What's with all the Hypersensitivity at DU here lately?

[Sandpiper]

For the past few days the board has been dominated by threads like:

I don't like _________ word and it ought to be banned.

OR

DU is racist.


What gives people? Has their been an influx of trolls, sowing seeds of discord? Is this just more of the circular firing squad mentality that plagues the left?

Tell me.

[Az]

1. What do you mean by that?

Come see the oppression inherant in the system! /humor off

Stress. Its about stress. As stress rises people tend to strike out a things they would normally merely let slide by.

[trumad]

2. The only thing that plagues the left

are those who say the left is plagued.

[Sandpiper]

6. Thank you for proving my point

n/t

[trumad]

8. No..I'm just sick and tired of hearing that type of shit!

It's a Right Wing talking point!

[LittleApple81]

3. I just click the little x box. What a relief... it is gone. I don't

want to even read all those silly, stressed links.

[Loonman]

4. Beats me

That's why I stopped hanging around here so much.

I got sick of the man bashing. I hate being labeled as a member of a gender that perpetuates violence by nature.

But if you say that.........forget it.

[dbt]

5. It's very planetary

1. Full moon on Monday = general craziness
2. Mercury went retrograde very recently = screwed communications.

I also hear that this year's crop of a**holes is surpassing all projections and we are in the middle of the growing season.

:evilgrin:
dbt

[Paradise]

7. :)well, now, THAT explains it:) n/t

[sangh0]

9. It's the MIDDLE of the a**hole growing season?

Darn it! I haven't even gotten my seeds in the mail yet!!

[Goldmund]

10. It's just a bunch of...

...women, Blacks and Asians trying to put down our great White Power liberal heritage.

[kayell]

20. You forgot uppity gays and lesbians trying to bring down the party...

when there are far, far more important things to worry about than equal rights.

[Goldmund]

31. Sorry,

you're right. Add them to the list.

[Sandpiper]

21. Thank you for proving my point also

n/t

[Terran]

50. Excuse me? Uh, that was a humorous post

in case you missed it, and really proved the OPPOSITE of what you were saying.

[Goldmund]

93. hahaha

Are we turning into HTML interpreters?

Do we need to put <sarcasm> tags around every tongue-in-cheek thing we say? Then we'll also need <serious> tags, or even better: <seriousness level: 54> kind of tags.

[slinkerwink]

99. haha, funny post!

[BOSSHOG]

11. The only thing we have to be hypersensitive about

is hypersensitivity (and such conduct will live in infamy). Oh please don't notice my balding pate or my paunching gut or the second chin I'm noticing in the mirror. I'm so fucking sensitive about your insensitivity. To quote that great statesman britt hume, get the fuck over my faults.

[RedEarth]

12. Wouldn't surprise me in the least if this thread starts growing

dramatically....I would say at least 150 posts

[sangh0]

13. Not offense, but

the issue seems to have pushed one of your buttons

:evilgrin:

[AgadorSparticus]

14. i think there's bigger fish to fry right now too.

but i don't want to dismiss the concerns as trivial either. i think we could all stand to take a moment and be conscious of our language and what it implies. it often goes unchecked and devalued and that is what ticks people off. make a personal memo and move on.

focus should still be on bush. never waver until the election is over. i'm not going to let ANYTHING get in the way of that. we can't afford it. too much is at stake.

[xultar]

15. EASY - PMS - Both MEN and WOMEN!!!

PMS = Pass My Sweatpants

So far this week

Hate Randi
Hate Hate Condi
Hate Bitch
Hate no Black folk on AAR
Hate they bought a Black Station and created AAR instead
Hate unfiltered
Hate unfiltered didn't know that Gore Won
Hate DU cuz of racicism
Hate DU cuz it is sexist
Hate Al Franken too Soft
Hate Al's co-host
Hate AAR cuz they don't have Ed Shultz who is the Liberal Rush
Hate AAR cuz they aren't hardcore
Hate AAR cuz they aren't softcore
Hate Liberals cuz we can't get our shit together
HATE EVERYONE!
Hate Liars!

Please reply with those that I missed

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

19. You missed an important:

I fucking hate EVERYONE.

