serious question: what makes a young man join the military?

[mopaul]

or a young woman....what are the motivating factors that turns eager young men into soldiers?

i was not in the military, although i had to register for the viet nam war in the late 60's, i was 1-Y. but many of my buds went.

both my sons wanted to join the military when they reached the age, son # 1 during gulf war one, and son 2 recently considered it. i talked them both out of it, but told them they could do whatever they wanted, and that i've always admired and respected the military.
i just didn't want them going to war under a president bush.

freud talked about a 'death drive' in humans, jingoism, like a disease, the march to war, the fifes and drums, the hot blood and urge to smite the enemy, starting out slow, building until thousands or millions walk voluntarily toward death. once it's started, it's
hard to stop.

bush couldn't be taking over the world or killing people without the teeth of the soldiers, who do the actual hard work. bush's policies would be meaningless without the military might he commands.

but the young men and women dying for us in iraq are being lied to. they are pawns in a horrific game, played by billionaires in marble halls. the men in suits and mansions, chuckling and drinking scotch, while young brave men lay bleeding and broken in the heat of iraq. it's a sick system we've come to accept as normal.

what mental drive is it that makes young men sign up, and join in the fight? patriotism? jingoism? is it a normal male human function, instilled in our evolution for a good reason? or is it what's been keeping us on the bestial level all through our history?

what made you decide to enlist? or were you drafted? did you see the overall military experience as good, or bad? what changes would you make? what would you advise young people today, who want to join up and help out the nation?

i'm just curious. what is it that goes on in a young mans head when he joins the army?

[leftyandproud]

1. they have been mislead..

post 9-11..I know several people who joined, and they are still happy with the decision... "What higher calling could there be?" was a common attitude...I must admit, post 9-11, the thought even entered my head a few times...anything to prevent another massacre of Americans...

[Qanisqineq]

2. My husband joined after college

well, he didn't actually finish (too much partying and ran out of money). He joined for the college money, there is a history of service in his family, and he wanted to PROTECT our country (like that war in Afghanistan, not this Iraq hell). And he has stayed in for 9 years, he did get out for about 8 months at one point but re-enlisted.

[BOSSHOG]

3. I joined voluntarily during Viet Nam

I was in the Navy and wanted to go to Vietnam. My father thought I was nuts (not for joining the Navy but for wanting to go to Nam). I did not get stationed in Vietnam. I wanted to see the world, be an adventurer and I got alot of that. The camaraderie and structure of life was appealing with the added benefit of travel. I spent 24 years on active duty and do not regret a day of it. I was very apolitical until I retired. I rogered up, did what I was told, maintained good health, learned discipline, leadership traits, integrity and responsibility. Unlike george bush, I know what Honor, Courage and Commitment mean (Navy core values).

I believe the military offers a good deal for many kids in this country despite the moron in the White House. However, its the luck of the draw for who the cdr-in-chief will be. My advice to youngins today, listen real careful at everything a recruiter tells (promises) you. Don't commit yourself to anything until some adult supervision intervenese. Bounce what a recruiter gives you in writing to what he is telling you.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

8. My Dad thought I was nuts, too,....

...and he talked me out of enlisting and volunteering for the Swift Boats in 1970. I had just finished my first year of college (1969-1970) and I had hated it. Dad had been in the Army Air Corps during WWII as a nose-gunner on a B24 heavy bomber, and he told me that war was not a good place to be...especially up close and personal on the ground or in the waterways (Swift Boats). After several hours of discussion he talked me into staying in school for another year, and the rest is history.

I finished college in 1976, enlisted in the Navy, was picked up for OCS, and spent five pretty good years in the service, spending the last three years as a Naval Gunfire Liaison Officer with the Marines. Then some seriously crazy people in the Pentagon wanted to send a bunch of us to Iran totally unprepared in 1980 with a real lash-up of an operation plan called Gallant Knight. That's when I got out as quickly as possible in 1981.

