happening.

Also, keep in mind, the ten commandments, the direct from God ones, do NOT mention gay marriage. Or sodomy. All the commandments and prohibitions are on the Jewish side of the Bible. The Christian fundies have no trouble singling out sodomy passages to enforce, at the same time as they're eating bacon and eggs with a big glass of milk. Selective enforcement. Big time.

[TacticalPeek]

41. They cut their hair with metal, too.

Bwaahahahahah! Doomed.

Really, rjx, you set yourself a task of Sisyphean proportions.

Perhaps begin with a focus on just those passages about your target interests. Then, to be rigorous, you should research how and when those passages became 'official', i.e., which committee met when to include/exclude/edit what, and why. That will give you a leg up on most fundies, though they are likely not to realize it. You would need to read multiple 'commentaries' to get a feel for what peoples' "filters" are, which is largely where the problems arise. But pretty soon, you're in "inside baseball" land, and the returns diminish, unless you are ever tasked with talking David Koresh out of his hole (was that scene not the height of hilarity?)

But the whole Bible is worth a read, too. The King James version is nice word smithing, English, and probably effected Western Civilization the most, since the others came in in the last fifty or sixty years or so. Some of it is as boring as watching paint dry, but some of is like literature.

One of the best evangelists I ever saw once began his sermon by lifting the Bible from the lectern and throwing it across the choir loft. Quite an attention getter. The congregation was the sort that was taught that if you ever accidentally drop the book, you should pick it up and kiss it. He said his point was that we get too hung up on some things, to the point that they get in the way, in between us and God. Then he proceeded to preach a very effective sermon. (But keep in mind the saying that it is permissible to strike the Buddha, but first you must grow a golden fist.)

[Eric J in MN]

17. The Bible Quiz at the Betty Bowers website

The Bible Quiz at the Betty Bowers website highlights certain bibical verses which may show that parts of the bible don't meet our ideals of tolerance.

The Betty Bowers website is satirical, but The Bible Quiz makes its point in a relatively straightforward way.


http://www.bettybowers.com/bible.html

[pop goes the weasel]

18. You only need the one book

I'm also an atheist, but one who used to be a Christian. A fundamentalist, even.

There are so many different interpretations of biblical text that you will be better off just reading the Bible, any version, on your own. Read it yourself first, then start reading the different interpretative texts. You got your Calvinists commentaries, your Catholic commentaries, your Jesus Seminar commentaries, etc., etc., etc.

What you will really find out is that the believers don't know jack either. They latch onto what seems important to them, and hold onto it as if they had immortal souls that depend upon it. And thus, some of them make a big deal of the "abomination" of homosexuality, but never think twice about mixing their fibers. The believers have killed each other over such odd notions as whether a cracker turns into Jesus before or after it is swallowed or whether it turns into Jesus at all, and if you think there is an answer to such theological questions in the Bible, you are in for a mighty disappointment. The roots of belief are as much in tradition and social environment as they are in scripture. In fact, it is tradition and social environment that shapes the interpretation of scripture. Understanding of scripture itself is completely dependent on those factors.

Good luck reading the Bible. I think you will find it to be, as Salam Pax describes the Koran, "a very boring novel."

[daveskilt]

20. kind of a futile endeavour

If the bible were unambiguous there would only be one judeo-christian religion. look, the bible is a collection of writings edited, added to, taken away from, translated through multiple languages (think Engrish, or babel fish korean) and for the thousands of years before photocopiers rewritten by hand or passed on by word of mouth. Accuracy? not likely. There are always those who claim God kept it just right and nothing changed. what happened to all the women prophets the pope had removed to spite queen lizzy? why is the apostle james called johannes in the german version that much of the king JAMES version was translated from?

It has been changed for political reasons so many times it no longer has any value as a definitive or authoritative word on anything. the only value that the bible has (and I believe this is very valuable) is in its personal and spiritual worth. reading it from the perspective of an open minded inquiry into the nature of god - believing that if there is such a being a human will get some kind of spiritual guidance through attempting to learn. the broad concepts in the bible are the beginnings for a path to some spiritual enlightenment. I am a bit religious and the bible has not helped nearly as often with what it says but with what I felt reading it.

[caledesi]

21. Check this site out

The Skeptics Annotated Bible:
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/

[smirkymonkey]

37. Good site!!

Just after browsing through some of it, I am stunned at how offensive and hateful much of it is.

