Just had a VERY heated argument with my neighbor(s)...

[Earth_First]

I just came back from having a very heated, near physical argument with my neighbor in my front lawn concerning the flying of my American flag at half staff. Monday afternoon after the the Fallujah offensive began to ravenously intensify in ferocity, I began displaying my American flag at half staff in respect for the casualties that the coalition had sustained, mostly American soldiers. I believe that this is justified in every respect...

So my neighbor come by at noon and rings my doorbell, out of generosity and kind ship, I offer him to come into my home and offer a cup of tea/coffee thinking that this was an informal, congenial visit. He replies with "it's not necessary. I'm not here for small talk." He requests that I join him in my lawn and points to my flag wavering in the spring breeze and DEMANDS an explanation to why I am desecrating the American system of values by displaying my flag in such a manner. I very calmly explained to him the current situation in Iraq, to which I was interrupted several times, "I WATCH THE EVENING NEWS YOU DOLT!" -the irony was delicious, however I kept my wits about explaining the media situation in this country. This is where things got interesting.

He began putting his finger in my chest, demanding that I return the flag to full staff as the only rightful individual to request that a flag be flown at half staff be either the President or the Governor, that I am an anti-American socialist sympathizer and that "I ought to be deported to Iraq and fight along side with the terrorists!" While I do not take kindly to near strangers to belittle my patriotism, I very calmly requested that his gross overstepping of physical boundaries was unneeded, I removed his index finger from my chest, as his wife comes barreling out of the house "KEEP YOUR HANDS OFF MY HUSBAND! expletive, expletive!"

I looked to his home, and noticed that he himself has no symbol of his own self-righteous patriotism displayed at his residence, and responded "where might YOUR American flag flying in ANY respect be this afternoon?" and walked into back into my house. I could hear him at the top of his breath yelling, "THIS ISN'T THE LAST YOU'VE HEARD FROM ME ON THIS SUBJECT HIPPIE!" while he stood in my lawn, contemplating returning the flag to full staff, I could see the gears turning in his head to wards doing such, he walked away with a look of dejection upon his face.

Now my question for DU is: Am I right in my decision to fly my American flag in front of my home at half staff out of respect for the fallen soldiers, or am I to wait for an administration that refuses to cease combat in an unjust war of aggression, because it wont happen in my eyes. Secondly, do I go to the store and spend the $25 and offer a peaceful resolution to this situation by purchasing an American flag for this family out of respect to our fallen soldiers?

[ret5hd]

1. if you bought him a flag...

could you sabatoge his pole mechanism so that his would only raise to half mast also?

[librechik]

89. I took my flag down the day we invaded

It's no longer a symbol of honor, to me.

[SemperEadem]

123. the moment he began making demands while standing on my property

was the moment in which he would have been told that he was tresspassing and that he needed to leave.

I am surprised that you allowed him to behave that way in your home and on your property.

Not only that, I would "Patriot Act" him for making terroristic threats.

[fujiyama]

126. I had one in my car

I ended up selling that car recently, but I never did take the flag out of the old car and place it in the new one.

[Arkana]

198. Sir, it is your patriotic duty

to tell your wingnut neighbor to go screw himself.

:evilgrin:

[seabeyond]

2. after your story in honor of your experience

i want to pull flag out of closet and hang on our pole at half mast, lol and a wink

and his arguement wasnt valid. you shouldnt be the one going over to iraq to fight, his butt should be over their in his patriotism he mouths

[coloradodem2005]

3. Fucking shit!!!!!!

Excuse my language. This is the kind of America that Bush is creating. There is no excuse for an asshole like this to be treating you like that because you are respecting the soldiers who died. You should have called the cops on them. Why don't they go to Iraq to fight if they believe in it so much.

[Earth_First]

15. Calling law enforcement was a passing thought...

I figure, the way the Rochester Police Department is already overtasked, understaffed, and underpaied, that a domestic dispute over the flying of an American flag would be a gross misuse of police involvement. Secondly, I am a member of the Rochester Police Department watch list as part of my involvement with the anti-war, social justice movement within the community, I would probably end up being the "victim" anyhow...

I shrug it off as another hateful, arrogant American...

[Prodemsouth]

25. Do you live in a monkey dominated city or state?

only concern for your safety.

[jean]

44. but maybe you should go into the RPD and file a short report - so if any

further finger-stubs to the chest occur there will be a record.

[proud patriot]

95. Yes it should be documented on the record

in case it goes further ...:hi:

I have done this with all my hate mail that
I've recieved after LTTE's that I've written
have been published .

[murielm99]

207. Why didn't I think of that...regarding the hate mail?

I got some last time I had an LTTE. Unfortunately, the worst one was unsigned.

However, the praise letters outnumbered the hate mail last time. I took this as a good sign and threw the hate stuff in the trash.

Next time, though, I will show the hate mail to the cops.

[thom1102]

138. He made a specific threat against you, when he said

"You haven't heard the last of me." You absolutely NEED to call the police and file a report, so that it is on record. That way, if he decides to seriously do something, they have your complaint on file. Never underestimate what these people are capable of.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

156. Yes it's important to have it on the record in case he tweaks out

[keithyboy]

172. It's your 'patriotic' duty to report him to the police

Keep a video camera close by your window at all times.

[Cascadian]

157. The best thing to do is to ignore him.

Unless he imposes physical harm to you or damages your property.

John

[yellowdawgdem]

203. I agree. Just ignore him

if at all possible. Though it can't be very comfortable for you knowing you have this hell bent angry neighbor next door. But I doubt it will go any further than it did. It really is starting to get like the Civil War in some ways.

[drfemoe]

164. that's such great news

They're *watching* YOU! A peaceful citizen. Thank you tax dollars at work. I can rest easy knowing law enforcement has peace activists under surveillance.

This is not a bad little planet we've got here. Why must *humanity* create a living hell upon it?

[murielm99]

206. If he bothers you again, you should tell him that

you can fly the fucking flag upside down, and it is none of his business.

Flying the flag upside down is a distress signal. Maybe we should be doing that. We are in distress!

[9215]

212. Don't worry he will find out soon enough that the Commie, Socialist,

HIPPIES were right about Iraq.


I'd bet that this guy never served in the military either.

[NightTrain]

4. Would your dumbass neighbor prefer that you set it on fire instead?

Hey, it's your flag; do whatever the hell you want with it!

[eyesroll]

5. It's amazing how well the Right embraces faux patriotism

This week, a Realtor left American flags -- with her business card stapled to the stick -- poked into everyone's lawn (a clear violation of the flag code).

Real patriotism? Thinking patriotism? Nah. Who needs thought?

I do stick flag postage stamps upside down, when I remember. It's a signal of distress.

[Missy Vixen]

147. Ohhh, the Right are so well-versed in flag etiquette

>Real patriotism? Thinking patriotism? Nah. Who needs thought?<

Our next-door neighbors (hopefully, someone will buy their house SOON,) put their worn-out, faded, tattered flag IN THE GARBAGE CAN! I thought my head was going to explode.

According to flag procedure, one either burns or buries an American flag that is no longer appropriate for display. Worn, tattered, faded flags are not to be flown. There was quite a family discussion the night before the garbage pickup about whether or not to remove the flag from their garbage on the sly and correctly dispose of it.

The neighbor also was horrified to discover (after making the statement that "Democrats don't serve in the military,") that DH is a Gulf War I vet.

Julie

[proud patriot]

165. Yes to properly dispose of a worn out flag

Is to take them to your local fire department and
boy scouts . They will honorably give it a ceremony
disposing of it Properly .

[Mari333]

6. I would call the police if my neighbour did that

thats harassment, and is sue able. No one can tell you how to fly your flag on your own property.
police.
I wouldnt let them get away with that.

[fishnfla]

7. fly it upside down

that'll piss him off even more

[Arugula Latte]

13. Or replace it with a

big ol' peace sign flag. That should give him a seizure.

What an asshole!!

[MUAD_DIB]

47. Would a U.N. flag help the situation?

U.N. Flag

Peace Flag

American Flag: Strategically at half mast.

[Earth_First]

51. Ironically enough...

someone stole my United Nations flag about 4 months ago. I am suspect to feeling that it had nothing to do with anything but neighborhood kids seeing a cool new flag they have never seen before, and not meant in a harassing manner by some freeper...

However, anything is possible...

[bahrbearian]

62. Fly the peace flag over the American flag..

[TimMooring]

194. Top flag on the pole

I may be wrong but I believe the national flag must be above all others and that adjacent poles must be of less height with Ole Glory in the central position.

