At 308,000 jobs a month, we have a problem

[BabsSong]

I didn't hear the offical announcement but I gather that's the month's rise in job creation? Don't want to hear the "ya..buts". It's all in the perception and the smoke and mirrors. And soon the temporary summer employement will swell the ranks!!! Bush will have created a zillion jobs by the time November rolls around. Oh, I know you have explanations galore---but the public will believe. You know that and I know that. And if your reply is that those "unemployed" places will know differently...well, yes, there are people suffering. But, unfortunately, still not enough in this nation...still not enough. Our job is to convince them they ARE suffering. That may sound like the manipulation the repukes pull. Yes it is and we either do it or lose.

[Doctor_J]

1. Huh?

"unfortunately, still not enough in this nation...still not enough (are suffering). Our job is to convince them they ARE suffering."

Um, plenty of people are suffering - MORE than enough.

Are you trying to drum up support for more tragedy? Did you stray from freeperland?

[kalian]

2. I think you misread his post....

and you're violating forum rules by indirectly accusing the poster
as being a "freeper"...

[BabsSong]

4. There still isn't enough people suffering in this country--they wave their

falg and "adjust". Why do we still have polls razor close in the industrial areas that have been gutted by this administration?? If enough feel scared and hurt, it won't be that way. That's why they voted for Clinton against Papa Bush. We still haven't gotten that far and I think a lot of it is because people like Rush keep them in line. I was at the mall today in a small state who loses job faster than a balding man loses hair. The lot was full to overflowing on a work day. The people were shopping like nuts. I couldn't find half of what I was looking for because they were "sold out". Don't kid yourself. Not enough have been hit to scream. In these unemployment figures how many are families where one is hit but they still have enough to scrape along. Unfortunately, too many have given up and thought it's okay to just scrape along and don't object. They aren't rising up in the streets; they are hunkering down. If they were, we wouldn't be pissing and moaning about every poll by every pollster that doesn't exactly show a 20% Bush and 80% Kerry. If you really feel hurt, you don't keep voting for the asshole who inflicted the hurt.

[Selwynn]

3. I really think this 9/11 stuff is serious enough to sink bush.

I agree that the job news is simply good, no denying. I cant' be upset about that, becuase it means real people who are suffering are getting some work. But it will make it a tighter race perhaps.

But I think that if these scandles Bush keeps getting himself into get any worse, he'll be in huge trouble. But I've always predicted that Bush would win in Novemember. I hope I'm wrong.

[BabsSong]

7. Scandles mean nothing to these people. At the height of Bill's

problems he was still popular. Those who know what all this is about follow the news and are dug into their respective sides. Those who don't follow politics have no clue that this is even taking place. Don't count on scandles unless it is of the magnitude that they have proof the Bush family ordered 9/11---and that ain't gonna happen. Our great hope is that enough people hurt in the key states.

[papau]

15. I expect 2 more 300000 plus months will set the tone to advantage Bush

but I do not expect such months.

The fact that the March numbers were locked down a week ahead of time implies they will also "fix" the April numbers - but I expect May will be under 200,000 and Bush will still be behind by more than a million jobs entering the summer - and with decreased job creation month to month.

If 10 year rates rise in May - the summer may be a disaster as contructions dies out. Bush has bet the farm on the inflation caused by the weak dollar and by the low interest rates hitting the fan post election.

Also folks by August may well of decided they just want a change - as they did with his father.

[Cocoa]

5. the number is garbage

all their numbers are garbage.

[Robin Hood]

6. And yet unemployment went up.

WHat's wrong with this picture? The numbers are all over the place. The only thing that I can come away with is that the system is being manipulated and any positive economic numbers at this point are suspect.

Furthermore, what would the unemployment nubers look like if we were'nt in iraq? If all of those National Giuards people were home doing what job they normally do?

[GR]

8. Accompanying This News Was News Of The Closing Of Gateway...

and electronics retailers in our area. You can't convince people that things are really great when they are out of work or fearing that they soon will be.

In addition, the Household Survey, which the WH was trumpeting last month, said that there was a net LOSS of 3000 jobs this month.

Also, the total number of hours worked WENT DOWN.