Scroll down to the section entitled "THE SOVIET THREAT AND THE RAPID DEPLOYMENT FORCE":
<http://www.zmag.org/zmag/articles/ShalomIranIraq.html>

Excerpt:

"Washington typically justified its desire for military ties in the Gulf and the development of forces for use there by warning of the Soviet threat. In January 1980, President Carter proclaimed the "Carter Doctrine," declaring that the U.S. was willing to use military force if necessary to prevent "an outside power" from conquering the Gulf. As Michael Klare has noted, however, the real U.S. concern was revealed five days later when Secretary of Defense Harold Brown released his military posture statement. Brown indicated that the greatest threat was not Soviet expansionism but uncontrolled turbulence in the third world. "In a world of disputes and violence, we cannot afford to go abroad unarmed," he warned. "The particular manner in which our economy has expanded means that we have come to depend to no small degree on imports, exports and the earnings from overseas investments for our material well-being." Specifically, Brown identified the "protection of the oil flow from the Middle East" as "clearly part of our vital interest," in defense of which "we'll take any action that's appropriate, including the use of military force."<37>

Brown did not explicitly state that the United States would intervene militarily in response to internal threats, like revolution, but after he left office he explained what could be said openly and what could not: "One sensitive issue is whether the United States should plan to protect the oil fields against internal or regional threats. Any explicit commitment of this sort is more likely to upset and anger the oil suppliers than to reassure them."<38>

Gulf touchiness on explicit U.S. commitments to "defend" the oil fields had two sources. First, the sheikdoms do not like to be seen as dependent on U.S. force against their own populations. And, second, the Gulf states were made nervous by the frequent talk in the United States about taking over the oil fields in the event of another embargo.<39> There was even a Congressional study of the feasibility of seizing the oil fields; and though the study concluded that such an operation would be unlikely to succeed militarily, the mere fact that this was considered a fit subject for analysis did not instill confidence in Gulf capitals.<40>

Given this sensitivity, Brown advised that the United States should prepare plans and capabilities for intervention -- against coups and other threats -- but should avoid an explicitly declared policy to this effect.<41>

The Carter administration began the formation of a Rapid Deployment Force (RDF) to project U.S. military power into the Gulf region. Originally proposed in 1977, the planning did not make much progress until after the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. The fundamental purpose of the RDF was always, in the words of Carter's National Security Adviser, "helping a friendly government under a subversive attack";<42> nevertheless, to justify the RDF the Soviet threat had to be magnified. Accordingly, Carter spoke in apocalyptic terms about the strategic significance of the invasion of Afghanistan, even though U.S. military experts were aware that a "thrust through Afghanistan would be of marginal advantage to any Soviet movement through Iran or the Gulf."<43>

In 1980, the Army conducted a gaming exercise called "Gallant Knight" which assumed an all-out Soviet invasion of Iran. The Army concluded that they would need 325,000 troops to hold back the Soviet colossus. According to a former military affairs aide to Senator Sam Nunn, the Army deliberately chose this scenario to guarantee that immense forces would be required.<44> And though an RDF of this size might seem unnecessarily large for combating Third World troublemakers, the Pentagon noted that in the mid-1980s Third World armies were no longer "barbarians with knives." The U.S. could no longer expect to "stabilize an area just by showing the flag."<45>"


MY NOTE: This "exercise" was quite a bit more real than the writer indicates...I was a plane load commander for 143 people bound for the Iranian port-city of Bandar Abbas, Iran.

------------------------------------------------------
<http://www.csis.org/mideast/reports/uscentcom3.html>

Excerpt:

"The first Commander of the RDJTF was LtGen Paul X. Kelley, United States Marine Corps (USMC), who later became Commandant of the USMC. Under General Kelley’s direction, the RDJTF stepped out smartly, conducting its first command post exercise, POSITIVE LEAP, at Fort Bragg, North Carolina, from 10 to 15 April 1980. This was followed by BRAVE SHIELD, a rapid deployment readiness exercise conducted at Fort Bragg and Fort Polk, Louisiana, from 13 to 21 August 1980. Another command post exercise, GALLANT KNIGHT 81, was held at Fort Bragg from 23 to 30 October 1980. The RDJTF conducted its first exercise outside of the United States when it held BRIGHT STAR 81 in Egypt from 7 to 27 November 1980. Another first was ACCURATE TEST 81-2. Conducted in Oman from 13 to 23 February 1981, this was the first RDJTF deployment to Southwest Asia. BRIGHT STAR and GALLANT KNIGHT both became regularly occurring exercises, joined by the GALLANT EAGLE series of field training exercises held at various locations in California and Nevada."

If any of this sounds familiar, it should. Gallant Knight was the forerunner in concept to the operation plan used for Desert Storm I.

[matcom]

4. 18, living on my own, a cocain problem, realization i was going nowhere

walked in, signed up. 6 weeks later i was doing pushups in the Kentucky snow

served. got out. went to college. got married. bought a house. make a decent living. my life in a nutshell.