[goddess40]

214. actually the American flag is suppose to be the only flag on the pole

edit: I have complained to my son's school several times about the way they fly the flag there. They have three flags on one pole and the American flag is tattered and faded. All I get is a cool thank you for noticing and nothing is done. Personally I really don't care but the school is full of children from republican families that got all up tight over a friend of mine who carried an upside down flag at our weekly protest. I hate hypocrites.

[TimMooring]

220. Didn't know that

I've often seen state flags flown below the national flag. Respect for the flag seems to be a hot button issue. I don't mind having the discussion. I do have a point and its a simple one. Fighting over the flag is non-productive and incendiary. Our principles are hopefully deeper than that. On the list of civil liberties that I still have using the flag as a form of political expression is towards the bottom. It impugns to many people who don't deserve it. I don't really see that much expression of political issues that are important to me. The flag issue is actually illustrative of frustration that I feel. My heros are Robert Byrd and Ted Kennedy who warned so eloquently of the consequences of going to war. People who believe that they're going to "wake" up in a perfect world after a jolly good debate over burning the flag or setting police cars afire are part of the problem not the solution. Political movements require strategy and a policy of inclusion not exclusion. I want to see the USA rejoin the community of nations so that all of us can get on with our lives. That requires electing John Kerry in november. People who want to burn the flag now or fly it upside down may find that their opposition agrees with them and will do all they can to help speed the demise of our democracy. Some of the ultra-left here are just playing with themselves.

[proud patriot]

167. I suggest The Gadsden or the Minutemen Culpepper

That's what I fly in my front yard .

[Earth_First]

18. I have thought about it on previous occasions...

contrary to popular belief, it is not a symbol of disrespect, it is a sign of Amerika in distress...

[Renew Deal]

67. Freeper scum were doing that during Clintons impeachment

Turnabout is fair play.

[NightTrain]

19. I did that during Operation Desert Scam!

I put an inverted American flag in my car's rear window in early 1991. Those who got the meaning often gave me dirty looks on the freeways! :evilgrin:

[Guaranteed]

80. No, don't do that.

That's totally out of line. You'd prove him right.

[watercolors]

100. WE did that after stolen election

Pissed my right wing nieghbor of real bad, hasn;t talk to us since. No great lose, he flies four big flags, sort of overkill. Its your flag , I"d fly it at half staff. Ours will not go up till this a-hole is gone!

[SCRUBDASHRUB]

186. Buy a Make Love Not War Banner (I have one) and hang it

so it faces his house (if you have a window that does).

Seriously, I wouldn't do anything to provoke him (you didn't to begin with, of course). This guy is a loose cannon.

[coltman]

8. What I do is...

refuse to fly the flag or show any support for the neocon Gov. that has stolen power until it is removed from office.

[Colin Ex]

9. Buying him a flag sounds like a nice gesture.

I say, though, do what you want regarding your flag -- hang it upside down, draw on it, sacrifice it to Satan.

There really isn't a lot he can do about it. It is, after all, your right.

Purchasing him a flag seems nice -- might let him know you mean well.

-C

[MUAD_DIB]

52. I wouldn't buy a flag for that bum if he was my neighbor.

Doing that is tantamount to giving the schoolyard bully your lunch money.

[Hav]

10. .

I don't see it as a disrespectful or unpatriotic sign.
Next time he asks you to live in Iraq, ask him whether he or his children want to sign up to prove how patriotic they are.

It's your flag and your property, he should better take care what he is doing.

[stopbush]

11. Fuck 'em. Next time, call the police on him.

Why offer a peace offering to him? He's the asshole, not you.

As far as any "official" request that flags be flown at half-staff, I've lived in towns where local tragedies - like a fire fighter dying in the line of duty - have prompted flags to be lowered without any official request from the mayor or anyone else. I think your asshole neighbor is making up his own rules here.

If you really want to piss him off, you should buy a tri-colour and fly THAT! I realize you weren't looking to piss him off, but, what the hell.

BTW - I'm sure that he'll be the one looking to escalate the situation. Have your video camera ready.

Further BTW: flag code. When flying the flag at half-staff, you must first raise it to full staff and then lower it to half staff.

Further further BTW: I stopped flying my flag once we invaded Iraq, and had I pretty much raised it every single day for the better part of 20 years. My US flag will not fly again until John Kerry assumes the office.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

73. Better yet, get a restraining order.

[belle]

169. really. He sounds like a nutjob. Has he given you grief before?

I just get the impression that if it wasn't your flag, it'd have been something else. He sounds like a teakettle just waiting for a chance to go off.

[mrdmk]

83. raising the flag to half mast

1) Raise the flag to full mast.

2) Lower the flag all of the way to the bottom (as if to remove it).

3) Raise the flag to half mast.


Taking the flag down.

1) Lower the flag all the way to the bottom.

2) Raise the flag to full mast.

3) Lower the flag to the bottom, remove and fold.


The reason I believe to raise the flag to full mast and then lower to the bottom is a salute to the fallen.

[bearfartinthewoods]

12. careful...he may call the flag cops on you

The flag, when flown at half-staff, should be first hoisted to the peak for an instant and then lowered to the half-staff position. The flag should be again raised to the peak before it is lowered for the day. On Memorial Day the flag should be displayed at half-staff until noon only, then raised to the top of the staff. By order of the President, the flag shall be flown at half-staff upon the death of principal figures of the United States Government and the Governor of a State, territory, or possession, as a mark of respect to their memory. In the event of the death of other officials or foreign dignitaries, the flag is to be displayed at half-staff according to Presidential instructions or orders, or in accordance with recognized customs or practices not inconsistent with law. In the event of the death of a present or former official of the government of any State, territory, or possession of the United States, the Governor of that State, territory, or possession may proclaim that the National flag shall be flown at half-staff. The flag shall be flown at half-staff 30 days from the death of the President or a former President; 10 days from the day of death of the Vice President, the Chief Justice or a retired Chief Justice of the United States, or the Speaker of the House of Representatives; from the day of death until interment of an Associate Justice of the Supreme Court, a Secretary of an executive or military department, a former Vice President, or the Governor of a State, territory, or possession; and on the day of death and the following day for a Member of Congress. The flag shall be flown at half-staff on Peace Officers Memorial Day, unless that day is also Armed Forces Day.


http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagetiq.html#4

[oneighty]

34. Very true and yipeeee

Now we go after all the flags waving tattered and torn sadly from the vehicles of false patriots. We send Bush* to jail for writing on a flag simile. This flag worship is nonsense.

I say lay down your flags you summer soldiers and sunshine patriots sally forth to Iraq, relieve a soldier there give him/her a break.

In my village the great flag of the USA adorns discarded Pizza boxes waiting curbside for the garbage truck. Flag etiquette be damned.

180

[Earth_First]

54. Symbolism at it's finest

"In my village the great flag of the USA adorns discarded Pizza boxes waiting curbside for the garbage truck."

[stopbush]

58. My fav are the people who leave the flag out all night without

any illumination directed at it. Last I looked, no one's been arrested for that one.

Or, how about the restriction on using the flag in advertising? When have they ever enforced that one? (The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard. Advertising signs should not be fastened to a staff or halyard from which the flag is flown.)

I think flag etiquette is symbolically important, but the fact is that most people are totally unaware of it and there are no penalties for not following it. AFAIK, they have yet to outlaw burning the flag in protest.

Here's a question: do you fly the flag at half staff if the request to do so comes from a president who was illegally installed by a partisan court?

[Earth_First]

68. I have flown my flag as I see fit for years...

regardless of what an illegally installed, court appointed "President" has requested...

[PCIntern]

14. Speaking of half-mast

tell him that his wife's been spreading the news around the neighborhood that that's where his member goes...no further.

Might be that she's exaggerating.

[stopbush]

43. So my neighbor sez, "I don't know what's wrong with my wife.

"Every time we make love, she falls asleep before I'm done."

To which I replied, "Yeah...what's up with that?"

[vetwife]

78. Had confrontation with neighbor over Kerry sign in window !

This is very reminiscent of just about a month ago when my winger neighbor who I have never met stormed into my yard and demanded that my kids not get on the easement of his property. I assured him that the kids don't go in his yard but I would keep them away. He then shot back about my Commie Placard in my window. I got up in this jerk's face and said, "This isn't about the kids. This is about Kerry. He said "Yeah Hanoi Kerry !" I glared at him and said, Are you a veteran? He said "Yes I am". I replied Combat?...He said "Well No".