I can't believe anyone takes this stuff seriously.

[Cleita]

23. I approach the Bible from an anthropological point of view.

I study it as the stories of a particular group of people, much as you would Greek mythology or Greek historians like Herodotus or Thucydides. That means you just don't read the words, but you try to find background, like other writings of that period, archaeological studies, the assessment of scholars who write about those things. I love Joseph Campbell myself because he makes religion as a whole very accessible historically.

Also, start with a translation in modern English. Once you are familiar with it you might want to read the more archaic English versions or even the original writings in Hebrew, Greek, Latin and other less known languages. It takes a lot of time so think about how far you want to delve into this.

[arewethereyet]

24. here's the real deal

if you look at anything other than the Bible itself, you're going to get spun. Who else would do such a guide unless they had an agenda ?

Re: versions, there is no version that is not spun. Pick one, one that fits your personal reading and go with that. NIV is not bad as a general purpose read.

Once you've read it, THEN there are any nmber of sites that do comparitive research between versions. Mark any passages taht seem to be worthy of this and resaerch them as you go or afterward.

Regarding same sex marriage, this is not purely a Christian issue. You will not see it specifically addressed in any Bible. If thats your goal save yourself the time. You'll see that homosexuality is considered wrong and that all marriage is traditional in nature.

I applaud you wanting to judge for yourself. Its really the only way.

[mike1963]

25. Good luck. I have eleven bibles (yes, have pretty much read them all),

and they vary considerably in many areas. I was required to take several courses at Tulsa University back in the 60s, as it was endowed at the time by a religious group (even in the college of engineering)...
but I found it both interesting and fascinating. And as it happens, I recently discovered the bible I was required to purchase for my courses (O&P as it was called, Origins & Principles of Christianity)...and I have it on my desk as I type. It is "The Complete Bible, an American Translation", University of Chicago Press, OT translated by J. Powers Smith and a group of scholars, and the NT translated by Edgar Goodspeed.
It's a fairly easy read and it includes the Apocrypha, which most contemporary christians don't want to think much about.

The strange (or maybe not so strange) thing is that the more I studied these various texts, the more I realized they were essentially a collection of stories once relegated to oral relation around campfires by goat-herders a couple thousand years ago.

You want to 'prove' it is sinful to eat shrimp? It's in there. You want to own slaves? Approved! Kill everyone in a foreign land? Yep, it has directions on just how to do it (and what to do with the widows from the approved genocide.)

The thing is, almost any agenda you can imagine can be justified by reference to a few bits of scripture. Some killing is perfectly okay, some is bad. Some adultery is just fine and dandy, but some other kinds aren't. Well, the list goes on and on...you really ought to read it for yourself and whichever version (some people will tell you that anything other than the King James Version is bogus/Satanic, etc.) you can get your hands on. Do your own evaluation. That's my best advice.

Enough fer now...
Good luck to you.

[DieboldMustDie]

26. There are 10 Bible translations...

and related materials at http://unbound.biola.edu&query=&script=%2Fhelp%2Flink%5Fdirectory%2Easp">The Unbound Bible.

[dae]

28. www.sojo.net is a very socially liberal christian group called

Sojourners and well worth the visit. Good luck.:)

[rjx]

29. Thank you everyone

Wow, thanks for all the comments, I appreciate the feedback.
I saved the link to this discussion in my computer. I need to go to work now (dreaded graveyard shift) and when I return I will re-read all the responses here and post any comments or questions I might have.

Thanks everyone :)

[Snow]

30. Isaac Asimov wrote an entertaining guide to the bible

that gives you a lot of what was going on at the time, so you're not sort of looking at it in isolation. It's readable and pretty well done. The man was brilliant, of course, and an atheist of, I think, jewish ethnicity.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/051734582X/qid=1077938992/sr=1-5/ref=sr_1_5/102-2487958-0735330?v=glance&s=books

[Cleita]

32. I remember reading it a long time ago.

It was very well done and being raised a Jew he approaches it that way rather than from a Christian POV. It puts a lot of the NT in perspective from the Jewish POV.

[Az]

31. www.skepticsannotatedbible.com

Its been mentioned above already. But it warrants repeating. Its a good resource for a critical examination of the bible. And yes, keep in mind it is a skeptical review of the bible.