Period.

Everyone needs to settle down with a nice big can of "Chill the fuck out"! I totally agree with the original post.

[xultar]

22. Thanks ADDED n/t

[fishnfla]

37. Hate liars

and you left that out so tag, youre it!

[xultar]

52. Added - TAG!

[fishnfla]

Hate hatred!

and people who always have to get the last word in ;)

[ant]

16. if you're really interested

In one particular case - I can't speak for these other instances - there is a group of people on this board that feels sexism is tolerated way too much on DU. I didn't agree with them at first, but after talking to some of them I came to understand and agree with their position.

If people prefer to brush it off as hypersensitivity, stress, (PMS? no, too obviuos), that's fine.

None of that, of course, addresses the substance of peoples' complaints. Rather than talk the issues people prefer to pretend there is no issue by calling into question the credibility/sensitivity of those who speak up.

That's my take on it.

I'm not really into debating or discussing this, either. Not like this, not in this thread, where the tone has already been set.

You asked, I answered. Done.

[Sandpiper]

18. Thank you for proving my point also

n/t

[ant]

27. heh

And you proved mine.

Like I said, it's easier to dismiss someone as being hypersensitive than it is to ask, with sincerity and openness, why she feels the way she does. The latter risks admitting certain ugliness, of course, and people tend to instinctively reject that sort of self-reflection.

I'm not pointing fingers, by the way. I am painfully aware of my own racist and sexist attitudes, and I believe we all have those attitudes, whether we know not it or not, whether we're willing to admit it or not. It's ingrained in all of us from birth.

It's difficult to discuss without getting defensive, though, I understand that, and I guess I can't really fault people for it.

[NoPasaran]

17. Candidate wars are over

and McCain for VP is getting tiresome.

[sendero]

24. Yeah...

... where's Dean when you need him ?

[xultar]

23. Can I Suggest CELEXA or LEXAPRO for ALL! AMEN! n/t

[TNOE]

25. Mods should move these threads to the Lounge

I think they're all freaking ridiculous and of course they all started because of the word "bitch-slap".

How'd that poll turn out anyway?

[LittleApple81]

28. Agree. n/t

[quinnox]

26. Whenever I see those threads

I think people must be bored or isn't much going on in the news.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

29. What's with the HYPERINSENSITIVITY?

I see more comments REACTING to people who may be sensitive than I do ANYONE making an effort to understand those that may be.

Hang in there. One of these days, your issue will come up and you won't be pleased when others dismiss it with a thread like this.

[Sandpiper]

32. Thank you for proving my point also

n/t

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Sandpiper]

40. ....

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

43. ...

[Sandpiper]

45. ....

[ant]

47. yes, well...

this is productive.

Why don't you respond to my post instead?

Up for something respectful and honest or is this accomplishing something I don't see?

[Sandpiper]

53. Would it really accomplish anything?

All I can see coming from it is a circular debate.

And the tissues, no, those aren't accomplishing something you don't see. Just a little childish fun. ;-)

[ant]

58. let's avoid that, then

It seems you know how the debate will go.

Rather than go through it, then, why don't you just tell me what the arguments on both sides will be and I'll tell you whether or not I agree. Maybe you already know what I'm going to say, maybe you don't.

Feeling lucky?

[Sandpiper]

67. Look

I'm all for people treating each other with respect, civility, consideration, etc. (childish posts of Kleenex notwithstanding)

I would never intentionally make a comment that was racist, sexist, homophobic etc.

The problem is that everyone on this board has a different view as to what constitutes offensive/insensitive language. So it may be that when I make what I would consider a totally innocuous comment, another person would consider to be the height of insensitivity.

So, does that make me insensitive for offending them, or does that make them hypersensitive for taking offense at something that they alone find offensive?

[ant]

80. no easy answers

I would never intentionally make a comment that was racist, sexist, homophobic etc.

I don't think any of us would intentionally do that, but I do think some of us don't always recognize the subtle ways racism/sexism or any ism can sneak into our posts. People tend to get defensive when it's pointed out to them - doing things like accusing people of being hypersensitive ;) - without taking the time to consider, truly consider, if maybe their posts do contain implicit assumptions about people as groups that maybe they shouldn't.