I not politely at all said, "Well not ten feet away in the bed lies my husband who is a Combat Vietnam Vet who fought with the 101st Special Forces in 70-71. I don't think you want to call him a communist. Now get this staight Neighbor, We choose Kerry over Bush. We would choose our cat over Bush. And (not to disenfranchise the author of the thread) but this is what I said, that piece of cloth made in China run up a pole made in India does not make you patriotic.I said that to the neighbor. I started a Veterans organization and help vets on a daily basis. I am married to a disabled COMBAT VET ! So don't come over here questioning my patriotism. What have you done other than fly a flag? He just stood there. Glaring. I didn't blink ! Now you go on back home and I will promise you one thing. My kids won't come near your yard and you better never step foot in mine again!
Do I make myself clear enough? My husband who was awakened by my not so nice voice, Said I guess we know which side he is on. I said, "I knew the day he ran that flag up the pole and had all that We support the Troops crap on his truck"

I also told the jerk, Wrapping himself in a flag and calling it patriotic did not a True lover of America make. I also said, You wingers, you think you own God, Flag and Country. YOU DON'T !
Your boy is going down . Get used to it.
Now, this poster sounds like a person who really respects the flag so tell the winger BACK OFF. They are so used to us backing down and shutting up. Well. Those days are gone. Congrats on your spirit and Good for you announcing that we on the left have patriotism as well.

[SemperEadem]

128. I want you as my neighbor!!!!!!

Well done!

[vetwife]

152. Thanks after that I wish you were my neighbor too !

[ldf]

175. My HERO!

:loveya:

right on sister! they need to know that the day of backing down and apologizing for caring is over.

[yardwork]

188. Thank you! Thank you for speaking up for your husband and so many others!

[vetwife]

195. Ya'll are inspirational and anybody who listens to Guy I am Amanda

I am Amanda who put out that Take it Back CD that Bartcop and Guy James is carrying. The one who zapped Katherine Harris on CNN and won the C-Span contest..so that neighbor really picked the wrong liberal to pick a fight with ! Thanks ya'll !

[SayitAintSo]

219. Oh God bless you ...

In reading your response I totally agree with you that the wingers are use to us backing down. They are in for a big surprise because time are changing and we are sick of them acting like they have the corner on patriotism. I am really encouraged to see the evidence that we are starting to stand up and fight back.

[oneighty]

16. Go to your local court

Take out a restraining order against him. The guy sounds dangerous. He has no business at all on your property or your body.

180

[sangha]

35. I agree. Report to the police, then get an OP

You should let him know that this is a serious matter and you are not going to be casual about this. They act as if their actions have no consequences. They need to learn that they can have serious consequences.

[gristy]

17. Well, in all due respect to your position, which of course I share...

I believe there is a protocol for displaying the flag, and that protocol really isn't meant to be modified and interpreted. Flying the flag at half staff is a symbol full of meaning and grief. While we do grieve mightily over the loss of our soldiers in Iraq, I would have to very respectfully say that flying the flag at half staff for this reason would not be proper.

That said, your neighbors were quite rude.

[sangha]

39. Those are good points

but I would argue that those rules are not operable when the moral authority that justifies conformance to those rules is eroded by the lack of morality displayed by our present government. I would go so far as to argue that this is the very reason for why that neighbor was so upset. Unconsciously, he recognizes how it calls the morality of the Bush* admins actions into question.

[leesa]

77. So that is your opinion, but what sense does it make?

The protocol stated above by Bear Fart stated when it MUST be flown at half mast, but I didn't see anything where it can ONLY be flown at half mast at these times.

I however, am not into these kinds of symbols, so it's all quite meaningless to me, but I would never comment about someone else wanting to fly a flag.

[Selwynn]

104. Umm...I'm free to display my flag however I fucking want.

It's pretty fucking sick when we live in a country that cares more about its precious "flag protocols" than it does about the murder rape and pillage of the world done under the banner of that fucking flag.

[johnfunk]

179. The flag protocols are "musts" (as opposed to "may")

...but if I read them correctly they do not preclude you or anyone from flying the flag at half mast for other reasons.

[JohnLocke]

20. What an ass! Buy two flags, now!

[Prodemsouth]

21. You are honoring the fallen that him and his monkey President will not.

It is hitting home just like Vietnam. You happened to confirm that his world is crashing around him. His anger wasn't about the flag, but he is discovering he was taken and just does not want to come to terms with that. Keep your wits about you don't buy him a flag. Keep flying the flag at half staff. My own belief is that it should be flown in the distress mode-upside down.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

22. Flying the flag half staff shows respect for those poor boys and girls

that died. Your neighbor has empathy with those that died-and he has no right to tell you HOW to fly your flag. He sounds like a lockstep Nazi to me. Why do only authority figures deserve half staff, and not our soldiers?

[HEyHEY]

23. Jesus H Christ

Tell him it's just a fucking flag.

"you ain't heard the last of this hippie" - that's awsome
:-)

[LibDemAlways]

24. I would have told the idiot

to get off my property and mind his own business. While I had the opportunity I would also have told him that anything he sees on US television is not "news." It's propaganda, and he's an apparent victim of government brainwashing. Finally, I might have added that if he feels so strongly about the rightness of the cause in Iraq, he ought to get down to the local recruitment center and sign up.

[Mr_Lefty]

26. Last I knew this is America

I think you are allowed to burn yor flag if you want to. Flying half mast in respect of dead soldiers seems right to me. People are so quick to give up their rights because of blind patriotism.

[Catherine Vincent]

27. Wow, this sounds serious.

I hope that neighbor doesn't harm you or anything on your property. If I were you, I would call the police and let them know what happened. And I can't believe his wife, she waited until after you removed his finger from you and then comes running out call you names. I think they were looking for a fight. I don't feel you should do a damn thing to offer them a peace offering. They're freepers. Fuck em.

[MuseRider]

28. Call the

police and file a report so that they know he is getting a bit violent. Then go out, turn your flag upside down and raise it to half mast. Keep your doors locked, you might even want a video camera handy since this guy sounds about ready to go off. Now this is my first, gut reaction because I am very sick and tired of these bullies. Your offer to buy him a flag is a nice, peaceful thing to do and probably the best option but don't for one minute think that someone with this mindset will accept it graciously.

[HEyHEY]

32. He should have said "Fine, I'll get rid of it" then lit it on fire.

:evilgrin:

That would have been an interesting reaction to see.

[senseandsensibility]

29. Are things really getting this out of control?

I don't know, maybe I'm just sheltered living in a very liberal (by most standards) area, but to me your neighbor was way, way out of line. In fact, you'd be justified in calling the cops, not that I'm suggesting that. However, I do admire the way you stood up to him. These people can be VERY scary. Don't let him intimidate you. Keep fighting the good fight. If more people were willing to do what you did, we wouldn't have so many of these freaks.

[spanone]

30. I would repectfully tell him to go fuck himself.

[immoderate]

69. Yes , he deserves respect!

--IMM

[RapidCreek]

31. Do you have a video camera?

Do you have the money to buy a wireless LAN camera? In the first case, the next time your neighbor comes to your house...before you open the door have your wife get the video camera ready and start filming through your front room window. Next Entertain the asshole in your front yard. Say exactly what is on your mind...but don't yell or engage in any physical action which might be appear as threatening on the tape. Really grind you neighbors ass. Hopefully he will punch you in the nose...or stick you in the chest with his finger again. After he leaves call a lawyer first and ask him to come over to the house...then call the cops and file battery charges against your neighbor.

If you can purchase a wireless LAN camera along with some cheap surveilance software....you should do so. Set it up so it aims out your front window at your flag. Leave it running all the time...there's no telling what sort of fun shit you might film.

RC

[RedEarth]

33. Buy him and flag and tell him he will be in your prayers......

actually, this guy sounds like a nut and could be dangerous. Some of these people can go postal without a lot of provocation.

[doni_georgia]

36. The technical rules of flag flying

Technically, the US Congress passed rules concerning flag flying in 1942 during WWII.

