The Grateful Dead and Politics

[jerryskid]

The dead claimed to be apolitical numerous times yet, they played at many benefits concerning different political issues such as green peace and peta. I think i have found some politics in their lyrics. does anyone have any ideas on it.

[thuebert]

1. dead

well they had to have been pretty far to the left considering there fan base was almost all hippies. Look at Phish these days. there following is almost entirely to the left and they inherited alot of the greatful deads fans

[sangh0]

2. They are not liberals

At least, not all of them. Kruetzman and Weir are Libertarians with BK almost Freeper-ish.

[thuebert]

4. libertarianism is wierd

anyone else think that libertarians are so far to the right, that they are almost left????

[central scrutinizer]

6. libertarians?

that helps explain why their live stuff is so out of tune and discordant.

[Emboldened Chimp]

8. Bill's a f-ing Freeper?

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

[sangh0]

10. Not a Freeper

Freeper-ish.

If he took enough time to sober up, he might join, but there's little chance of that happening

[thuebert]

11. nice pic of trey

[Emboldened Chimp]

30. Thanks!

It was taken at IT in August. Man, what a time...

[Old and In the Way]

9. I can believe that about Kruetzman......

LOL, how can a freeper and a Democrat, like Mickey Hart, syncronize their drums so well?

[sangh0]

16. Artistry is not dependent on poltics

Being an artist doesn't make one immune to being an asshole. In fact, I think it might make one more susceptible.

26. two of the greatest writers of the 20th Century, for example

Ezra Pound and Louis-Ferdinand Celine.
T.S. Eliot also.

[Old and In the Way]

3. No doubt they were activists, in the sense of supporting

foundations like Seva and the rainforrests. Not sure about their local politics in SF, but they never got too political as in pro-Democrat or pro-Republican. Maybe because they had fans on both sides of the aisle?

I've noticed a lot of our country's liberal/progressive leadership seem to be fans of the Dead, though.

Patrick Leahy
Howard Dean
John Kerry
Tip/Al Gore
Al Franken

I'd be surprised if any of the Republicans in Congress today are into the Dead...it would be too counter-intuitive to contemplate.

I hear Ann Coulter likes the Dead, so there is no accounting for individual tastes.

[markus]

21. So, the state party chair and I are walking through the parking lot

up here in Fargo, ND after a long day at the state convention (he on stage running the show; me on the floor running the pages).

He says "nice job" and I reciprocate, and ask him how he felt after spending the whole day up there on the stage under those lights.

"I feel like Jerry Garcia and I've just finished a two hour version of Sugar Magnolia."

[Viking12]

5. I'd say humanitarian rather than political

The fundrasiers that I'm aware of are mostly for humanitarian causes through the Rex Foundation -- http://www.rexfoundation.org


As for politics in their music, I'd say social commentary rather than politcal activism, i.e Throwing Stones

[JMK-Rhode Island]

7. Bill Weld is a huge dead fan

Hung out with him in a Luxury Box in the Fleet Ctr. back when he was Gov. of Massachusetts - he's a liberal republican thought

Throwing Stones is basically about Nuclear Winter.

[lectrobyte]

12. Never thought the Dead were especially about politics, as compared to...

say (probably dating myself here), the Clash, or REM, or Neil Young:

There's colors on the street
Red, white and blue
People shufflin' their feet
People sleepin' in their shoes
But there's a warnin' sign on the road ahead
There's a lot of people sayin' we'd be better off dead
Don't feel like Satan, but I am to them
So I try to forget it, any way I can

Keep on rockin' in the free world

[thuebert]

14. neil

yeah young is way to the left. you read about how his tour busses use bio-diesel

[Zinfandel]

17. Well Neil Young admittly voted for right-wing pig Ronald Reagan.

[sangh0]

20. Neil Young had a period when he was in love with Reagan

He would talk about how proud he was to be an American (Note: NY is Canadian)

My advice: Don't count on Neil to be anything. Take him as he is, and don't make any assumptions. They didn't nickname him "Shakey" for nothing.

