People are misinformed about the four killed yesterday...

[Ilsa]

I was posting on another message board in a thread about the deaths yesterday. The original poster was very upset about the soldiers' deaths and the civilian deaths. I mentioned that the "civilians" were highly paid security detail that chose to be there, unlike the soldiers. I got blasted because they are there to "rebuild" Iraq, so I directed the poster to the Blackwater site where they are mourning their losses.

I'm not unsympathetic about the deaths. But I deeply resent the media's attempt to classify these people as "civilians" as if they are there to teach school.

Anyone else seeing this or am I off base?

[Randomthought]

1. I agree

Mercenaries aren't civilians

[montanacowboy]

2. You are on base

on another post here this morning the group taking credit for these killings are referencing it as payback for the killing of the Hamas leader and mention these "contractors" as CIA and MOSSAD - remember that the US has bases inside Israel which are very secret

[theHandpuppet]

5. Yes, although I heard on the news yesterday...

... that at least one of the four was carrying a DoD ID, I've heard no mention of it since. Curious, no?

[Salviati]

3. I am sorry to hear about their deaths

as I am sorry to hear about any deaths related to this unmitigated fiasco in Iraq, but there is the old saying: "Live by the sword, die by the sword..."

These folks knew exactly what they were getting into.

[NWHarkness]

4. What comes to mind when you hear the word "contractors"

I am sure the majority of people are under the impression that these guys were there to build a school or pave a road, not that they were mercenaries.

[BurtWorm]

7. Exactly. That was my first thought.

But there were weapons in there SUVs, and those were the tools of their trade.

It doesn't make what happened to them any less horrible, though. I feel for their families, even if these people went into the situation with their eyes wider open than the average Guardsman over there.

[AtTheEndOfTheDay]

10. Charles Bronson

[skypilot]

6. I posted this in another thread.

According to the evening news last night there actually are civilians lining up to work in Iraq. I mean real CIVILIANS. Apparently, they need everything from cooks to janitors to computer experts and people are applying for these jobs. If this report is true there might very well be American civilians getting killed over there soon.

[Mountainman]

13. I heard today that one of the guys killed was unemployed for 2 years

He was a Vietnam veteran and needed a job. He was opposed to the war but took the job to support his family.

There are always civilians who work in the war zone as support for the military.

[Tuba]

25. There are enough civilians in Iraq

with somewhere around a 70% unemployment rate in Iraq, there are probably enough qualified Iraqi locals to do most of the real rebuilding there. I imagine that it hurts the Iraqi morale to have an American come over and do your job while you are broke and without work. Same sorta thing happened in Viet Nam.

[skypilot]

26. Exactly.

And that's one of the reasons I'm worried that those American civilians are going to turn into sitting ducks. The Iraqis are going to see the Americans as invading and occupying their country AND taking jobs from them. Not a good mix.

[newyawker99]

29. Hi Tuba!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[radwriter0555]

8. Those "civilians' were mercenaries. Murderers and body guards for hire.

I have no sympathy.

[11 Bravo]

28. So they deserved to be burned, dismembered, and hung?

Even if your totally unsubstantiated charge that they were "murderers" could be proven, that still seems a little harsh. This is precisely the type of post that Pigboy, Hannity, and other repug pukemeisters love to cherry pick as proof of what "heartless jackals" all "libruls" are.

[DenverDem]

9. Those guys were highly paid mercenaries

who are siphoning off money that the military should be using to equip and maintain the troops.

It's a way to transfer wealth to bushler cronies and have black ops on the ground that are not answerable to anyone. As if the CIA is answerable to anyone but their Power Elite shadow government overlords.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

11. yup..... USA Blackwater hire by bush* to keep order in Iraq

http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2004/03/1687956.php

Gary Johnson, president of USA Blackwater, told the Guardian UK's Jonathon Franklin that former commandos training in North Carolina will be sent to Iraq for a year and a half. Their job will be to guard oil wells from saboteurs.

"We scour the ends of the earth to find professionals - the Chilean commandos are very, very professional and they fit within the Blackwater system," said Johnson.

The Guardian story notes that several of the 60 recruits served during Augusto Pinochet's brutal military government.

USA Blackwater isn't the only security firm hiring ex-military of disturbing origin. Last month, The Forward's Marc Perelman reported that contractor Erinys International utilized "former henchman of South Africa's apartheid regime" to guard oil facilities and train new Iraqi police.

"François Strydom, who was killed in the January 28 bombing of a hotel in Baghdad, was a former member of the Koevoet, a notoriously brutal counterinsurgency arm of the South African military that operated in Namibia during the neighboring state’s fight for independence in the 1980s. His colleague Deon Gouws, who was injured in the attack, is a former officer of the Vlakplaas, a secret police unit in South Africa," wrote Perelman.

Factual data on the contracted military presence in Iraq is difficult to obtain. The Center For Public Integrity's list of U.S. contractors in Iraq, garnered from government agencies awarding contracts, ­failed to list several security firms now in Iraq, including the ones mentioned here.

There is no tally of mercenaries injured or killed in Iraq, nor, of course, the number of Iraqis they've killed or wounded.

Estimates for the number of private soldiers now in Iraq range from at least 10,000 to over 20,000, with more expected to pour in as the security situation worsens and as countries hesitate to commit their own troops beyond June 30 hand over of civilian authority to the interim Iraq Governing Council.

