OK..I'm giving in... I will not call a woman a Bitch anymore....

[trumad]

even if she is one... I started a thread the other day stating that it was OK to call a woman a bitch if she deserved the title. The posts were mixed with agreement and disagreement.

I made one post indicating that if the majority of women think it's OK to use the term then it was ...OK.

Well, sometimes the majority is wrong. If a name word like Bitch offends a minority of people then it should not be used.

I've got 3 kids under 10 and each day I try to teach them how to be sensitive in their behavior towards other people. I've got to lead by example and the way to do that is not to be a hypocrite. Not using the word Bitch will not kill me..believe me...

Peace

[redqueen]

1. Wow!

There's hope for civilization!

Seriously, though, kudos to you. I think if used in a comedic way it's fine, but in a hateful way - not so much.

[ret5hd]

2. well, i'll be a son of a bitch...

just kiddin.

[slinkerwink]

3. thank you for saying that! I was giving up hope!

:hug:

[k in IA]

4. Thank you - I think it is always good to go after the content and

substance and stay away from ad hominies attacks. It just makes it easier to dismiss what you are actually saying when you throw a personal attack in it.

[slinkerwink]

5. exactly....

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[slinkerwink]

8. ......

:eyes:

[redqueen]

9. Good example of when I think it's acceptable

Comedy!
:D

[redqueen]

17. LOL!

That got deleted for quoting Dave Chappelle's show?

*shakes head*

[redqueen]

28. C'mon!

Nobody else thinks this is funny?!

The deleted post was a quote from a Dave Chappelle's skit, wherein Dave is portraying Rick James while he was still famous... "I'm Rick James, $&#*@!"

Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

[hiphopnation]

31. LOL!!

There. Haven't seen the skit though. I need to catch up on my Chapelle. I hear it's great. :thumbsup:

[redqueen]

33. It's a good show, funny

But that skit in particular was HILARIOUS!

[outinforce]

36. I Do NOT Criticize The Moderators

and neither should anyone else!

A Post is never removed unless it violates the rules.

So, if a post was removed, it was because it violated DU's rules.

[redqueen]

37. Didn't know I was criticizing the mods, there

Is there no chance whatsoever that the mods may have misinterpreted the quote as an attack?

[outinforce]

45. I'm Sorry

I guess I must have been the one who mis-interpreted your comment as a criticism of the decision of the moderators.

It's probably a very good thing that I am not a moderator.

[redqueen]

65. No worries

No big deal... I just thought it was TOO funny that that got deleted... it's only my FAVORITE sketch from that show! :D

Look for a stream online - it is VERY popular and well worth it! FYI - Rick James himself stars in cameos, commenting on his OUTRAGEOUS behavior... "cocaine is a hell of a drug!"

[rumguy]

38. please tell me your being sarcastic

[outinforce]

43. I Am NOT Being Sarcastic At All.

The moderators have a very difficult job to do, and I think they all deserve our complete support.

Whenever I have asked why a certain post has been deleted, I have been told that posts which violate the rules, and which are seen by the moderators, are the ones that get deleted.

Seems pretty simple to me.

[rumguy]

51. you are being sarcastic, I get it ok

it's very funny

[outinforce]

6. Good For You!

It is always gratifying to see parent who are gneuinely concerned about their children's up-bringing.

I have always thought that a good rule of thumb when referring to other people is "If you would not want someone referring to your own son/daughter/mother/father that way, then it probably is not a good idea to refer to someone else that way either."

[ieoeja]

14. And if you don't care?

And if you don't care how someone refers "to your own son/daughter/mother/father"? It has always amazed me how touchy people can get when talking about their mother. For example, if your mom's hot, she's hot, and if you have some problem dealing with the fact that your mother is a human being ... then you have some problem upon which you need to work.

[outinforce]

20. I Gave A Rule of Thumb

if it works for you, fine.

If it doesn't, then by all means feel free to ignore it.

[JAbuchan08]

22. Okay I got flamed for using the word b*tch a few times

and I plan to continue to use it - when I think its appropriate. I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to follow my own judgement on this one. Frankly if my son/daughter/mother/father is acting like a b*tch I'm going to call them on it - just as I would anyone else. I think the problem is that no-one ever thinks that they or their friends and relations ever deserves to be called names, but instead of simply accepting that some people are *ssh*les and leaving it alone they want to PC everything up. You know frankly I think Marie Antoinette was a bit of a b*tch and I think GWB is a bit of an *ss, but to defer the truth because of taste issues is not my style.

