The US has supported a successful Coup in Haiti

[Toots]

Aristide has left the country. He has been ousted by force. I guess that is the accepted way to do things in a Democracy now. Governor Davis was subject to recall and the people voted to remove him. That was what we used to feel was the correct way for Democracy to work. Now the US asked Aristide to step down in the face of armed terrorism. How low this great country of ours has sunk. I am truly ashamed to be an American today. For all of you people who feel that Aristide was a bad man and now Haiti will be better off just watch for the boat people. There will be mass flight from the newly formed death squads and the boat people will be flooding our shores now and Bush* will send them back to their deaths because they aren't as good of people as Cubans. Cubans get to come here at will and never get sent back but Haitians are never allowed to stay. The misery in Haiti is starting to escalate now and it will be horrible.

[sallyseven]

1. Of course he had to go.

bushies buddies wanted him out. Never let a elected person stand in the way of the bush juggernaut

[niceypoo]

27. Aristide was helped by Clinton

Thats why Boooosh supported his ouster by the former right wing death squad leaders. Haiti will now slide back into the violence that existed pre aristide all because Boooosh cant help himself at the thought of reacting to Clinton. Another country nudged into anarchy by Boooooosh.

[anti-NAFTA]

2. I'm happy

I live in Miami and most of my friends are Haitian. They all HATE Aristide. Even the working class Haitians 'round here. They consider him an American puppet fuckup.

[Robb]

5. Fair enough

I've been playing catch-up all week to try to learn about it, and I'm still confused about Haiti.

So if he's an "American puppet fuckup" (which I've seen paraphrased elsewhere), are we even going to see refugees?

[Kathy in Cambridge]

8. Robb: DemocracyNow had a great segment on Haiti-here's the link

You need realplayer to listen.

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/02/26/1612211

"Haiti: Different Coup, Same Paramilitary Leaders"

<snip>

Many of the men leading the armed insurrection in Haiti right now are well known to veteran Haiti observers and, for that matter, the US intelligence agencies that worked closely with the paramilitary death squads which terrorized Haiti in the early 1990s. People like Louis Jodel Chamblain, the former number 2 man in FRAPH, Guy Philippe, a former police chief who was trained by US Special forces in Ecuador and Jean Tatun, another leader of FRAPH.
In an hour-long interview with the Washington Post, published today Guy Philippe vowed a bloody assault on Port-au-Prince "very soon" if Aristide refuses to leave office. Philippe and Chamblain told the paper that Aristide's departure and his replacement by an interim leader who would call new elections was the only possible peaceful solution to their three-week-old insurgency. Chamblain said "Aristide has two choices: prison or execution by firing squad."

<snip>

[Kathy in Cambridge]

7. That's funny-my neighbors are Haitian and they LOVE Aristide

and know how fucked up the rebels are: former members of the Ton Ton Macoute and other death squads.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

10. What do you think you will get in his place?...

Another American puppet, perhaps? Who would bet against those odds?

[Tinoire]

12. Be careful with that one. Usually the people who hate Aristide are

the mostly light-skinned elite that runs the businesses exploiting the poor and also the former Duvalieristes & Ton Ton Macoutes. What are your friends' other politics?

In Haiti, I knew the chidren of several Macoutes because they were in my school. I had nothing against them, the were lovely girls but their fathers were the scum of the earth who had assassinated many innocent people. Many of those families fled to the states (they flew in- no boats for them).

Most of the poor people, who could only afford the rickety boat ride, were shipped to Guantanamo.

Haiti is a country where a miniscule segement of society will ring a little bell so the 10 year-old servant girl can sprint up 3 flights of stairs to hand the mistress the glass of cola that's no less than 2 feet away from her. Many homes have special buzzers built into every room; 1 ring for the house-keeper, 2 for the cook, 3 for the gardener, 4 for the laundry-woman, etc... Sick. Really sick.

A lot of the bitching is because Aristide gave the poor illusions that they were people too and not scum to be exploited.

South Africa and Venezuela were sending arms and money (Venezuela $1 Million) to help Aristide. I'm sorry they didn't make it in time.

[rman]

13. now they get American puppet terrorist rule

happy?

[The Zanti Regent]

40. I'm sure that Otto Third Reich has his puppet ready to go

Haiti must have secret oil reserves!

[Laughing Mirror]

14. In fact, US Intelligence agencies are behind Aristide's removal

Precisely because he is not an American puppet fuck-up. We do not support his brand of democracy. Only our own, which, is of course not democracy.

[lastknowngood]

3. Yea I think it was a training exercise for the new CIA agents now

they can get back to Venezuela and other S.A. countries which have oil. and natural gas.