The problem is that everyone on this board has a different view as to what constitutes offensive/insensitive language.

The problem, as I see it, isn't language. If I were to make a post about Powell eating fried chicken and watermelon it would, I hope, be deleted promptly for racism. Is fried chicken a racist word, though? Is watermelon inherently offensive?

It's not about language, it's about the attitude and meaning, and while I completely agree that those things are defined by context, it also seems that there are many people here all too eager to talk generally about context without addressing the specific contexts pointed out to them.

So it may be that when I make what I would consider a totally innocuous comment, another person would consider to be the height of insensitivity.

That's quite true, and I wouldn't expect innocent misunderstandings to merit banning or anything so silly. I would expect, though, that you try to understand WHY someone considers your remark offensive rather than just say they're being overly sensitive.

Maybe they are, but maybe they aren't. Sometimes people don't seem all that interested in finding out.

So, does that make me insensitive for offending them, or does that make them hypersensitive for taking offense at something that they alone find offensive?

I can't answer that for the general case. Maybe there are instances of this where you are being insensitive and offensive, maybe there are instances where I would think you're not. My point, though, is that you yourself should be equally open to both possibilities.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

49. ...

[Sandpiper]

60. ....

[Misinformed01]

57. Funniest, smart assed post EVER on DU!

And good point, btw-

[TNOE]

33. Yea - My Issues do come up on this board

which is why I'm here -

My ONLY issues as a grown mature educated intelligent woman are:

1. WHAT ARE WE AS DEMOCRATS GOING TO DO TO GET THIS CANCER OF BUSH, ET AL OUT OF THE WHITE HOUSE

2. DEBATING POLITICS.

God - whining is sooooooooooooo unattractive and unappealing to me. I'm SICK of every supposedly being VICITIMIZED. Get over yourself - outside of yourself - and get a REAL LIFE.

[sangh0]

39. Your issues are minor

Stop portraying yourself as a cancer victim. People who are dying are offended by the way you are glomming onto and exploiting their pain. Get over yourself and get a life

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

41. Who the fuck whined about anything? As an alleged grown mature intelligent

(did I miss any flowery adjectives used by you to cloak your ignorant remark as a sophisticated one?)woman, one would expect you to realize that women and minorities typically DEPEND on liberals and the Democratic party to have SOME understanding of the issues that affect their everyday lives and the societal underpinnings that may sidetrack those important issues.

God - whining is sooooooooooooo unattractive and unappealing to me. I'm SICK of every supposedly being VICITIMIZED. Get over yourself - outside of yourself - and get a REAL LIFE.

I believe that remark just cancelled out your flowery adjectives with which you describe yourself.

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ant]

51. as an aside

There's no need to be embarrassed by the behavior of other women. Unless, of course, you feel you're still being judged as a woman rather than as an individual human being.

[TNOE]

68. I personally insist on being judged as an individual

my sex has never been an issue or a problem for me and I fail to see why so many women still insist upon being treated "special" or differently. We're either equal or we're not. If you want to be equal - act like an equal.

[ant]

82. then no worries

If you're being judged as an individual, what do you care what other women are saying or doing?

If we're all being judged as individuals, then the stupid comments of individual people should reflect only on them, not their entire sex.

[TNOE]

86. When A FEW of the women on this board

demanded to be treated differently and more special and demanded censureship - they relinquished their right to be treated as an individual.

[ant]

88. I'm not familiar with these women

In all the time I spent in the bitch threads - I assume that's what you're talking about - I never encountered a woman who was demanding that she be treated differently or more special. In fact, the women I spoke to who were supporting the so-called "ban" made it quite clear to me that they had never "demanded" a ban and thought the whole issue was being presented in a confusing way that didn't quite address the real issues they were trying to talk about.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

56. Cite one comment made by me that whined about men in those threads

I take no responsibility for the comments of others.


Frankly, I think the threads were MORE THAN AN EMBARRASSMENT..much more.