[PragMantisT]

19. Neil Young also espouses many conservative viewpoints.

He even claims in his autobiography that people are surprised how conservative he really is.

But he seems like a good person and very conscientious.

[Earth_First]

13. Picture a bright blue ball, just spinning, spinnin free,

Dizzy with eternity.
Paint it with a skin of sky,
Brush in some clouds and sea,
Call it home for you and me.
A peaceful place or so it looks from space,
A closer look reveals the human race.
Full of hope, full of grace
Is the human face,
But afraid we may lay our home to waste.
There's a fear down here we can't forget.
Hasn't got a name just yet.
Always awake, always around,
Singing ashes, ashes, all fall down.
Ashes, ashes, all fall down.

Now watch as the ball revolves
And the nighttime falls.
Again the hunt begins,
Again the bloodwind calls.
By and by, the morning sun will rise,
But the darkness never goes
From some men's eyes.
It strolls the sidewalks and it rolls the streets,
Staking turf, dividing up meat.
Nightmare spook, piece of heat,
It's you and me.
You and me.

Click flash blade in ghetto night,
Rudies looking for a fight.
Rat cat alley, roll them bones.
Need that cash to feed that jones.
And the politicians throwin' stones,
Singing ashes, ashes, all fall down.
Ashes, ashes, all fall down.

Commissars and pin-stripe bosses
Roll the dice.
Any way they fall,
Guess who gets to pay the price.
Money green or proletarian gray,
Selling guns 'stead of food today.

So the kids they dance
And shake their bones,
And the politicians throwin' stones,
Singing ashes, ashes, all fall down.
Ashes, ashes, all fall down.

Heartless powers try to tell us
What to think.
If the spirit's sleeping,
Then the flesh is ink
History's page will thus be carved in stone.
And we are here, and we are on our own
On our own.
On our own.
On our own.

If the game is lost,
Then we're all the same.
No one left to place or take the blame.
We can leave this place and empty stone
Or that shinin' ball we used to call our home.

So the kids they dance
And shake their bones,
And the politicians throwin' stones,
Singing ashes, ashes, all fall down.
Ashes, ashes, all fall down.

Shipping powders back and forth
Singing black goes south and white comes north.
In a whole world full of petty wars
Singing I got mine and you got yours.
And the current fashion sets the pace,
Lose your step, fall out of grace.
And the radical, he rant and rage,
Singing someone's got to turn the page.
And the rich man in his summer home,
Singing just leave well enough alone.
But his pants are down, his cover's blown...

And the politicians throwin' stones,
So the kids they dance
And shake their bones,
And it's all too clear we're on our own.
Singing ashes, ashes, all fall down.
Ashes, ashes, all fall down.

Picture a bright blue ball,
Just spinnin', spinnin, free.
Dizzy with the possibilities.
Ashes, ashes, all fall down.

[sangh0]

22. Have you read those words closely?

Very anti-politics, anti-leader. Very cynical.

Very libertarian.

[Emboldened Chimp]

37. I disagree

Very cynical, yes, but not libertarian, especially with the line about selling guns, not food. I think this song comes out of the generalized distrust of gov't in the 60's.

[ET Awful]

47. Agreed Manco . . .

Barlow had lyrics that tended to lean in pretty liberal directions. . . look at a Mydland/Barlow corroboration for example:

We don't own this place, though we act as if we did,
It belongs to the children of our children's kids.
The actual owners haven't even been born yet.

But we never tend the garden and rarely we pay the rent,
Some of it is broken and the rest of it is bent
Put it all on plastic and I wonder where we'll be when the bills hit.

We can run,
But we can't hide from it.
Of all possible worlds,
We only got one:
We gotta to ride on it.
Whatever we've done,
We'll never get far from what we leave behind,
Baby, we can run, run, run, but we can't hide.


I'm dumpin' my trash in your back yard
Makin' certain you don't notice really isn't so hard
You're so busy with your guns and all of your excuses to use them.

Well, it's oil for the rich and babies for the poor,
We got everyone believin' that more is more,
If a reckoning comes, maybe we will know what to do then.

