The Mystery Deepens

[NNN0LHI]

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/03/opinion/03SAT1.html?ex=1081659600&en=6d622d3a78edc49b&ei=5062&partner=GOOGLE

The Bush administration's handling of the bipartisan commission investigating the 9/11 tragedy grows worse — and more oddly self-destructive — with each passing day. Following its earlier attempts to withhold documents from the panel and then to deny its members vital testimony, we now learn that President Bush's staff has been withholding thousands of pages of Clinton administration papers as well.

Bill Clinton authorized the release of nearly 11,000 pages of files on his administration's antiterrorism efforts for use by the commission. But aides to Mr. Clinton said the White House, which now has control of the papers, vetoed the transfer of over three-quarters of them. The White House held the documents for more than six weeks, apparently without notifying the commission, and might have kept them indefinitely if Bruce Lindsey, the general counsel of Mr. Clinton's presidential foundation, had not publicly complained this week. Yesterday the commission said the White House had agreed to allow its lawyers to review the withheld documents, but without guaranteeing any would be released.

This latest distressing episode followed the White House's pattern of resisting the commission in private and then, once the dispute becomes public, reluctantly giving up the minimum amount of ground. Earlier in the week, Mr. Bush finally agreed to allow Condoleezza Rice, the national security adviser, to testify under oath — but only after extracting a commitment that the commission would not seek any further public testimony from any White House official. After months of foot-dragging, Mr. Bush also grudgingly agreed to let the panel question him and Vice President Dick Cheney privately. Last year the Pentagon, the Justice Department and other agencies stonewalled the commission's requests for documents until its chairman, Thomas Kean, the former Republican governor of New Jersey, complained publicly.

Explaining the latest act of obstruction, Scott McClellan, the president's spokesman, said on Thursday that some documents were duplicative, unrelated or "highly sensitive." The White House, he said, had given the commission "all the information they need." Mr. Bush's staff should not be making that judgment. The commission's 10 members can be trusted with sensitive material.

more

[JohnyCanuck]

1. LIHOP LIHOP LIHOP LIHOP LIHOP LIHOP LIHOP LIHOP

The commission's 10 members can be trusted with sensitive material.

Not if the evidence points to LIHOP, they can't.

[RC]

2. Or worse, MIHOP!

[JohnyCanuck]

3. True n/t

n/t

[Ekova]

5. Dramatic pause,

Hey,

Haven't quite mastered the linguistics of the matrix...

LIHOP:

MIHOP:

Thanks in advance.

With regards to the article, if I was a family member of a 9-11 victim I'd be suing for ridiculous sums of money. Many of Sharon's people have stated that Palestinians only know and respond to violence - I'd say that Junior and his crew only know and respond to money. Threaten to take some of it away and maybe they'll snap to attention that we're serious here. This has become so f*cking brutal.

[nostamj]

6. here ya go!

http://dug.seattleactivist.org/

this link takes you to a DU glossary that will explain most everything

in the meantime:

LIHOP - Let It Happen On Purpose
MIHOP - Made It Happen On Purpose

[JohnyCanuck]

7. LIHOP & MIHOP

LIHOP = Let It Happen On Purpose (Bush gang knew terrorists were planning to strike and allowed it to go ahead to take advantage of the situation)

MIHOP = Make It Happen On Purpose (Bush gang and/or renegade US or allied intelligence operatives were actively involved in setting up the 9/11 operation using Arab terrorists as patsies to take the blame)

Note in relation to the above that the neo-con PNAC position was that the US needed a new "Pearl Harbor" type event to galvanize support in the US populace to ditch the traditional US approach to foreign policy and allow the neo-con plans to institute a world wide US hegemony to go ahead.

>>A transformation strategy that solely pursued capabilities for projecting force from the United States, for example, and sacrificed forward basing and presence, would be at odds with larger American policy goals and would trouble American allies.

Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event - like a new Pearl Harbor. Domestic politics and industrial policy will shape the pace and content of transformation as much as the requirements of current missions. << (emphasis mine /jc)

The quote is actually from a PNAC paper entitled "Rebuilding America's Defenses: Strategy, Forces and Resources For a New Century," September 2000. A Report of the Project for the New American Century." It's available from PNAC's own web site www.newamericancentury.org .

See also this DU archived thread for more info on PNAC and their role in the Bush administration if you are not up to speed on that topic.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1069536

[Ekova]

21. Thanks all.

[TomNickell]

9. Self-destructive Conspiracist nonsense.

Some folks are convinced that a small group of men meet each night in a small room to decide ALL of the next day's events.

LIHOP= Hundreds of CIA and FBI employees knew specific details about 9/11 and deliberately didn't stop it. Dozens of military pilots deliberately didn't fly their airplanes fast enough to catch the hijacked planes. And not one of those people has spoken a word about it since.