[jimshoes]

5. My best bud in 1971 had a very high draft number

something like 324 and no chance of being drafted but signed up in the Army. He was not a John Wayne type or particularly patriotic but figured it would give him a leg up later on after he got out of the service. He made it home ok and spent most of his time stationed in Germany.

[Vickers]

6. Was kicked out of college, kicked out of my apartment...

...lost my job, parents weren't too pleased...I joined up, spent 8 years in, one of the best things I ever did. Went a couple of nasty places, saw some nasty stuff.

Still the smartest thing I ever did overall. Certainly changed the direction of my life.

[izzie]

7. Having married a 20 year man......

He went in because it gave him a job where he could get an education he could not pay for and a great retirement.He also thought he should go to Korea but after seeing the hospitals filled with men he got over that. I have met many marines that just like the war business and that is why they went in.I had an uncle that was a mess after being in the marines and the islands in WW2. He hated the service but had wanted to go in during WW2. Some men like the order of the life also.Your life has rules and the service has been studies as a true sub-culture. You can pull your self from every day life and live as a service man or family. Every thing can be done on some bases and one never has to leave. A true sub-culture.Having been there I will tell you I do not think many on this site would make it. Free thinkers do not do well in the service.I can understand the Right wings love of the service. Many come from the fundy Christian sects that do their thinking for them so would do well in the service with people thinking for them.They never have to grow up and plan their lifes and all is cared for.This is from a womens point of view and one who tends to be a free thinker. I also knew enough to shut up in the middle of the service life of my husband.It was hard.

[Skittles]

9. I escaped a dreadful home life

how else can one do that with no support and no money? I think my experience was good; I learned skills that enabled me to survive on my own. And I DID serve my country.

[mopaul]

10. they don't pay soldiers enough of course

but to use well meaning young men and women to make billionaires into trillionaires, is sick to the extreme. wars have been fought over salt, and religion, and land, and grudges and revenge, but to fight and die for the mere enrichment of the wealthy ruling class is pointless and obscene.

[Skittles]

17. yes, that is what it is now

and it is up to us, civilians, to stop it.

[solinvictus]

11. Patriotism and a sense of duty

I joined the Army Reserves at age 17 because I sincerely believed it was the right thing to do. I had a sense of adventure and wanted experience, but unfortunately, the Reserves meant sitting in the center once a month performing inventory checks on the same medical equipment we had checked the month before. I wasn't activated for the first Gulf War because I was assigned to a combat engineering batallion; no need for roads or bridges in the open desert. On the whole, it was a bad, boring experience and I should've waited to enlist full time. Oh well....

[cryofan]

12. Young men are hardwired to want to be tested and transformed by hardship

Great question.

Animals, including human beings, are hardwired for certain behaviors that will enhance the survival prospects of the animal and/or the species in general. That is how the DNA keeps getting passed along.

Here are some just-so stories that illustrate just how animals, including humans, are really just DNA-transmission machines.

For example, birds of a certain species have a red spot on their beaks. It just so happens that if you or I tap on that spot, the bird will vomit. Strange, you say? Not really. It just so happens that if you place an exact replica of the head of the adult bird of that species in from of one of the young birds of that species, the young bird will instinctively peck at that red spot. Of course the adult birds that are most likely to vomit when pecked there, and the young birds most likely to peck, are more likely to pass along their genes.

Ever hear a someone run their fingernails down a blackboard? Makes you jumpy, huh? Gives you a real funny feeling down your spine? Yeah, well, is it just a coincidence that the frequency of that sound is exactly the same as the warning cry of a baboon to the rest of the troop when it sees a leopard? And that when a baboon hears that cry, the autonomic nervous system automatically places the baboon's body in a fight-or-flight mode, in high alert, and the muscles along the spine automatically cause the fur along the ridge of the spine to stand on end, making the baboon look bigger to any lurking leopard. Just a coincidence? And the baboons who had the nervous system that responded most quickly to that warning sound, they were the ones that did NOT get eaten, and they were able to better pass along their genes.

And is it just a coincidence that when 90% of adult females and 60% of adult males look into the face of a smiling child, the brains of those adults release a substance known as a betaendorphin, which is similar to an opiate, which makes that adult feel good? If get a slight buzz when you see children, you are more likely to protect children, thus be more likely to pass along your genes.

In the hunter gatherer past that comprised the majority of human time on earth, tHe tribe that had young men who were willing and able to go to war and endure hardships and fight and learn the trade and tricks of the warrior, under the guidance and tutelage of the older warriors, those tribes got the good hunting grounds, good bottom land, etc. THey passed their genes along more prolifically.