[pacifictiger]

34. I was forced into regular bible study

in boarding school during my teens and never looked at it again until years later. I later picked it up and read it cover to cover so I would be able to counter some of the more ridiculous passages quoted out of context by some of the fundamentalist bornagains. Some of them can behave quite cultish. The King James is written in the language of that day and can be somewhat tough going if you are unfamiliar with it. Some of the more modern translations are laid out with sort of paragraph headings that give an essence of what that particular section is about. The bible fundamentally documents the history of the jewish people. It deals with historical events, laws that governed their society, and prophecy. One can find almost anything to put forth any point of view if one looks.
Thomas Jefferson was so uncomfortable with the parts that had nebulous supernatural overtones that he compiled from the new testament, the life and teachings of Jesus in a chronological order. If you are interested, it is worth reading and is available today as "The Jefferson Bible" (amazon.com has it.) It documents the actual teachings of jesus without the extraneous info written by others.

The quote that I love and is rarely mentioned is Jesus' full response to the question "Master, which is the great commandment in the law?" (matthew 22: 36-40) He begins with the well known "Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord the God with all thy heart and with all thy soul and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment."
It is followed by "And the second is like unto it. Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself." They neglect to add the next passage - "On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."
In other words, in spiritual terms, the most important thing from the bible is to recognize that you are to love and honor whatever power created the universe above all else (behave as if the god in all nature/life mattered), and love and treat other humans as you would like to be loved and treated.
Unfortunately the bible has been twisted by power hungry leaders over the centuries to serve as a tool for fear based control rather than unconditional love.
For instance, the hot issue of the day is homosexuality and the bible. How they are twisting that issue is outrageous (and I am a married hetero female.) Most often they reference leviticus from the old testament which mentions all sorts of dos and donts to do with everyday jewish life, and mentions stoning as a punishment for failing to follow the "law." It is interesting today that most of those laws have gone by the wayside as civilization has advanced, and yet, homosexuality is still conveniently chosen as the one on that list to be still condemned as the ultimate sin, while hetero adultery is given a wink and a nod pass. Jesus mentioned adultery, he did not mention homosexuality, although I have to wonder if he was not referring to gays when he says "for there are some eunuchs which were so born from their mother's womb." Also, science now shows as well, that homosexuality is not that uncommon in the animal kingom.

[kichigai usagi]

36. Don't bother..

unless you can find an original copy written in Arameic and sanscrit, otherwise it's just the latest assholes personal story book.

For more interesting reading, look into books written by Sir Laurence Gardner...such as Bloodline of the holy grail and Genisis of the grail kings.

Befor you can even begin to understand the ascenin ramblings of scripture, you need to understand the life styles and ancient hebrew customs of their times.

Pass the wine and slice up the Yak cheese!!


Yum, Yum!!

[Dob Bole]

40. I got the stuff you need...here's a guide from gay evangelicals

which in the course of it pretty much describes the opposing view:

http://www.ecwr.org/faqecwr.htm

For a basic summary of Evangelical Christian belief:
http://www.billygraham.org/believe/stepsToPeace.asp

And for a comparison of world religions or different denominations:
http://www.religioustolerance.org

Finally, to read different versions of the Bible for free:
http://www.gospelcom.net/bible/

Warning: There is a veritable FDR-style alphabet soup of versions of the Bible. Basic abbreviations:
KJV-King James Version-1611 version translated in Elizabethan english (NKJV=newKJV)
NIV-New International Version
Message-modern translation into commonly used language, directly from Hebrew and ancient Greek. Pretty good if you are a Bible Noob.

Hope this helps. If you need more stuff, or want to ask any questions, feel free to PM me.

Dob Bole

[Snow]

43. I don't think I saw this mentioned, & it's worth saying...the bible isn't

a book. It's a collection, picked & chosen by religious leaders over the centuries. Don't try approaching it like a unified account; you'll go nuts. There're a lot of historical inaccuracies & mismatches - for example, the torah is the only place to report the exile in egypt of the israelites - no other source notes it. So approach it for what it is, a sort of cultural, this-is-what-we-this-people-are-about, with sermons and metaphorical bits of parables. It's a real hodge-podge, and while we separate the jewish & christian books, christianity is a branch of judaism (which, outside the US, has a ton of branches, and even more back in that day). So there's a lot of the same feel to the christian books and letters as to the jewish books. Maybe the christian books don't have so much in the way of rules or family trees. But there's all those letters and pointed stories. Strange stuff, altogether.

