In defense of US Navy SEALS. (And other special forces)

[oneighty]

The US Navy SEALS are a proud group of men deservedly so. They are also a tight group that stays in contact with each other over the years, generally through membership in the "Fraternal Order of UDT/SEALS."

One thing they cannot tolerate are 'SEAL Wannabes'. So whenever you hear a bragging loud mouth 'Ex Navy SEAL.'Take it with a grain of salt. The UDTs And SEALS I know are not the murdering type.

Google "The SEAL Wall of Shame" You will see that which I am speaking of.

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[lastknowngood]

1. As long as they operate under government control and within

international law. Remember the "contractors" in Iraq are really just mercenaries some trained under apartheid and Pinochet without control and with a license to kill just for the fun of it and they answer to no one.

[oneighty]

2. Yes.

My point being recent claims about ex US Navy SEALs and blackwater might just be false and damaging to the reputations of real SEALS.

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[bemildred]

3. All respect is due to the professional military in it's honorable

role as defender of the Constitution and the republic.
When they decide to make a buck out of the training provided
them by killing for the American imperium they lose my support
and respect. They are no better than common criminals.

[mike_c]

5. hear hear....

One hundred percent agreement. Mercenaries are scum, no matter where they were trained.

[TankLV]

8. Thank you - you got that right.

But apparently to another poster, no one agrees with us, and we are baaaaad people, despite the fact that 99% of the posts agree with us.

[bemildred]

9. Screw them.

I have nothing but respect for America's professional soldiers.
One can make a good argument that the reason we don't have a
dictatorship now is because it is known that many professional
military take their oath to defend the Constitution seriously.

Anyone that really cares about America needs to support an
honest and well paid professional military of the appropriate size
and competent and honorable civilian leadership to support and
direct it.

There are problems and bad-apples in the military, but the real
problem is the corrupt and venal assholes in the civilian
government.

[The Lone Liberal]

4. OneEighty, for me if you say it is so, then it is so.

I would never doubt your word or sincerity on anything. You will always have my respect for your service and I value your opinion.

[bobthedrummer]

6. My mechanic was a LURP that lost a kidney to a deceased NVA sniper.

I respect all US military that have fought for our country and our Constitution.
I loathe mercenaries though, as well as corporate armies and war profiteers.

The road to peace is guarded by veterans.

[DulceDecorum]

7. Bait and switch

Economic stress among the National Guard and Reserve forces is "a major problem all across the United States," says Representative Chris Bell, Democrat of Texas. It's causing serious "hardship to families. In many instances, they have to take severe financial pay cuts."

Together with Representative Tom Lantos, Democrat from California, Bell sponsored an amendment to HR 1836, the Civil Service and National Security Personnel Improvement Act. The provision would have required government employers of federal, state, and municipal workers to make up the difference between their employees' home pay and their deployment earnings.

The amendment, which Bell says would have cost the government $160 million, was approved in committee only to be removed from the bill prior to the vote. Bell says he thinks the cost is "what killed the bill."
http://www.progressive.org/april04/cusac0404.html


So where is the money to pay the mercenaries coming from then?
They are getting anywhere from $100 to $1,000+ a day.
Look at the employment situation at home.
What is a soldier to do?

And mind you,
this comes from someone who is
adamantly OPPOSED to the entire existence of ANY mercenary ANYWHERE.

My mother used to say that every country had a choice,
to either widen the job opportunities or widen the jails
because people were going to eat.
It looks like the powers that be are betting both ends against the middle.
http://www.prisonplanet.com/archives_fema.html

[thebaghwan]

10. It is amazing how many people are fake Navy Seals. I will tell you a

troubling story. My brother in law was a Navy UDT which were the precursors of the SEALS. He is a great person. Once he mentioned that he wondered if he was eligible to wear the Navy SEAL Trident which is the insignia of the SEALS. The Trident came about after he left the service. So one day I saw this article on Yahoo about people who claim to be SEALS and aren't and about a group who combats these false claims. I figured maybe they could answer the question about the Trident. Well they informed me they would not answer any questions until they had verified my brother in law's service. So I gave them what I knew and within 24 hours I got a email message from them saying "Congratulations! my brother in law was verified as having passed BUDS. They went on to say that this ewas the first and only verified UDT/SEAL in over 50 requests that had been checked.

Think about that! There are a lot of fakes out there. These people then gave me the number to contact something like the Navy Special Warfare Cewnter in Coronado, CA where they again verified him and acknowledged that they were very familar with the group I had spoken with. They also advised that my brother in law was eligible to wear the Trident.

[lostnfound]

11. Our culture has few rites of passage for young men.

Not meaning to criticize the military route, nor to say that people aren't ultimately responsible for what they do...but I can understand the appeal that 'the toughest job you'll ever love' and the incredible challenges which must be faced to become a SEAL must really appeal to young men who yearn to claim an identity that pushes them to their limits.

Personally I glorify nonviolence, but accept that -- in Jungian terms -- there is a 'warrior archetype' which demands it be given its due. Other older cultures recognize this reality and give it some limited reign through ritualistic or symbolic expressions.

On edit: so my point is this: Given that there's a wide range of family upbringing which young men are exposed to..including some very black-and-white good-vs-evil my-country-right-or-wrong morality; and some taught how worthless they are from a very young age..and given that there are few if any alternatives..it's not surprising that they would find an elite military force to be alluring, first within the US armed services, and later in a private firm where they make more money 'doing the same thing'.

[sweetheart]

12. Have you read "rogue warrior"

by Marcincko (sp?). The author is founder of seal team 6, and
i found his books to be very inspiring, expecially that he was
sent to prison for writing them.

I did not find his descriptions to be within the law, particularly,
but this guy is a real-live western trained terrorist and of course
his methods are a bit "special" drawing from that special forces
concept.

That said, i have great respect for the SEALS.... much more than for
the rumsfield/wolowitiz scumbags.

[neverforget]

13. Right winger former Oregon Congressman Wes Cooley had a mouth

larger than his brain.
http://www.mi-vida-loca.com/menofdishonor.htm

Oregon Congressman Wes Cooley, who in 1995 told reporters he was a Special Forces demolition expert during the Korean War. He continued to serve his country as a volunteer intelligence agent after leaving the military. When enterprising reporters checked his records, they learned Cooley had never left the United States during his time in uniform. He lost his bid for re-election.

[TacticalPeek]

14. Richard Armitage is trying for a spot on that wall.

It appears Armitage has not exactly gone out of his way to disabuse reporters of the notion that he is a former Navy SEAL. Nor has the State Department issued even a single media advisory to correct the common misconception. Lately, possibly feeling a slight increase in temperature regarding his faux military persona, Armitage has taken to claiming that he "worked with" the SEALs or "trained" them when questioned in a public forum about his alleged SEAL background.

During one Q&A session on Shadow Day at the State Department, Armitage was quizzed by a tag-along student about his Navy SEAL background. Armitage's response: "No. I was their instructor"

Nothing could be further from the truth, according to one former SEAL of nearly 30 years in Naval Special Warfare. Another, one of the few U.S. personnel left stationed in Saigon in 1973, states in a sworn affidavit that Armitage approached him at that time and identified himself as a SEAL officer.

What remains to be determined is not whether Armitage was or was not a Navy SEAL -- he wasn't -- but where so many in the Press continue to acquire the idea that he was. Reporters such as Bill Gertz do not appear inclined to address that question.

And that seems to sit just fine with the Deputy Secretary of State.


http://sec-global.com/services/ctp/vsg/news/021001.html

http://www.hackworth.com/sw_archive.html