Need depleted uranium/Iraq expert

[amberdisc]

The below article claims what it says in the title - Radiation in Iraq Equals 250,000 Nagasaki Bombs.
Question is :are its claims true and if so can you provide links to sources backing it up?
(A "terrorism expert" in Finland claimed it's all bullshit. First thing I've established is that he knows little science and doesn't know how to back up his claim - cannot give the numbers.)
Thanks.

Full article:
link

There Are No Words ...
Radiation in Iraq Equals 250,000 Nagasaki Bombs
by Bob Nichols
www.dissidentvoice.org
March 27, 2004

<snip>

One Atom Bomb was dropped by Americans on the city of Hiroshima, the other on the city of Nagasaki three days later. About 170,000 people were incinerated immediately. It was a really big deal.

It is a measuring stick that plays very well in the rest of the world; but, not very well on Fox News (Fair & Balanced) (c) or the rest of the Fox-like American media. The Department of Energy still lists the Hiroshima and Nagasaki detonations as "tests." The admiral released the data months ago at a scientific conference in India. This article is the first report of the data in the United States. It will first be released on the Internet.

The admiral in India calculated the number of radioactive atoms in the Nagasaki bomb and compared it with the number in the 4,000,000 pounds of uranium left in Iraq from the 2003 war. Now, believe me, it is a lot more complex than that; but, that is essentially what the experts in India did.

How many Nagasaki Nuclear Bombs equal the Radiation loosed in the 2003 Iraq war? Answer: About 250,000 Nuclear Bombs.

How many Nagasaki Nuclear Bombs equal the Radiation loosed in the last Five American Nuclear Wars? Answer: About 400,000 Nuclear Bombs.
</snip>

[MadHound]

1. Well, I'd like to see the admiral's actual figures

But I think that his figures are probably in the ballpark.

DU is a heavy metal, uranium, that has been depleted of most of it's radioactive properties. While it is still emitting, the amount is quite small, .01-.1 mR, depending upon the source. It is primarily an alpha wave emitter, with a minor emission of beta and even smaller amount of gamma. Alpha emissions, especially in the amounts released by DU are weak, and are easily shielded by ordinary objects, walls, clothing, and most importantly, skin.

The trouble is when DU is turned to dust(in this case by the impact of a DU munition). It can then be inhaled or ingested, where once in the body, it will cause havoc. With no shielding mechanisms in place(like skin), DU emissions attack the surrounding cells. Since it is such a fine dust, it tends to lodge in the most out of the way, tender parts of the body, like the aveola clusters in the lungs, etc. The ongoing emissions(half live ranging from 200,000 years to 2 million) cause a slow motion radiation sickness that can eventually kill the person. It will also cause cancers and various other secondary problems, depending on the part of the body where the DU is lodged.

Another more insideous problem with DU is that like any other heavy metal, it is highly toxic. Again, inhalation and ingestion will cause a slow motion case of heavy metal poisoning.

Yes, DU is indeed the gift that keeps on giving. Given the prevalent winds, millions of people can be effected.

Little known is the radiation poisoning that has taken place in this country due to our atomic tests decades ago. Originally done in Nevada, the radioactive dust has spead eastwards, possibly even as far as the Atlantic seaboard. I live in Missouri, and my high school chem teacher told us how when he would hear of a successful nuke test in the fifties, he would go out the next morning here in Mo and swipe the dust on his car. He would then take the swipe into work, just to watch the Geiger counter go nuts. It has been theorized that such spreading of dust is responsible for the upswing in various cancers, but little real research was done, and now that bomb testing is no longer going on, more than likely no further research will be conducted.

So yes, DU is a huge ticking time bomb that we've unleashed on the world. Whether or not public opinion can stop this ongoing tragedy is something we will have to wait and see about. For now, they just keep on churning the shit out, and firing it off. Apparently it isn't enough that we conquer our enemies anymore, but we have to lay waste to their lands also ala the Old Testament.

[w4rma]

2. I tend to agree with you. Gieger counters would be off the charts if that

were true.

That said, it is my understanding that "depleted" uranium ammunition is indeed radioactive since the material isn't always depleted. And I do think that there are major radiation problems in Iraq, currently.

There are much better studies of this out there without the over-the-top exaggerations.

[anarchy1999]

3. go to google and enter Doug Rokke

from an interview in the spring of 2003:

The War Against Ourselves

An Interview with Major Doug Rokke

Doug Rokke has a PhD in health physics and was originally trained as a forensic scientist. When the Gulf War started, he was assigned to prepare soldiers to respond to nuclear, biological, and chemical warfare, and sent to the Gulf. What he experienced has made him a passionate voice for peace, traveling the country to speak out. The following interview was conducted by the director of the Traprock Peace Center, Sunny Miller, supplemented with questions from YES! editors.

snip to the end:

These consequences last for eternity. The half life of uranium 238 is 4.5 billion years. And we left over 320 tons all over the place in Iraq.