I suspect some manipulation of the figures, but only time will tell about that.

[RebelOne]

23. Also there is a rumor that Sun Microsystems

is cutting 3,300 staff.

[theoceansnerves]

9. what the fuck

you're advocating for MORE suffering? what the hell kind of statement is that? if you truly believe bush's shit policies have caused the economy to tank (as i do) then there isn't reason to believe suddenly he's going to pull two million jobs out of nowhere. i for one think there is already plenty of suffering occuring in this country. if people can find summer jobs that's better than nothing. no one is going to vote bush into office because they landed a job at the local cineplex.

[blm]

10. What's with the posts lately telling Dems to MANIPULATE like Repubs?

I have seen more than a few saying we should do something manipulative and unethical for political gains.

I find it creepy.

[Frances]

11. The way to win elections

is not to dwell on misery but to hold out hope for a better tomorrow

That's what Clinton did

Remember--he was the man from Hope

[BabsSong]

13. Frances--yes he was the man from Hope and he said "It's the economy

STUPID. He attacked by using a popular 'put down'. Don't ever forget that. That's what we have to do. I'm not wishing for the nation to be miserable; I'm simply noting that after going through Papa's depression in the midwest that many years ago, this isn't the same. It truly isn't. The people aren't that bad off as we think. They hurt; but they adjust. They don't complain; they adjust. Rush told them to be thankful they are allowed to breathe and they adjust. It takes a whole lot of "pain" to rise up and yell, "Yes, Clinton's right--it's the economy YOU STUPID FUCK". Like I said, hopefully, those people in the industrial midwest who have lost so much will rally. If they are going to, Kerry has to give them the equivalent speech of "it's the economy, stupid". It's in his hands to rally them..or not.

[Frances]

16. You make good points

Clinton was truly the most gifted politician of his era because he could say "It's the economy stupid" AND at the same time sound confident that things can get better under him AND he could say all of this without sounding angry.

I am majorly angry myself but I don't think that attitude will win enough votes to take the White House.

I am thinking that Kerry should choose John Edwards as vice president because Edwards' round smiling face is the perfec balance to Kerry's very serious face.

Plus those independents who think Bush is a likeable guy (how could they?!) will see that Edwards is far more likeable than Bush.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

28. Your post is uninformed and wrong.

The famous phrase "It's the economy, stupid" was not once uttered by Clinton, nor was it ever used in a campaign ad, interview, talking point memo, etc. by anyone on the campaign. It was a sign in campaign headquarters directed at the campaign workers.


When are you going to admit that Bush is a liar, who will lose in November because the American people will not put up with being lied to?

[napi21]

12. It is evident that most of the "new" jobs are lower wage or part time

Part time jobs still add to these numbers, but the people in the streets know they are worse off. Even if they have another job that is full time, most, if not all are making less money and no feeling of security that they'll be still working 6 months or a year from now.

Don't let up the pressure, but don't panic either. Believe me, I know that some people pay attention to #'s, but most pay attention to their own situation and that of relatives and friends. It doesn't matter if the news or an ad tells them things are great, they know better.

They can't hide the REAL WORLD, even with lies and $$$$$$.

[Zynx]

14. There are seasonal adjustments to account for summer jobs.

Therefore, Bush will not have created "a zillion" jobs.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

17. Nobody is turned on about taking a part time low paying job simply

because their unemployment ran out.

[West Coast Democrat]

18. Interest Rates Will Begin To Rise....

and you'll see just how strong the economy is...not very strong at all.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

19. 90% of 308k jobs are part timers ...would you like fries with this RW

talking point?...

[demgrrrll]

20. I think 71,000 of this number included the striking grocery workers

from California returning to work and 90% of the remainder were P/T
from the burger engineering manufacturing sector.

[Heyo]

21. Im sorry my friend...

But there are some major flaws in your post...

"well, yes, there are people suffering. But, unfortunately, still not enough in this nation...still not enough."

not enough people suffering.. 'unfortunately'??

(WTF?) ....well I guess that pretty much speaks for itself.