"The flag, when flown at half-staff, should be first hoisted to the peak for an instant and then lowered to the half-staff position. The flag should be again raised to the peak before it is lowered for the day. On Memorial Day the flag should be displayed at half-staff until noon only, then raised to the top of the staff. By order of the President, the flag shall be flown at half-staff upon the death of principal figures of the United States Government and the Governor of a State, territory, or possession, as a mark of respect to their memory. In the event of the death of other officials or foreign dignitaries, the flag is to be displayed at half-staff according to Presidential instructions or orders, or in accordance with recognized customs or practices not inconsistent with law. In the event of the death of a present or former official of the government of any State, territory, or possession of the United States, the Governor of that State, territory, or possession may proclaim that the National flag shall be flown at half-staff. The flag shall be flown at half-staff 30 days from the death of the President or a former President; 10 days from the day of death of the Vice President, the Chief Justice or a retired Chief Justice of the United States, or the Speaker of the House of Representatives; from the day of death until interment of an Associate Justice of the Supreme Court, a Secretary of an executive or military department, a former Vice President, or the Governor of a State, territory, or possession; and on the day of death and the following day for a Member of Congress. The flag shall be flown at half-staff on Peace Officers Memorial Day, unless that day is also Armed Forces Day. As used in this subsection -"


****
That said - there are others rules of flag flying the conservatives ignore all the time -

* Flags should never be flown at night unless illuminateed by spot light
* Flags should never be flown during rain or other inclement weather.

[Hand]

37. By the way...

The moment he put his finger on your chest without your permission, he committed misdemeanor assault. Also if you tell him to leave your property and he doesn't, you've got him on trespassing.

As to all the yelling by him and his wife... well, disturbing the peace and potentially disorderly conduct. Just FYI.

And he can buy his own damn flag, IMHO.

:mad:

[bleedingheart]

38. your neighbor is a first class ass

I would call the police and file a report...so its on file in case he does something really stupid.

Then I would buy the "Don't Tread on Me" flag and fly it under the american flag...hee hee

[JohnLocke]

45. The Gadsden flag, you mean?

It's in my sig...

[bleedingheart]

50. yup that's it!!!

didn't know the formal name...a neighbor of mine is flying it up the street!

Its also part of our county's flag here in PA as I recall...

[JohnLocke]

57. Hmm...

A little history and other stuff...
http://www.gadsden.info/
...and some flags you can buy:
http://www.google.com/froogle?q=Gadsden+flag

[bleedingheart]

148. here is our county's flag

http://www.amrev.org/htdocs/html/fm/CGFlags/34.shtml

[JohnLocke]

199. Cool! (nt)

[rumguy]

40. tell him to sod off

as the brits would put it

[SemperEadem]

130. I thought it was "naff off"

at least that's what the Princess Royale said once...

[MUAD_DIB]

41. The next time that he comes over with his bravado ask him

why he hates America by not flying a flag? Ask him if he is UnAmerican? Doesn't he support the troops?

You can also go on to ask him if this is a free country. And if it isn't then he can get the f#@k off your property.

[Nightjock]

42. If you are wrong so are others

I saw a heartbreaking story about a man and wife whose only son was just killed in the Bushco war and they are flying thier flag at half staff. So were many of thier friends with flags!!!
If I had a flag on my lawn I would do the same. I grieve for all of the people losing lives and limbs in a war we did not have to fight in Iraq.
And I will never fly a flag until Bush is out of office.

For the last two years with this moron running the country into the ground and half of my fellow citizens being brainwashed-- I have not felt very patriotic.

[Earth_First]

46. All excellent suggestions...

I especially enjoy the suggestions that I fly the "distressed flag" or "Don't Tread on Me"

I'm a little confused, however by Prodemsouth's statement "Do you live in a monkey dominated city or state?" I feel that I can interpret that several ways, in which did you mean, Prodemsouth?

[bleedingheart]

53. he meant a repub dominated state..

monkey=chimp=bush/bush supporter

that's what I think prodem meant...

[noahmijo]

48. The moment he put his finger on your chest

He committed assault. Unfortunately from your story so far since you invited him in, but never requested that he leave you can't call it tresspassing.

But the charges of assault and disturbing the peace I think are definitely in order. If I were you I'd have him charged, but unfortunately it's your word vs his since it seems you have no witnesses, but still alerting authorities wouldn't hurt.

Also point out the "Haven't heard the last from me on this subject hippie!" is a direct verbal threat if you speak to the police about the matter.

Offering a peaceful solution to your neighbor I think would just infuriate him even more, He's obviously too fargone to understand what's going on.

Well quite frankly I take your statement as patriotic and one of benevolence, if I lived in your neighborhood I'd be willing to either loan you a gun or room up with ya for a few days because guys like this guy can be dangerous you never know what their anger may cause them to do within ten minutes of not being able to contain it.

Good luck taking care of this.

[PartyPooper]

49. Fly the French flag next to the American flag and get a poodle guard dog!

:evilgrin:

[mrdmk]

87. You mean a french poodle, don't you?

:evilgrin:

[PartyPooper]

97. Oui. A very large Standard French Poodle!

:D

[mrdmk]

106. I have a pittbull mix he can borrow

If Max (the pittbull) does not like you, he does not menace words, Max makes it very clear about his opinion.

Then again, with people as in the original post, on the loose (per sey), I will keep my dog.

[freetobegay]

55. You have every right!

If he persists, I would call the police. But then again he could call the storm troopers on you.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

56. Buy a gun and the next time this redneck nazi comes.....

you just show him the gun.

[coltman]

63. this is not....

a real good idea IMHO.In producing a gun you will have escalated this to deadly force you are now in very deep shit.If you feel this threatened call the cops let them use force ,it's their job.

[SemperEadem]

133. I agree..

you don't show a gun to an antagonist unless you're ready for an escalation in tension. He could then say that you threatened him with it and the police will be at your door.

your best bet is to document this, file a restraining order against him and his wife, buy the motion controlled video camera--he has threatened you and that should not be allowed to stand.

[NickB79]

99. I'm all for gun ownership

But you do not simply flash a gun whenever you feel like it. You only bring out a firearm in a confrontation when you feel like your life or the lives of others around you are in danger. A good rule of thumb is to never draw your weapon unless you are prepared at that very moment to use it. Possibly let it slip in conversation that you and your husband are avid hunters or shooters, but even then you'd have to be careful it doesnt come off as a threat.

[noahmijo]

131. That's true

And it just so happens that this fellow's case looks like it could possibly involve this guy coming back over to his house with a crowbar or something to either intimidate or destroy a piece of house or property.

EITHER situation lawfully and rightfully justifies the drawing of a gun and a verbal warning that if the person does not cease immediately and back off that shots will be fired.

You don't have the right to pull a gun on someone in anger, but you do have the right to in instances where life or property are being threatened.

(incidently before anyone mentions it yes you can't KILL a person for smashing your property up, but you can either threaten to, or tag a non vital spot like a leg to get the perp to stop shattering your storm windows or spraypainting your car for example. This can be done of course after issuing a clear verbal warning to stop.)

[Old and In the Way]

153. Hey, nothing threatening with target shooting in your backyard.

Or cleaning/sighting in your gun in a place where the guy can see you. :-)

[koopie57]

59. In our city

we have a person who will get the two parties together to mediate a dispute. I would call the police and talk to this person. Let them know what happened (so it is on record) and that you would be willing to sit down with this neighbor and a third party to talk. I think that we need to start talking to these people and listening instead of yelling. But I know when they come at you out of the blue it takes you by such surprise you just react. Been there, done that. But I look at all the great leaders and how they got things to change, just little by little and as peaceful a means as possible.

[Earth_First]

61. That is exactly a type situation I would enjoy...

I'm not trying to portray myself as some sort of "softie" liberal, however I am a firm believer in peaceful resolutions...

I'll have to look into this...thank you for the suggestion!

[qanda]

90. This is an excellent idea

I had a neighbor who was very mean and evil to my family and when we got fed up enough we called the police and mediation was their suggestion. Fortunately, just the mention of mediation seemed to turn things around for us. My neighbors are so kind to us now that I could not imagine living next to anyone but them.

It's not good to have an emotional reaction to situations like this. Pride can get in the way of good judgment and that's why mediation is such a good option.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

60. You should file a police report

I didn't hear you say you asked him to leave your property, but be sure to do that if it happens again. You should file a report however, because the cops can probably be more proactive if it is a second report, instead of a first one.

