What religions are represented here in DU?

[thom1102]

What religion/belief system do you subscribe to?

On edit: Added belief system, because this is spiraling out of control into an argument over whether atheist should be included.

[sangha]

1. Other - All of the above

.

And you left out Buddhism and Hinduism

[thom1102]

2. Sorry,

No offense intended... only ten spaces. I am sure lots of protestants will regret being all lumped together. I realized it when I saw your post... your name made me realize it.

[sangha]

19. No offense taken.

.

[jagguy]

8. Don't forget Shinto

Eastern Orthodox
Jehova's Witnesses
Christian Scientists
Scientologists

quite a lot more of any of these than Wiccan.

Oh and whatever the one that related to voodoo !

[thom1102]

11. With the exception of eastern orthodox,

the rest are sects of protestantism. I think you underestimate the appeal of wicca

[jagguy]

42. probably so

but not the numbers

[Kolesar]

44. Santaria, from Haiti

Voodoo is also known as "supply side economics", according to the 41st president.

How about adding Native American religion to the list?

[thom1102]

53. Yeah, I will probably catch hell for that (legitimately)...

but there were only ten spots, and I am not Zogby, Gallup or Quinnipiac. This is no where near scientific.

[Az]

60. Its ok

You meant well. It takes experience to know how to make your way through a religious discussion. It takes a few firefights to find out the best way through these.

[Terran]

69. Voudon

The actual name for 'voodoo', as practiced in Haiti. Also, Santeria and other related sects, as practiced in different aras of the Spanish and Portugese-speaking world. There are probably as many Santeria practitioners as Eastern Orthodox.

Scientology is not a religion, IMO.

[Az]

72. Really?

Just curious but why do you think $cientology is not a religion?

[Rich Hunt]

87. heh

LOL I know why.

$ue me if you don't like it.

[Terran]

145. Because it's a complete fabrication

L. Ron Hubbard, a hack sci-fi writer, was sitting around with some other sci-fi writers back in the late 1940's. They were talking about what kind of stories sell well, and Hubbard, who was only ever marginally successful, commented that if he could invent a religion he'd be rich. And so he did.

[drdigi420]

152. So are other religions

complete fabrications

fairy tales

scientology is just as legitimate as christianity.

superman is just as real as batman

fairy dust is just as real as holy water

[trotsky]

3. If atheism is a religion...

then bald is a hair color.

Atheism is the absence of theistic beliefs. It is not a religion in and of itself.

[thom1102]

5. I think that a lot of atheists would probably take issue with that.

How could I have phrased the question differently so that people who identify as atheists would be included in a poll sampling peoples religious orientation?

[Terwilliger]

15. then they wouldnt be atheists

why ask atheists about their religious orientation?they dont have a religious orientation!

[Az]

35. Possible alternates

No Religion
Religious Humanism
Secular Humanism (Though this one could set off some alarms as well because they fancy themself to be nonreligious even though they fullfill some definitions of a religion)

Don't worry too much about it. This is a tricky subject. Doesn't mean it shouldn't be discussed. Just that mistakes can be made and one should be ready to reexamine misconceptions.

[bryant69]

6. It is not a religion, but it is a choice of religion

or a religious position of you will. If one practices a faith one is, in effect, a proponent of that faith. Agnosticism is the refusal to select a religious position. Athiesm is a religious position (or a position on relgion) stating that all religions are wrong.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Terwilliger]

12. BZZZZZZZZZT

that is incorrect

Atheism is the label of those who lack belief in a god or gods

[bryant69]

18. What's curious

About Atheism is that many of its proponents seem as concerned with orthodoxy as any fundementalist. Orthodoxy meaning correct belief; they must assure that their beliefs are presented exactly correctly.

[sangha]

21. As demonstrated

in this thread, where some atheists seem to have taken offense because atheism is being described as a religion

[Terwilliger]

33. and it isnt...as opposed to you god-pods...who must have religion

to justify your god concept

Other than that you'd just shutup about and pray to your god in the closet, like the Book suggests

[bryant69]

65. Hmmmm I'm a God-Pod?

I wonder if you could come up with a more insulting term for believers.

[drdigi420]

102. I can

but I prefer to just call them what they are: victims of a con.

[Terwilliger]

32. what belief are you referring to?

[sangha]

34. "Atheism is not a religion"

You remember that one, right T?

[Terwilliger]

36. I dont remember it...I just said it

how does that apply to what I said, or what the other poster said?

[Trajan]

45. explain orthodox atheism ....

and show where atheism demands conformance to some atheist 'creed' ...

Show sources and dates ....

[damnraddem]

24. I'm an agnostic, and I consider it a religious position.

But as I noted, atheism can be seen as an absence of belief, or as a belief in an absence -- different atheists have different positions.

However, the issue is that the poll poster wanted to get a reading on positions re religion, so let's cut the debate about how many atheist angels can dance on the head of a pin.

[trotsky]

From dictionary.com:

re·li·gion n.