[troublemaker]

44. Translation Recommendation

If you want to argue with people the King James Bible is the only source because most "bible believing" American Christians consider it the actual word of God. (The translation has been deemed divinely inspired. Here's a puzzler... that must mean that where obvious mistranslations exist in King James the errors are preferable to the original text, being a later word of God. Believers ought to base their entire religion on those errors... those little discrepancies are God's latest direct words to man.)

For a beautiful read look for Richmond Lattimore's translation of the Gospels. Probably out of print, but maybe not. He's best know for his Iliad and Odyssey translations so you feel like you're getting a true translation without any doctrinal bias.

[legin]

45. I think this was the one I read

but it was a few years and I get mixed up. It wasn't too painful a read. It was recomended in the further reading bit of the Encylopedia Britanica on Israel

History of Israel, AUTHOR: John Bright
Covers Old Testament
Now in 4th edition

http://www.bookfinder.us/review6/0664220681.html

Possibly if you are feeling very, very keen, ANET (Ancient Near East Texts with relation to the Bible)

http://pup.princeton.edu/titles/1754.html

Never seen the book but it was mentioned in the biblography section of my world history book i read. Only cost you $130, LOL. It's just collection of any texts from around the time of the early Bible. Probably very, very, very, very, very keen that should read.

[legin]

46. There is some textual analysis of the four gospels

3 of them are related (probably John is the odd one out) and there is some kind of underlying document called Q (?). No idea where I read, or indeed why, but it was fun.

[Snow]

48. I've got a copy of Q -

it's the result of a project that's been going on for decades. The idea is that there was an original collection of Jesus' sayings & bio stuff, that preceded mark, matthew & luke. so scholars combed through, looking for commonalities, and with the arrival of really good text analysis software the work has really progressed, and they actually published. Picked up my copy at a Quaker bookstore. Very small book, very simple. And it doesn't include a lot of what Jesus supposedly said that's not supported by all the sources. Interesting what got dropped. I believe, although I'm not certain, that they used Thomas as well as the three mainline gospels.

[legin]

49. Thanks Snow

interesting :-)

[DoYouEverWonder]

47. Here's a good site for studying the Bibile

http://bible.gospelcom.net/

You can search on phrases and key words. You can pick from over 15 versions and you can even compare versions side by side.

I refer to this site frequently, especially when arguing with fundies on line (a sick pasttime of mine). Hope this helps you find what you were looking for.

[strategery blunder]

50. I became a nonfundie Christian a few years ago

and did not have access to church services until fall of last year. My ONLY understanding of Christianity came fron the Bible itself. (In case you're wondering what translation I use, it's the NIV.)

Most of the hatemongering stuff is in the Old Testament (There are a few exceptions floating around, but you won't find gaybashing in the NT, for example.)

The fundies love books like Leviticus and Deuteronomy because that is where most of the hatemongering is. Keep in mind that at this period in history the Israelites were surrounded by people that did not like them.

The NT is like an amendment to the Bible; its teachings about love (in my view anyway) supercede much of Leviticus and Deuteronomy. The most concentrated teachings of Jesus can be found in the four Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John). These teachings are a moderation of the more strict versions of Biblical law in the OT.

For an (incomplete) overview of theology of the early church, look at Acts and Romans. They talk about the first fundies, but the fundies of 1900 years ago are NOT the fundies of today. (Back then, they were still trying to BECOME a church.)

Even the NT will have some things that many would disagree with today but keep in mind that it was plenty radical/progressive for its time.

I do not claim to be an expert; I just wanted to offer my humble suggestions. Any theologians out there--please have mercy upon my poor soul:D

[vetwife]

52. Bible Gateway on the internet

Any version of the bible you want is there.
There is a difference between faith and religion.
Choosing not to believe is a religion.
I admire what you are doing. All people have to seek
and look for themselves.

[Kimber Scott]

53. "The Book" - the Bible in Plain English

I read this years ago, basically for the same reason you want to. I wanted to see if it said what people said it says. The Bible is one of those books, like someone said earlier, that can say whatever you think it says, but it is an interesting read.

"The Book"

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0842332847/qid=1077951053//ref=pd_ka_1/102-2797754-9700102?v=glance&s=books&n=507846


As an interesting note on homosexuality in the Bible: Many scholars believe King David was in love with Jonathan, son of Saul. A Google search on King David and homosexuality will yield up some interesting results.

[Snow]

55. But the King James version was in plain English!

at the time it was written, of course, and that's the point. It was meant to be readable by the ordinary people, and if that's no longer the case, then why use it?