[G_j]

4. seems very few have been paying attention

http://www.pih.org/inthenews/021230farmersmithoped.htm

Unjust embargo deepens Haiti's health crisis

op-ed by Dr. Paul Farmer and Mary C. Smith Fawzi

Boston Globe , December 30, 2002

ON HAITI'S central plateau, lack of resources and medical personnel combined with a growing burden of disease are responsible for increasingly desperate social conditions. The causes of worsening conditions are many, but the connection between unnecessary suffering and an aid embargo led by the United States is undeniable.

US-sponsored embargoes against Haiti have a long history. From 1804-62, the United States, a major slave-owning economy, simply refused to recognize the existence of Haiti. According to a US senator from South Carolina speaking on the Senate floor in 1824, ''the peace and safety of a large portion of our union forbids us even to discuss'' it. The United States occupied Haiti militarily from 1915-34, and since that time has supported a number of undemocratic governments. Under the Duvalier dictatorships, generous aid, primarily from the United States, flowed steadily, as it did during the military juntas later convicted of war crimes after the violent overthrow of Haiti's first democratically elected president, the Rev. Jean-Bertrand Aristide.

During the early 1990s, the UN imposed a trade embargo in order to push forward the restoration of Aristide. When in 1994 he returned to office and a devastated country, $500 million in development aid was promised by the United States and multilateral organizations. This aid might have helped resuscitate the hemisphere's poorest country, but it has been withheld.

<snip>
After the presidential election of November 2000 (widely recognized as free and fair), the funds were to be released, but the Bush administration used its veto power to continue to block release of funds on the grounds that Haiti has not demonstrated an adequate commitment to governing the country in a democratic manner - objections not heard during the long years of dictatorship.
...more..

--------------
I'm just curious, were there any Democratics raising concerns over this?

[lefty_mcduff]

6. You may also whish to check out this 'globalization' article

http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/43a/458.html

[htuttle]

11. Just the Congressional Black Caucus

Cong. Maxine Waters, among others, was actually very vocal about this, and called it as a CIA coup some time ago.

[G_j]

17. Maxine Waters on Democracy Now

www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/02/16/1746202

Rep. Maxine Waters Charges U.S. Is Encouraging A Coup in Haiti

transcript

[Tinoire]

20. Thanks. She's pretty clear!

AMY GOODMAN: What evidence do you have that the U.S. Government is supporting the anti-Aristide forces?

MAXINE WATERS: Well, I guess a few days ago there was an article that appeared in "The New York Times" with a so-called anonymous -- someone in the State Department having, you know, sent a trial balloon up saying that something was going to have to be done in Haiti, and it was possible that the State Department could support the ouster. Well, not only did you see that kind of a statement coming out of the State Department, I noticed that each of the releases that they had done over the past several weeks kept suggesting that everything that was going on, all of the problems were the fault of the president, and they were literally giving out misinformation. Well, Mr. Noriega, of course, was the chief of staff to Senator Jesse Helms, who was basically a Haiti -- well, hated Haiti, and they have always worked against Haiti, and Mr. Noriega, is now in charge of that policy. And I think it's because of him -- I really believe it's because of him that these statements keep coming out of the State Department, and I think that Colin Powell was focused on Afghanistan and Iraq, and I have been communicating with him recently, and I have asked him to pay more attention. I have talked to him about Andy Apaid, who is leading the group of 184. And the Latest statement from him that came out of the state department was much more balanced. I am hopeful that he will move Noriega out of the way so that we can get behind the Caricom proposal and try to make sense out of it and give help. It appears that that's the direction that Colin Powell is moving in.

AMY GOODMAN: We know the history of the United States in the previous coup in Haiti. Aristide forced out for three years, 1991 to 1994. It turned out that the leader of the paramilitary death squad, the F.R.A.P.H, Emmanuel Constance was on the payroll of the Defense Intelligence Agency, and as President Clinton was saying we have to go off the murderers and the rapists and thugs in Haiti, justifying why the U.S. was moving in. It turned out on his own government's payroll was the leader that he was talking about. And now he walks free in the United States, most likely here in New York in Queens.

MAXINE WATERS: Yes, that is true. He is on the streets of New York. And that sad history is a history that we in America have within ashamed of. Not only have we supported dictators in Haiti, Papa Doc and Baby Doc Duvalier. The C.I.A. has always had a hand. And we've had people like Constance on the payroll. I really believe that despite the fact that we worked very, very hard to get President Clinton involved in Haiti, and supporting the return of President Aristide to Haiti, as someone said yesterday, the job was not finished. What we did was simply put him back there, but we have allowed the embargo against Haiti to literally choke that country, not only has he not gotten the support from the State Department, the World Bank, removed itself, basically, from Haiti. It took us years to get the I.D.B. to pay attention, and to appropriate the dollars that had supported for Haiti, and still that money has not gotten to the government. They're still waiting on certain conditions to be met. So, president Clinton, even though he certainly did do the right thing, we should have stayed longer. In support of Haiti. We should have given more support to the training, and development and expansion of the police force, and so, the job was just half done. They're at great risk now.