1. a. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
b. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

--------

The closest you can get to including atheism as a religion is definition 4, but atheism isn't really a "cause, principle, or activity". It's simply a statement that there is insufficient evidence to support the god postulate. Yes, atheists speak up when religionists want to label us. That makes atheism a religion? I don't think so.

On edit: corrected formatting

[thom1102]

73. I would argue that it is a principle.

[Az]

77. It is a principle for some groups

But that makes it a component and not a religion itself. There are many ways to becoming an atheist and most of them do not involve becoming part of a group. A person that has never been taught about the idea of gods is an atheist. A person that rejects stories about god is an atheist.

Atheism tells you one aspect of a person. It tells you nothing about who they associate with. What moral precepts they hold. Or even if they know another atheist.

[trotsky]

90. Well then, present your argument.

You're asserting that atheism is a principle (obviously in the religious sense). Let's see the argument.

[thom1102]

137. Principle:

Per Dictionary.com:
A basic truth, law, or assumption
(the first definition)

Atheism is the disbelief or denial of the existence of god/s.

As an atheist, would you not argue that your disbelief in god is a basic truth, or at least a basic assumption?

[theemu]

191. Wow. I can look up definitions too.

Look, here's the thing. Ever since the pre-Socratics, definitions have been the most debated element of philosophical and theological discourse. What is 'free will'? What is 'good'? What is 'evil'? Entire philosophies have been built upon slight differences in the definition of one word.

So when you pull out a bullshit argument concerning a dictionary definition, you're either being intellectually dishonest, or an intellectual dipshit. As an above poster noted, there are many ideas of what exactly atheism is, the two most prevalent in theological debate being 'the absence of belief' and 'the belief in absence'. I personally cannot accept the former notion of atheism, as it projects a theological/metaphysical opinion onto objects which clearly do not hold opinions (a chair is absent of the belief - are all chairs atheist?) To me, the latter definition holds more water, and thus the 'belief in an absence' held by atheists constitutes a specific dogmatic stance which is analogous to those which many theists hold.

[damnraddem]

17. That depends on the atheist:

1. absence of theistic beliefs; vs.
2. belief in the absence of theistic entities.

[Terwilliger]

54. 3) 2 does not apply because atheists don't believe in "no-god"

They believe that there's no proof either way, which is heavily substantiated.

[drdigi420]

112. Despite common belief

Us atheists DO search for a meaning to life.

The thing that separates us from the religious folk is: we don't make one up.

[Nederland]

142. Atheist vs Agnostic

2 does not apply because atheists don't believe in "no-god" They believe that there's no proof either way, which is heavily substantiated

I think you are describing an agnostic, not an atheist. An atheist is a person who believes that there is no god, where as an agnostic believes that there's no proof either way.

[Terwilliger]

162. atheists do not "believe" that there is no god

they have no evidence and dont simply assume that its possible god exists because they don't know for sure

[Blue_Chill]

185. well lets see what the dictionary says

Atheist - One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods.

Agnostic - One who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God.

[rock]

20. While that's technically true

The question is one of religious beliefs here at DU. To not count us aetheists and agnostics would give incorrect results to the question as asked, IMO.

[termo]

70. yep but it has to appear in statistics

... and after you read some stupid statistic with 100% of a population believing in something ...

[trotsky]

91. Oh, I agree.

Just nitpicking the original phrasing of the poll question is all. I wouldn't even call atheism a "belief system" either. I don't believe in unicorns either. Does my non-belief in unicorns make up a "belief system"?

[thom1102]

180. Since your problem is with the wording of the question...

then why haven't you answered post 5, where I specifically asked how I could rephrase the question? Or are you merely content to stir up shit, rather than answering the question?

[thom1102]

74. I would buy that.

Bald is a sufficient description for a lack of hair color, just as atheism is a sufficient description for a lack of religion.

[chomskyite2]

83. i see your point

but it should be an option in a religon poll.

[jagguy]

4. Episcopal

we're prodestant AND catholic ! I guess that makes us schitzo !

[TrogL]

16. The Anglican community considers itself catholic

and considers the Roman Catholic church as having left the fold, not the other way around.

[outinforce]

25. Actually, Most Protestant Churches Consider Themselves to be Catholic

Most Protestant Churches consider themselves to be members of the Holy Catholic Church. The Apostles' Creed clearly states "I believe in the Holy Catholic Church".

What most Protestants do NOT consider themselves to be is members of the ROMAN Catholic Church.

Catholic means nothing more than Universal....and most Protestants (as well as most Roman Catholics) consider themselves to be members of the Universal (or Catholic) Church.

[Terwilliger]

7. Atheism isn't a religion

it's a lack of a religion

[damnraddem]

26. More atheist angels.

That pinhead is getting crowded.

[Terwilliger]

47. excuse me , but what the fuck are you talking about?

please...I'm all eyes

[Snow]

75. It was a strange mind-experiment theologists

of olden days in Europe found entertaining. The question as it has come down to us in myth is "How many angels can dance (fit? Stand?) on the head of a pin." and has become a metaphor for meaningless theologic argument.