As The Washington Post reported last week, the Coalition Provisional Authority earmarked $100 million to replace U.S. troops guarding Baghdad's "Green Area" (current home of the CPA and USAID contractors, and future site of the massive new US Embassy) with private security for the first 14 months after the hand over.

In an unexpected move, the U.N. confirmed March 4 that it would seek private security in the aftermath of an October report blaming its own "dysfunctional" security operation for the "needless casualties" suffered during the August 19 suicide bombing on U.N. Headquarters in Baghdad.

Soldiers from all over the world, including the U.S. and UK, have expressed their desire to leave their countries' military for the high pay security firms offer for their special skills.

However, 500 mercenaries returning to Fiji offer a cautionary tale for soldiers of fortune trusting their livelihood to private companies. In a suit against employer Global Risk Strategies, the men are alleging the UK-based company shortchanged their pay by a collective $12.5 million.

[prolesunited]

16. Corporate armies

invading a country near you soon. Why did I take the red pill? :-(

[ezee]

12. Agreed

Though I am sorry for the deaths caused by the lies of this adminstration. We should all morn for the loss of truth and life.

[madrchsod]

14. you are right

they were hired guards. they knew exactly where they were going and they knew the area was extremely dangerous. they did it because they were being paid large dollars to do it. i feel sorry for their families because of the horrid way their loved ones were treated after their deaths.other than that,it`s just another day in iraq.

[leftchick]

15. are they aware these "contractors" are paid for with...

US Taxpayers' $$$$$? I am certain they are not there to "rebuild" either! :eyes:

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

18. gas is $2.17 because bush* wants it that way to ram cheney's energy ..

energy bill up our arses....bush plans to blame obstructionist dems for high gas prices period.

[jimshoes]

19. Why does the Army need mercenaries

to provide cover for the Army? Just curious.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

21. For two reasons...

One, we simply don't have enough men over there to do all that needs doing. We are ridiculously short.

Two, there are certain jobs these "civilians" can do that the armed forces can't. Stuff "outside" of the law, if you get my drift.

As for January, we had over 10,000 mercenaries over there, with more on the way.

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/03/05/1078464637030.html

US hires mercenaries for Iraq role
By Jonathan Franklin
Santiago
March 6, 2004

The US is hiring mercenaries in Chile to replace its soldiers on security duty in Iraq. A Pentagon contractor has begun recruiting former commandos, other soldiers and seamen, paying them up to $US4000 ($A5300) a month to guard oil wells against attack by insurgents.

Last month Blackwater USA flew a first group of about 60 former commandos, many of whom had trained under the military government of Augusto Pinochet, from Santiago to a 970-hectare training camp in North Carolina.

From there they would be taken to Iraq, where they were expected to stay between six months and a year, the president of Blackwater USA, Gary Jackson, said. "We scour the ends of the earth to find professionals - the Chilean commandos are very, very professional and they fit within the Blackwater system."

snip...

The privatisation of security in Iraq is growing as the US seeks to reduce its commitment of troops. At the end of last year there were 10,000 hired security personnel in Iraq.



I suspect the reason "civilians" are being attacked is because they are doing some of the very dirty work work there, and the locals don't like it.

There was an article awhile back about a new type of ammo being used over there by the "civilans". It's so lethal, it is illegal for the Army to use, but these "civilians" love it. One shot just about blows a person in half.

Found it:

http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-2426405.php

1-shot killer
This 5.56mm round has all the stopping power you need — but you can’t use it. Here’s why:

By John G. Roos
Special to the Times


Ben Thomas and three colleagues were driving north out of Baghdad in an SUV on a clear mid-September morning, headed down a dirt road into a rural village, when gunmen in several surrounding buildings opened fire on them. In a brief but intense firefight, Thomas hit one of the attackers with a single shot from his M4 carbine at a distance he estimates was 100 to 110 yards.

He hit the man in the buttocks, a wound that typically is not fatal. But this round appeared to kill the assailant instantly.

“It entered his butt and completely destroyed everything in the lower left section of his stomach ... everything was torn apart,” Thomas said.

Thomas, a security consultant with a private company contracted by the government, recorded the first known enemy kill using a new — and controversial — bullet.

The bullet is so controversial that if Thomas, a former SEAL, had been on active duty, he would have been court-martialed for using it. The ammunition is “nonstandard” and hasn’t passed the military’s approval process.



If I saw that happen to my countrymen a few dozen times, I might get a little pissed off too.

[rock]

20. On base

'Nuff said

[sampsonblk]

22. That ain't all they are screwing up

MSNBC just referred to the killers as "terrorists." This misses the whole point, IMHO. I saw kids in that crowd. Some of these people are Iraqis who don't want us there.

Hating Americans doesn't make one a terrorist. We should insist on a distinction. Terrorists we cannot win over to our side. But a reasonable foreign policy will go a long way toward getting regular arabs on our side. From what I can see, we need to get a real foreign policy as soon as possible. Or pretty soon, the whole world will be a terrorist.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ilsa]

24. I missed it.

:donut:

[Insider]

27. blackwater does the training?

i also feel for the guys who lost their lives. but this can't be good pr for blackwater if they train our forces on how to protect themselves in a combat zone. and i understand surprise attacks. and even if these people were not trainers themselves, it has to look bad for blackwater.