We can run,
But we can't hide from it.
Of all possible worlds,
We only got one:
We gotta to ride on it.
Whatever we've done,
We'll never get far from what we leave behind,
Baby, we can run, run, run, but we can't hide.
Oh no, we can't hide.

All these complications seem to leave no choice,
I heard the tongues of billions speak with just one voice,
Saying, "Just leave all the rest to me,
I need it worse than you, you see."
And then I heard...

The sound of one child crying.

Today I went walking in the amber wind,
There's a hole in the sky where the light pours in
I remembered the days when I wasn't afraid of the sunshine.

But now it beats down on the asphalt land
Like a hammering blow from God's left hand
What little still grows cringes in the shade like a bad vine.

[sangh0]

53. "You can run" is a bit liberal.

I blame Mydland

[sangh0]

51. "Commissars and pin-stripe bosses" sell those guns

Yes, it's the result of a "generalized distrust of gov't" that was common in the 60's (and beyond). A "generalized distrust of gov't", by itself, doesn't make one a Libertarian, but a "generalized distrust of gov't" is entirely consistent with Libertarianism. In fact, it's one of it's most central themes.

A generalized distrust of gov't is NOT a theme of Liberalism.

[Ysabel]

40. perhaps anti-leader...

means everyone is equal...?

interesting your use of the word cynical...

perhaps they are modern day cynics - rejecting the idea of class distinctions...?

i dunno - just a thought...

------

edit - typo...

[Zinfandel]

15. I find it hard to believe the Dead are right-wing...but I wouldn't put

anything past Bob Weir...I would hope Weir would be well aware of republican bullshit...And I really would think Phil Lesh is as liberal as a SF/Berk. boy can be.

[Viking12]

27. Here's a brief interview with Bob

-snip-

"I have been putting together various teams of environmental outfits. Our best success has been in D.C. Now, with the makeup of the governing body, I am apprehensive. They could really give a rat’s ass about environmental concerns. The Clinton administration seemed to have a bias toward environmental concerns, even though we all knew they would not be able to push that type of agenda very far. Now that the Republicans have a majority in Congress, the first thing they are trying to do is unplug all the environmental legislation and get it out of the way, so business can be fat and happy and shit all over us."

-snip-

http://www.newagejournal.com/weir.htm

[Zinfandel]

62. Well good for Weir, those are my sentiments exactly!

[JMK-Rhode Island]

18. If you want to read things into lyrics

not that people would do something like that on here:

Row Jimmy - A cry for alternative energy uses for transportation?
Hell In A Bucket - Iraq over the last couple of weeks?
et...

[underpants]

23. Ann Coulter supposedly went to over 100shows...but never used drugs

My brother is a HUGE Deadhead (we grew up 10 minutes from Hampton) and is further to the right than even Ann the man. He is a Ayn Rand devotee and thinks W is a socialist. He went to over 100 shows too.....with different activities.

[Earth_First]

28. I hate to stereotype...

however there is an overwhelming likelihood that the chances for experimentation with any sort of controlled substance is increased by ten fold attending dead and phish shows. While there is a minority of folks who most likely didn't experiment with mind altering substances, from my personal experiences with both, the folks who have seen 100+ shows have experimented on one or more occasions, I cannot buy into the fact that Ann Coulter, veteran of 100+ shows is a virgin in mind expansion...

[ET Awful]

54. Hell, I'd venture a guess that she's still on a bad trip :)

Or having severe flashbacks.

[JMK-Rhode Island]

29. It's not totally unusual

I've been to close to 100 shows and have never touched drugs in my life

[Earth_First]

32. Not unusual at all...

however I stand by my initial claim that the "Wharf Rats" are within a minority of the overwhelming majority of folks who attend dead/phish shows...

kudos on the abstinence!

[JMK-Rhode Island]

48. Well

I proudly fly my flag whenever I can. Thanks for the Kudos

24. John Barlow, Weir's lyricist

is libertarian of sorts
He was associated with Wired magazine.
check this link
http://www.eff.org/~barlow/

Each individual member had differing viewpoints from what I understand. As a band, they tried to remain basically apoltical as a result.