[Az]

78. Its a way of saying

An interminible argument. Refering the the angels on a pin mentioned above. Such arguments would go on forever.

[Brian Sweat]

82. A moose because a vest has no sleeves?

[Az]

31. Bzzzzt

Atheism is a lack of belief in god or gods. There are religions that do not mandate belief in god or gods and are open to atheists. Buddhism and Unitarian Universalism come to mind.

[Terwilliger]

43. "...religions that don't mandate..."

That's a diplomatic way of saying that their gods don't exclude those who don't believe...which WAS the question offered up by this thread

To include atheism as a religion is incorrect.

[sangha]

48. Wrong Einstein

Buddhism, for example, is silent on the God-issue. Some Buddhists don't believe in God. Some do. And some Buddhists think that both groups are wrong.

"The idea of God is false. The idea of No-God is also false" - The Dalai Lama

[Terwilliger]

51. The Dalai Lama knows god now?

Looky here, Einstein! Still no proof of your god bullshit, and yet you whine whine whine.

And now, your impassioned defense is the argument that this religion doesn't necessarily believe in god? Do you know what you believe or why?

Please support your local position.

[Az]

52. Doubtful, because

The Dali Lama is an atheist. I think you are misreading some of the comments. Might want to recheck them.

[Terwilliger]

56. Yet sangha...an ardent god-pod...uses this quote as a reason that atheists

believe in "no-god"?

Buddhism is not a spirit based religion...none of the groups that advocate some way of existence that does not include a god concept are religions.

[sangha]

64. Az is a very smart person

You should listen to what he says

[Az]

67. Don't know about that

I hope my words speak for themself. If he finds flaw with them perhaps I can learn from him. Perhaps I need to find a better way to convey the ideas I am presenting. I don't know that how smart I am really is enough to tell anyone to listen to me. Though I do appreciate the compliment. Just trying to avoid an appeal to authority argument.

[mumon]

113. It's not a relevant question ...at least that's what the Buddha said...

and I happen to agree with him.

[Suspicious]

124. My interpretation

of the quote, "The idea of God is false. The idea of No-God is also false" is the rejection of dualism.

The assertion that the effect and cause are similar
is not acceptable.
The assertion that they are not similar
is also not acceptable.
-- Nagarjuna; Mulamadhyamaka-Karika IV, 6

As long as I'm quoting, I just have to add this one, because it's a personal favorite:

Renunciation is realizing that nostalgia for samsara is full of shit.
--Chogyam Trungpa; quoted in Wisdom of No Escape

:D

[Az]

49. Agreed

I was not claiming atheism was a religion. Its no more a religion than theism is. It tells us nothing about the belief systems the individual adheres to. A religion is a social structure with a variety of beliefs it promotes. These need not include a belief in god or gods.

[Terwilliger]

58. so Buddhism is a belief, or a way of life?

A religion is a social structure with a variety of beliefs it promotes.

Would that make homosexuality a belief or a way of life?

[Az]

66. Unfortunately language is flexible

Religion in our culture has largely been usurped to mean specifically the judeo/xian mindsets. This is not the original intent of the word. As our awareness of world religions expands we find that a religion can be many things. Buddhism is a religion. Unitarian Universalism is a religion. Taoism is a religion. A religion need not have a mystical quality. It need not have a god component. It merely is a social structure made of people with a shared approach to some aspect of life gathering together to encourage this commonality.

[Terwilliger]

126. like homosexuals

your argument could be made to support that idea

hell, with that definition, a group of atheists could be said to constitute a religion! :wow:

[Az]

130. Anything can constitute a religion

if the people involved choose to gather together and share in their joy of a particular idea. If a group of atheists gather together they are behaving like a religious group.

I think you still have a knee jerk reaction to the word religion. It does not mandate mystical beliefs. It is a term that defines any group that gathers to embrace a set of ideas. If its a group of plumbers gathering together to praise a plunger, this could constitute a religion.

Its not my definition. Here you go, from www.m-w.com
4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

Nothing in there about god, fairies, ufos, or the loch ness monster. The word is derived from the Greek word religare which itself means to link or join. Thus it means a group gathered together in a shared set of ideas.

[termo]

76. a religion was a successful sect...

$$$

[mumon]

114. Yes, and no and both and neither...

Hope that clears things up...

[Az]

115. You've been practicing your kohns

Haven't you.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

9. "secular Christian"

Protestant, to be precise.

[NeonLX]

150. Ain't it great to find others of similar thought...

...instead of the knee-jerk funnymentalists who want to cram their narrow version of God down everyone else's throat?

People like Falwell, Robertson & Ashcroft do much more damage to the image of Christianity than a million atheists could ever do.

[tkulesa]

10. Mixed

My family is half Jewish and half Catholic. I have some education and training in Hinduism. And I have a few years experience in neo-paganism.