AMY GOODMAN: Congress member Maxine Waters, I was wondering if you would stay on the line with us as we head even further south from Haiti to Venezuela, looking to see if there are any connections when it comes to U.S. Policy towards these two countries.

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/02/16/1746202

[maggrwaggr]

38. wow, someone who actually knows what they're talking about

unlike everybody in the fucking news media.

Where is Maxine Waters today? Haven't seen her on the news. Just Bush's ugly fucking face.

[TankLV]

9. Let's see...

A democratically elected person is ousted by persons referredt to as "rebels", but the democratically elected person's supporters are referred to as "gangs".

He has not even served half his term.

Yep - certainly no editiorialzing by the whore media.

Is there any legitimate democratic insistution that the repukes will NOT corrupt or try to destroy?

[GreenPartyVoter]

15. So who will we install next?

[oneighty]

16. Neil Bush?

He could use a country to play with. Sorta like brother Jeb.

180

[OneTwentyoNine]

29. LOL,yeah... and he could sell them some software too.......nt

[Tinoire]

18. 2000: US targets Venezuela: Bush plans aggressive policy in Latin America

US targets Venezuela: Bush plans aggressive policy in Latin America

US targets Venezuela: Bush plans aggressive policy in Latin America
By Patrick Martin
30 December 2000

The incoming Republican Party administration in Washington plans to take a tougher and more aggressive line in Latin America, targeting nationalists regarded as opponents of American economic and political interests, including the leaders of Venezuela and Haiti as well as the traditional bogeyman of US imperialism, Cuban President Fidel Castro.

<snip>

Another immediate target of American pressure is the government of Jean-Bertrande Aristide in Haiti. Aristide was elected president for a second time last month, returning to the office to which he was first elected in 1990. (The former priest was ousted in a 1991 military coup, returned to power after the US occupation in 1994, and left office in 1995 when his five-year term expired.)

Although Aristide and his Lavalas Party won by a landslide in both the presidential election in November and the congressional elections last May, Republicans in the US Congress are demanding that Washington bar him from the hemispheric summit to be held in Canada in April. Senate Foreign Relations Committee Chairman Jesse Helms denounced the elections in Haiti as a “sham,” although Aristide's popular support is overwhelming and his victory was more genuine than George W. Bush's.

A joint statement issued by Helms and Congressman Porter J. Goss of Florida, chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, denounced “narco-traffickers, criminals and other anti-democratic elements who surround Jean-Bertrand Aristide” and called for an end to “all direct support for the Haitian government,” which is heavily dependent on US financial aid.

In response to Republican pressure, the Clinton administration dispatched former National Security Adviser Anthony Lake to extract a humiliating declaration from Aristide, the latest demonstration of the Haitian president's prostration before Washington. Aristide agreed to a total of eight demands, including runoff votes for Senate seats challenged by his political opponents, an invitation to opposition parties to join the government, a new economic policy imposed by the IMF and World Bank, and a new political “reform” to be monitored by the Organization of American States.

<snip>

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2000/dec2000/bush-d30.shtml

[ShaneGR]

19. Actually, we did NOTHING in Haiti

And that was the problem, or benefit, depending on how you viewed Aristide. Personally, I've read enoigh material on Aristide to know that he was a rotten leader. Heck, half his country was starving while the guy built oppulant palaces and held bogus elections.


Today

[Toots]

21. while the guy built oppulant palaces

That is just plain not true.

[Q]

22. "...while the guy built oppulant palaces and held bogus elections."

- Kinda sounds like New America. Bush* lives in luxury and represents the ruling class while he intentionally destroys social programs and presides over 'bogus elections'.

- I don't understand why some Americans still don't fucking get it. America has become a superpower banana republic that can 'change' any foreign government it wishes if they don't play ball.

[Tinoire]

23. Where did you get that *&O? Aristide = the best thing that ever happened

to the Haitian people.

And yes the US did PLENTY in Haiti. For years, for decades, for centuries, we have done quite enough and not given that nation one minute's worth of peace.

Free labor is VERY hard to pass by.

SGR, you really need to get out more. Travel more. Read more. That statement was stunning.

