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One thing that scares me about "Yawning Boy" thing....

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skypilot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-04 11:12 AM
Original message
One thing that scares me about "Yawning Boy" thing....
...is that with the CGI technology that exist we have gotten to the point where some people apparently feel comfortable telling us not to trust our own eyes:"It was fake". There were actually some people here at DU who were pointing out certain things about the footage and saying that this showed that it was most likely fake. This is scary considering that the footage was REAL. I'm probably not saying anything new here but I think that this whole mini-controversy throws into stark relief the problem of ascertaining truth--especially visual truth--that the world is in for.
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wug37 Donating Member (139 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-04 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
1. The footage was fake
Letterman even said so himself the next night. The whole incident never really happened.
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bobbieinok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-04 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. ?????????????your proof????????????
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-04 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Wrong.
The footage was real. Letterman said so last night.

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liberal72 Donating Member (405 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-04 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Seriously, he even said last night it was real and that he will have the
kid on tonight I believe.
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carrowsboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-04 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #1
7. You are wrong
April 2, 2004 OP-ED COLUMNIST Smear Without Fear By PAUL KRUGMAN A funny thing happened to David Letterman this week. Actually, it only started out funny. And the unfunny ending fits into a disturbing pattern.

On Monday, Mr. Letterman ran a video clip of a boy yawning and fidgeting during a speech by George Bush. It was harmless stuff; a White House that thinks it's cute to have Mr. Bush make jokes about missing W.M.D. should be able to handle a little ribbing about boring speeches.

CNN ran the Letterman clip on Tuesday, just before a commercial. Then the CNN anchor Daryn Kagan came back to inform viewers that the clip was a fake: "We're being told by the White House that the kid, as funny as he was, was edited into that video." Later in the day, another anchor amended that: the boy was at the rally, but not where he was shown in the video.

On his Tuesday night show, Mr. Letterman was not amused: "That is an out and out 100 percent absolute lie. The kid absolutely was there, and he absolutely was doing everything we pictured via the videotape."

But here's the really interesting part: CNN backed down, but it told Mr. Letterman that Ms. Kagan "misspoke," that the White House was not the source of the false claim. (So who was? And if the claim didn't come from the White House, why did CNN run with it without checking?)

In short, CNN passed along a smear that it attributed to the White House. When the smear backfired, it declared its previous statements inoperative and said the White House wasn't responsible. Sound familiar?

On Tuesday, I mentioned remarks by CNN's Wolf Blitzer; here's a fuller quote, just to remove any ambiguity: "What administration officials have been saying since the weekend, basically, that Richard Clarke from their vantage point was a disgruntled former government official, angry because he didn't get a certain promotion. He's got a hot new book out now that he wants to promote. He wants to make a few bucks, and that his own personal life, they're also suggesting there are some weird aspects in his life."

Stung by my column, Mr. Blitzer sought to justify his words, saying that his statement was actually a question, and also saying that "I was not referring to anything charged by so-called unnamed White House officials as alleged today." Silly me: I "alleged" that Mr. Blitzer said something because he actually said it, and described "so-called unnamed" officials as unnamed because he didn't name them.

Mr. Blitzer now says he was talking about remarks made on his own program by a National Security Council spokesman, Jim Wilkinson. But Mr. Wilkinson's remarks are hard to construe as raising questions about Mr. Clarke's personal life.

Instead, Mr. Wilkinson seems to have questioned Mr. Clarke's sanity, saying: "He sits back and visualizes chanting by bin Laden, and bin Laden has a mystical mind control over U.S. officials. This is sort of `X-Files' stuff." Really?

On Page 246 of "Against All Enemies," Mr. Clarke bemoans the way the invasion of Iraq, in his view, played right into the hands of Al Qaeda: "Bush handed that enemy precisely what it wanted and needed. . . . It was as if Usama bin Laden, hidden in some high mountain redoubt, were engaging in long-range mind control of George Bush." That's not " `X-Files' stuff": it's a literary device, meant to emphasize just how ill conceived our policy is. Mr. Blitzer should be telling Mr. Wilkinson to apologize, not rerunning those comments in his own defense.

Look, I understand why major news organizations must act respectfully toward government officials. But officials shouldn't be sure — as Mr. Wilkinson obviously was — that they can make wild accusations without any fear that they will be challenged on the spot or held accountable later.

And administration officials shouldn't be able to spread stories without making themselves accountable. If an administration official is willing to say something on the record, that's a story, because he pays a price if his claims are false. But if unnamed "administration officials" spread rumors about administration critics, reporters have an obligation to check the facts before giving those rumors national exposure. And there's no excuse for disseminating unchecked rumors because they come from "the White House," then denying the White House connection when the rumors prove false. That's simply giving the administration a license to smear with impunity.

E-mail: krugman@nytimes.com

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mainer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-04 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. CNN has admitted it's real
They said their own technicians looked at it and pronounced it genuine.
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bushisanidiot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-04 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #1
11. President DUMBASS Probably Ordered That Kid's Father To Beat Him
to a pulp. Repuke family values..

We'll see how scared the kid looks tonight on Letterman.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-04 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #1
12. That's absolutely not true. Letterman never said that. NEVER
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skypilot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-04 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. Everyone calm down.
Edited on Fri Apr-02-04 11:39 AM by skypilot
Something tells me tha Wug37 was just trying to complement my point of how we are being told that black is white and real is fake. His statement that, "The whole thing never really happened" should tip you off.
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liberal72 Donating Member (405 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-04 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #1
13. Hey wug37 where is your reply?
n/t
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wug37 Donating Member (139 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-04 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #13
18. Ok. I am wrong
I was watching letterman the next night as I was going to sleep, and must have screwed up what he said. I could have sworn that I heard him say it was fake, but as I was on my way to sleep, I easily could have mis-heard him. Thanks for the correction.
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liberal72 Donating Member (405 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-04 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. Thank you, I was starting to worry.
n/t
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skypilot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-04 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. I guess I was wrong, also.
I didn't think Wug37 was being serious but at least he admits his mistake. Welcome to DU, Wug37.
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-04 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #1
15. Excuse me, but are you out of your mind?
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Oddman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-04 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #1
22. The only thing fake is . . .
CNN's reputation - and the insincere apology.

"Don't say anything stupid or chimpy gets it!"
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ParanoidPat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-04 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #1
23. The footage was most certainly REAL......
.......Letterman NEVER said it was fake and CNN in their apology said that "after carefully reviewing our tapes of the event" they also agreed it was REAL! Do you have a link to where you found out it was fake?

BTW, Welcome to DU. :hi: Stick around and you might learn a few things.
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-04 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
5. Those "certain people at DU"
Edited on Fri Apr-02-04 11:22 AM by tridim
that pointed out that it was a fake really bothered me. I'm not going to make any judgments, but I will point out that several 500 post DU'ers were very quick to dismiss it as a fake and very defensive when myself and others disagreed. This whole thing is just weird. Lots of in's and out's and what-have-you's.
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SheepyMcSheepster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-04 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. i have to admit when i first saw it i thought it was fake
but once i found out that the speech was an hour long, it made more sense.
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mainer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-04 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
6. Here's the really scary thing, I think:
Letterman made a quip about "now the White House is gonna come after me about taxes". He also said, "I might just vanish -- and I'll turn up dead in the trunk of a rental car in seven years."

He may have been joking, but the truth is, do ANY of us doubt the possibility that the White House WOULD go after him about taxes in retaliation?

(That's the same ominous comment Billy Crystal made during the Academy Awards ceremony, when the Oscar winner for "Fog of War" made an anti-Bush speech.)

That's the scary thing -- that NONE of us think it's at all far-fetched that this White House would retaliate so viciously.
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skypilot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-04 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. The fact that we are living under an administration...
...where "jokes" like that would emerge and everyone "gets it" is also scary to me.
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bobbieinok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-04 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #10
16. we know W retaliates and we remember how Nixon retaliated
before Nixon presidents may have done this, but most of the public did not - now we know

RW claims Clinton had PIs investigate everyone who 'had a story to tell'
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-04 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #10
17. criminal culture : criminal whitehouse
perfect fit

Is there any doubt among us here that the Bush family is a criminal enterprise? We may speak of the BFEE with some amusement, but it is not funny. They are criminals and they are in power because they represent an elitist, moneyed criminal class in our society. They profit from war and death and they do so by deception and lies.

Our system of governance has completely collapsed. What we have is a farce masquerading as Democracy and Law. The people and their interests are not represented. The system of checks and balances have been "adjusted" to favor the rich in almost everything and all under the people's noses.
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skypilot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-04 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. And the fact that Letterman joked the way he did...
..and the audience laughed shows that there is a tacit understanding of all this. It needs to be less tacit and more explicit. And less funny.
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mopaul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-04 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #17
24. as long as we allow it, it'll only get worse
the only reason they've gotten this far is because no one is physically stopping them. they will do whatever they can think up, no matter how evil, until we the people stop them.
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-04 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
25. thank God for the Internet
imagine where this story, and many others, would be without it? CNN/Rove could say anything they wanted, and that would be the truth.

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skypilot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-04 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. I've thought for quite some time now....
...that if not for the Internet American would be like pre-glasnot Russia by now (especially now) as far as news coverage goes.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-04 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Hallelujah
How long before they start 'restricting' it to 'keep us safe from terror'?
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-04 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
28. Exactly like 9/11
There were lots of people in the Muslim world who at first thought the destruction of the WTC was faked. Keep in mind that this happened one year after several movies came out with CGI graphics showing NYC buildings (usually the Chrysler building) getting smashed up and knocked down by lizards, meteors, and asteroids.

During the war in Afghanistan the DOD dropped flyers showing a clean shaven bin Laden in a suit and tie in "hiding". These photos were faked and word got out that they were fakes it did a lot to undermine our veracity in the Arab world.

Even today people are willing to believe ridiculous conspiracy BS like Vince Foster's "murder", "faked" Apollo moon landings, and of course LIHOP/MIHOP paranoia because of a general degradation of truthfulness on the part of our government. The Bush crowd is reaping what it's sown for their slavish denial of external realities.

When I think about truthfulness in society, I keep thinking about the quote the John Travolta character made in "Primary Colors". Any old asshole can burn down a barn." It will take a generation of extraordinary measures to return to the level of faith the people once put in their government.

But I doubt such an effort will ever be made.
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