On Edit: Curse words are just words like any others meant to express a feeling or an opinion. I'm sorry there is simply no "clean" equivalent to mny curse word. Simply saying that Ann-Coulter is uninformed and lying is not enough. If one were to document every lie she told, document and criticize her life-style choices and express the opinion that she has no place in the pundit profession it still would not be enough. Hitler was evil and insane, but that is simply to tame a criticism. He was also a huge effin a-hole.

[outinforce]

32. My Thoughts On This

I certainly appreciate your thoughts on this matter. I'm not sure that I would ever flame you (or anyone else, for that matter) for using the word "bitch" (unless you happened to direct it my way). And I do think that as long as anyone obeys the clearly-spelled-out rules for posting here on DU, s/he is free to use whatever words s/he wants to.

Regarding your comments about Hitler and Ann Coulter, my own personal observation is that the word "asshole" or even "huge effin asshole" is much, much too tame to describe Adolph Hitler. I may mutter under my breath when someone cuts me of in traffic "what a f***ing a**hole". But Hitler did far more than cut me off in traffic.

Think for a minute about the words you use to describe people that annoy you. Then think about what Adolph Hitler did. Or about what Ann Coulter does.

Do you really want to use the same words and terms to describe Ann Coulter and Adolpl Hitler that you use to describe people you come across everyday?

That is why I try to force myself not to use words I "throw away" on people who cut me off in traffic, or who are rude in the subway, or who annoy me in any of several different ways every single day.

Instead, I try to describe folks like Ann Coulter and Adolph Hitler in terms that capture what they did or what they do or what they are.

This is just me, of course.

[Donkeyboy75]

39. You too?

That bastard Hitler cut me off in traffic this morning on my way to work. Coulter was in the passenger seat. What a couple of a-holes!

Sorry, I'm in Lounge mode.

Edit: punctuation

[JAbuchan08]

44. I still think these words are neccessary

I realize that curse words and name-calling are generally counter-productive, but I don't think that you can treat people like that with tame and measured criticism. I seriously think some people would benefit if their acquaintences would just say "I'm sorry man, but you're an asshole." 99.9% it probably won't phase them at all, but that .1% of the time they'll look at you and say "I didn't realize that you felt that strongly" an effect that I don't think is as likely with the sort of measured criticism that others advocate. I say - first the measured criticism and then the conclusion, "and frankly I think that you're acting like an *ss." Like I said generally counter-productive but capable of expressing things that your average word can't. I know when I hit my thumb with a hammer, for some reason "Gosh, darnitt" doesn't really provide a great release, but the F-bomb does.

[supernova]

10. Good for you trumad

This woman thanks you heartily.

[demnan]

11. Bitchin'

[DemLikr]

12. BUT, will you still use the term to refer to MEN in any way?

Sorry to see you cave, Trumad. Language as dictated by the most easily offended among us will become a bland tool indeed. :(

...and Ann Coulter is MOST DEFINITIVELY a bitch.

[outinforce]

16. "Caved"?

I confess that I have not been following all of the other threads on this subject completely.

It seems to me, DemLikr, that if your concern is that the language will become bland if there are those among us who choose not to use terms like "bitch" or "asshole" or other terms of derision when discussing some of the issue of the day, that you might put your mind to rest.

I think that the language -- and the discourse -- is enriched when people, through their choice not to engage in school-yard-type name-calling, focus instead on expressing their ideas and making their arguments.

But that's just me.

[hiphopnation]

18. Nope.

Ann Coulter is an ill-informed, loud-mouthed nit-wit with a questionable moral compass. See there? That's the point. You raise the level of discourse and everyone wins.

There's no caving here, just civility. And I ask you, what's wrong with that?

[DemLikr]

23. OK, you call her those things, and I'll call her a bitch and all are happy

See how that works?

You don't get to tell me how to talk and I don't get to tell you the same.

[outinforce]

27. I Don't See or Hear

anyone here telling you how to talk.

I do hope this does not offend you.

[hiphopnation]

29. What is it...

with these people who, when it is suggested that they raise the level of discourse, they scream "censorship!!!" No one's pushing a constitutional amendment to prevent you from using the word.

Just be nice. It's simple, and people will respect you more. But, by all means, call her a b*tch if it tickles your fancy. Whateva. :)

[DemLikr]

58. I never used the word "censorship."

And thank you for the civil reply. :)

[hiphopnation]

59. You're welcome.

I lead by example. :)

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

13. Is it still OK to call Little Georgie a bitch? eom

[slinkerwink]

19. I don't call men "bitch" or women "bitch"

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

24. So, is that a no? eom

[slinkerwink]

56. duh, it's a no

[democracyindanger]

15. Will this end all the bitching?

Probably not. Well, gotta go. Some bitchin' waves out today.