I'd describe the band as anarchist in a social sense. In a political sense it's hard to say. Some of their "forefathers" were on both sides.
for example
Kesey was quite radical.
Kerouac was quite conservative.

Artists tend to be outside of the political dynamic in some ways, even when they are political. They are more about cultural through the individual change than political change through the masses, often.

[jerryskid]

25. Box of Rain

I always saw box of rain as an extremly intricate view of the world and how fragile it is. I always got that out of it. I think its pretty obvious.

[Pablo420]

31. Most jammers are lefty

The deads following were 99% lib

Phish kids are 99% lib

The one exception would be the Panic.
It seems the southern fan contingent swings rightwinger.

[Earth_First]

33. Don't Panic. Phish is back.

;)

[Pablo420]

36. Yeah but I'm too old now

I'll hit the up-and-commer shows like YMSB and the Drive By Truckers.

Even the old standbyes like Leftover and Govt Mule, aka New Schools Mule ;)

No more Phish unless it's a tiny bar in Burlington named Nectars.

:)

[Emboldened Chimp]

34. Box of Rain is not political

It was written by Phil when his father was dying.

[jerryskid]

38. Okay... your point

That doenst mean there is no politics in the mix. That makes so sense:

Walk out of any doorway
feel your way, feel your way
like the day before
Maybe you'll find direction
around some corner
where it's been waiting to meet you -
What do you want me to do,
to watch for you while you're sleeping?
Well please don't be surprised
when you find me dreaming too

i see that as a wake up call for the government..

[ET Awful]

43. Ummm, there is nothing political in that song. . .

It was a tribute by Phil to his father who was dying at the time. It was nothing more, nothing less.

His father was very ill, he and his father had had their differences.

"Such a long long time to be gone and a short time to be there."

Phil would probably be shocked that anyone would read anything political into that song at all.

[jerryskid]

46. Well... lets think

As you know many things can be read in different ways. If you really think every thing is meant to be read one way and one way only then you obviously dont realize the influece of enviornemt and other factors when it comes to interpreting things. Some one says "Bush sucks donkey balls," i would say "Yes i agree whole heartedly" and some one else would say "He is the greatest president we have ever had." its relative my friend.

[ET Awful]

49. Let's look at it from a different perspective . . .

If you wrote a loving and sorrowful ellegy and tribute to your father, would you appreciate someone attempting to use it as an example of political speech?

[jerryskid]

52. That is plain Ridiculous

An artists doenst put out a piece of art for the fact he wants it to be read a certain way. He would put it out knowing that it would be interepreted differently.

[Earth_First]

56. I absolutely have to agree...

as I noted in a response below, lyrical interpretation from a good singer/songwriter has the ability to pen lyrics that have myriad interpretations, its all in the eye of the beholder, and I would venture to imagine that it may not be the intention of these lyrics, he would agree that the ability to behold these lyrics in different situations is the greatest accomplishment of all...

[ET Awful]

57. I see, so you consider that when someone writes a song to a particular

person for a particular purpose and to express a particular opinion, it is acceptable to misrepresent the meaning of the song from what the artist intended?

Wouldn't that be like a Republican using Born in the USA as a campaign slogan?

[Earth_First]

59. It's not misinterpretation...

its the ability to pen lyrics that transcend all interpretation...

[ET Awful]

60. No, it's a matter of some people thinking that they can read more

into lyrics than the artist intended and attempt to assign meanings that aren't there.

[Earth_First]

61. Right on...

I guess that's where we will just have to end our differences, because in the end it was about the emotion behind the MUSIC anyhow...

[ET Awful]

63. Hehehe . . . now THAT I can agree with :)

If you'd ever talked to Phil about the song (I did, at a blood drive/organ donation promotion type event that he attended back in '97 that I was volunteering at) you'd know more where I'm coming from.

When it comes right down to it, I guess it's what you come away with from it that matters. It's different for everyone.