We also bombarded Vieques, Puerto Rico, with DU in preparation for the war in Kosovo. That’s affecting American citizens on American territory. When I tried to activate our team from the Department of Defense responsible for radiological safety and DU cleanup in Vieques, I was told no. When I tried to activate medical care, I was told no.

The US Army made me their expert. I went into the project with the total intent to ensure they could use uranium munitions in war, because I’m a warrior. What I saw as director of the project, doing the research and working with my own medical conditions and everybody else’s, led me to one conclusion: uranium munitions must be banned from the planet, for eternity, and medical care must be provided for everyone, not just the US or the Canadians or the British or the Germans or the French but for the American citizens of Vieques, for the residents of Iraq, of Okinawa, of Scotland, of Indiana, of Maryland, and now Afghanistan and Kosovo.

Q: If your information got out widely, do you think there’s a possibility that the families of those soldiers would beg them to refuse?

ROKKE: If you’re going to be sent into a toxic wasteland, and you know you’re going to wear gas masks and chemical protective suits that leak, and you’re not going to get any medical care after you’re exposed to all of these things, would you go? Suppose they gave a war and nobody came. You’ve got to start peace sometime.

Q: It does sound remarkable for someone who has been in the military for 35 years to be talking about when peace should begin.

ROKKE: When I do these talks, especially in churches, I’m reminded that these religions say, “And a child will lead us to peace.” But if we contaminate the environment, where will the child come from? The children won’t be there. War has become obsolete, because we can’t deal with the consequences on our warriors or the environment, but more important, on the noncombatants. When you reach a point in war when the contamination and the health effects of war can’t be cleaned up because of the weapons you use, and medical care can’t be given to the soldiers who participated in the war on either side or to the civilians affected, then it’s time for peace.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For more information on DU, see the WISE Uranium Project, www.antenna.nl/wise/uranium/; the National Gulf War Resource Center, www.ngwrc.org; or Veterans for Common Sense, www.veteransforcommonsense.org. Sunny Miller’s interview was originally broadcast on WMFO (Boston) in November 2002 and is available for re-broadcast at www.traprockpeace.org.

link to interview:

http://www.yesmagazine.org/25environmentandhealth/rokke.html

[amberdisc]

4. Thanks everybody

Great. Thanks to all, especially anarchy1999 for the links!:)

[amberdisc]

5. I found a source for the numbers

<snip>
INTERNATIONAL PHYSICIANS FOR THE PREVENTION OF NUCLEAR
WAR (IPPNW)
CONFERENCE: DIALOGUES WITH DECISION MAKERS
NEW DELHI, INDIA, FEBRUARY 29, MARCH 1-2, 2004
CONFERENCE HOSTED BY THE INDIAN DOCTORS FOR PEACE AND
DEVELOPMENT (IDPD)


SILENT WMDs EFFECTS OF DEPLETED URANIUM

By

Admiral Vishnu Bhagwat

Former Chief of the Naval Staff, India

FEBRUARY 29, 2004
</snip>
<snip>
More than 500 tons of DU munitions have
been dispensed in Afghanistan. Professor Yagasaki
calculated that 800 tons of DU is the atomicity
equivalent to 83,000 Nagasaki bombs in a paper
presented at the World Uranium Weapons Conference in
Hamburg in October 2003 ( 5 months ago ). The amount
of DU used in Iraq in 2003 is equivalent to nearly
250,000 Nagasaki bombs ( Busby and Leuren Moret have
calculated that 1900 tons of DU is equivalent to 60
TBq of Alfa and Beta particulate activity).
</snip>
Full text:
Link

Thanks again.

[treepig]

6. this is a good example

of why m.d.'s shoudn't be relied on as a source of scientific information.

having said that, i'm still not sure that there's justification for posting dr. mitra's email address on the open forum (or is that type of thing ok? i really don't know)

on edit, more of an explanation.

people have a certain amount of naturally-occurring radioactivity in their bodies, for example K-40 (potassium-40):

http://www.triumf.ca/safety/rpt/rpt_4/node7.html

in total, the world's population has about 84,000 kg of radioactive potassium in their bodies. based on an atom to atom comparison, that is equal to 57,000 nagasaki's!!!

that's 57,000 nagasaki's inside of people right now today - how is it possible that anyone is alive?

it's very puzzling indeed - hopefully the physicians who masquerade as radiation experts (calling dr. mitra . . . ) will be able to provide an answer.