Ever watch those commercials for the Army (or is the Marines?) where they show a young man struggling to climb up a huge mountain, then finally reaching the top and being a warrior, and taking the sword?

That is one early stage of young adult male behavior--attainment of social status through battle. The next is attracting a mate. They must prove themselves a worthy mate. Then comes proving themselves to their children as a a worthy father. Then comes proving themselves to the community as a worthy leader.

All these stages have DNA survival benefits, and that is why the human male performs these behaviors. Females have similar and somewhat different behavioral stages.

Almost every widespread human behavior is calculated to pass along the DNA. We are basically just slaves to our DNA. Just machines. Welcome, welcome to the machine.....And what is really funny is all the elaborate schemes we come up for explaining/justifying these behaviors....

[mopaul]

16. your words have great iron keemosabee

the hardwired part, i think about that a lot. i often think of myself as a caveman, barely cro-magnon, living among modern men.
our whole culture is based on the sex drive, the death drive, the survival drive on such a primal level that we don't even realize it.

chimps make wars, and all males of all species fight for dominance as an evolutionary reaction they have no control over. just try to avoid the normal reaction of sexual attraction, or the normal reaction to a sudden loud sound. can't do it.

and bushco's brainmen know all this, and are playing the easily manipulated like cheap fiddles.

[formactv]

13. I almost enlisted when I was 20

so I could get married- I had no viable career at the time. Instead, I broke off the engagement and lost her. Making one's way in the world can be difficult, and the armed forces offer what seems to be a guaranteed career. Two of my brothers did enlist, and found it a disagreeable existence for 6 years. They did find careers in there, though. My older brother explained to me the Uniform Code of Military Justice- that enlistees sign away their rights as U.S. citizens upon joining. A grim concession.

[mopaul]

18. not everyone likes being in the military

i've talked to a lot of people who loved it, and a lot who hated it. seems to be about 50 50. i believe there are folks who are hardwired for it, and some who just can't adjust to it.

but everyone of them agreed that it somehow made them better people.

[findyouranswers]

14. A friend of mine once told me...

That while she was in the Army, she essentially figured out there were two types of soldiers: Those who chose to enlist because they were overachievers, patriots, and often had military in the blood.

And those who found the military to be the savior when they had nowhere else to go.

All in all, although I don't agree with many things our military does, I respect anyone's decision to enlist, though I will kidnap my 20-year-old brother before I let him fight for W.

[newyawker99]

24. Hi findyouranswers!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[jonnyblitz]

15. I enlisted as an employment last resort at the time

not for any noble, patriotic god and country reason. my experience was good because I feel I learn even if the situation sucks. I met awesome people in the military and traveled everywhere and my tolerance level for utter bullshit went way up.

young women join the military, too, don't forget..not just men.

[mopaul]

19. yeah, i mentioned women

and it seems that a large portion of the enlistees are looking for employment and education opportunities. also good retirement and medical benefits, etc. i just think they ought to pay them better, and definitely not use them as cannon fodder for imperialists chess games.

and i can understand developing a tolerance for bullshit, that's a valuable lesson.

[xultar]

20. No $$$$$$$$$$$ No Job, just what BOOSH wanted. n/t

[harper]

21. It's a good economic opportunity for many

I come from a family with many members in the military. All of them were motivated in part by a sense of patriotism. Like it or not we do need a military and should be grateful for the folks who serve. But mostly they joined for the job opportunities.

When you're from a small town with no job opportunities there aren't many options. So some joined right out of high school or after a year or two of college.

Others joined to pay for college. I have a cousin who is a vet...the Air Force paid of most of his education. He did 15 years of active duty and is now in the reserves.

Oddly enough, the members of my family who served in Vietnam are opposed to Bush and this Iraq mess. The ones who never served in a war zone or who were in the Reserves during Vietnam think Bush is great. Go figure.

[Muddleoftheroad]

22. Patriotism, duty, honor, serving one's country

A chance to earn for college, a chance to get your life in order, learn discipline, see the world, learn skills, find a job, etc.

A whole host of reasons.

[FlaGranny]

23. Several reasons:

A few do it because it is macho.
Some do it because they want to serve their country.
Some do it because they like the disciplined lifestyle.
Some do it because of the experience and travel.
Some do it because they can't find a job.
Some do it so they can get the money for college.

Edit: My husband did not join, but was drafted. He says he didn't much appreciate the Army back then and couldn't wait to get out, but now he does appreciate it and he's glad he served.

[HEyHEY]

25. Rocket Launchers?

They're cool