Dear Abby,

[PCIntern]

My nearly 90 year old relative just repeats what he hears on CNN and reads in the Wall Street Journal, he minimizes every criticism of the Bushies with the retort that "hindsight is 20/20" . This is a very original argument. He tells everyone who will listen that the middle class didn't exist at all hwatsoever until after WWII, that no one lived in homes except the super wealthy until the GI bill and THAT'S WHY the world is in trouble - that all the TV sets and Computers should be shut down and we should go back to the good old days of ignorance and naivete and living in slums. That nothing bad would ever happen because we wouldn't know about it and we'd be a lot happier. That jobs were always eliminated, like elevator operators and buggy whip makers, and that outsourcing is always going to happen. That CEO's, slthough raping companies, are still great until they get a little greedy and buy expensive shower curtains. If we all just went back to the ghetto, we'd be much better off. He will never admit to voting Republican, although I know he does, and claims that he used to vote for the Communists just to keep everyone honest. I don't believe that for one minute.

AAAAUUUGHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I run and do the dishes. That's how I don't go off my nut.

[lyrical di]

1. Tell him not to vote

An ignorant voter is not what we need determining the direction for our country. Offer him an ice cream cone to stay home and dream his delirious dreams.

[Toucano]

2. Dear PCIntern,

You must have some of the cleanest dishes in the whole world!

[PCIntern]

3. I'm getting to old for this

s--t.

The thing is, this is a microcosm of what is going on in this country. There is a whole crowd out there with these completely irrational arguments and outright lies, and we thinking people are so overwhelmed by the sheer stupidity and ignorance that we literally and figuratively 'run and do the dishes' because HOW THE HELL DO YOU TALK TO THESE PEOPLE?

When I did my psychiatry rotation, we learned that you never attempt rational discussion with a schizophrenic with the expectation that you will get a rational response - so how the hell are you supposed to talk to these people? You can't even get your foot in the ideological door, but they expect you to just agree with them 100% or you're a complete asshole and have been dismissed. But they never ever listne to you. They've been conditioned by guys like Greg Jarred and Hannity and Novak and Buchanan to not listen and not care. There is no dialogue left in this country between opposing parties - and you know what? It's not our fault. It's theirs! That's shy we were losing for so long, we take prisoners, they don't.


AAAAAUUUUGHHHHHH!

[truizm]

5. Anti-Intellectualism in American Life by Richard Hofstadter

[PfcHammer]

11. with a Forward by GW Bush

[Only Me]

13. Read these stupid comments...

Around here this is a fairly typical way of thinking...

I had a first time visit in neighboring small town's web site to see if there was much Republican chatter going on. I live in an extremely Republican area. I sometimes feel like I am the only Dem anywhere around. Anyway, I came across this thread...

They seriously believed all this garbage. What seems the most outrageous part,is they seem to WANT to believe it. Truth doesn't fit in with their picture. They didn't really discuss, debate, prove or reason. It just their way or no way.


The Thread starts...
Got this by e-mail ...........interesting, if true.............VERY interesting.
February 29 2004 at 2:57 PM tsopf (no login)
--------------------------------------------------------------------

At about the time our original 13 states adopted their new constitution, in the year 1787, Alexander Tyler (a Scottish history professor at The University of Edinborough) had this to say about "The Fall of The Athenian Republic" some 2,000 years prior.

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship.
The average age of the world's great civilizations has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through the following sequence: from bondage to spiritual faith, from spiritual faith to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependency, from dependency back to bondage.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Professor Joseph Olson of Hamline University School of Law, St. Paul, Minnesota, points out some interesting facts concerning the most recent Presidential election (2000):

Population of counties won by:
Gore=127 million
Bush=143 million

Square miles of land won by:
Gore=580,000
Bush=2,2427,000

States won by:
Gore=19
Bush=29

Murder rate per 100,000 residents in
counties won by:
Gore=13.2
Bush=2.1

Professor Olson adds:

"In aggregate, the map of the territory Bush won was mostly the land owned by the tax-paying citizens of this great country. Gore's territory encompassed those citizens living
in government-owned tenements and living off government welfare..."

Olson believes the U.S. is now somewhere between the "complacency and apathy" phase of Professor Tyler's definition of democracy;
with some 40 percent of the nation's population
already having reached the "governmental dependency" phase.

SOUNDS true to me...............

[DAGDA56]

4. I agree with one of his points...

...at his age, the Great Depression was the formative time...he is right in that people then generally had their neighbors as a gage of how they themselves were doing. Today, the poorest among us (and even the not so poor) see their "pëers" on television living better lives than they are. Television creates a false reality that is still very real to many. Sure, there was a middle class prior to WWII, and people owned their own homes. He just never saw it in his personal experience. Actually, I do believe he probably voted for Communists as a young man...he was in his 20's prior to the war and for many it was the best way they had to fight the facists.

[PCIntern]

6. I take your point...

but I'm truly sorry to tell you that this stuff was all formulated relatively recently - he only voted for Communists when they and Fidel were the only ones left in the Western hemisphere. Your other point is exactly correct - and points to the narcissism of Americans, my favorite stat being that I believe that 35-40% think that they're in the top 5% economically. Wotta laugh on them...

After all, how many people could possibly make more than 75K a year as a family?

LOL.

[DAGDA56]

7. Wait, while I look around...

...nope, nobody making $75k in this house (of course I live alone, so it wasn't like I had to take roll)...but thanks to easy credit, we can live like we have that kind of income, right? Sorry, but I was picturing this old rabid Marxist with a beret and cardigan sweater giving you young people a really hard time while shouting "power to the people"or something...even kindly grandfather types can be assholes, I guess.

[PCIntern]

8. I know what you mean

I gave the wrong impression, those people are almost gone...however,I came from a family of progressive democrats, pragmatic - especially my father who was a WWII vet for 4 years. They avoided the Commies - my mom used to say that they were as dangerous a bunch as the rich capitalists and that they would turn on you and give you up in a minute and that you'd never work again. Also, they advocated the violent overthrow of the government which was intolerable. that's why she was so upset when the brownshirts showed up in Dade county in 2000 and stopped the recount.

[DAGDA56]

9. If only they had actually worn brown shirts and armbands...

...they might have been easier to identify. My family are all republicans of the Irish variety (I am only here because of some long forgotten dispute with His Royal Highness that caused a sudden movement west)...they too had no time for the Communists, no matter how dashing they may have appeared. What is different today is that we must be anti-Fascist without being pro Communist...breaking out of the old dichotomy.

[PCIntern]

10. I have to say that

this whole DU business has restored my faith in the country. For years now, I thought all the folk had disappeared into sports, PC's, and Britney-types.

Thank God for those who still believe in the real Zmerican ideals - and true freedoms. Not those espoused by the repressive right-wing. And as a Jew, I am horrified by the co-opting of Israel by the Right - strangely, I happen to have known very well one of the famous neo-cons from my college days and am appalled that he is where he is - he was extremely bright, but wow, what a sociopath. Brilliant, though.

But not brilliant enough, Mr. Bond...

[DAGDA56]

12. Thanks, PCIntern...

...this is the best "give and take"I have experienced on DU...good post and good comments. Hope to engage again, some time.
TC