[G_j]

21. great post!!

going the extra mile to get along so we can focus on taking our country & world back is commendable. thanks! :toast:

[hiphopnation]

25. Another Rule of Thumb

Replace the term PC (which, for whatever reason is SOOO repellent to so many people) with "civil".

Then you have...F*ck this "civil" bull. I don't want to "civilize" my language. Why do I have to be "civil". See how ridiculous the argument becomes? Just...grow up!

[redqueen]

26. Oh, that's good!

Come to think of it... who was it that first started all the complaining about having to be 'PC', anyway?

[JAbuchan08]

34. Well "civil" is in the eye of the beholder

My anglo-saxon ancestors would have felt that shit was a perfectly "civi" word to use until the Normans started whipping them for it. I bet you it is only "civilized" cultures which have institutionalized the idea of curse words. The fact is all of these words have functional meanings, and like any other word that meaning cannot be conveyed entirely by any other word. As Mark Twain said "the difference between the right word and the nearly right word is as the difference between lightning and a lightning bug." Sometimes that "right word" is b*tch, or *sshole or some other insult.
First we can't insult one another with offensive words, due to this we can't express the depth of our own offense at the person to whom we are applying these words. After that we can't express opinions that might be thought of as insulting to a particular person, you know like that Bush might have been able to prevent 9-11, or that the Republican party is full of "crooked liars." Finally we wind up at the stage at which any form of criticism is considered "offensive." Oh wait, we're already at that point. I hope everyone who has pushed so hard to prevent people from saying offensive things to one another realizes that if we always cater to one another's ideas of "civility" Americans are going to be communicating to one another exclusively through lawyers.

[hiphopnation]

46. I see what you're saying...

I'm not "pushing real hard" to change people's language. Use the word. Use it all day long.

Myself, I am much more inclined to listen and be patient with a person who uses "civil" language as it's defined by ME. I'll admit that. I have my own idea of what "civil" language is. And when I hear/read "Ann Coulter is a bitch." you'll forgive me if I write that off is a juvenile and pointless statement. And I'm not really concerned with what Ann herslef would have to say about me, as a liberal, because I find her uncivil and immature as well. Her whole body of work doesn't amount to much more than a big pile of worthless poop. But do I spend all my time huffing and pacing and calling her a b*tch? No thanks. I've got better things to do. Like spreading good will and "civility".

Like I said, use all the curse words you like. No one's trying to censure your language. Just don't expect much in return, expcept for more cursing. That'll be good conversation. :thumbsup:

edit: there IS such a thing as valuable poop :evilgrin:

[JAbuchan08]

66. I agree I expect civillity

but civil discourse is a two way street. Some people can be perfect gentleman in terms of their speach while engaging in barbaric actions. Should we give them credit for being gentlemen by treating them with civility? I don't think so. Its a pretty fine line between being outspoken and honest and being crude and cruel. But sometimes that crude speach is a reflection not of one's self but of the feelings that person has to the subject on hand. I know I'm kind of splitting hairs at this point, but...

[Desertrose]

30. with all the words in the english language

not to mention borrowing from other languages .... you would think that a reasonably creative and intelligent person would be able to use some of those other less offensive words to describe people, right? So I am glad you have posted this....

I try to stay away from such words...failing more frequently than I like but trying hard every day....well....OK there are just some days that..well...you know :shrug:

but for our kids...we have to set an example...why not make it as good as you can, right?

Peace
DR

[maggrwaggr]

35. sorry but my ex is still a bitch. She will always be a bitch

she was born a bitch and will die a bitch.

If you don't believe me, well, you'll just have to meet her some day.

[Snivi Yllom]

40. lol

[mouse7]

41. Only way to avoid hurting people with language is to stop using words

Somewhere in America is a person who was abused badly physically as a child with a parent standing over them yelling "THE THE THE THE THE THE." So, we can't say THE.

Did you know Pico is the Chilean equivalent of "prick"? I didn't. So, we can't refer to salsa now, and people in LA are completely screwed, as Pico Boulevard is a major thouroghfare.

So please. Stop using words. You're hurting and offending people using them. Communicate with moans and gurgles.

[redqueen]

42. lol

:D

[maggrwaggr]

47. yeah and sometimes I WANT to hurt people with language!

So if I think someone is a bitch I'm gonna call 'em a bitch.