[acerbic]

13. Other: Cthulhu

:-)

[Az]

46. Other interesting created religions

Bob (Church of the subgenius)
IPU (Invisible Pink Unicorn created by online atheists)
Eris (recovered Greek Goddess of mischief placed at the head of the Discordian church .... Fnord!)
Hank (from Kissing Hanks Ass)
Xenu (Ok this one is from a real religion)

[acerbic]

57. I find the idea of a fictional religion funny in a sort of redundant way

:evilgrin:

[Az]

80. You definately want to read

Principia Discordia: Or how I met the Goddess and what I did to her when I met her.

Principia Discordia was a creation of the sixties. It was created as a mockery of orthodox religions that were telling the hippies they were doomed. So they made their own religion.

[damnraddem]

14. Your categories are not mutually exclusive, ...

but you didn't let me 'vote' twice, once for each of my religions.

I'm in as agnostic, but not as Unitarian/Univesalist ('Other').

Raised Catholic, though.

[rogerashton]

22. Other

Unitarian Universalist and Deist

No, Scientologists are not Protestant -- not Christian at all. And Jehova's Witnesses and Christian Science are at best marginal.

Where is the Bahai World Faith? Are there no Bahais on this board? I think the Bahai faith is probably the only revealed liberal religion.

[Khephra]

59. Hermetic Unitarian Universalist Wiccan Gnostic Taoist

Would probably fit me the best.

[Snow]

79. " I think the Bahai faith is probably the only revealed liberal religion.

Ahem. Quakers.

[Snow]

151. Oh, wait, sorry - Quaker is not a revealed religion,

we're a bunch of seekers.....and there aren't that many of those in in Western religion either (let's see, sufis, some branches of judaism, there's some mystic roman catholics......kinda sparse on the ground)

[Birthmark]

23. Religion?

I don't need no stinkin' religion!!

What kind of tricks can your dogma do?

[damnraddem]

28. That depends.

Cat-lick dogma? ;-)

[Birthmark]

40. Is that the one...

...that chases itself in circles, gets tired, and begins to...um, bathe the less reputable parts of its body? Theology is so confusing!

[Liberal Veteran]

27. What? Raelian not listed?

I'm shocked! Shocked I say!

[Az]

29. Checked atheism but technically

Its not a religion. Buddhists and Unitarian Universalists can be atheists. There are even atheist Rabbis and Preists (Rabbi Sherin Wine and Reverand Spong come to mind).

I myself am a small list of things. Unitarian Universalist, Taoist, Atheist, Humanist and sometimes discordian.

[Mr. McD]

30. I am Atheist; I have no religion or religious beliefs.

[MUAD_DIB]

37. You failed to mention

reformed atheists.

[thom1102]

38. Egads!! I've created a monster!!!

[Az]

41. Excuse me but the proper statement is

Muwahahahahah I've created a monster!! Muwahahahahaha(2nd evil laugh optional)

[Kolesar]

39. I am a member of the "Catholic Alumni Association"

--To steal a line from Bill Maher.
I still love the pierogies.

[JVS]

103. LOL that's a good one.

[Marymarg]

50. Had to vote --other

I am an Episcopalian and proud of it!

[Fescue4u]

55. No wonder DU is so anti christian

With this many Athetist on board.

Interesting poll

[Terwilliger]

61. It's the B-Sharps! "Atheists on board...atheists on board..."

"lock up all your children...
atheists on board..."

[Fescue4u]

86. B-Sharps?

whuts-that?

[Terwilliger]

125. The Simpsons

The B-Sharps was Homer's barber-shop quartet

[Az]

71. Atheist does not equal Anti Christian

You will probably find it is anti religious right. But there is a level of respect between theists and atheists (even if it is begrudging sometimes) here on DU. A key component of the Dems is a tolerance for a diverse array of people and beliefs. When one tries to mandate ones beliefs you will see the ire of many here. This is why the religious right is a shared enemy. There are fundimentalists that see the threat of their religion becoming entangled with the government and they defend the wall of seperation alongside the most ardent atheist. Yes atheists believe Cristians are wrong on some counts. But Christians believe that Jews are wrong on many counts. The very nature of belief is that you believe you are right. By definition this postulates that you suspect someone else must be wrong. Its how we get along with such beliefs in our society that makes the difference.

[Fescue4u]

85. You have alot of good points..

My comment is simply based on the number of threads that are essentially anti religion or anti christian.

I don't pay alot of attention to those threads, but it seems like can get very numerous at times.

[Brian Sweat]

88. Atheists are tolerant of tolerant theists.

Atheists invective directed at Christainity is the result of intolerance on the part of the most vocal of the Christain community.

[Blue_Chill]

93. That's bullshit

That's the old "I'm not a bigot for hating your people because your people hated my people first" defense. It's nonsense.

The anti-theists on this board are no different then Falwell. They think they know better then everyone else and thus freely preach their beliefs to everyone. They aren't bothered with respecting anyone because they see themselves as superior.