I think they were an exercise in just how hopeless dialogue appears to be anymore due to a society that is DESENSITIZED to it's own reckless behavior.

I think those threads demonstrated a WHOLESALE avoidance by many on both sides to thoughtfulness regardless of their position and I think the threads formed in REACTION to threads started by Skinner to ATTEMPT dialogue in the matter were just as embarrassing since people could HIDE the threads if they couldn't tolerate the conversation...in fact many of the same people REACTING to Skinner's 9 threads were on those threads telling people if a thread were offensive THEY DIDN'T HAVE TO CLICK...then they start a thread ABOUT threads THEY didn't have to click...if that isn't the definition of irony, I don't know what is.

[TNOE]

71. You obviously didn't read

the 9 threads relating to the term "bitch".

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

77. Sure I did. I just don't regard what people say or how they react as

necessarily an embarrassment to me personally in most circumstances.

I also think that there were decent points made by a number of people but the people who participated MOST on those threads..all 9 of them..managed to TALK RIGHT PAST one another and NEVER come to terms...I see a great deal of that in life in general.

It's more an embarrassment to our species than to our message board.

[Ysabel]

63. feelings...

are why we all are here...

unless we just have no feelings at all about all the killing and about the take over of our country and the rest of the world by a gang of butchers...

if people have no feelings - or if (as you say) there is no place for feelings here - why would anybody be here at all...?

[TNOE]

65. Feelings

about the world, our leadership, the war and deaths are genuine feelings we should all be having - BUT feelings about your own personal sensitivies are not appropriate for a political discussion board.

DU has gained notoriety and with 42,000+ members - these threads are an embarrassment. I would LOVE if we could get back to political, world issues.

[Ysabel]

73. person / politics...

actually TNOE - and - in case you don't know (it seems to me that you might not) sexism and racism - etc. are not just personal issues...

these are long-standing major issues - issues which have also caused major problems in the world - as a whole...

edit - present tense...

[TNOE]

83. Perhaps then it would be wiser

to put it into its proper perspective. I AM aware of the issues, I mean we're genociding brown people right now. I have found that most of the posters who are posting on issues such as the "bitch" issue (9 threads in case you missed them) were being disruptive and hypocritical. The point of their posts seemed to me to demand censureship on DU - and that I am vehemently opposed to.

These issues are not being discussed as it relates to the world, only as it relates to a particular set of people's lack of common sense.

[Ripley]

64. This is not the place to discuss sexism?

Well I'll be damned. I thought this was a liberal board and a general discussion forum. Dumb me.

[Misinformed01]

66. "take it to some woman chat room????"

did that really come off of your keyboard???

Holy shit.

You might not need sensitivity training, you might start with charm school.

[TNOE]

70. What

as I woman I should be more sensitive to other women whining? I should be sensitive to the fact that some women are offended by the term "bitch slap". I don't think so. And I'm quite charming enough already.

[Misinformed01]

74. I have been reading your posts on DU for a long time;

as you have mine. This is "Thtwudbeme" or Stephanie, as most people call me.

Pardon me, but, I had no idea you were a woman until about 15 seconds ago.

As far as "charming" is concerned, charm, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. I use the term "Bitch slap" often at home...sometimes in conversations with friends. Knowing WHEN to use slang, or cuss words IS the key here.

I think the "woman chat room" comment was tactless.

Stephanie

[TNOE]

81. Stephanie

Common sense does not seem to prevailing on this board lately - there are posters who wanted to "demand" that this board not allow the word "bitch" or the term "bitch slapping", etc. Whatever. I'm sick of everyone trying to censure everyone else because they don't like or can't take or can't stand what someone else is saying and allowing them to be able to express themselves. I have yet to date seen a post where a man was deliberately trying to insult or degrade any woman on this board in my years here. I have never experienced anyone being "racist" towards any poster on DU either. It all smacks of Bill O'Reilly/Sean Hannity bullshit to me. I think the women on this board went a long way in trying to take us all back 30 years. That is just my opinion of course - but I'm sick to death of everyone demanding what it is that "they" want. You cannot DEMAND respect - you either earn it or you don't, you deserve it or you don't. I'm not the only woman who feels this way by a very long stretch. And those threads have deteriorated the discussion level down to this - yes I think if woman have issues with not being respected in life in general - take it somewhere else - amongst a group of women who can share in your misery or victimization. I will say again, I think for the most part most of them were being hypocritcal and disruptive. So one person's "tactlessness" is another's honesty - and I honestly meant it.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

85. Most posters erred on the side of not banning the word, so the result

refutes your assertion.

