Excellent Callers on CSPAN today.

[Ripley]

In response to WJ's question "Should graphic pictures of the war be shown in the media?" about the bodies strung up yesterday on the bridge in Iraq. All the repuke Bush-lovin' imbeciles said NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, our children's eyes!!!!!!!!

But a few great calls came in. One woman from Atlanta said yes they should be and she couldn't understand why all of these people think the Passion of Christ bloody violence and torture is okay for kids, yet what is going on right now in the world funded by our tax dollars is not.

A guy from Wisconsin said yes and that he bet all of those who don't think the pictures should be shown probably were for this war but don't want to see the consequences of the war. He also said in response to a woman who said a written account would suffice....yeah, just like 9/11 huh? We didn't really need images for the towers coming down, words would have sufficed. :eyes:

One other guy said pictures work in swaying public opinion, like the NVA being shot in the head pic from Vietnam plus the little girl being napalmed in Vietnam. Those images helped Americans finally demand an end to that debacle.

I'm glad the NYT showed the images front page, unadulterated. Wake up morans!!!!!

[chelsea0011]

1. It was the media showing the pictures from 'Nam that changed America

If the media should be prohibited from showing these horrors, what is the point of an independent media. What the Crooked Ones want is their sanitized version of what really is happening in Iraq. Remember the first Iraq War? The people running that one, many of the same military and politicians still running this one, were very open about not letting the media cover that war the way Vietnam was covered.

[Ishoutandscream]

12. Yes, and the nightly casualty list on the National News

also helped sway public opinion, like "when the hell is this mess going to end?" Iraq is another long quagmire waiting to happen. We're going to need the media to do exactly what it did in the late 60's and early 70's, but let's not hold our breath.

[fleetus]

2. I didn't know the opinions were so polarized.

I'm just dropping into DU after a 1 or 2 week break. When I first heard the news I didn't realize that most anti-war people would want pictures shown and most pro-war people would not want the pictures shown.

Even though I'm against the war, I haven't tried to see pictures (the descriptions sounds gruesome enough). And I was thinking pro war people would want the pictures out so they can say, "look what these terraists do to us... let's get 'em back!"

In retrospect, I can see why anti-war people would want the pictures out and also why pro-war people don't want pictures out. I just didn't think it would be so polarized.

[Ripley]

3. All sides of the horror of war should be shown.

Since our media decided to parade the pictures of Saddam's sons on all media, up close, why shouldn't American's get a view of what is happening to our guys?

If Americans are sheltered (as they are from seeing body bags) from seeing any images of the death and maiming of Americans and other "coalition" people, how would they understand the graveness of the situation. War is hell, not heck.

Actually I think the videotape showing the Iraqi's smiling and cheering as they hung up the mutilated bodies of Americans was more of a lesson. 1) These are Iraqi's, not foreign fighters, not Syrians. 2) They hate us and for a lot of complicated reasons, but foremost they want us to quit occupying their country.

Americans have not seen any of the children murdered in this war through mainstream media. You think that's a good thing?

[bobbieinok]

6. Savage wants the pictures shown so Americans will see the evil

face of the enemy and support W and demand he blow the enemy up

[LibDemAlways]

4. This brings to mind Mommy Bush's "Beautiful Mind"

comment. Rightwingers love death and destruction -- as long as the US is on the giving end - think "Shock and Awe" and the public display of Saddam's sons' bloodied corpses. The media couldn't get enough of that.

When the US is on the receiving end, well that's different. Then repuke minds turn "beautiful." Such hypocrisy.

[tabasco]

5. Just this morning on the History Channel ...

they showed the GI being dragged through the streets of Mogadishu. Why can they show the horror of Mogadishu, but not the horror of Fallujah? The people need to see the brutal reality of war.

[bobbieinok]

7. because Magadishu is ' Clinton's fault' and Fallujah must NEVER

be seen as W's fault

[liberalhistorian]

8. EXACTLY,

never mind that Poppy Bush, King George I, was actually responsible for getting us involved in Somalia (right before he left office, leaving Clinton to clean up the mess, typical RW tactic, and ESPECIALLY for the Bushies). And that image is what helped us get out of there, finally, because people saw what was happening and demanded it.

[BabsSong]

9. Heard part of it and thought about how the right wing insists on

being kept in the dark. They don't want their minds bothered. They want nothing that would stop the pace of the Reich. They don't want knowledge to get out there because it might interfer with propaganda. And they want to bring DEMOCRACY to Iraq---they wouldn't know democracy if they fucking fell over it. Hitler would have loved to have these people in Germany 60 years ago.

[ProfessorGAC]

10. That's Why They Want LEADERS!

They don't want representatives, they want to be led. Having people as LEADERS means they are voting for someone who will tell them what to think, rather than voting for someone who will think what the people are thinking.

It's much easier to be led than to be forced to tax their marginal intellects.
The Professor

[IrateCitizen]

11. "I don't want to think. I just want to follow orders."

This is what an extremist RW Platoon Sergeant of mine in the Army Reserves said to me once, I kid you not. This guy and I got along great personally, but this was the gist of his mindset with regards to the world.

It's thinking like this that allowed the Nazis to grow to the point they did. :scared:

It's all part of the conservative/Hobbesian mindset. The world is a dangerous place, and the basic nature of people is toward wickedness. Therefore, you need stern, authoritative leaders to tell you what to do and everyone else just needs to know their place in the hierarchy and do what they're told.

[ProfessorGAC]

13. As Usual, We Agree

Long time no see, Chris. Glad to see you back in the same time slot that i populate.
The Professor

[IrateCitizen]

14. Oh, I've been around, Prof. In the meantime...

... I'd be interested in your thoughts on this thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1319716

Of course, it's a thread about economics, so I'm surprised you haven't weighed in already. ;-)

[ProfessorGAC]

15. I'll Have To Make Sure the Library Gets This Book

Your early synopsis makes me think that Greider and i have a lot in common. I'm a propronent of the social responsibility theories of microeconomics. There is plenty of data to indicate that those companies that have always shown such concern for local stakeholders have been long term successes.

Microeconomics isn't my baliwick, but like anyone else with an MBA and a background in industry, i understand marketing and finance well enough. This guy's basic thesis appears to be consistent with my belief about the poisoning of the corporate cultures in the last 25 years.

I'll have to read Greider's book. Thanks.
The Professor

[Ripley]

16. It's really scary isn't it?

That so many Americans want to live in their little cocoon. I think they'd prefer the media blackout ALL news about the war...in fact I heard someone on a daytime talk show say just that. She avoided every story about the war because it was so depressing. :nuke: her bimbo brain to hell. It just shocks me that these people trust the government to tell the truth and do the right thing without question, after our recent history.

Why do so many Americans take pride in wearing the badge of ignorance? I know, I know....broken schools, propaganda and laziness.

[Catherine Vincent]

17. I was just about to start a thread on this.

That last caller on the open phones segment regarding the question "Should graphic pictures of the war be shown?" was the most excellent statement in a long while. (Probably a Democrat) He said those that are for this war are probably the ones that don't want to see the consequences of the war. And he also said if they won't show the graphic pictures from Iraq then they shouldn't have shown us the videos of 9/11. (I know, I basically repeated what you said in your original post, but this was worth repeating.)

That last caller was so right on. And I'm glad he was the last caller because everyone always remembers the last call.