How do you define "patriotism"? I ask because...

[libbygurl]

...I'm genuinely curious. I am not a US citizen, I grew up in a different culture, had a different education. After having lived here for many years, I feel that patriotism seems to be more seriously and overtly expressed by US citizens than citizens in other parts of the world.

Frankly, I sometimes am disturbed by the way "patriotism" has been equated with chauvinistic jingoism by the rhetoric of some, which brings to mind the quip, "Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel."

Not to mention the Orwellian Patriot Act.

Perhaps a huge question, but I thank all who take the time to reply.

[bluestateguy]

1. Full support for the president's policies

and never questioning Him.

Didn't you get the memo?

[GreenArrow]

2. patriotism

is a third rate virtue.

[bloom]

3. what it means to me

is not what it means to a lot of people.

To me it means believing in a country and being able to have pride in it. To believe that there are principles like liberty and justice and that most people play their part to make it work. That people respect others right to have religion or not...and so on and so forth as described in the Constitution.

To me the anti-patriotic are those people - citizens, judges and other officials who are working to destroy the Constitution and dismantel the rights and principles that people have worked for the benefit of everybody over the years.

[salib]

5. Patriotism is Nationalism, which is

At best often just xenophobic convenience. I think we need more encompassing values. Nationalism, by its very definition (a "Nation") is so steeped in arbitrary history, yet obvious "circling of the wagons." Am I a patriot? Always have been. Believe deeply in what I was taught about "Freedom", the Constitution, "Liberty." However, when it comes down to it, why is that American especially? Especially now?

[bloom]

9. I was taking the point of view

that nationalism is bad and is the us vs. mentality. While patriotism hopes for the positive and the possible and tries to improve what good traits exist for a common group of people such as the citizens of the US.

But you go ahead and consider them (Patriotism is Nationalism) one and the same if you wish.

[salib]

14. I guess I still have to "go ahead" and see them as the same

Though, I do not like that idea. However, if not a patriot for the U.S. (the Constitution, tradition, geography), then what am I a patriot to? The world? Humanity? Truth? Values?

For me, these are not empty rhetorical questions. They are an expression of frustration. I am not sure I can claim to be "patriotic" anymore, with what this country is doing.

[bloom]

19. I think patriotism is an idealistic thing

It could be that to feel patriotic - ones idea includes the belief that your country HELPS others who need it, and so on and so forth.

I am patriotic only in the sense that I want to believe that our country can get back on track to some extent. Otherwise - I'll just want to leave.

[Djinn]

4. As a non American

I agree with you - seems to be a bigger deal there than anywhere else.

Why should I be proud because I happened to be born in a certain country at a certain time in history when the borders where drawn that way? or in my case because when I was a kid my parents decided to move to another such country and took me with them.

Isn't it enough to like or be thankful for certain aspects of your country (it's history, laws, system of governance, flora/fauna tec etc) and dislike others.

The defintion is someone "devoted" to "their" country and willing to defend it. well that depends - I'm NOT willing to defend everything the people I share dirt with do - certainly not everything the government does. To me to be a real patriot would mean giving up critical thought and becoming sheep

[Martin Eden]

6. "chauvinistic jingoism"

Sadly, that's what patriotism has come to mean in this country.

My notion of patriotism -- at least what it should mean -- is adherence to and the willingness to sacrifice one's life if necessary for the ideals embodied in the Declaration of Independence and the United States Constitution.

This is not to be confused with nationalism -- the my country right or wrong flag-waving which is little more than tribalism on a larger scale.

True patriotism means exercising your rights and responsibilities as a citizen -- crticising and petitioning your government rather than blindly following when it abuses the power entrusted to it.

What the Bush administration demands of the American people is, in my opinion, the antithesis of patriotism.

[salib]

8. Again, is this not Nationalism

If it is the Constitution of a particular Nation, can it be anything else? I really do not know, but I do know that it is VERY fundamentally disturbing to me, since I AM a patriot, and am not sure what that means without Nationalism. Maybe, just maybe, I am indoctrinated like most others. As always, I guess.

Bummer

[iangb]

7. From here it looks like a competitive sport.

My flag is bigger than your flag etc.

We say, 'someone wrapping themselves in the flag is probably trying to hide something unpleasant'.