MIHOP= Hundreds of CIA and FBI employees flawlessly executed an intricate plan to cause airplanes to fly into tall buildings. Specially trained CIA suicide pilots were actually flying the planes. Or maybe it was a remote controls secretly installed the night before. And not one of those people has spoken a word about it since.

Generally, these 'theories' should be considered Karl Rove disinformation campaigns. Their main effect is to make legitimate inquiry more difficult.

[RC]

10. Let me guess...

You also believe that 8000 gallons of jet fuel flowed down the elevator shafts of both WTC towers to the basement and burned hot enough to melt the supports causing their collapse.

[King_Crimson]

11. Anybody that believes that hog-wash...

needs a glass bellybutton to see out because their head is buried deep in their ass! Most of the fuel from the plane that struck the south tower was ignited in the air, thus the reason for the huge fireball that one sees when viewing the photos or motion pics of the collision! AND...why did the south tower collapse first, being that most of the fuel ignited outside the building?
Here's a rather lengthy report on the whole ordeal http://www.serendipity.li/wtc.htm

[Minstrel Boy]

12. Holy bowlerama of strawmen!

Keep knockin' 'em down, tom, if it knocks you out.

[Junkdrawer]

13. Nope - all the evidence seems to point to a few VERY highly..

placed individuals in the CIA and FBI obstructing anti-terror operations. Many, many FBI employees came forward in 2002 to blow the whistle. The excuse given at the time was that higher ups in the FBI both were guilty of "careerism" and didn't have any idea that terror attacks were imminent. However, Richard Clarke and Sibel Edmonds are blowing huge holes in that excuse.

[calimary]

23. CALL YOUR REPS, AND YOUR MEDIA ABOUT THIS!!!

MAKE THEM ACCOUNTABLE, TOO!

IF THEY THINK WE DON'T CARE, THEY WON'T, EITHER!!!


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[NewYorkerfromMass]

15. I agree

the main story is Bush negligence and disinterest/ignorance of terrorism.
The next big story is their cover-up of that negligence.
It's not that complicated.

[JohnyCanuck]

16. LIHOP becomes more and more reasonable every day.

LIHOP is becoming more plausible by the day as more and more evidence evidence comes out that the Bush gang knew a hell of a lot more than they have acknowledged about the dangers of an iminent terrorist strike and yet for the most part ignored the warnings they were recieving. Your point would be that people would have come forward by now to blow the whistle. Well people are coming forward, for example FBI agent Colleen Crowley and FBI translator Sibel Edmonds.

Look at all the people that did know shit was about to hit the fan and yet shit happened anyway. I don't think hundreds of people would have to actively collaborated in this. Just a few in the key postions to stall or shut down investigations or ensure that certain actions were not allowed to go ahead at key points. For example, like the translator Sibil Edmonds' supervisor who actively sabotaged her efforts (and the efforts of others) to translate documents for terrorism investigations and ignored blatant conflicts of interests such that translators were allowed to translate documents related to FBI suspects who had personal relationships with the same translators. From her accounts Ms. Edmonds was going nuts trying to alert her superiors to the problems in the department and yet she was ignored.


A former translator for the FBI with top-secret security clearance says she has provided information to the panel investigating the 11 September attacks which proves senior officials knew of al-Qa'ida's plans to attack the US with aircraft months before the strikes happened.

She said the claim by the National Security Adviser, Condoleezza Rice, that there was no such information was "an outrageous lie".

Sibel Edmonds said she spent more than three hours in a closed session with the commission's investigators providing information that was circulating within the FBI in the spring and summer of 2001 suggesting that an attack using aircraft was just months away and the terrorists were in place. The Bush administration, meanwhile, has sought to silence her and has obtained a gagging order from a court by citing the rarely used "state secrets privilege".

She told The Independent yesterday: "I gave the commission details of specific investigation files, the specific dates, specific target information, specific managers in charge of the investigation. I gave them everything so that they could go back and follow up. This is not hearsay. These are things that are documented. These things can be established very easily

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=458724

Then there was the FBI personnel who put the kibosh on obtaining warrants to search the Mousssoui's computer hard drive which again would likely have led to a full uncovering of the plot. In this case a few people at headquarters quashed the initial request for criminal search warrants and then a "Superviosry Special Agent" removed some info from the FISA Warrant application which helped in the quashing of the second attempt to get a search warrant using the FISA procedure. Another example of how a few people within the structure are able to sabotage the efforts of numerous field operatives desperately trying to raise the alarm

The fact is that key FBIHQ personnel whose job it was to assist and coordinate with field division agents on terrorism investigations and the obtaining and use of FISA searches (and who theoretically were privy to many more sources of intelligence information than field division agents), continued to, almost inexplicably,5 throw up roadblocks and undermine Minneapolis' by-now desperate efforts to obtain a FISA search warrant, long after the French intelligence service provided its information and probable cause became clear. HQ personnel brought up almost ridiculous questions in their apparent efforts to undermine the probable cause.6 In all of their conversations and correspondence, HQ personnel never disclosed to the Minneapolis agents that the Phoenix Division had, only approximately three weeks earlier, warned of Al Qaeda operatives in flight schools seeking flight training for terrorist purposes!