"Our job is to convince them they ARE suffering. That may sound like the manipulation"

That *is* manipulation... trying to convince people not to be happy...sit them down and say 'look, you may seem happy.. but you ARE MISERABLE"... suuuuuuuure, that'll get you the election....

All the crying and whining about how terrible things are... while things are getting better, trying to talk everybody down... trying to talk the economy down.. hoping for failure for political gain is dispicable.. I'm sorry..

Just my 2 cents.....

Heyo

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

22. It's ALL in the perception babee and the perception is subjective

here in the north Texas area, Lockheed Martin is getting ready to lay off 2500 workers. Southwest Airlines just closed its oldest reservation center in Grand Prairie, laying off 1900 people. Later this year, Southwest will be closing their San Antonio reservation center, laying off another 1000.

I could go on and on listing this stuff. Not PAST layoffs, but layoffs happening right now. So I am afraid all the happy cheery headlines will not mean shit to the people STILL losing their jobs and STILL not able to find a job, like my neighbor (one of the Southwest layoffs after 22 years of working for them).

[Lydia Leftcoast]

24. The suffering is unevenly distributed

It's there all right. But the people who are suffering the most need to be persuaded to vote. Regrettably, many of the Republican-leaning areas (wealthy suburbs) are still doing fine, and those people vote.

[ParanoidPat]

25. Same old 'song' and dance......

......Read this and weep. :evilfrown:

From the Economic Policy Institute, published Friday, November 07, 2003

http://www.epinet.org/newsroom/releases/03/11/031107LPjobslumpPR.pdf

LABOR SLUMP WORST SINCE GREAT DEPRESSION
New EPI Report Finds Jobs Deficit of Nearly 7 Million,
Describes Toll on Wages

The sustained 31-month period of job losses we have experienced sets a record as the longest such period ever recorded in this nation. Even though the economy has gained 286,000 jobs since July, we remain 2.4 million jobs below the jobs level in March 2001, when the recession began. That fact, grim as it is, is only part of what makes this current jobs slump one for the record books.

<Snip>

Among the key facts and findings in the report are these:

Keep in mind that this report is 6 months old and things have worsened since then.

• Since the start of the recession in March 2001, we have fallen behind by about 6.9 million jobs that would have been created if jobs had kept pace with growth in the working age population.

• It would take about 1.8 million new jobs per year just to provide work for the young people entering the labor force, without adding to the current jobs gap.

• The lag time between the end of the recession and the beginning of sustained job growth has been much longer in this recession than before. In every previous recession since 1939, the number of jobs had returned to pre-recession levels by the 31-month mark. In October 2003, however, 31 months after the most recent recession started, jobs were still down by 1.8%.

• The official unemployment figure seriously understates the problem because it leaves out about about 2.1 million people who have been sidelined by the downturn and are therefore not counted as officially “unemployed” because they are not now actively seeking employment. If we counted them, the official unemployment rate would be around 7.3%.

• Factoring in the “missing” labor force described above, that means unemployment has risen 3.1 percentage points since the beginning of the recession, the largest rise at this point on record.

<More>

[Yavin4]

26. Bush Cooked These Numbers

Like he does will any data that he needs to help his cause. Look at what he did to the data gatherers on Iraq and the prescription drug bill. He brow beats them until they produce a number that he likes. There's no logical way this economy could spontaneously create 300,00 new jobs in one month especially outside of mfg. and information tech. My guess is that they double counted the striking CA grocery workers. They counted the jobs that they returned to as new jobs, and the part-time jobs that they left as new jobs. Voila! 140,000 new jobs in one stroke.

The real danger is that cooked numbers lead to bad decisions, look at Iraq. These cooked numbers will force Greenspan to raise rates which could choke off any economic recovery.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

27. I don't believe Bush's lies. I don't understand why you do.

We don't need to convince people that they are suffering. We don't need to convince someone who was laid off from a good paying job and is now working as a greeter at Walmart that Bush's economic policies are a disaster. We don't need to convince a veteran whose benefits have been cut that Bush doesn't care about veterans. And so on, ad nauseum.

[oasis]

29. What's good for America is good for Democrats. Wouldn't you agree?

I, for one, refuse to perpetuate the right-wing myth of the "Gloom-n-Doomocrat".