By the way, speaking of awful old testament stories, how about the one where one of the gloom-and-doom prophets, I'm pretty sure it's Elisha, is coming into a village. Some village urchins are hanging around the woods outside the town, see Elisha, and make fun of him for being bald. Elisha gets pissed, asks The Lord to do something bad to the kids. So a bear jumps out of the bushes and kills the kids. Elisha feels satisfied - them dang kids aren't gonna call The Lord's prophet names anymore, by golly!

[Kimber Scott]

56. LOL! The ones that always freaked me out

were Abraham's attempted sacrifice of Isaac and the one where the guys went into the oven but came out unburned. I can't think of the exact story, but once I thought my life would be better if I got "religion," namely Christianity, and I started going to church in Germany. (I was in the Army and it was an American installation church. I can't remember which denomination.) Anyway, for some strange reason they thought I could teach Sunday school! They gave me the lesson plan and I was to teach the kids about these guys that walked into an oven and didn't get burned. I couldn't do it. I looked at the lady who gave me the lesson sheets and said, "I don't believe this and I can't teach anybody anything I don't believe in myself." She looked shocked, but not that shocked. Like, maybe she didn't believe it either. That's neither here, nor there, but for some reason that story freaked me out. Maybe because I'm afraid of fire! Or, it could have been I thought how strange and wrong it was to teach children such a fairy tale as if it were true. On the one hand you teach them not to touch the stove, or they'll get burned, and on the other you teach them "if you have enough faith" you can play with fire and not get burned. Man, talk about fostering psychosis!

[CityZen-X]

54. RJX Try This

Get a NIV bible (New International Version) along side with Isac Asimov's "Interpretation of the Bible."
Also read "Secrets of Mount Sinai" (can't recall the author) this book chronicle's the discovery of the "Codex Sinaiticus," it contains two gospels that have been omitted and explains the contents of this codex which maybe the oldest record of the bible put to papyrus by the scribes of Constantine The Great. Codex Sinaiticus is now in the possession of a museum in England, There are two other codex, one is Codex Vaticanus, and another which it's title escapes me right now.
For a mind opener read "Ishmael" by Daniel Quinn.
Yashua was way cool. Sh-anti.

[Ysabel]

57. Help please...!

I've lost my way. Where am I...?

Is this DU...???

[Malva Zebrina]

58. Everyone should be familiar with the bible

and knowledgeable about what is contained therein,especially in this country where it seems Christians are ever so slowly infringing on the separation of church and state freedoms we all enjoy.

First of all, you can defend your atheism so much better when attacked by believers if you know the bible better than they, and second, how can y ou make a decision on atheism, agnosticism or any other if you do not know a thing about the bible or any other book.

I found this site to be helpful

http://atheism.about.com/

Austin Cline writes some good articles and there are good articles on that site that deal with the bible. The forums are also interesting with many intelligent and knowledgable posters there.

[struggle4progress]

59. Bible

Conservatives love to thunder about Sodom and Gomorrah. Get a Concordance (i.e. book that indexes where certain phrases occur). Look up Sodom and Gomorrah. Read the verses in context. Almost every denunciation of Sodom and Gomorrah is a denunciation of injustice or of inaction in the face of injustice.

If you need to counter the "Can't pick and choose from the Holy Scripture" crowd, familarize yourself with the laws in Leviticus, which requires stoning nonvirgin brides, executing disobedient children, etc. If we start following "Biblical law" ...

For exhaustive info on original texts and various translations, go to a good library and look at the "Anchor Bible" (huge multivolume scholarly effort to obtain reliable manuscript: a thousand pages or so for each book)

Need alternate interpretations? Twenty years back, important things were happening in Liberation Theology: a number of writers excavated a fair amount of "preferential option for the poor and oppressed" stuff from Catholic social teachings. Rightwingers shrieked because it often referenced Marx's socioeconomic analysis (and, of course, an older tradition: "What does the Lord thy G*d require of thee? To love peace and to justice"). Maryknoll published a lot of this stuff; again a good library should have some of it.

For something sex-positive, look at the Song of Songs, attributed to the hardcore polygamist King Solomon. This has been an interpretative problem since, well, since forever, sometimes solved by recasting all the sensuality as a devote metaphor; could this be the opening for an enjoyable exploration of the question: "Is religious experience really like a good lay?"