[Brian Sweat]

95. To bad

The face of Christainity in America is intolerance. As long as the Christain community allows the Falwell and Roberts to act as its voice, then you will reap what you sow.

[Blue_Chill]

119. Too Bad? Fuck that!

How the hell you want us to quiet Falwell and Roberts? They are the voice YOU CHOOSE to listen to. You ignore the postive voices.

And trust me champ, you guys keep this anti-christian shit up and the only thing you morons are going sow is less votes and less power.

[Az]

123. I think what he may be trying to suggest is

That you and the other followers of Jesus strive to shout down hate mongers like Falwell and Robertson (FalTerson) rather than letting them speak for you. With no uproar from Christians we are left to believe that you condone his positions.

Some of us have taken the time to familiarise ourself with the reality that most christians do not look to FalTerson as their spokespeople. But it is not nonbelievers responsibility to familiarise theirself with all the varieties of christianity. If you feel FalTerson and their ilk have falsely represented your faith then it is up to you to present it in its best light.

[Blue_Chill]

174. Get me on CNN

Because the message of "peace" doesn't get as many viewers as "I HATE GAYS THEY CAUSED 9/11!!!!"

[Terwilliger]

128. Anti-Christian?

you're the intolerant god-pod BC

You ignore the postive voices.

Does that mean you ignore the positive voices in Islam? Or, is their religion ok with you?

[Blue_Chill]

173. god-pod? That's lame even for you

BTW I have no problems finding the positives messages in Islam as I enjoy sitting down with friends and discussing the aspects of religion you don't hear on CNN.

[Brian Sweat]

143. By doing more than whispering under your breath

that you do not agree with their idology. When was the last time that the leader of a major Christain denomination went on TV and said "Fallwell, Robertson and their ilk do not represent all of Christainity and we repudiate their hateful ideology."

I hear Muslims on TV all the time saying that the radicals do not represent all of Islam, but never Christains.

You may not be able to shut Falwell and Robertson up, but you can drown them out with a chorus of disapproval, but instead you would rather whine because a couple of "anti-thiest" made fun of Falwell and Robertson.

[sangha]

146. Be reasonable

When was the last time that the leader of a major Christain denomination went on TV

Believe it or not, Christians leaders can not require the networks to broadcast their messages. Not even the President can do that.

TV news thrives on the sensational. There's nothing sensational about a Christian denouncing Xtian fundamentalists, and there's no money in it. If they did broadcast that, they'd boycott the network (leading to losses in revenue) and they'd demand equal time. IOW, you'd end up with the Falwell's getting more air time.

Non-fundie Christian leaders do criticize the fundamentalists. People just don't get to hear about it unless they search for it.

you would rather whine because a couple of "anti-thiest" made fun of Falwell and Robertson.

Not true. I don't see anyone here complaining about Falwell and Robertson being made fun of. The complaints of anti-religious bigotry by atheists is based on remarks by atheists who consider all religious people to be "god-pods" or "dupes" (or a number of other slurs. I only listed the two I remember from this one thread)

[Brian Sweat]

149. I am being reasonable

I am being reasonable, there are more ways to get your message out than the major networks.


"TV news thrives on the sensational. There's nothing sensational about a Christian denouncing Xtian fundamentalists, and there's no money in it. If they did broadcast that, they'd boycott the network (leading to losses in revenue) and they'd demand equal time. IOW, you'd end up with the Falwell's getting more air time.

They already have "unequal time" and nothing would be more sensational than one religious leader castigating another leader.

[sangha]

184. No, you're not reasonable

I am being reasonable, there are more ways to get your message out than the major networks.

That's not what you said earlier. It's OK IMO to change your argument, but I'm no mind reader, and it's unreasonable for you to expect me to know that you meant more than the major networks when that's what you posted.

They already have "unequal time" and nothing would be more sensational than one religious leader castigating another leader.

So why do you think the religious wingnuts getting even MORE time would be a good thing? And I already explained why the media won't broadcast that, even if it is sensational. You chose to ignore that argument, the same way you have ignored those religious leaders who have spoken out against the fundies.

[Brian Sweat]

189. No

"That's not what you said earlier. It's OK IMO to change your argument, but I'm no mind reader, and it's unreasonable for you to expect me to know that you meant more than the major networks when that's what you posted."

Only because you choose to focus on part of what I said.



"So why do you think the religious wingnuts getting even MORE time would be a good thing? "

Straw man. You said that wingnuts would demand equal time. They already have more than equal time. They would have no basis for this demand.

"And I already explained why the media won't broadcast that, even if it is sensational."

You're logic for why the media won't broadcast it, it that they fundies would boycott, why don't you boycott. If Falwall and Roberts are so unrepresentative of main stream Christainity, then it must gall you that they are the lone voices of Christainity in the media. Why don't your leaders contact the media and say, "look, you guys are making us look bad and if you don't stop, we will call for boycotts?"

"You chose to ignore that argument, the same way you have ignored those religious leaders who have spoken out against the fundies.'

