Great article on Norway, King of the Social Democracies

[cryofan]

I only wish more Americans could read articles like this, which give a real insight into the Third Way of governance, the Social Democracy.

Here is a DU thread which links to the article (the article has 4 separate pages, BTW):
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=103&topic_id=43244#43258

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Sulldogg]

2. I'm going to assume

by plane.

[cryofan]

6. Unless you get a job or go to school there, you are outta luck

The Norwegians know that you cannot have a welfare state AND significant immigration at the same time.

[JanMichael]

3. It's really amazing how we manage to neglect ourselves while...

...some nations, specifically Norway, manage to strive for something better.

We OTH settle for shit.

I met several Norwegians, while living in Poland a few years ago, and they were some of the best educated, polite, confident and socially responcible people I've ever met.

Oh and pround of their Liberalism/Socialism like none I've ever seen. It was quite odd when I found myself the most economically conservative person at the table...

We have a lot of work to do here.

[Kanary]

4. Since not many people read that forum...

I'll repeat here...

Imagine the savings in this country from reduced crime, alone. Could possibly pay for Universal Health Care just from that savings?

Of course, we won't get into the increased happiness of the people after being released from constant worry about finanaces, and being the target of crime. 'Cuz, "happiness" isn't a commodity we value too much.

Oh, grrrr... What this country could be if people could take their heads out long enough....

Kanary

[cryofan]

5. A lot of the much ballyhooed American GDP comes from....

....the Criminal Justice Industrial Complex and from all the money we spend on our commuting lifestyle.

[cryofan]

10. But the USA has a lot of natural resources, too.

What Norway is doing is looking at their country as a business which is owned by the citizens. And the citizens, just like the owners of any business, get the most benefit from the country. The citizens get the most benefit, NOT the investors, not the CEOs, not the yuppies. And they seem to live just fine. In fact a lot better than us, except that meat seems to be expensive. Maybe an American welfare state modeled after Norway would not be quite as lush, but it would be a better path than the one we are now on.

[Donkeyboy75]

7. One thing Norway has going for it that would be hard to

duplicate here is this: low population, lots of oil. The oil goes a long way to funding their state.

I do like it, though. Unfortunately, this country is too afraid of anything that smacks of anti-capitalism. This anti-Communist stigma will hang around for awhile, I believe.

[GreenPartyVoter]

8. Yeah, I get called a Commie all the time

because I am out to steal the money of good, God-fearing, honest, hard-working people so that atheist crack mothers can stay home and have more babies/abortions. :eyes:

[Kanary]

9. I knew there was something I liked about you, GreenPartyVoter!

You, you..... you COMMIE, you... :) :hi:

At least it not only shows you're a thinking person, but that you have...

.......gasp...

COMPASSION.

Imagine that.

Kanary, sad that these values are in such short supply.......

[GreenPartyVoter]

11. Thanks, Kanary. :) You are so right

that compassion is in short supply these days. :(

[Donkeyboy75]

12. Do you think it can work?

Don't think I'm attacking you. But do you think, taking into account human nature, that communism could actually work in society? I guess I just believe that there would be a sizeable amount of the population that would take advantage of the system, and send it spiraling downwards.

I think communism is an ideal that we all should strive for, but given today's climate I just don't think it could work.

Not trying to start a flame war...just a good discussion.

[Aussie_Hillbilly]

13. Communism

There is a huge difference between Social Democratic Capitalism as practised in northern europe, and Communism.

"But do you think...that communism could actually work in society?"

:) Hell no. Even if greed and selfishness could be "educated" out (absurd IMO) simple things like different opinions on aethestics/education/philosophy/best way to make icecream/automobile manufacture etc. prevent humanity from ever speaking with one voice and choosing one "best" option on everything, or agreeing on "needs".

No Communist country ever achieved anything like what they promised, but due to the quasi-religous nature of Communism there are people who blame everything else and are convinced if it were done their way it work suddenly start working.

OTOH Social Democratic Capitalism has a long history of producing good outcomes for all citizens. And it would appear more stable than it's crazed cousin "Robber Baron" Deregulated Capitalism as practised in Australia, S.E. Asia and the USA.

[Donkeyboy75]

14. OK, I just wasn't clear.

Totally agree with you there. I think one of the biggest obstacles to universal health care, and I kinda think that somehow a multiple party system allows government to avoid being corporate whores...which happens to be the system of government of most of these wonderful Northern European countries.

[Aussie_Hillbilly]

15. Sorry Donkeyboy75

Overreaction on my part. Many people on the internet (not DU) seem to think there are only two possible models of society - USSR and Gilded Age USA.

I agree two-party systems don't produce good policies.

[Jim Warren]

16. Taxes as investment

from the article:
“It’s the system we have chosen,” Sissel, a teacher in Trondheim, told me matter-of-factly, “and I’m happy to pay the taxes for it.”

A reasonable argument can be made that taxes can be considered a good investment for personal and social quality of life considerations.

$35k@yr. to keep a prisoner or $6k@yr. to educate a child?
(better to send them to Harvard than jail. lol)

Robert Reich in an interview the other day on AirAmerica had a good quip: When the RW says "it's your money" tell them It's your country!