China makes everything - Does this matter?

[Chicago Democrat]

We went knife shopping the other day. The Henkel knife I bought 20 years ago was so dull. It costs alot back then; $70 or $80 at least. So anyway at Kohl's they had like four different knife companies; gee what do you know? All the knives were made in China. Even though they had brand names like "Chicago Cutlery" and "Henkelle" they were all made in China. So we got the best one for $20. In fact we got 2. When I got home I found the new $20 China knife is actually every bit as good as the German made Henkel knife. That is just amazing to me.

The same is true in product after product. Its not just Kitchen ware; Cloths, TVs, Computers, Everything. China makes everything.

Everything China makes is cheap. So now they make everything. When you hire an American its nearly always for a service. Lawyers, doctors, shrinks, masseurs, hookers, McDonald's, dealers, cops, accountants, teamsters, riggers, plumbers and pundits all don't really make anything other than a shit load (or a load of shit).

Yes we make food and cars. That's nice. Is that enough?

Can this go on forever? Will Chinese be willing to work for 28 cents an hour forever? What if they raise the prices of their goods? What if they stop buying dollars and let their currency rise? What if a war happens with them and we don't know how to make anything anymore.

[FDRrocks]

1. No, it will not go on forever.

I bought a Target bookshelf system that was made in China, btw.

To state what I know briefly, we have a huge deficit and massive capital flight to China. Which means that it is probably inevitable that China will arise as the worlds largest superpower, in a not-to-long.

[Elwood P Dowd]

2. Bush has a plan

to stop the flow of manufacturing jobs offshore. It's real simple; Pass Patriot Act III, throw millions of Americans in prison, and then you have free labor that's even cheaper than China's 20-cents-an-hour labor.

IT'S A RACE TO THE BOTTOM. GEORGE BUSH WILL NOT LET US LOSE!

[FDRrocks]

3. Ah, prison labour

The most disgusting thing this country has done since slavery.

I love it. Not.

[izzie]

8. Can we keep English? I am to old to learn another way of speaking.

It should be fun when they call in the loans.Ever read the book "White Lotus' I think by John Hersay?

[truhavoc]

4. It won't stop as long as they don't have to

We have to make it impossible for them to pay their workers those types of wages. We are the largest consumer base in the world, we have our fair share of might. It might increase prices in the short term, but a tariff or something of the like on Chinese products produced in this manner could be effective, and allow domestic companies to remain competitive. Either the Chinese will have to raise wages or we will have to lower them...which one sounds better to you?

[wuushew]

5. A couple of things

(A) Its going to take a long while to equalize pay with one billion people

(B) For reasons unknown to me China is buying large amounts US securities, preventing us from going belly up and negating any currency imbalance.

[FDRrocks]

6. in regards to (b)

I think it's pretty obvious where its leading.

[I AM SPARTACUS]

7. there are many reasons that China will eventually rule as much...

...as they care to rule.

note: I'm no expert on China, but I did spend a semester teaching university there, and did a fair amount of background reading before...while I was there, I had very little contact with other expats, so my exposure was quite an immersion.

One reason - culturally, the Chinese take the long view. While increasingly the West's "long-term planning" extends to MAYBE a few years into the future, the Chinese look at a decade as "the near-future". (I would imagine that this different understanding of time shows up constantly in US-China relations - pinheads from the State Dept who don't understand this point might think that the Chinese are getting ready to do something - while the Chinese are thinking maybe in 5-6 years...no, I can't provide examples, 'cause I'm not that well-read on the intricacies of US-China relations, that's why I prefaced this with "I would imagine"...).

Another reason - cultural recognition of the virtue of waiting, waiting, waiting...then pouncing on the right opportunity. Or perhaps, even more accurately and ultimately more effective, working-working-working...then pouncing.

Another reason - size. Size of market, size of potential output. Size of long-term ambition, both personal and cuturally.

Another reason - copying. Western bidnez doesn't seem to get it - the Chinese will take any product and copy it well enough to be useful or marketable. Patented? What's patented? I think that, intellectually, the Chinese understand intellectual property rights. But intuitively, they don't see why someone would have the right to keep them from copying something if they can. That seems completely beyond foolish to them. (Note: Western bidnez should look to the high-end of the Chinese education system...what we call "total plagarism", they call "the correct answer"...)

Another reason - similar to my thoughts above on "time"...the concept of "honesty". This is very tricky to explain without seeming biased. So, please cut me some slack...I've discussed this several times with colleagues both Chinese and expat, and I get fairly universal agreement. The Chinese seem to define "honesty" in ways that are essentially different from the way Western culture seems to define it. That is NOT to say that Chinese are inherently dishonest - they are NOT unscrupulous. I can't say exactly how it's defined differently...perhaps the "rules" are much much more intricate, or much much more simple. I have seen individual Chinese people completely and sincerely at a loss when confronted by the Western concept of "honesty".

At any rate, Napoleon Buonaparte hit the nail on the head..."China is a sleeping giant, that if awoken, will shake the world." I think it's inevitable. And perhaps with this, as in the yin-yang symbol of the Tao, there is both dark and light interwoven...

p.s. Re: the original post...I have a set of Sabatier chef's knives, also made in China, also just as good as the original. But you can keep yer Henkels, I've never liked the feel...

[Blue-Jay]

9. Something odd I just remembered about Chinese knives.

I was eating at a Chinese restaurant in Columbus last year. As my friend & I were waiting for the food to arrive, I noticed the silverware. Matched set, yet the knives were made in China, the spoons in Japan, and the forks somewhere else (possibly Korea, but I'm not sure).

I don't know that it has anything to do with anything else, but I thought that it was very odd.

EDIT: I meant to reply to the original post, but I've been up all night and am starting to get a bit loopy.

[Nay]

10. First, you will have to use the Chinese knife for 20 years before you

can determine that it is as good as your old Henkel. It may or may not be.

But, as others have pointed out, China does have a plan, and it ain't in the best interests (long term, that is) for the US to go along with it willy-nilly. But we WILL go along with it, for several reasons:

1. The rich and the corporations make tons of money selling us Chinese stuff and shipping our jobs off to China and like-minded countries. They know it can't go on forever, so they are positioning themselves so they will not suffer. The rest of us will go down the tubes when it's time to cut us loose.

2. All the Walmart shoppers can't get it in their heads that all the cheap stuff they buy comes at a price down the road. They are the ultimate in short-term thinkers with short-term habits, short-term educations, short-term everything. These are the same people that complain about paying taxes for an education system after their own kids are grown. These short-term thinkers ruin any market strategy the rest of us might come up with -- how can long-term thinkers refuse to buy Chinese stuff if everything in whole categories of goods are made nowhere else?

3. Money market gurus already know we are hopelessly entangled financially with China, and do not expect China to act charitably about it when push comes to shove. The poster above who says the Chinese have patience and will work, work, work, then pounce, is entirely correct. The pouncing will not be pleasant. The very least I expect to see in my lifetime is China marching into Taiwan with nary a peep from the US, because all China will have to do is threaten to call in its financial markers to make us back down immediately.

[Junkdrawer]

11. Who profits and who controls...

Right now, the profit is split between the current Communist government and the Western Capitalists that invested in China.

Right now, the Western Capitalists control access to markets and the flow of capital. How long will these "controls" matter? Perhaps this is why Western Capitalists want control of the oil? Ya think?

[Deja Q]

12. Nothing is forever

America racking up debt like tomorrow won't come. (guess what? It won't...)

America dishing out its infrastructure to other countries because of net costs.

http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/Index.html speaks for itself.

[sendero]

13. The ramifications....

... of it all are two scary to contemplate. Basically, we are selling off our country for trinkets.