I didn't ignore the argument, I disagree with it. I don't ignore your leaders, I just can't hear them.

[mopaul]

148. such language from a christian! do you kiss your mom with that mouth?

for shame. such language would never be tolerated at my mom's church.

[Blue_Chill]

175. Yawn old tactic

try to use what you think to be christian rules against them.

NEXT!

[drdigi420]

155. They arent the voice constantly

preaching on DU. You are.

I'll make you a deal: You don't bring up your religion and I won't make fun of it.

[Blue_Chill]

177. I don't bring it up

I defend it. I've yet to start a post "My religion and why I love it"

[bloom]

160. you see what you want to see

I don't have any more control of the media giving the forum to the likes of Falwell than I do of them promoting the Bush agenda.

The Quaker church that I attend promotes liberal causes as much or more than any group - religious or political - in town. The Quakers and the Unitarian Univeralists were the ones who organized and were the majority of people protesting the war every week at the courthouse.

It was at my church that I heard about an anti-Bush protest that I attended.

There are religious groups that are a lot more liberal than you know. They are probably a lot more liberal philosophically than you realized. And I am happy to be associated with a group that decides actions based on consensus as opposed to a heirarchy. The church - meeting only works because of the involvement of those who attend and participate.

(There are Quaker meetings that are quite conservative, as well. More of the evangelical variety.)

[Terwilliger]

165. too bad

I don't have any more control of the media giving the forum to the likes of Falwell than I do of them promoting the Bush agenda.

How about, the Christian churches renounce ALL HATRED, IGNORANCE, AND INTOLERANCE that is perpetrated by "Christians"

Then I'll care about the positives.

[bloom]

182. I can safely say that Quakers do renouce HATRED, IGNORANCE, AND INTOLERANC

You seem to think that there is someone like the Pope who speaks for all Christians. That is simply not the case. I've seen CSpan put people on there like Grahams's son. As if he speaks for Christians. The media would like there to be a spokesperson. There is not. There is no more a spokeperson for Christians than there is for 44 year olds.

Sorry. I speak for myself.



I do agree with a lot of things (not necessarily everything) that Quakers as a group say, however, including from the FCNL site:

"We seek a world free of war and the threat of war
We seek a society with equality and justice for all
We seek a community where every person's potential may be fulfilled
We seek an earth restored"

[Character Assassin]

167. What an ignorant statement

The face of Christainity in America is intolerance.

Only to those stupid enough to either (a) want it to be or (b) only look so far.

As long as the Christain community allows the Falwell and Roberts to act as its voice, then you will reap what you sow.

So now various aspects of a community you assume to attribute certain characterstics to must act to control things it has no control over?

Brilliant.

[Az]

169. The concept being conveyed

Is that the vocal part of the Christian religions is typically the shrill religious right. As to looking into religions that is not the responsibility of those that are not part of it. If you wish your religion to be represented properly it is up to you to defend it. There are thousands of beliefs in this world. We do not have the time to explore each and every one of them. Some of us may take the time to explore the many varied layers of different beliefs but that is dependent on their interests. I would ask you to what level have you explored Humanism or Taoism or any other philosophy or religious belief? Do not judge the entirety of the world on the representation of a vocal few.

[shimmergal]

170. What the #@%&* do you mean by "allows?"

We have freedom of speech and freedom of religion in this country (so far; at least we're supposed to.) The rest of us can't keep Falwell, Roberts et al. from speaking out and defining what they say as "the Christian position."

The real problem is that the news media echo this approach. Seldom do they refer to more liberal denominations or spokespeople as
Christian. This is fairly recent. In the 60s, with its anti-war activism and theological ferment, "Christian" was used all across the spectrum.

Once again we've lost out to the conservatives' tactics of defining the terms.

[Az]

101. Thats some mote you got there n/t

[drdigi420]

108. preaching about other's preaching

still

[Blue_Chill]

120. Hello there preacher man!

:hi:

[drdigi420]

157. silly

pot. kettle. black.

I don't preach. I rebutt your preaching.

[Blue_Chill]

179. Sure you do

keep telling yourself that. It must suck for a anti-theist to realise that he is acting just like those he hates. Preach on!

[Terwilliger]

127. Hey...that cross is disrespectful...get rid of it

[Blue_Chill]

92. Anti-theists are the problem not Atheists.

There are many Atheist on this board that respectful to others.

[drdigi420]

111. too much to ask for you theists to respect

anti-theists

we can't dis your beliefs, but you can dis our belief that your belief is bullshit.

pot. kettle.

[Blue_Chill]

121. Respect anti-theist? That isn't possible.

Your beliefs are to bash ours. The only way to respect you is sit back and take a beating quietly. Sorry but that's not going to happen.

Atheists I have no problem with, because I don't preach. You believe what you want and I'll do the same. But those that are like you that need to attack every chance you get, I have NO respect for you.

[drdigi420]

156. o the hypocrisy

can't be a holy roller for too long without your hypocrisy showing can you?