[trumad]

48. To each thier won.. I mean it

I could care less if others use the word Bitch.... I've just decided to refrain from using it and other words that may hurt people... Think of the words we stopped using over the years... The big one is Nigger... It was perfectly exceptable 50 years ago but today it's a horrible word to use... Retard, Midget, etc...all words that we said as kids but refrain from using today because it offends the folks the words are being directed to. To see Kids today use words like faggit, nigger, Bitch, Mother Fucker, etc ain't to cool. Where do they get these words?

Adults!

[slinkerwink]

54. see? that's why "BITCH" is the equivalent of N*GGER or FAGGOT or DYKE

since those are words of hate.

[democracyindanger]

61. Yeah, right

"Bitch" is the equivalent of a racial slur. And when homosexuals themselves use 'faggot' or 'dyke' they are just showing their self-hatred. :eyes:

We should discourage the use of "ass" in a derogatory manner as well, because the Democratic symbol is, after all, a donkey.

The oft-suggested 'colon bag' is truly insensitive to those that require colostomy bags, and those who must care for those who do.

"Dummy" may seem innocent at first, but consider that it is often used to mock the mentally handicapped, and the mute. So that's got to be on the no-no list.

"Clown" and "Bozo" clearly fly in the face of decorum because there are many fine clowns that are upstanding citizens, and "Bozo" may violate trademark laws.

Boy, the list is sure growing fast. I'm sorry--is there anybody offended that I used 'boy'? My apologies. I should've taken the time to discover a more gender-neutral word. In any case, I hope somebody can come up with a complete list, because while I know where it starts, I can't quite see where it ends.

[redqueen]

71. Do homosexuals

really use 'faggot' and 'dyke' in a hateful way?

[democracyindanger]

75. Apparently, it doesn't matter

The mere use of those words are hateful, according to the parameters set here. Context and purpose are irrelevant, as demonstrated by the deletion of the Chapelle graphic earlier.

[mouse7]

67. *moan**gurrgle**gurgle**moan**gurgle* n/t

[9215]

49. I'll join you on that. I've used the

term often in the past as a derogative term and see the error of my ways.


((But I reserve the right to say SOB))

[camero]

50. I call her an asshole

Face it an asshole is an asshole. Either sex can be one.

[Ysabel]

52. i'm glad you decided this trumad - and thanks...n/t...

[lumpy]

53. Very good of you

you little bustard.

[Insider]

55. woman: thank you, trumad

that part about your children is really touching, and pure truth.

[ScreamingMeemie]

57. trumad, you are among the best of people.

:hi:

[daveropeswing]

60. Ive been trying to explain...

...to my co-workers, this exact same thing. I work for the local newspaper in production and we start people at just above minimum wage. Thus we get alot of applicants who quit school early and cant get a 'decent' job. Ive noticed that the literacy rate is extremely low (for a newspaper) and most of the communication is below junior high school level. I try to tell my co-workers, 'you can get your point across without using derogatory words or phrases'. Name-Calling is childish and best left to the ignorant and uninformed.

Great thread!



mq

[e-mail]

[redqueen]

63. Welcome to DU, daveropeswing!

:yourock:

[daveropeswing]

70. tanx

Thanks for the warm welcome...

Ive been 'lurking' here for years and had only made one post. I finally retrieved my password and all and decided to speak up once again....

Now I probably wont ever shut up!



mq


[e-mail]

[fob]

62. So you will continue to refer to males as bitches then?

That's not fair! -s-

[kaitykaity]

64. Thanks. I think.

I don't think I was upset at the word "bitch," but more at the attitude that you were gonna do it and you didn't give a damn about how anybody else felt about it.

I was mad at "pussy" and "panties Woodruff" and "I Love Candy" Crowley and I took it out on your thread and maybe overreacted a little bit. Sorry about that.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

68. That's really bitchin', Trumad!

[Guaranteed]

69. Yay. nt

[Bucky]

72. appropriate alternatives to the B word

asshole, evil shithead, weasel, feeb, monkeyass, dork, crap-for-brains, dumbfuck.

It's certainly possible to be crass, offensive, crude, and annoying without being a sexist.

[Nikia]

73. Good for you

Way to be respectful.

[Selwynn]

74. It's all about context..

..but I appreciate your post anyway. Very much.

[BabsSong]

76. Then I assume you will refrain from calling "stupid white men"..stupid

I'm a woman. I wont'. and I use bitch on a regular basis because some people really deserve it. It's kind of like being polite and not saying "racist bigot" when someone is one. Call 'em like you see 'em. Am pushing 60 and raised my three kids to make the right calls in the ballgame. When you use the 'polite' terms, they end up not knowing how horrible people can be.