[Renew Deal]

64. You are technically wrong on the flag thing.

You have no "right" to fly it at half staff. That doesn't make your neighbor right. Especially considering he doesn't even have one. I wonder what your neighbors freep name is.

http://suvcw.org/flag.htm

(m) The flag, when flown at half-staff, should be first hoisted to the peak for an instant and then lowered to the half-staff position. The flag should be again raised to the peak before it is lowered for the day. On Memorial Day the flag should be displayed at half-staff until noon only, then raised to the top of the staff. By order of the President, the flag shall be flown at half-staff upon the death of principal figures of the United States Government and the Governor of a State, territory, or possession, as a mark of respect to their memory. In the event of the death of other officials or foreign dignitaries, the flag is to be displayed at half-staff according to Presidential instructions or orders, or in accordance with recognized customs or practices not inconsistent with law. In the event of the death of a present or former official of the government of any State, territory, or possession of the United States, the Governor of that State, territory, or possession may proclaim that the National flag shall be flown at half-staff. The flag shall be flown at half-staff 30 days from the death of the President or a former President; 10 days from the day of death of the Vice President, the Chief Justice or a retired Chief Justice of the United States, or the Speaker of the House of Representatives; from the day of death until interment of an Associate Justice of the Supreme Court, a Secretary of an executive or military department, a former Vice President, or the Governor of a State, territory, or possession; and on the day of death and the following day for a Member of Congress. The flag shall be flown at half-staff on Peace Officers Memorial Day, unless that day is also Armed Forces Day. As used in this subsection -


(1) The term ''half-staff'' means the position of the flag when it is one-half the distance between the top and bottom of the staff;
(2) The term ''executive or military department'' means any agency listed under sections 101 and 102 of title 5, United States Code; and

(3) The term ''Member of Congress'' means a Senator, a Representative, a Delegate, or the Resident Commissioner from Puerto Rico.



http://www.usflag.org/nff.half.staff.html
Flag Etiquette
Half Staff Displays

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From the Nov.-Dec. 1994 National Flag Foundations "Standard Bearer" Magazine.
This article remains the copyrighted material of the National Flag Foundation and is presented here by permission.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Flying the flag at half-staff is an area of flag etiquette that most people want to make sure they get right. It is also an area for which the road to error is routinely paved with good intentions. With that in mind, we offer this refresher course as the all-important intersection where knowledge meets benevolence.

FLYING THE FLAG AT HALF-STAFF: The pertinent section of the Flag Code says, "by order of the President, the flag shall be flown at half-staff upon the death of principal figures of the United States Government and the Governor of a State, territory, or possesion, as a mark of respect to their memory. In the event of the death of other officials or foreign dignitaries, the flag is to be displayed at half-staff according to Presidential orders, or in accordance with recognized customs or practices not inconsistent with law.

In the event of the death a present or former official of the government of any State, territory, or possession of the United States, the Governor of that state, territory, or possession may proclaim that the National flag shall be flown at half-staff." The code also includes other related details including the specific length of time during which the flag should be displayed at half-staff, in the event of the death of a "principal figure"(e.g., 30 days for the death of a sitting or former President, 10 days for the death of a sitting Vice-President,etc.).

GOOD-FAITH MISUNDERSTANDINGS: Although the code is actually pretty clear, confusion continues to occur. For example, U.S. Attorney General Janet Reno recently ordered the American Flag flown at half-staff on all U.S. Department of Justice buildings, in honor of several DEA agents who had died. While NFF understands this gesture, the Flag Code does not give Attorney General Reno the authority to issue that order. Closer to NFF's Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania home, Mayor Tom Murphy ordered all flags flown at half-staff to honor the victims of a plane crash. Here again, a well-intentioned gesture, but one for which no authority exists. NFF points out these "good-faith misunderstandings" not to criticize or embarrass anyone, but rather to head off a growing trivialization of this memorial salute, and to preserve the dignity and significance of flying the U.S. flag at half-staff. To any readers who may think that NFF is insensitive for raising these breaches of etiquette, please be assured that our motives are pure. We grieve these human loses deeply; however, we believe proper respect for our flag must be maintained - no matter the circumstances.


We owe that respect to our living, our dead and our flag.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

74. Those rules are for Government buildings and facilities, are they not?

[Renew Deal]

102. I am not sure.

I think it's for everything, but I don't know for sure.

[immoderate]

76. but...

I have a question.

Surely the proper flag etiquette applies to government flags. And the rules are probably intended to apply to all American flags.

But what are your rights concerning your own private flag? If you can burn it, and the SCOTUS says you can, you should be able to fly it half staff or whatever staff.

And who, besides irate asshole neighbors would be designated to enforce these rules. Are there penalties for flag indiscretions?

--IMM

[Renew Deal]

101. Not sure

It's a good question. I thought that flag etiquette applies to all flags, gov't or not. I know you can burn it, but I am not sure. Now I think it wouldn't be against flag etiquette to fly it upside down if yo are in distress. I feel like we are in distress.

[Corgigal]

113. principal figures of the United States Government

Are the soliders dying in Iraq during wartime not considered principal figures? How would Bush fight his war without them?
Hell Bush doesn't even go to their funeral or meet the flights coming home to unload the bodies, it's nice someone cares.

[WhereIsMyFreedom]

159. Your quoted material is immaterial

It doesn't answer the question of whether he has the right to fly his flag at half-staff. It lists occasions on which the flag should or shall be flown at half-staff, but no where does it indicate that these are the only situations in which the flag can appropriately be flown at half-staff.

The statement by NFF also doesn't address the question. NFF is only claiming that the government officials did not have the authority to order flags flown at half-staff. Their only mention about the appropriateness of flying the flag at half-staff is their opinion that it trivializes the memorial salute if used in other circumstances. Personally, my opinion is to disagree and say that this is an acceptable situation in which to fly the flag at half-staff.

In terms of rights, every time Congress has passed a bill criminalizing desecration of the US flag, it has been struck down by the Supreme Court.

This is a telling quote taken from the same site that you quoted the U.S. Flag Code from:

Therefore, actions not specifically included in the Code may be deemed acceptable as long as proper respect is shown.

[polmaven]

65. Does he own a pick-up?

I looked to his home, and noticed that he himself has no symbol of his own self-righteous patriotism displayed at his residence, and responded "where might YOUR American flag flying in ANY respect be this afternoon?"

His flag prolly doesn't look like a flag anymore after being desecrated by being flown from his vehicle.

[klyon]

141. flag desecration

I have wondered:
What do people do with the last little bit of flag when they remove it from their radio antenna. Throw it in the trash? Burn it?
Do they have second thoughts about what they have done to the flag or do they just put a new one on and hit the highway.

KL

[polmaven]

171. I can only imagine

that they take it off the vehicle and thow it in the trash, and put on a new one and drive away. This is probably repeated cycle after cycle.

[AbbeyRoad]

66. You have the right to display it at half mast. Your neighbor is a jackass!

There is that pesky little thing a lot of conservatives keep forgetting about called the First Amendment to the Constitution. Your neighbor has some audacity to come over to YOUR house and threaten you in a physical manner because you have an intellectual disagreement.

He sounds like a f#*king idiot. Sorry, people like this piss me off. I grew up in an area of the country where there are plenty.

I think your idea to buy them a flag is a very noble gesture, however I predict that, if you do it, you will have the flag thrown unceremoniously back at you. I suppose you can try and be the better person about it, and I hope that this story ends well. Good luck, and stay safe. That guy and his wife both sound a little unhinged.

[polmaven]

125. Oh, my!

Thrown??? So that it might land ON THE GROUND????? No, that fine upstanding patriot would NEVER do anything like that! ....Would he?

I mean, where would the compassion be in that conservative?

[Lefergus70]

70. Most of the advice here unnerves me

Earth_First seems to be a sensitive person who doesn't like violent confrontations. I try to put myself in his shoes and I can't imagine pushing a tense situation further by provoking an irrational neighbor outright. I wouldn't be able to sleep at night with a menace like that so close; I might even sell my house and move to a Democratic ward.

The cam device, though, seems like an excellent one, something you might need in court if the situation spins out of control.

In any case, I'd keep the flag at half-mast. The rules posted here about flag-flying seem to apply to public buildings, or that is how I would interpret them.

[grasswire]

109. the advice here unnerves ME...

...because so many people who oppose police intervention in the lives of citizens on matters of politics want to bring them in, on a matter that could be resolved with some thought and compassion.

Maybe the neighbors could get together to make a small memorial garden on the property line. Plant a rose bush, or a tree. The angry neighbor might be defused by talking about our common sorrow and the difficulty finding paths of expression that respect differences -- which IS what America is all about.

[TimMooring]

137. U.S. as a force for good in the world

Regardless of the orientation of your flag I think we all would like to have our future back. Our very freedom to "do what we want with the flag - this is America" is at risk. We need to push theses "freedom haters" out of the White House - another emblem of the nation that's being desecrated by the cheneybush.