Furthermore, the comment that it might take us back 30 years is open to a great deal of interpretation as well.

The humorous thing is that many of the people supposedly advocating for FREE SPEECH were attempting to SHUT UP those they didn't agree with or they started threads mocking people for using THEIR free speech.

Again...irony isn't dead.

BTW..you won't find the most egregious instances of sexism or racism in the archives as they are usually erased.

There have been threads claiming women needed the conservatism fucked out of them accompanied by posts that suggested they be gagged, drugged or hogtied.

There have been threads claiming African Americans were BUILT to be better athletes, and posts claiming slaves LIKED being slaves. Fortunately one WON'T find them in the archives.

[ant]

87. not quite

Common sense does not seem to prevailing on this board lately - there are posters who wanted to "demand" that this board not allow the word "bitch" or the term "bitch slapping", etc.

While you're right about the term bitch slap, no one ever demanded that the word bitch be banned.

That's not what Skinner proposed.

An outright ban was never the issue.

And the people who were supporting what Skinner did propose made it quite clear - if you bothered to listen - that what was really bothering them was a lack of enforcement of the rules already in place.

The current rules already ban racist, sexist, or homophobic comments, so to debate the issue of banning words is pointless. That debate has already been had and DU restricts speech on a regular basis. The issue here is more about when and where.

[TNOE]

90. The WHOLE issue

started due to a post entitled "Dean bitch-slaps Bush"..... it was just a phrase and ANYONE (and there WERE a few) who took offense to that and made a big deal about it degrading women... well let's just say - I don't think common sense prevailed.

I am way too busy for this tiresome loathsome topic - I'm done and in the future will do as I have always done - COMPLETELY ignore threads about religion, abortion and any other thread that I can immediately sense will be about just a bunch of shit that I could care less about.

On Edit: I do care VERY MUCH about the abortion issue and a woman's right to choose - however I avoid flame wars.

[ant]

92. again, not quite

The issue came to a head because of the Dean bitch-slaps Bush thread. From what I understand - again, an understanding that comes from talking to the very women who objected to that thread - people have been trying to address the issue of sexism on the board in general for quite some time and have been constantly mocked, marginalized, and just generally ignored.

And in their defense, I had heard people complain about DU's high tolerance for sexism well before that thread. I think if that underlying issue wasn't there, if these people didn't already feel that DU tends to tolerate a an unacceptable amount of sexism, I don't think relatively mundane things like "bitch slap" would cause such a commotion.

The fact that the anger and hurt have been festering underneath for so long is what created the eruption you saw. The eruption itself is not really the problem, though.

[slinkerwink]

95. precisely a good point.....

[Guaranteed]

75. Well, shit, do you have a point or not? What are you yelling about? nt

[slinkerwink]

94. why should the opinions of the minority be disregarded here?

:shrug:

[The Magistrate]

30. Mostly Boredom

"It's quiet today in the old town of Tombstone."

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[hiphopnation]

54. Well done sir.

:thumbsup:

[fishnfla]

34. The b-word fights opened up alot of sores

The admin. made a big mistake by fomenting flame wars. Now a few posters have got their backs up, and the fur is a -flying

Kinda reminds me of the Dean wars of last summer. Pretty soon there will be a whole new section:

General Discussion: Flame or Smack (abbreviatted, FOS or full of sh*t)

GD: FOS, I like it

[TNOE]

36. Exactly

I knew that was going to be a mistake.

[fishnfla]

46. I shouldn't be so harsh

I have a feeling there was alot of static and pressured applied. Perhaps a lesson was being taught by the powers that be, and some good will come of this.

I mean, its not like bombing a mosque or anything.

[Kanary]

38. Beats the hell out of insensitivity

[Mandate My Ass]

42. Thanks

*

[Triple H]

48. You're right.

I don't like it either.

Here's how it can be fixed: Ignore remarks that you think are racist/sexist! It's as easy as that!

Geez. I mean, who cares that a mosque was bombed and several children were killed? Who cares that Condi lied under oath today? Who cares?? The only thing that's important is whether or not "bitch" should be banned. :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :silly:

[Mandate My Ass]

59. Physician, heal thyself

Looks like you can't ignore what you don't like, but expect others to do what you obviously cannot. :shrug:

[hiphopnation]

55. Hypersensitive?!?!?!?

I'm not being hypersenstive!!?!?! You're the one who's being hypersensitive!!!! And I resent you calling ME hypersensitive. YOU are not the boss of MEE!!!!!

And I call for the word "hypersensitive" and the word "you" and the word "me" to be BANNED FOR ALL TIME FROM THIS SITE!!!!

(LOL!! Old skit from SNL with Martin Short as Corp. Exec smoking furiously..."I'm not being defensive you're the one who's being defensive..." LOL)

:thumbsup:

[WillyT]

61. Tight Pants !!!

Or is it Shoes???

:hi::evilgrin::hi:

[kayell]

62. Have you EVER considered that there may be some genuine,

legitimate reasons for people to complain? Consider that this is our board too, and we would like it to be a better place.

It's like the people who say "America, love it or leave it" And the logical answer of course is that we ARE Americans, and we want America to be a better place, to be the best possible America for all.

There are a lot of people here who have come very close to saying "DU, love it or leave it". The answer is the same - This is our forum too. It is billed as a progressive forum, and so it seems right to try to insure that it lives up to progressive traditions of equality, diversity, and respect.

We ARE DUers, and we want DU to be a better place, to be the best possible DU for all.

[Kanary]

72. I believe we're supposed to leave

that is, until it's time to donate, or go vote.

Then we better "fall in line" and "do the right thing"

Kanary

[slinkerwink]

96. I echo that same opinion....

I also want to feel welcome here and for others to feel welcome in here too. Discussing issues of racism, sexism, and homophobia is a way of airing those concerns out to the majority here.

[alarcojon]

69. My answer to your question

I have been quietly bringing up racism, sexism, and homophobia in a number of threads, but I have been largely ignored, with some notable exceptions. The "b**ch" thread brought out issues many of us feel very strongly about, and finally felt some community in discussing. It also brought out disagreement, which is as it should be.

Is this the most important issue on the progressive agenda? No. But it DOES matter to me. And to many others here.

P.S. nice post, kayell! :thumbsup:

[Desertrose]

76. sometimes talking about things helps...sometimes it only inflames

Never easy to bring up things that are painful...

Sometimes it can be resolved by discussion and sometimes it just gets folks angrier...I think there is obviously a combination of both here....like anything else....depends what you hope to accomplish... whether its for discussion ...venting ...whining ...feeling righteous ...or simply feeling sorry that others feel bad and offering compassion....

I think posters will find what they want to find here...hopefully there will be those who learn something or understand something or just feel better knowing others agree with them and share the same feelings.

Its all a learning process...its up to us what we do with the lessons...
Peace
DR

[LynneSin]

78. It's me you're talking about - YOU THINK I DID IT DON'T YOU???

:eyes:

[Bridget Burke]

79. That time of the month?

Hey, the moon is just past full.

[absyntheNsugar]

84. Sometimes I worry it's that old circular firing squad again...

now that a few clouds are parting...

[Love Bug]

89. Prediction: It'll get worse the closer we get to the election

Words to live by:

"Between the optimist and the pessimist, the difference is droll. The optimist sees the doughnut; the pessimist the hole!" --Oscar Wilde

:donut:

[leesa]

91. I thnk people are just tired and frustrated by the ongoing battle with the

Crime Family. Years and years of this crap makes you cranky.

[Moderator]

97. Locking

per admin request

[LibertyorDeath]

98. Who the fuck you calling hypersensitive huh you talkin to me

well R ya whats your friggin point, i'm as mellow as ever. :)