It's funny that, when an atheist rebutts a christian assertion, it's an 'attack', but when a christian attacks an atheist, it's A-OK.

I'm sorry if you are offended by my belief that your belief is bullshit. I'm not offended when you preach and preach and preach nonsense about 'god' and other mythical characters.

I will rebutt your assertions, though. Too bad you can't seem to be able to take what you dish out.

[Blue_Chill]

181. I'm sorry but your facts are wrong

If someone asks a serious question that isn't loaded or obvious flame bait they will get a serious answer. However when a anti-theist "rebutts a christian assertion" by stating something like "Falwell and Robertson represent all of you weak minded idiots" they will get what they deserve.

[Terwilliger]

129. look honey, you get what you give

if you don't like that, maybe you should work on it

[Cheswick2.0]

144. where do you see anywhere on DU, an attack on atheism?

Where do you see the rest of us telling you are wrong in your beliefs, or calling you names?

[drdigi420]

159. Yes, all the time

constant attacks

when we state our beliefs, we are called attackers, bashers, etc.

why the double standard?

[Terwilliger]

166. did you see my first post in this thread?

I simply pointed out that atheism is not a religion (like others did) and the thread became about atheism.

Do you think the atheists started something with other atheists, or do you think that believers came in and started dictating what was what?

[Cheswick2.0]

140. while Christians and Jews disagree on some theology

you wont find any Christians here calling Jews insulting names or vice versa. Anti-Theists have no problem being insulting to anyone who beleives in God. Just read the thread

[termo]

81. do you mean only religious people are tolerant ???

LOL

[drdigi420]

105. No wonder DU is so anti-christian

with this many intelligent people on board

[Blue_Chill]

122. Preach on brotha!

:hi:

[drdigi420]

158. broken record

maybe if you keep repeating the lie, others will believe it.

did you go to the karl rove school of bullshitting?

[Blue_Chill]

183. Rove? LoL!

There are just as many preachers like yoruself on his side of the fence. What you think anti-theist are all left wingers? LOL!

[drdigi420]

186. I never made an assertion that any religion follows any party

I just pointed out that you like to continually lie to support your argument. A very Rovesque tactic.

[catpower2000]

62. Buddhahist? nt

[thom1102]

68. okay, I fixed my typo...sorry

[ewagner]

63. In my case..

Anglican = "other"

[liberalpragmatist]

84. No Hinduism?

I'm Hindu -- most religious people would probably consider me an atheist, however, since my own beliefs reject a physical God. I consider myself a Hindu though, culturally, philosophically, and religiously, in that I accept Hindu teachings about life and the world, about tolerance for all beliefs, and other liberal principles of Hinduism and consider the various manifestations of "God" (Brahman) to be, in essence, what each individual is striving to achieve. If one is interested in learning and education, they are striving for "Saraswati" (the goddess of learning), though I don't actually believe in a physical Saraswati. To me, the various physical depictions of Hindu incarnations are a way of expressing oneself, what one wants to achieve, what one believes to be important to his or her life.

I'm not alone in this view: Hinduism doesn't reject atheism, and there are entire movements w/in Hinduism (just like w/in Buddhism) that reject the idea of a physical God. Those Hindus and Buddhists that DO believe in a physical God don't generally find us to be heretics either, b/c in Hinduism and Buddhism, what is important is what one actually does in their life on Earth, not what one believes -- the important thing is how you act, and whatever comes next, whether that be nothing or something, will take care of itself.

On another note, I reject the caste system and untouchability -- both of which many Hindu scholars have concluded have very little inherent basis in Hinduism -- they're cultural and social institutions that thousands of years ago were laced into the religion, and some religious myths were concocted to supply that view of the world. Historically, there was a long period before the caste system and also a long period when it was quite fluid. Hinduism is known for constantly changing and evolving, and I do think that in time mainstream Hinduism will reject the caste system and untouchability -- something that is already happening.

[Az]

98. I find a lot in common

with Hindism and the Roman/Greek pagan gods. They were more of an intellectualization of the human condition. Externalizing the various internal conflicts that go on within the human psyche. They form a tapestry explaining in story form the various ethical and moral positions of the dominant society. The collective learning contained within the ongoing stories of the interactions of the gods.

[bemildred]

89. Two seed-in-the-spirit predestinarian baptist.

Heh.
But seriously, what do you need this stuff for?
The whole world is magic.
But there is no special magic.
I believe I'll have another beer.

[SyracuseDemocrat]

94. Large percentage of atheists/agnostics

93% of Americans profess to believe in a God, and 43% of DUers are either agnostic or atheist. :shrug:

[drdigi420]

106. This is a more intelligent sampling of the pop.

which naturally results in more atheism.

[Atlant]

109. DUers: The few -- the thoughtful. (NT)

[flyingfish]

118. About 27% of Americans are agnostic/atheists

Sorry, I do not have a link.
I have a book.