Nor did FBIHQ personnel do much to disseminate the information about Moussaoui to other appropriate intelligence/law enforcement authorities. When, in a desperate 11th hour measure to bypass the FBIHQ roadblock, the Minneapolis Division undertook to directly notify the CIA's Counter Terrorist Center (CTC), FBIHQ personnel actually chastised the Minneapolis agents for making the direct notification without their approval!


http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,249997,00.html

Mr. Grassley said a 26-page electronic communication from the Minneapolis agents contained information that "a reasonable person would have concluded" was sufficient to obtain a FISA warrant.

He said the application should have gone forward to the Justice Department and the FISA court.

Instead, he said, FBI Supervisory Special Agent Michael Maltbie concluded there was not enough information and that Mr. Bowman agreed, although he was aware Mr. Maltbie had "removed certain information before making a presentation of questionable accuracy and length to the national security law unit."

Mr. Grassley said if the application had gone forward and a warrant issued, the agents would have found information in Moussaoui's belongings linking him both to a major financier of the hijacking plot and to an al Qaeda boss who met with at least two other hijackers while under surveillance by intelligence officials.

So here you had the efforts of numerous agents stymied by one guy throwing a wrench into the works.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/news_alert_011303_911.html

Then there is the report of Jeb Bush flying into Sarasota Florida in the early morning hours of Sep 12 (at 2:00am) in a C130 along with federal agents and removing records from Huffman aviation (one of the flight schools that trained some of the alleged hijackers) and flying out again within a few hours. Something smells rotten alright and it isn't in Denmark where the stink is orginating from this time.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1328855

[Junkdrawer]

18. So how about this Tom? n/t

[dpibel]

22. How you do impugn American competence!

If there were a conspiracy involving Americans, it would require "hundreds of CIA and FBI employees," and it would be impossible for them to keep their mouths shut about it.

On the other hand, if wild Muslims were working to pull this off, they could either (1) Do it with exactly nineteen (maybe 20) ultimate actors, plus one guy in a cave in Afghanistan, thus making it impossible for the plan to get out or (2) Do it with the same hundreds of participants as would be required for it to be homegrown, but be able to keep mum about it.

Either way, the wild Muslims are much more competent than the bumbling Americans. Why do you hate America so?

[xchrom]

4. not to mention

characters like lehman look and sound like lihop representatives.
oops, i mentioned it.

[MoonRiver]

8. They don't want Clinton's papers released

because the comparison between that adm.'s serious and dedicated approach to fighting terrorism will contrast too drastically with little emperor's total disregard for same. Then everybody will know exactly whose imcompetence OR WORSE allowed 9/11 to happen. :mad:

[izzie]

14. But this

You have a great many voters that feel it is OK what the President does as we do not need to know what the govt. does.As an American I found that very odd but it is sure out there.

[Junkdrawer]

17. Could it be that these papers would contradict the NEXT round...

of lies sure to come out of Condi's mouth? By classifying them, does this mean that Bush & Co. get to pummel us and then use "national security" to prevent a response?

[Minstrel Boy]

19. Sibel Edmonds: "An idiot could work it out."

"If you put this information I saw with other stuff they had from the Phoenix memo - about suspects taking flying lessons - and stuff coming in from field offices about flight schools, there is no way they can say they did not know. An idiot could work it out."
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=507863

And so much more. For one instance:

A number of FBI agents learned, months in advance, the dates and targets of the attacks, as well as the names and funding sources of the hijackers, but were warned off pursuing the investigation by agency headquarters with threat of persecution. Some of them took the information to David Schippers (former Chief Investigative Counsel for the US House Judiciary Committee), and he went to John Ashcroft's office with the information six weeks before the attacks, but was rebuffed. Schippers went public with this on September 13, 2001, and is now representing some agents in a suit against the federal government. The story was corroborated by William Norman Grigg in The New American. Grigg interviewed three FBI agents, and they confirmed "that the information provided to Schippers was widely known within the Bureau before September 11th." One of them said some FBI senior field agents knew, "almost precisely, what happened on September 11th."

Info cribbed from David Ray Griffin's "The New Pearl Harbor," but there's more detail in Nafeez Ahmed's "The War on Freedom."

[Junkdrawer]

20. Kick

:kick: