my question with mihop

[seabeyond]

did i get the initials correct,.

this is the one where they created 9/11........not turn their heads and allow it to happen

why was rumsfield in the pentegon where a plane came in. how is that reconciled

curious mind wants to know

i lean more to lihop, adn the more i hear, the more i am open to mihop, just this is a sticking point for me

i dont think rumsfield would sacrifice himself for the greater plan, not a chance in hell

[James T. Kirk]

1. Soooo...this has nothing to do with pancakes?

:tinfoilhat:

[seabeyond]

2. bah ha ha ha the choc smiley face one

wink. no

[Salviati]

3. The pentagon is a freaking huge building...

I don't remember exactly where he was supposed to be, but I seem to recall that he was nowhere near the wing that was hit. If you were on the opposite side of the building, you'd be quite safe.

Not that I go for the mihop theory, but I think that this needen't be a sticking point, depending on exactly where rummy was...

[Sterling]

4. In fact the plane that hit in DC went through great pains

to hit the sid eof the building under construction and that had just recieved a retro fitting to make it stronger. It was the least populated part of the complex.

[seabeyond]

7. sterling this is true

gosh, now i am saying ok.........i can see this, if you know you have someone that can really fly. ya, another coincidence. all the friggin coincidences, where bush was, all jeb did brother part of wtc, american, and dulles security..........and so so so much more

[PaDUer]

10. Where were the plane parts?

they weren't on the early pix...

[Sterling]

11. While there are no pictures or fottgae of the plane that hit DC

I tend to believe that a it was in fact a plane that hit it. Who was on the plane who flew the plane? I have no idea. I do find it incridibly odd that Babs Olsen was on the plane and is credited as being one of the first to report "Arab hijackers".

I don't claim to know the truth, I just see the lie for what it is. It is important we really do get to the bottom of who was behind 9-11 or we and furure generations are screwed big time.

[Old and In the Way]

23. Some interesting things about 77 (for those that don't know)

* Hans Hanjour, the supposed pilot was such a bad Cessna pilot trainee, his instructor didn't want to fly with him. He managed, on his 1st attempt to come into Washington at cruising speed and execute a 270 degree turn, dropping 7000 feet in the process, and place the plane exactly where the Pentagon had been rebuilt and where the fewest people were located.

* 77 hit 52 minutes after 175 went into the WTC. No AF on the scene, even though they had a base minutes from Washington with a fighter group tasked with defending the city.

* Rumsfield was quite a clarivoyent that morning. He predicted an attack in America soon. Then after the WTC got hit, he said that the attack was probably not over, that we'd see another strike.

* Rumsfield claims he helped with triaging the wounded. Clarke says he was on the teleconference during that time.

* 77's flight path over Kentucky was rather odd....seems like it may have been bidding it's time awaiting 93 to show up. 93 was delayed 20 minutes on the tarmac.

* In 2000, the Pentagon conducted an exercise on a plane flying into the Pentagon.

* On 9/11/01, NORAD was conducting an exercise, Vigilent Guardian, that was simulating a terrorist hijacking/crashing of planes.

[Sterling]

41. Great post!!

I saved it to a word file.

[seabeyond]

5. i thought of that

and still sit with he is depending on them hitting the buiding just right. lol, hm

[MrSlayer]

6. A better question is...

Why did the plane that hit the Pentagon swing all the way around the building (Pulling 5 G's, which, by the way, overrides the safety features and could not have been performed by an amateur) to hit a basically unoccupied area when flying straight into it would have hit an area filled with high level members of the government?

[seabeyond]

8. gosh all

this was a sticking point, thanks for all your answers

[Sterling]

12. And why no footage or photos?

Don't get me wrong. I think it was a "plane". But exactly what plane we cannot say for sure. The have to have video survailence all over that complex.

I cannot believe they do not have some sort of footage that shows exactly what hit the building.

The real story about the DC hit is that it happened at all. their was PLENTY of time to intercept the plane. In fact a plane not even need turn a wheel because DC is dotted by AA sites. The could have shoot the plane down with a SAM or stinger system.

So it's not what hit the building it is how?

[Bombtrack]

9. I don't understand why people have to discuss these paranoid theories here

there are plenty of tin-foil hat/anti-israel/fringe websites where that kind of thing is the norm, that isn't the vanguard activist website of a major party. You just have to face the reality that the fact that the number 1 link for "LIHOP" on google is DU pisses off those of us who would like this site, this potential tool, not to be shunned by the party apparattus.

[ixion]

13. hey, it's a little thing called wanting the truth

given that the 'official' explanation makes absolutely no sense, replete with massive breaks of logic and suspension of physics... I would hope the dems would have some use for the truth.

[Sterling]

14. WOW it really upsets you.

lol. Thats great. The thing is this is not your site. In fact many of us have been here far before you hit the scene. If you would have been here then you might realize that DU is where much of the initial research and organization for the 9-11 truth movement took place.


You may not like it but it ain't going anywhere.

[Old and In the Way]

16. And this was probably the 1st sight that made PNAC a known term.

Now explain to me how a dozen unelected people can decide what the new American vision is? Was that a conspiracy? They made it quite clear that a "Pearl Harbor" event would be needed to get the "Pax Americana" underway. Too bad we didn't know about PNAC before George Bush was elected.

It's precisely because of sites like DU that gathered information and did due diligence that there is even a 9/11 commission.

Perhaps you'd be singing a different tune if it was your son or daughter or mother or father or husband or wife that died on 9/11.

If you don't like discussing LIHOP, I've got a good idea. Don't post on the thread.

[Sterling]

27. Yes and that does indeed make us The "Vangaurd of the Party"

DUers have been proven right day after day even when our Dems were wrong. These days I can see Dem pols and liberal celebs using talking points that were first developed heer at DU.

Unlike the RW which will always work top down we are seeing our work influence our leaders and in many cases make them better informed.

If we turned this place into what some fearful people would like it would be just another forum for people to be told what to think.

[PaDUer]

31. Error--Bush was not elected..

he was selected.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

38. If you don't like the theories, just don't respond!...

Why allow yourself to get worked up about something that could cause you to have a non-structured thought for perhaps the first time in your life?

[leesa]

44. So sad you don't want to find out any answers to the many, many

peculiarities surrounding 9-11. The official story is the most unlikely of all, but you seem to swallow that without difficulty even knowing that Bush and his henchmen have lied over and over again, countless times. I think that makes you more foolish than anyone trying to find the truth. Keep those blinders on tight!!

[ExWife]

15. Remember the plane that hit the White House when Clinton was there?

Why was it not full of explosives and did no damage? Was it a MIHOP WTD action? Who is to say what those in power will do to make things happen?

[Old and In the Way]

17. Al Qaeda does not have a lock on nuts.

Not sure I really understand the point you are trying to make....care to give it another try?

[ExWife]

18. Could the plane crash been set up by the CIA?

To give sympathy to the POTUS for political and security reasons? The plane did not have a chance to harm the Whitehouse but it could allow more strict laws to combat homeland terrorism.

Is that more clear?

[Sterling]

21. Actually the plane had a very good chance of harming the WH.

Have you ever been to the WH? Unlike the Pentagon it is not a huge structure with huge foundation over several football fields of land.

So your line of thinking does not make sense on a technical level at all. It makes even less sense as to what the motive could have been. I fail to see how that incident was used by anyone to further an agenda. It was hardly a blip on the news service after a day or so and to my knowledge was never used as a justification for waging illegal war or tearing up the constitution.


It was a suicide, not a terrorist attack.

[Old and In the Way]

26. Could have, but it wasn't a terrorist act. It was a misguided

poor soul trying to gain a little publicity by landing on the lawn. I don't recall anyone trying to make this a terrorist act. Anyway, hardly anyone was paying attention, it was the Clinton impeachment that everyone was fixiated on.

I don't recall Clinton making anything out of that...do you?

[Sterling]

29. I think that was pre monica.

So the wag the dog talking point which is always weak would not apply.

Based on what I witnessed during the 90s I believe the RW would have automaticly assumed Clinton did 9-11 if it would have happened on his watch regardless of what the actual evidence pointed to.

I don't just mean the Freepers. I mean Newt and the gang on Faux would openly be accusing (not raising questions) Clinton of engineering the event so people would not find out where he put his wiener.

Seriously how can the person we are responding to compair Monica (wag the dog) to controlling the world as a motive for a LIHOP/MIHOP event?

[Old and In the Way]

30. I stand corrected.

Not the first time, most likely not the last. :-)

[PaDUer]

33. monica was a setup..n/t

[Sterling]

36. Oh I think so too. Bill was not down with PNAC, he had to go down.

I also think that Bush sending us into Somalia as a lame duck was a set up for Clinton to be embarrassed. MSNBC reported that OBL was the one who trained the Somali’s and we all know who he works for.


Seriously, when was the last time a repuke president sent our troops on an aid mission?

[Sterling]

20. Glad you brought that up.

First to your question. The 94 attack was the work of a suicidal depressed man. Not an act of terrorism with an agenda. That is most likely why the man who killed himself did not go through the kind of preparation and risk that making a huge flying bomb would entail.


Now to the important part. It was widely reported after that first incident in 94 that even the Whitehouse would have stinger Anti Air systems in place to prevent another such attack. This goes to show that DC has been prepared for such an attack since at least that day but most likely in the case of the Pentagon for decades.


The DC attack could have been stopped, end of story.

[Old and In the Way]

32. Excellent point Sterling!

So where was tha anti-missle defense? Maybe here?

(6:00 a.m.)

President Bush has just spent the night at Colony Beach and Tennis Resort on Longboat Key, Florida. Surface-to-air missiles have been placed on the roof of the resort. <Sarasota Herald-Tribune, 9/10/02> Bush wakes up around 6:00 a.m. and is preparing for his morning jog. A van occupied by men of Middle Eastern descent pull up to the Colony stating they have a “poolside” interview with the president. They are turned away for not having an appointment.


So what was the purpose of the surface-to-air missiles? Did anyone tell Condi?