Opulent palaces? Aristide lives like a monk. You seem to be confusing Haiti & Iraqi propaganda.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2000/dec2000/bush-d30.shtml

[Toots]

25. A question for you Tinoire

I heard on C-Span this AM a Freeper called in and said that over sixty percent of Haitians have AIDS. Is there any resemblance to truth in that statement? Is there an AIDS problem in Haiti of any sort what-so-ever?

[Aidoneus]

26. I don't think that is possible..

I'm not aware of the exact figures, but that seems absurd. The highest number I've heard in any country is a southern African state, which has approx. 30% out of around 2mil, if memory serves..

There is a great deal of ridiculous propaganda circulating about this lately (ha!--"lately").. there are most recent reports that President Aristide has not, in fact, left the country, as previous claims have suggested. This is a very typical psychological warfare campaign.

[Toots]

28. I believe absolutely nothing from a freeper but from Tinoire I do.

That is why I asked her.

[Aidoneus]

33. indeed

Tinoire is an excellent person to talk to on this (or most anything else, for that matter)..

[Tinoire]

36. Shucks. You guys are really sweet

:) Blush / Thanks

[rman]

32. did Saddam throw babies out of incubators?

still it was one heck of a reason to go to war

[Tinoire]

35. Ouch. I don't know much about this

I left Haiti in the 80s before the AIDs epidemic. My opinion is that the AIDs-ridden Haitians meme was Bush Sr. propaganda to justify keeping the Haitians out of the US but I think alot, too many people really are sick. I don't think the situation in Haiti is any different than the situation in Africa or Thailand where you have the explosive combination of a Western sexual playground & extreme poverty.

60% is certainly exaggerated. According to this PBS interview, it's more like 5% http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/health/jan-june03/aids_05-27.html but I'm not an expert on this subject. If you think about it though, they've been saying that Haitians are 60% AIDs-riddent for over 2 decades now. As poor as the people are, with no access to expensive drugs, they'd by all rights all be dead by now if that were true.

The people are very poor and because there's little organized sanitation in the poor neighborhoods, some diseases can spread very rapidly. The Haitian people are some of the cleanest, hardest-working people you could ever meet no matter how poor they are but until Aristide came along, they had no running water and trash was very poorly disposed of.

If I find a better answer I'll get back to you but for now that's the best I can do. Thanks for your vote of confidence.

[Darranar]

42. So what do you think is going to happen now?

Is Aristide finished, or is he going to return like Chavez?

What do you know of this Supreme Court Justice who seized power?

[rman]

30. please show me the material you have read

-

[OneTwentyoNine]

31. Hmmm,sounds like the Shah of Iran, US installed once again...nt

[AmericanErrorist]

24. Count your blessings

that it happened internally... even the most ardent enemy of Artistide here wouldn't have wanted our boys to die for this.

[MrPrax]

34. Our Way of Life is at Stake...

(an oldie but a goodie)

from Haiti Redux
by
Barbara Ehrenreich
...

{b]"Are there vital American interests at stake?" some have inquired.

To which I must say, At last, an intelligent question. Yes, of course, there are always vital American interests at stake: oil in the Gulf, those lovely coral earrings in the case of Grenada, and--though few in the outside world realize it--the U.S. is almost totally dependent on Haiti for its supply of baseballs. This season's so-called baseball strike has in fact been a voluntary effort to control consumption, but an alarming dependency remains. All of our baseballs are stitched together by Haitian women for wages of five to ten cents an hour, apparently out of sheer love for the game.

Imagine if we had to import our baseballs from, say, Belgium, where labor costs would drive up the price of each ball to $159 or more. Greedy fans would stampede in their efforts to catch fly balls. The sport would be ruined. Hence our Haitian mission is emerging at this very moment: to give the Haitian military a refresher course in clean, hi-tech methods of crowd control--i.e., labor suppression--before Aristide returns. So naturally there is some confusion about which side we are on: we like our baseballs cheap, but they shouldn't be actually dripping with blood."
http://zena.secureforum.com/Znet/ZMag/articles/ehren3.htm

[Tinoire]

37. Great article & so true Thanks n/t

[peacetalksforall]

39. The right wing media must have been ordered to use the word

repatriate for blockade. Repatriate implies that the person or people are already in the country they are being repatriated from. We go into their waters and establish a blockade. Was our Coast Guard within 3 miles?

Humanitarian?

We dictated the overthrow, we sent our military in, we sent our Coast Guard in, we sent our International Development Bank in, we sent our Intelligence in, we funded the guns, we paid off the rebels.

Dirty hands.

Another corporate move?

[Darranar]

41. Indeed... this is disgusting.

:puke::puke::puke::puke: