Okay, I'm Catholic and I believe that gays should be allowed to marry

[kanrok]

Am I going to hell?

[Pale Blue Dot]

1. My wife feels the same.

And she is the most moral person I know. Don't worry about it.

[mykpart]

2. I'm Catholic too and feel the same way.

Seems to me that with AIDS and all, it just makes sense to encourage everyone to have committed, monogamous relationships.

[dflprincess]

3. If you are, then so am I

I also believe people should be able to divorce and remarry, am prochoice, believe in birth control, think it's time to let priests marry and that it's time to ordain women.

I am doomed.

[slinkerwink]

4. I'm a lapsed catholic, and gays should be allowed to marry!

[mike1963]

5. Make sure your asbestos underwear doesn't have any holes in it.

:D
:evilgrin:

[rfkrocks]

6. Going to hell in a handbasket

what do you think Christ taught..something like love your neighbor as yourself?

[BigDaddyLove]

7. Is it possible to believe in the latter while still being the former?

?

Doesn't going against the Church's teaching somehow disqualify you from claiming true allegiance?

[eaprez]

14. I Don't Think

...it disqualifies one...but the better question would be "why would you continue to be a member of a church if you don't buy into its teachings?"

[kanrok]

17. Depends on who you talk to

I continue to attend church weekly and engage in communion regularly. I believe in a women's right to choose and that priests should be allowed to marry. If I end up in hell, I'll go there with a clear conscience.

[BigDaddyLove]

22. Without meaning to draw you into a discussion of why you......

believe what you do; as suggested in post #14, I am sort of curious as to why would you want to belong to a particular denomination if in fact you find yourself at odds with it's beliefs?

[BootinUp]

26. Is there any denomination

that one is completely in concert with?

That is the dilemna I have been faced with for 20 some years now.

[BigDaddyLove]

31. I wish I knew........

but (extremely limited knowledge about Catholicism warning), it seems to me that being Catholic asks one to adhere to a fairly stringent set of dogmatic teachings and to place a great deal of faith in what is taught by the Church....there are other easier paths to follow.

[kanrok]

27. There are many justifications

But primarily, it's because I find that I agree generally, in fact, mostly, with it's teachings. Just like political leanings, I don't think it's required to buy into every aspect of a political party's platform and I can still support a party (for instance, I'm not for blanket legalization of illicit drugs, and I believe that the death penalty is appropriate in some instances and I remain vehemently Democrat). Thanks for asking.

[BigDaddyLove]

32. Fair enough......

Thanks for replying.

[BootinUp]

8. I was going to warn you based on the heading

Your ARE going to hell! LOL.

I don't know how old you are, or how strong your beliefs are in the dogmas of the catholic church. I was raised catholic, but have lost the feeling that my religion is the only RIGHT one, and instead, I have tried to see the bigger picture. God does not want people to suffer, he does not want us to read words written 2000 years ago without using our imagination and intelligence to interpret those words.

from the sermon on the mount:

1And seeing the multitudes, He went up on a mountain, and when He was seated His disciples came to Him. 2Then He opened His mouth and taught them, saying:


3"Blessed are the poor in spirit,
For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4Blessed are those who mourn,
For they shall be comforted.
5Blessed are the meek,
For they shall inherit the earth.

6Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
For they shall be filled.
7Blessed are the merciful,
For they shall obtain mercy.
8Blessed are the pure in heart,
For they shall see God.
9Blessed are the peacemakers,
For they shall be called sons of God.
10Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake,
For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

11"Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake. 12Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.


Believers Are Salt and Light
13 "You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt loses its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? It is then good for nothing but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot by men.
14"You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden. 15Nor do they light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house. 16Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.



You are not going to hell, certainly not for the reason you asked.

:)

[kanrok]

10. Thanks Jim

Thoughtful post. As are the others.

[Auntie Bush]

21. 16

"9Blessed are the peacemakers,
For they shall be called sons of God."

16 Blessed are the warmongers
For they shall be called sons of bitches.

[BootinUp]

24. Do we just raise our hand to nominate additions?

*raises hand*

[Mick Knox]

9. Mind your own temple right?

Its not for you to worry about others. It's not our place. We are nothing. We can all be assured the Bible says nothing about the US gov issuing a piece of paper which ensures gov benefits to any specific couple.

[Dob Bole]

13. Haha...I'll remember that phrase nt

[sushi]

11. I do too

It's ridiculous to force a person to marry one of the opposite sex or stay single, if he or she is loves one of the same sex. So many "normal" marriages break down. I think if people have to go through a lot of trouble to marry, like gays, it will probably last (longer) because they're more committed.

I really think the time will come when marriages between gays will be accepted.

[Cleita]

12. If you do a lot of gay religious are going to be there with you.

Yes, I had lesbian nuns in school. No I didn't have sex with them, but they are the women who taught me to be an independent woman, a pre-feminist if you will back in the fifties. Whether they had love liasons with other nuns I don't know.

The same goes for the priests and brothers. My stepdaughter told me that it was an open secret that the brothers who taught at her High School were all gay. I think the clerics of the Church over the ages have been predominantly gay, because it was a place they could live a productive life without having to marry and produce children. I'm sure many took their vow of celibacy seriously and like all of us probably had lapses.

MHO after a lot of Catholic school.

[prodigal_green]

15. me too

see you there. It should be quite a party!

[kanrok]

19. I'll bring the wine.

n/t

[alcuno]

16. We are responsible for ourselves.

I'm Catholic and believe that marriage is a sacrament in the Church. Marriage outside of the Church is just a government function and doesn't have a whole lot of meaning for me.

[mykpart]

18. I'd like to echo the sentiment expressed by James Carville

the other night. When homosexuals marry, it has no effect whatsoever on my marriage.

[pacifictiger]

20. hell is in the eye

of the beholder.
One of my favorite quotes: Religious people are afraid of hell .... spiritual people have already been there.

[LiberalFighter]

23. It doesn't mean that you should marry someone of the same sex

Besides the government should not be telling churches who they can or can't marry.

At the same time churches should not be telling the government that everyone must marry of the opposite sex according to their religion.

Currently, the government does not require all marriages to be performed by a member of the clergy, in a church or other religious requirement. Marriages can be performed outside the church.

In some countries marriages must be peformed by the government first and then if they want by the church.

[Blue_Chill]

25. Jesus is the only way to heaven right?

Well I happen to think that's a clue and a warning. IMHO he is telling everyone that his teachings are the way, and by saying so not those that preach hate.

So while I can't be certain I would say your stance of gays follows the "let he without sin..." teaching very well.

[mdmc]

28. No. But if you did end up there, it would only feel like an eternity

And its a dry heat! :~)

[IronLionZion]

29. I'll join you in hell

I already broke my Lent sacrifice today. I was just sooooo hungry.

Not all Catholics are fundies you know. Gay marriage wouldn't bother me. Although I don't know if I would actively support it.

I'm actively supporting the right for gays to not get the shit kicked out of them every day in redneck communities like Somerset, PA. That's partly due to the fact that brown people get beat up too occasionally, but not as much as gays.

[kanrok]

33. What did you give up?

I gave up my absolute favorite: pizza. I could eat it every single day.

[IronLionZion]

35. sweets

and the only available food at the time was from a vending machine

[kanrok]

37. As a life-long Catholic

And an ex-altar boy, I hereby grant you special dispensation. Go and sin no more. :hi:

[IronLionZion]

39. haha thanks kanrok

:hi:

[dmr]

30. I'm Catholic, and am 100% behind any couple

who wish to legally commit their love to another human being. I'm happy for anyone who is fortunate to find someone to love and be loved in return.

Selfish and intolerant people are paving their way to hell, not those who are inclusive. If I go to hell, it won't be for my beliefs in equal rights.

[Nashvilliberal]

34. I concur...but...

Do you support gay marriage in the Courthouse, or the Church?

I'm also Catholic, and I think the position of the Catholic Church on this matter is pretty clear, and not liable to change soon. And this is not a matter of discrimination; the Bible is very clear on this, there's not any "wiggle room."

However, as a firm believer in the separation of Church and State, I don't what legal grounds, other than weakly pointing to pre-existing convention, that either State or Federal government can present to justify laws prohibiting homosexual marriage. If it's not illegal to be homosexual (are there any of those dormant "anti-sodomy" statutes still on the books?), then how can government prevent two adults from entering into a contract of marriage, if the marriage is predicated on legal (homosexual) conduct?

That being said, I'd appreciate feedback on the standard argument, namely: "Well, if gay marriage is legal, then what about bigamy?" This is a legitimate question; if the justification for gay marriage is "consenting adults," then does this open the door for bigamy also? And, if so, is that a problem?

[IronLionZion]

36. Rochester had an "activist" priest

Father Jim Callan who recognized gay marriages but was promptly replaced. I'm not sure if he performed the weddings.


edit: priest not bishop

[Mick Knox]

38. I posted a similar thread .. and I agree with you...

On the last part.. I also think its a slippery slope... and I suppose one for others to fight. Can two brothers marry? A care taker? I dont know... I think the slippery slop .. even if valid.. is not enough to deny rights to a certain group.

On the church.. I would immediately walk out of a church that started marrying gay people. I would never return. I agree there is no wiggle room in religon... each church can decide what they want to do, and I can decide to leave..

I have no prob with the gov recognizing them.. or in fact churches doing it.. but I will not participate in either option.

As the argument goes.. Gays getting married does not affect me.

Tons married in SF.. and my marriage is intact, the sky has not split, and the rivers have not turn to blood. By the same token.. gays can be equally respectful in return and not expect me to toss out my entire belief system and start engaging that type of lifestyle within my own life.

[kanrok]

40. I support gay marriage, period

I agree that our church does not support church mandated gay marriage. I agree. But I also believe that if some denomination allows it, then the government should not interfere. As for anti-sodomy statutes, at least in my jurisdiction (Illinois) they are still on the books (and they don't define it as solely same-sex acts) but it is NEVER prosecuted. It can be, but it is not, by custom and practice. (I also agree that it should not). As for bigamy, the rationale for not extending marriage to that extent, to me, is simple. The rationale for marriage (besides the "love" aspect) is essentially legal. Property rights, succession under probate, etc. all contemplate one-on-one relationships. To inject bigamy into the mix would negate laws that are on the books, and aggressively pursued. Good thought though.

[JVS]

41. You should discuss this with some priests.

One of the duties of the clergy is to answer questions about the church.

[ArwenJade]

42. I'm Catholic...

and I agree. There are a lot of liberal Catholics. But I think the church has some growing to do.

I converted 4 years ago. I was raised Mormon, but left after I found out about the history of Joseph Smith and some of the secret beliefs.

I tried a few different churches, but the Catholic church seemed to fit. One of the reasons was that we are allowed a variety of different beliefs. My priest even believes in evolution.
I don't know what your priest would say, but I think God wants everyone to be happy, just as long as they aren't hurting anyone.