From www.cooperativeresearch.org Bush 9/11 Timeline

[seabeyond]

19. conspiracy theory

i never was into conspiracy either. yet since coming on this board, all i am learning and coincidences, documented. i told husband a couple weeks ago, talking another that came out, dont remember, he looked at me thinking i was crazy..........i know i know, f*ckin bush has got me going to conspiracy. all his f*ckin lying, we cant believe anything. bush created this me, i didnt do it, not who i was....

so that is my answer. and look at all the info i got from asking. i am remembering when the plane hit there were things with that. have forgotten so much, cause there is just so much

[Sterling]

25. Some "theories" are goofy, true.

Sadly however the world does work through people conspiring together for common agendas. It happens in everyday life with regular people. Why would it not happen at the highest levels of power. We have proof that our own government works that way from knowing about Iran Contra, Watergate, Operation Northwoods.......


The people who claim to know everything about waht is going on (iluninati, Free Mason, Alien Theorists ets...) are no better than the people who claim conspiracies don't exists. We can't know the truth about a lot of these things at this point but it by no means should we not be very worried based on what we already know.

[Old and In the Way]

28. What do: Arms for Hostages, Iran/Contra, BCCI, and PNAC have in

common? Conspiracies hatched by Republicans/bureaucrats that were affiliated with the Bush family.

Coincidence? I think not.

[Sterling]

34. Yes it's not like this is an isolated incident for these people

While a do stand by my statement "we can't really know what happened" I think based on what we know we know where to start looking.

[Minstrel Boy]

35. Always follow the money.

BCCI - and Nugan Hand, Banco Ambrosiano and other financial scandals - are all about the exposure of the money trail of ... well, what to call it? The BFEE? The Octopus? The Secret Team? Oliver North's name for the Iran/Contra operation was "the Enterprise." Whatever, it constitutes a nexus of intelligence agencies, criminals and terrorists, and involves assassinations, the overthrow of governments, the clandestine, protected global trade in weapons and drugs, and more. The money trail is real, and where it leads is real as well.

[Sterling]

37. I say give 1 DUer Ken Starr's power in the penis investigation

W. and chums in orange jumpsuits by fall.

[GreenPartyVoter]

22. Rummy must have known where the safe area would be

[Minstrel Boy]

24. Here's a thread that may interest you,

with some MIHOP'ing speculation on the Pentagon strike:

"Raytheon, and Hani Hanjour's flight of fantasy"

Raytheon is a leading defense contractor, and is responsible for Global Hawk remote control technology beloved of the Pentagon.

There are some funny things about Raytheon.

A USA Today story from October 2001, announced that Raytheon had remote-flown a FedEx 727 to a safe landing on a New Mexico air force base in August 2001, without a pilot.
(http://www.usatoday.com/tech/techreviews/2001/10/2/remote-pilot.htm)

On at least three of the four sparsely occupied hijacked flights, there was a Raytheon employee. Including, on Flight 77, the plane which hit the Pentagon, Stanley Hall, director of program management for Raytheon's Electronics Warfare Division. A colleague called him "our dean of electronic warfare" (http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2001/09/12/victim-capsule-flight77.htm).

Also, in the days following 9/11, at least some of the bin Laden family were flown out on private planes from Raytheon's own airfields.

Now, about Hani Hanjour, the alleged pilot of Flight 77.

He was so unskilled, he'd been denied a Cessna just three weeks before. He'd tried to learn to fly for years, but his instructor found him hopeless.

Yet three weeks later, Hanjour is said to have piloted a commercial airliner at 500 miles per hour so aerobatically a flight controller believed she was following the path of an F-18, perform a 270 degree spiralling descent of 5,000 feet over Washington in a matter of seconds, going out of his way to hit the Navy side of the five-storey high Pentagon: the one side which was virtually empty and undergoing reconstruction, and the only side whose exterior wall had been hardened to withstand attack.

Here's a MIHOP speculation: to ensure the hijackers did the damage, and only the damage the cabal needed, control was taken from them while in flight.

Whatever became of the black boxes of the WTC and Pentagon planes? The electronic readings and the cockpit conversations may have been illuminating.

More here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=976740

[govegan]

40. Boeing had the technology to take off & land by remote in 2001

Speaking with a senior technical manager from Boeing in 2001 at a technology conference, I was told that Boeing had the technology to take off, land and of course pilot commercial aircraft electronically and by remote for sometime. The barrier to commercial implementation was consumer acceptance, as one might imagine, not any limitation of technology. This is not to say that such technology would be on a given commercial aircraft, but it does verify the possibility of such systems being in place selectively, whether or not Boeing had anything to do with it.

Fascists and imperialists have had the technology to murder their fellow countrymen to further the ends of the ruling elite for quite sometime. History tells us that they are not shy about deploying such technology when they feel the urge to manipulate and oppress.

[cuchullain]

39. pantygone

1/2 mile underground

[leftofthedial]

42. rumsfeld was never in any danger

he was in a nuke-hardened area on the opposite side of the Pentagon.

the Pentagon is HUGE.

[leesa]

43. He made sure he was on the far side that was untouched?