[sangh0]

58. Now THAT is ridiculous

I somehow doubt that every artist who has ever lived feels the same way you do. I suspect there might have been a diversity of opinion on the issue of interpretation.

[Earth_First]

50. "Phil Lesh wanted a song to sing to his dying father...

"Phil Lesh wanted a song to sing to his dying father and had composed a piece complete with every vocal nuance but the words. If ever a lyric 'wrote itself,' this did--as fast as the pen would pull."

http://arts.ucsc.edu/GDead/AGDL/box.html

hardly a political motivating factor behind the lyrical intent of this composition, HOWEVER, the one of the greatest accomplishments of a singer/songwriter is the ability to pen lyrics that can have myriad interpretations in the eye of the beholder, which the grateful dead accomplished time and time again...

[sangh0]

64. You have a point

Hunter and Garcia have made many statements about their desire to have the lyrics to many songs be interpreted by the individual. And if a lyricist is good, and writes accurately and artistically about an important subject (like life, death, father-son strife, reconciliation, etc) their words can and SHOULD be applicable to a wide range of situations.

However, I dont think BoR was meant to be a political song. Of course, you are free to apply the "moral" of the words in whatever way you think is appropriate. After all, I dont think it's too much of a stretch to see a song about how reconciling one's differences with another on the other's death bed as an analogy for how differences are settled in politics (ex. war, peace, etc...) In fact, it wouldn't be the first time art and literature used a person's life and struggles as a metaphor for war.

[Earth_First]

35. Miss you jer...

[ET Awful]

45. Hard to believe how long it's been eh?

Seems like yesterday.

[ET Awful]

39. Let's see what Jerry had to say about it. . .

"Uh, what we're thinkin' about is a peaceful planet. We're not thinkin' about anything else. We're not thinkin' about any kind of power, we're not thinkin' about any of those kind of struggles. We're not thinkin about revolution or war or any of that. That's not what we want. Nobody wants to get hurt. Nobody wants to hurt anybody. We would all like to be able to live an uncluttered life. A simple life, a good life, you know, and like think about moving the whole human race ahead a step or a few steps. (Interjection by band members: "or half a step or anything. More positive".) At least not going around in circles like it is now." - Jerry Garcia (this was an interview in '68 or '69).

The Dead were always about the music and the moment. Politics really didn't play a role. I can say based on personal experiences at various events that Phil Lesh at the very least was somewhat liberal (very much in favor of universal health care and other social programs, etc.).

The band for the most part wanted what most people want, the ability to live their lives without undue influence from ANYONE (government or otherwise) dictating how they should do it.

One thing they were very big on was not dictating anything to anyone and allowing every one to live their lives in the manner that they chose.

Were they liberal? Not as a whole, but there were certainly liberal members. I definitely wouldn't classify them as conservative though. . . if anything, I'd refuse to give them any label at all, that's the way the Dead I know would want it. . . labels were never their thing at all.

[Wonk]

41. Wow, lots of new DUers posting in this thread. Welcome to DU, deadheads.

:hippie: :hippie: :hippie: :hippie: :hippie: :hippie:

[Pablo420]

55. Thanks man!

I've lurked and posted under a handle that I have since lost the pasword to so it feels like home!

[Viking12]

42. bobby & mickey played at a tribute for Nancy Pelosi

Bobby joined Mickey Hart in Washington, DC on February 6th (2002), to help celebrate a significant bit of American political history. Weir and Hart, along with Steve Miller, performed at a ceremony honoring Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) upon her selection as House Minority Whip — the first time in the 213-year history of the U.S. Congress that a woman has held such a powerful position. Among the songs played at Pelosi’s party: Miller’s hit “Take The Money And Run.” Now, we could speculate on whether that choice was intended as a timely comment on the shenanigans of top executives at an embattled energy-trading company. We could. But it would be wrong.

http://www.dead.net/almanac/vol9_2/pages/page1.html

[Emboldened Chimp]

65. Mickey is definitely a Dem

He stumped for Clinton and Gore.

[Earth_First]

44. John Kerry is an old Deadhead too...

n/t