[yankeeinlouisiana]

96. Philosophy - Sabaean

Rituals - Santaria

It's sort of complicated.

[activationproducts]

97. Church of the Subgenius

Hey what about Bob Dobb's Church of the Subgenius? That should be included!

[drdigi420]

110. It should

it's just as valid as the others

[election_2004]

99. Polytheist here

I believe that many deities exist in our universe, and create chaos.

[Az]

100. Na

Thats just Eris ....fnord. :evilgrin:

[MiltonLeBerle]

104. I converted to Atheism, but was raised as a Lutheran, Missouri Synod-

That's the "show-me" Synod.

But they couldn't.

So I eventually became a fairly devout atheist.

[ryharrin]

107. I'm an athieistic agnostic.

I admit that I have no way of knowing if there is a god or not, but lean towards not.

[DinahMoeHum]

116. Other: Orthodox Christian - earlier forms of Christianity

IOW, those of the Eastern Orthodox branches of Christianity,
ie. Russian Orthodox, Syrian Orthodox, Greek Orthodox,
Ethiopian Orthodox, Coptics

Myself: Armenian Apostolic


While these versions of the Christian faith are more traditional and (some say) more conservative than most, they are definitely NOT in the same category as the phony-baloney born-again a-holes * subscribes to. These churches, in fact, spoke out against the US going to war with Iraq.



O8)

[John_H]

153. non practicing

Greek Orthodox

[devarsi]

117. Uhm, there are over half a BILLION Hindus....

but Wiccans made the list, and Hinduism did not?

No offense to Wiccans.

Some of my best friends are Wiccan.

[thom1102]

135. I chose the religions based on my own personal experience

with religion, and though there are over half a billion Hindu's, I personally know none, nor have I ever known any in my life and travels, and many of my aquaintances are wiccan, and that group is growing rapidly. I meant no offense, but most Hindu's are of south central Asian descent, and while their numbers are growing in the US, they are still among the smallest minority groups in the US, and I only had 10 spots.

[NeonLX]

138. No Sikhs, either...

Those Sardars are always taking it on the chin.

[LuCifer]

131. Other = Church Of Satan

Gee, what a shocker eh? BE YOUR OWN GOD! Thank you, and F. W!

Lu Cifer, preparing the pitchforks for republiKKKans!

[Az]

133. By any chance

did you used to hang out on Dalnet?

[LuCifer]

163. er?

What is Dalent? If it's anything like the newsgroups, man I'd rather barf! Is it just me, or are the newsgroups THE right wing troll hang out or what?!

Lu Cifer, I wish my case of Bush-a-reha would stop!

[ibegurpard]

132. I want to know who the Mormons are!

I was raised Mormon and it's practically heresy to be Mormon and a Democrat!

[Az]

134. Yikes

And they practice shunning as I understand it. Could be a bit messy to out oneself as a Democrat in a Mormon household I would expect.

[Isere]

147. Mormon and Democrat

"I was raised Mormon and it's practically heresy to be Mormon and a Democrat!".....

My niece is Mormon and Democrat so you are not the only one.

As for me, my religion is The Anti-Republican Party Faith and none other.

[shimmergal]

176. Nevada's Senator Harry Reid is a Democrat and a Mormon.

In fact, here in Nevada politics it's not a totally rare situation.

[sujan]

171. me

It's not like that I follow it.

[NeonLX]

136. ELCA Lutheran, with a healthy agnostic streak

God is too big to confine between the covers of some old book.

[mandyky]

139. My other

I am a sudent of A Course in Miracles, and consider myself a smorgashboard type believer. New age and borrow from eastern philosophies.

[Vernunft]

141. I´m an ordained Deacon of the Church Of Satan

And I´m NOT joking either...

[Mari333]

154. Atheism isnt a religion

If it was , it would get Tax Breaks. It doesnt. Its merely non belief in goddesses and gods.

[thom1102]

164. Okay, actually read through the thread before you

pitch in your overly beaten to death two cents!:grr:

[Mari333]

190. Sorry, I dont allow strangers to "give me orders".

take a flying leap. Thank you.

[tpub]

161. atheist

but I don't consider it a religion, just the opposite, in fact

[varun]

168. Agnostic, but Hindu background

was born in India, to a non practicing Hindu family...but am Agnostic now...

I sometimes go to MCC (mostly gay Christian Church) with my partner, but only for social reasons.

[LS_Webmaster]

172. i voted agnostic, but..

i prefer to call myself a scientist. I base my decisions on experimental observations and mathematical reasoning. Since I have not seen much evidence that would support many of the stories in the Bible, I choose, at the moment, to believe that christianity is just another idea, concept, or whatever you want to call it that is still left to be proven.

[deutsey]

178. A Unitarian Universalist Buddhist who Likes the Teachings of Christ

:hi:

[Character Assassin]

187. Student of Zen for many years.

[flyingfish]

188. Seems like most people on DU profess to some religious belief

Majority seems to win in a democracy(except in Presidential elections)