[Career Prole]

10. When I was a kid it was almost a virtue.

Now it's a weapon. Don't mistake what is now being trumpeted as patriotism as the actual article. Patriotism has been co-opted. We're trying to wrest it back now, but I fear it's been sullied beyond cleansing. Also avoid the "melting pot" if you can. Those people that are most desirous of everyone being 'just like them' aren't anyones' idea of the elusive ideal save their own.
I wonder if I'd be this bitter if it was Friday night.:(
Air America just made me laugh doing a redneck end-times bit.:D

[gater]

11. Patriotism is not

a word that can be defined save by individuals. To me, striving to do all I can to move our country's great experiment of Democracy forward, and striving to recapture the belief that our diversity and the world's diversity is an asset that allows our nation to achieve greatness for all humanity. If our profits could be directed to help build a better world along with a better land for ourselves, only then will we attain true and lasting greatness as a society. Patriotism is the faith that the goodness of our nation will once again emerge from the dark clouds of current events and we can once again concentrate on feeding the hungry, curing the sick, and ending the suffering on this planet and finally live up to the hope and dreams of the U.S. and the world that are represented on monuments like the Statue of Liberty, and at one time truly were beacons to the world. Patriotism is the love of that mythical land, The United States of America that exists only in my mind...but it might just reside in your mind too! Get it?

[salib]

15. But that is so close to "blind patriotism"

I am sorry, but I think that to say that "Patriotism is the love of that mythical land", is the same as what I hear from repugs, or any other flag-wavers. It is not easy, but perhaps we need do need to "imagine there's no countries." Then one can talk about "ideals" independent of geography, specific cultural tradition, or lineage. Or is this possible?

[x-g.o.p.er]

12. Patriotism is nothing to be ashamed of...

To me, patriotism is love of country. Say what you want, but America is a beacon of hope for millions around the world. There is nothing wrong with being proud of what your country has done to help the world, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with being proud of what we, as a country, have accomplished in a short period of time relative to the rest of the world.

What those on the extreme right are practicing is IMHO a type of sadistic nationalism, and are trying to convince everyone that is what true patriotism is.

True patriotism is recognizing that no matter how much you love your country, you realize it isn't infallible. And when your country does something wrong, having the courage to speak up and try to make her do the right thing, and make the government follow what the Constitution says it must do.

[Djinn]

20. but why be proud

this is an argument I'd currently like to have with our PM little johnnie, who likes to co-opt the ANZAC "spirit" and be "proud" of Australia's heritage yet stands firm to the idea that he can not and will not apologise to Aboriginal Australians for injustices they've suffered becaue "it's in the past" (that is thew past when he was merely an MP instead of PM LOL) how can you be PROUD of something you had nothing to do with without being ASHAMED as well???

If you are born somewhere it's an accident of birth how can any living American be "proud" of the Constitution...what did you have to do with it?

As for what the US has accomplished (I presume you mean democracy, freedom etc) well New Zeland and Australia managed THAT in less than 200 without slavery. That's not to say I'm "proud" of that cause they also had genocide, indentured labour etc etc None of which has much to do with me. It's the word "PROUD" that I just don't get in relation to a country

[libbygurl]

22. Well put, Djinn. I find myself nodding in agreement with a lot of what

you say.

[tabasco]

13. Democracy is not the natural state of affairs.

Survival of the fittest and strong-man government has been the norm for most of human history. Democracy is something which must be fought for. We had to fight to break off from a monarchy. We had to fight to defeat a backwards and repressive insurrection. We had to fight to defeat fascism in Europe. Being willing to fight for freedom itself is my definition of patriotism. That is why I consider many DU'ers patriots. Many of us are willing to fight the powers that are attempting to subvert our still largely free Nation.
Being a sheep and blindly following the leaders is being a patriot for fascism, not for America.

[salib]

18. Oooh, this is definitely getting to the point

But is it patriotism to fight so. Instead, is it simply an expression of liberty, freedom, the "rights of men", etc.? And thus, patriotism was always a diversion from what is truly important?

[leyton]

16. Patriotism:

Wanting what's best for your country in the same way that a responsible parent wants what's best for his or her child. Parents don't let their kids take other kids' food; patriots don't allow their countrymen to take other countries' oil. Parents want their kids to have clean rooms; patriots want their country's natural resources to be preserved.

Etymologically speaking, the word patriotism comes from the word 'father' and implies that the country is the parent in the relationship. But I think we're humans who can think for ourselves, and the relationship ought to be the other way around.

[bonemachine]

17. Patriotism

...is loving ones country, praising it when it does right, and correcting and guiding it when it does wrong.

[libbygurl]

21. THANK YOU, ALL, FOR THE THOUGHTFUL RESPONSES. THESE WERE

all enlightening, the variety of shades of what "patriotism" means to different people. I'm also not surprised that GENUINE THOUGHT and REFLECTION obviously goes into every DUer's posting. Thanks, guys, you're a wonderful bunch !