[TimMooring]

71. Flag Protocol

I disagree (dispassionately) with most, or all of the comments here. The flag is about protocol - it is an emblem of the nation and there is a specific protocol related to nearly everything associated with it. I object to bush putting his signature on the flag and people wearing it as jewelry or on their clothing. I don't go so far as to meddle in other peoples business and certainly *your* intention was from the heart. Even the governor of a state cannot decree that Ole Glory be flown at half-staff. The congress passes an act declaring a period of morning, during which the flag is required to be lowered. I'm sure there are people out there that know more about this than I, and there may be exceptions for military commanders in the field. Your neighbor was rude to not accept your desire to show respect and remorse for those brave soldiers who have lost their lives in this evil concoction of a war.

[bmbmd]

82. I suggest a peace offering.

You should fly the flag properly, even though I agree with your sentiment. Buy your neighbor a bottle of wine, apologize for offending him, and point out that you have both learned from this experience. We are, after all, the party of peace.

[SemperEadem]

135. and the next time Earth does something his neighbor doesn't like

how will he buy his "good will" then? That's like paying the mob for 'protection'.

No--the only peace offering is to stay off of your property and out of your face--if the guy doesn't like a flag flown at half-mast in Earth's yard, then that guy needs to move to a neighborhood where everyone thinks the way he does and he doesn't have to see what he doesn't like. He needs psychiatric counselling--him and his wife.

[ldf]

177. right, grovel at his feet and lick his boots while you are down there

that's what they are used to and expect.

[PA Democrat]

136. Governor Granholm of Michigan apparently disagrees with you

Governor Granholm Issues Proclamation Lowering Flags for Michigan Servicemen and Servicewomen Killed in Action

December 10, 2003

Governor Jennifer M. Granholm today issued a proclamation requiring United States flags lowered to half-staff throughout the state of Michigan and half-mast on Michigan waters to honor Michigan servicemen and servicewomen killed in action.

"For more than 228 years, our servicemen and servicewomen have underwritten our freedom with their duty, honor, and selfless service,” Granholm said. "We recognize that while all our military personnel are giving something of themselves to this country, some have given all by laying down their lives to defend the freedoms we hold so dear.”

http://www.michigan.gov/homeland/0,1607,7-173-23616-82861--,00.html

[TimMooring]

144. You're Wrong

I fully support and applaud the governor. Bully for him! The question was one of protocol regarding displaying the flag. I believe the cheneybush must be shamed into acknowledging these tragic, unnecessary deaths. I also believe treatment of the flag is a completely legitimate expression of political activism. In my opinion its only effective to the extent that it hurts. I respect the flag and other peoples respect for it. The same way that I try to respect their religion or personal convictions. It's a powerful symbol - showing disrespect for it will make you the focus of unwonted attention. Not my objective. I want to focus on getting the cheneybush out of the White House and getting our soldiers out of Iraq. The cheneybush knows nothing of sacrifice - indeed they're fat and happy.

[PA Democrat]

145. HUH?? What am "I wrong about"?

I said Governor Granholm (who is a SHE BTW) disagrees with you. Again, please explain how **I** am "wrong"? :eyes:

[TimMooring]

154. Explanation

I actually knew that as I've seen her recently on Bill Maher sorry - she was great. you're wrong that I have *any* disagreement with her. I position is simple. If you want to fight with your neighbor over the flag - then go for it. But just as in minor traffic accidents, there is an underlying law, or protocol in this case, that supports one party vs. the other. I fully support the governor. Her action might shame cheneybush or the right-wing congress into doing something to honor the very real sacrifices that *other people* are making. Fighting with your neighbor over the flag is something else.

[U4ikLefty]

204. Uh, you said in post #71

and I quote: "Even the governor of a state cannot decree that Ole Glory be flown at half-staff."

So do you agree with the governor "breaking protocol" or not?

[TimMooring]

216. I believe she is

I'm not an expert on the subject. So what? If she is engaging in a form of civil disobedience - then I support her and otherwise still. The same applies to Mayor
Newsome in SF. I believe there's at least one authoritive post here somewhere regarding protocol. The argument room is down the hall.

[leesa]

72. All I can think when I hear stories about people like this is that they

must have been terribly abused by authority figures in order to feel that they can't make an independent move without their masters telling them to do it.

I commend you on flying your flag at half mast to show respect for the dead and wounded in this travesty...ALL the dead and wounded.

[Safi]

75. Get a "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy" doormat...

...and when he stomps up to the door next time, answer it holding a shotgun, wearing a 'God Bless the USA' shirt/hat combo, with very loud Euro-techno music playing in the background.

I'm pretty certain that should induce spontaneous combustion -- problem solved.

:)

[Th1onein]

79. Fuck him!

Tell him that if he trespasses on your property again, you'll have him arrested.

[Cat Atomic]

81. It's your cloth, and you can do anything you want with it.

[TimMooring]

93. Less Dispassionate

Some of these remarks are silly and offensive. Remember the families of patriots who have died and some of the protocol related to the flag will be easier to understand. Their coffins are drapped with the flag in recognition of their love of country.. it is not a rag or just cloth. If you won't acknowledge this then you're just trying to piss people off and as i understand it your intention is to show respect to our military dead. gwb is desecrating our flag in Iraq and that should be our focus. Don't piss off patriots or democrats won't be able to get within sight of the White House not to mention inside it.

[Tinoire]

84. Keep your flag like that. Thank you! I'm going to do the same!

THANK YOU. We should ALL be doing this!

:loveya:

Tell your neighbour you're doing it for these guys:

U.S. Soldiers Killed in Iraq

As of Thursday, April 8, 642 U.S. service members have died since the beginning of military operations in Iraq last year, according to the Department of Defense. Of those, 448 died as a result of hostile action and 194 died of non-hostile causes.

Search by keyword:

Search by state:

Search

Here... you can even print and display pictures, honoring them, as well they should be...


Levi Angell
Angell was killed April 8, 2004, in Abu Ghurayb, on the western outskirts of Baghdad, when his Humvee was hit by a rocket-propelled grenade.

Age: 20 Hometown: Cloquet, Minn.
Died: 04/08/2004
Service: Marine Rank: Lance Cpl.


Tyanna S. Felder
Felder died April 7, 2004, in Balad of injuries from an attack on her convoy April 4 in Mosul.

Age: 22 Hometown: Bridgeport, Conn.
Died: 04/07/2004
Service: Army Rank: Spc.
Unit: 296th Brigade Support Battalion, 3rd Brigade, 2nd Infantry Division, Fort Lewis, Wash.


William W. Labadie Jr.
Labadie died April 7, 2004, in Baghdad, Iraq, when his camp was attacked by individuals using rockets and small arms fire.

Age: 45 Hometown: Bauxite, Ark.
Died: 04/07/2004
Service: Army Rank: Sgt. 1st Class


Marvin L. Miller
Miller died April 7, in Balad, Iraq, when he was shot while on traffic control duty.

Age: 38 Hometown: Dunn, N.C.
Died: 04/07/2004
Service: Army Rank: Sgt. 1st Class

There are 638 more on this conservative site. Let's honor them all.

[The Backlash Cometh]

85. I'd say that is one boy scout who is still pissed he never earned his

arrow of light.

[randr]

86. Next time he steps on your lawn shoot him.

He will respect your use of a god given right.

[Blue Gardener]

88. Half-Staff or Half-Mast?

That's always confused me. Anyway, your neighbor sounds a little scary, I think the video camera is an excellent idea. Maybe you could plant a flower bed in your front lawn in the shape of a peace sign.

[TimMooring]

96. Half-staff on land, half-mast at sea (nt)

[guitar man]

91. Multiple broken bones,cuts,contusions,abrasions etc.

If he came on my property and stuck his finger in my chest,I would have stomped a mudhole right in the middle of his ass. That usually serves as a good deterrent from such future assaults.

You DO NOT have to put up with that kind of horse shit from these mouth breathers.:evilgrin:

[Stuckinthebush]

92. My analysis of the situation

This is not about the flag at all...

Obviously, he has monitored your "anti-American" activities in the past. I assume you have had Democratic bumper stickers or signs on your property in the past (or present). I also assume that you and he have had a few discussions in the past about our wonderful leader Bush and his screwed up policies. Clearly, this man is an unquestioning right-winger who is beginning to feel the heat.

I would imagine that while he and you may have had conversations in the past, they were slightly heated but not physical. Consider this: His fragile image of Bush as a great leader and America as a righteous defender of Democracy is quickly crumbling. Cognitive dissonance is setting in and he can no longer internally defend his beliefs so he is lashing out at minor symbols that affect him. You are a major symbol of the truth, so you are a great danger to his fragile mind-set. Your placing the flag at half staff represents the sadness that many Americans are now beginning to feel, but it also represents your sense of Patriotism which is in direct opposition to his. This otherwise benign act by you incites him to rage in his home against all liberals that don't understand the situation. You become a symbol for all that is crushing his fragile notions of patriotism, and his rage focuses more on you until he can't take it anymore and must confront this symbol. Your calm demeanor in the situation further incites him because calm represents control and a sense of peace. This creates more cognitive dissonance and he explodes and crosses the societally accepted physical barrier upon confrontations. When you react appropriately by moving his finger, his wife explodes because she is waiting for the physical confrontation from you. She runs out to express her shock at your physical confrontation without acknowledging her husband's role in the confrontation - this is her cognitive dissonance at work. Finally, as you calmly walk inside (right thing to do, by the way), you took away the object of this man's anger and left him with nothing. He screams that it is not over, and storms inside.

First - expect some violent act either against you or your property. His world is crumbling and his judgment is non-existent. I would be very vigilant.

Second - he is waiting for any opportunity to strike back at you either verbally or physically. Also, he is looking for some way to get at you legally. Do not give him any reason to strike - don't talk to him, don't touch his property, and don't violate any minor law (such as leaving trash off the curb, or letting your dog out without a leash). He is off balance and will try to make your life hell because you are the object of his dissonance.

Just be careful and good luck.

[salin]

108. excellent assessment

the thing about cognitive dissonance - especially when it peaks, is there is a fight to push out the disonance (where what is strongly believed is in juxtaposition with evidence ... and reconciliation of the two requires changing the first beliefs - which for some can be exceptionally, psychologically, threatening) which can escalate. It is a form of coping/surviving (mentally.)

The escalation is a sign that the disonance is there.. just beneath the surface. At this point in time there is the possibility that the person ... if the disonance is heightened (e.g., through additional information seeping through the media - esp info so undeniable that even Fox carries it).. that he will have to reconcile the combating beliefs and evidence which will force a shift in the beliefs (right now he is "reconciling" by denying the evidence.)

In a larger context this is a great political danger for bush. Even many die-hard believers are finding it harder and harder to reconcile their abject faith in the image of a "Christian Bush" doing all noble things that he can to make America safe, and the evidence that Bush isn't noble, has lied repeatedly in ways that make Americans less safe. In the end it will all depend upon how many reconcile by shifting the strongly held beliefs - or by continuing to attempt to deny the mounting evidence that contradicts those beliefs.

I say this to point out that in the original post's situation, that finding a reconciliation between the two neighbors might enable the gentleman, over time, to converse with those of differing views at points in times where the disonance grow even steeper (as very well might happen due to the media coverage of the 911 commission, and in the future the media coverage of the commission about preinvasion Iraq information - even though the info that gets through the press is somewhat managed (and probably the worst will never come out), the info that is coming out is still in strong juxtaposition with the image of noble war president bush.

For example, if one took above the advice of taking the high road, approaching the neighbor in a "the 'discussion' encouraged me to look further into flag protocal... a learning experience..." tone along with a tone of : clearly we both respect those who are serving (which was your intent to express by the half-mass to begin with) - even if we don't view the war the same..." this allows for a small bit of common ground (which will probably make him move through a small bit of additional cognitive dissonance... hippie peaceniks aren't supposed to respect, nor give a damn about those who have lost their lives... and here you are in front of him expressing the opposite, in a civil way... chances are that because of your concilatory conversation - that on this one he will resolve the cognitive dissonance with a "well I guess some of those peaceniks aren't as bad as I thought.") Key thing is opening the door for conversations in the future. If you can find civil ways to a) agree to disagree; and b) when conversing search for commonalities (where you do a agree on things)... then when he further has to reconcile the disonance per his feelings towards bush (be it on the economy, or any other area)... he just might turn to you for more information to try to reconcile his beliefs in the other direction (beyond violent rejection of symbols that force the cognitive dissonance, which as pointed out above, at the moment is you.)

Have read and heard numerous conversations where folks who were fervently behind bush, later turned to those they had derided for more information (e.g., news items, etc.) per specific bush policies... when they finally were starting to realize that things were not all "good" with bush - and wanted more info to allow them to feel "safer" (e.g., "backed up with information") for this shift in belief/perspective per bush.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

114. I agree...people who don't even know you and blast off at you

are dangerous no matter how benign THEY think they are. The guy is a nut who has nothing better to do that ruminate over others.

[LibertyorDeath]

94. Find an Iraqi flag & fly it along side the American

We're trying to help them achieve Democracy so it's only right that we show support tell that to this worm when he Demands answers

[TimMooring]

98. An excellent solution! (nt)

[Selwynn]

103. You're not right or wrong - just do whatever you fucking think is right.

And stop worrying about who thinks what.

[Earth_First]

105. The matter wasn't "who thinks what"

it was ultimately, in the end, do I engage in a peaceful solution of offering this character a peace offering in light of peaceful resolution to conflict, the explanation behind it was just contextual reference...

[Selwynn]

107. You "do" whatever you feel is best in your heart.

[Earth_First]

112. Thank you n/t

:)

[SemperEadem]

139. you'd be inviting a beat down by him by playing the "peacenik"

right now, the very idea that he could not intimidate you has probably increased the animosity he's feeling towards you. To go onto his territory talking about offering 'peace' gifts is like throwing gas on a smoldering fire. While it's well meaning and it plays really nicely in your imagination, the fact of reality is that you cannot control how he's going to react to it---and for you to go up into his face doing this is inviting a beat down.

LEAVE HIM ALONE AND DON'T APPROACH HIM. Take a path to see him forthcoming. You have been threatened by him. Why would you intentinally put yourself in danger? If someone issued a threat like that and you didn't report it to the police, when you go over there and shit jumps off, he will be justified in his mind in neutralizing the threat you represent to him and his property.

Being a 'peace-loving hippie' isn't playing well in this man's mind and antagonizing him with your presence at his home, in his face will backfire on you. Do nothing unless he comes onto your property again.

[DS1]

110. Run it upside down

let him come screaming into your yard, have the cops on the way as soon as he steps foot on your property.

Instigate the motherfucker into screwing up.

Then burn his house down.

Okay, some actions optional.

[TimMooring]

116. huh?

Before you burn his house down you may won't to learn more about him. He may have lost a son or a daughter in Iraq. To me there's not much difference between the ultra- left and the ultra-right.. they both want to burn your house down. The man may even be a potential vote for a real patriot, John Kerry. Wouldn't you be if you'd lost a love one in the Exxon/halliburton war for Iraq?

[Renew Deal]

127. Disclaimer

Opinions of people on this board is soley their own. Damn...

[TimMooring]

132. Non-Aristotelian system of general semantics

Don't go beyond my meaning. You're a Kerry supporter and enemy of my enemy.

[WhereIsMyFreedom]

163. Sarcasm

I just want to make sure that you understand that probably 95% of the extreme suggestions in this thread are not serious but are either people blowing off steam over a frustrating and hypocritical situation, or are being sarcastic (to the same effect).

[boobooday]

111. You're in BIG trouble -- he's calling the flag cops!

Seriously, what a jerk! I'm sorry you had to deal with THAT.

They are starting to freak -- their world is crumbling. Imagine if you were just beginning to figure out that your party betrayed you? So they direct their anger at us -- the last stage of denial?

http://www.wgoeshome.com

[PfcHammer]

115. size of flag/pocket constitution varies inversely with intelligence

[TimMooring]

118. Heart over Mind

dick "wad" cheney is very intelligent. The flag and our constitution is about heart and love of freedom.

[gate of the sun]

117. in santa fe flags are at half mast all over the place

I don't think anyone gave the word to do so. Iam not talking about homes either. I'm talking about businesses. I guess your neighbor would have a real hard time driving around Santa Fe today.

[onethatcares]

119. how would he feel if you flew it upside down,

the world wide symbol of being in distress? I wear a flag on my hat in the upside down position, many people notice. In response to your problem, I'da told him to get off my property, NOW. Anything beyond would have been referred to the police (is that a joke or what?).

You are right and proper to fly the Flag any which way you deem proper.

He's one of those "they hate our freedoms" folks that just don't get it.

[Only Me]

120. I would avoid this person.

From what I can tell, he started the finger pressing thing after you tried to explain your sincere actions. Which personally, I think was very appropriate and thoughful.

Sounds like to me he didn't really want to know why. I think he had formulated an earlier opinion of you and was looking for
good reason (to him) to confront you. That statement about "not hearing the end of him hippie" comment says alot about his mind set.

Again, I would avoid this person, no telling what disturbed notions run around in a narrow little mind like that. I wouldn't think much good or else he wouldn't have had the gall to come to your home, your space, and treat you like he had some right to do so.

[wellstone dem]

121. I am reminded of

the day after the election in 2002. Paul Wellstone had just died. The usurper had been elected. I was driving through western Minnesota and passed a farm. There, close to the driveway, was a flag at half-mast, upside down. I no longer felt so alone.

[JVS]

122. Tell him to stay off of your property or you'll shoot him

[onethatcares]

124. get ahold of John Prines'

Your flag decal won't get you into heaven anymore

Play it constantly, low in a.m., loud in the p.m. Maybe he'll get the words going thru his head and finally get a clue.

[Rex]

129. It's your property, he can fuck off and die!

Here in south Texas we shoot people for less (unfortunately that's not a joke).

[TheDonkey]

134. This is America. You should be able to do whatever you want w/ your flag

Where excatly do you live? That neighbor of yours sounds like a complete @sshole! I hope he doesn't try to mess with your stuff or anything.

It was very professional how you handled it and you have the right to do whatever you want. Plus, it doesn't seem like you were being out of line anyway (ie burning it on your lawn and chanting).

[molly]

140. I would have called the police and charged him with assault

turn your flag upside down. Explain to him - if he dares come onto your property - that you are indicating the US needs help.

Get yourself a little "no trespassing" sign and put it in your yard.

[JohnOneillsMemory]

142. Flags are the root of much 'evil.' Nationalism is a precursor to murder. n

[Van Helsing]

143. What you should do is take your flag,

turn it upside down, and put it back up. It marks that this country is in distress--which it is. Don't turn it back to normal until Dubya is out of office.

If your neighbor finds a problem with it, and he oversteps his boundaries in your yard, you have every right to call the cops for trespassing or assault (if he touches you).

If I were you, I wouldn't put up with his shit.

I think you're doing the right thing by keeping your flag at half staff. It shows that you truly do care about the country and that you are a patriot. :yourock: :yourock: :yourock:

[TimMooring]

150. Second the Motion

And I salute you for your willingness to fight and die for your convictions regarding display of the flag. If you really want to show your repect for a dead soldier attend the funeral services for one (coming to your town soon). It's going to be a close race in November and we need every vote. It'll be stone throwing time afterwards if we lose.

[Bride of Cthulhu]

146. as an American citizen

you are perfectly within your rights to fly the flag at half mast on your private property

[WinningDoubt]

149. Fly the Canadian, French, Iraq and Palestinian flags

That should put his mind right.

[drfemoe]

151. In Accordance with recognized customs

...In the event of the death of other officials or foreign dignitaries, the flag is to be displayed at half-staff according to Presidential instructions or orders, or in accordance with recognized customs or practices not inconsistent with law. ...

You aren't breaking any *laws* or customs from my POV.

Chimpdumpster and the USPS did though. >>
...In July 2003 this picture of President Bush was circulated across the Internet noting its violation of the Flag Code: "The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature." ...
http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagetiq.html
...
Isn't the American flag stamp in violation of the flag rules?
37¢ stamp
This question has been asked by dozens of visitors to this page. The answer appears to be yes. Section 8e. (see below) reads, "The flag should never be ... used ... in such a manner as to permit it to be easily torn, soiled, or damaged in any way." Section 8g. reads, "The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark ... of any nature." 8i. reads, " should not be printed or otherwise impressed on ... anything that is designed for temporary use and discard." ...

Wonder if your neighbor knows THIS:


7. When the flag is used to cover a casket, it should be so placed that the union is at the head and over the left shoulder. The flag should not be lowered into the grave or allowed to touch the ground.

...
Have you seen those guys in NYC that set up a flag draped casket on the sidewalk in front of the Army recruiting office? They were forced to leave Time Square. Seems the Army owns the whole block. They did move to another location. How 'bout a coffin in the front yard?

[pacifictiger]

160. what does your neighborhood assn. say about

flag flying? Some homeowners assns have really stupidly strict rules and can get the homeowner in trouble. Direct confrontation with a guy like that will only escalate the tension. Change the subject and lighten up - pull down the US flag and put up a cocktail flag or marine code flags indicating international distress (november over charlie.)
http://deepcreekyachtclub.com/WebPage/CODEFLAG.html

[Cascadian]

155. You should have displayed it upside down.

He had no right to come on your property and try to intimidate you like that. Maybe you should add a French or UN Flag out of defiance to him. Calling the ppolice probably would have not solved it. Maybe they probably would side with your friendly neighbor.

Please keep us posted to what happens.


John

[TimMooring]

158. Civil Rights and the flag

Civil rights are a great thing and we should jealously guard everyone of them. Just like condi did for the shrub. I'm not Moses, maybe a dispute over the flag is just what we need. It's not the real issue for me. It's the huge private army operation going on in Iraq that bothers me. It's the U.S. Flag flying on the S.S. Condi Rice oil tanker that bothers me. The flag is an incendiary issue. Turn yours upside down when gwb wins in november.

[DrWeird]

161. IMPORTANT.

Get a video camera. Set it up in your window. I'll bet money he'll try and vandalize you. If you've got video, he'll be up shit creek without a canoe.

[against all enemies]

162. Under the Bush doctrine

You can make up information saying he has weapons and he is a threat to you. Then, a preemptive strike to take him out. "Shock and awe" is the best policy. He sounds like a real American, show him how America does it under Bush.

[roguevalley]

166. Yes you do have the right. F**K your neighbor. You are honoring the

dead, something Bunny Pants hasn't done. By the way,
him intimidating you is assault and tapping you is
battery. You could have had his sorry ass arrested.
Next time he comes near you, tell him.

[goforit]

168. LOL!!!....This is too funny!!!...Perfect episode of the Simpsons!!!

Good job old mate!!!!

But I would install a camera so that if he tresspasses
the property you have the sucker on camera!!!

Just think how much money can be made off these nimwits.
Court cases await!!!

You have to think with a capitalistic point of view!!!

It's all about $$$$$$$$$

[TimMooring]

170. All you would be hippies

It's not that easy.. like where's your music? Janis Joplin? Bob Dylan? You're looking into the wrong end of the video camera. Call the police, nice juicy settlement! jesus h christ.

[Zinfandel]

173. I really don't give a shit much about what people do with their symbols

I don't know if your right about the flag...But I do know the guy is a media distorted crazed republican. An I do know you were right to tell him to get his hands off you and basically fuck-off. As well as right to stand your ground.

"Hippie" Hmm...I would suspect there are many hippies here at DU meaning they care about freedom of speech, concerned very much for our environment & wildlife, who care about the less fortunate, enjoy the finer gifts offered to our five senses and believe in a liberal form of government and equality for all.

That definitely makes me and my friends very proud "Hippies"!!!

[TimMooring]

174. Ok you've got the Simpsons

And maybe South Park. I don't watch Simpsons myself, but love the other show Futurama - it helps me keep my sanity. I think Frye's remark just before he fell into the cryo "Another Lousy millennium" was classic. I was only kidding about hippie, my hair is longer than its ever been right now. But seriously am I wrong about the music? Please enlighten me. I listen to reggae which I love. I have a friend who is introducing some Bob Andy into a formerly all blues band. Today's music seems to fall into one of three categories:
1. My mommie doesn't love me anymore (performed in masks with unintelligible lyrics)
2. bitch something - something bitch
3. here's my left tit

And everybody seems to love it. Just like they persist in loving bush. Somebody
set me straight - please. Ok we've got simpsons and punkvoters.org. I was sorry to hear about their concert being cancelled at ASU. Maybe DU can help?

[Zinfandel]

201. Fucking grow up dude! As usual, you know nothing of what you speak...

AND YOUR THE GUY WHO POSTED...JUST SOME DOPEY SHIT THAT YOU'VE HEARD SOMEWHERE, NEVER EXPERIENCING ANYTHING FOR YOURSELF...YEAH, YOU SAID... "GET IN THE REAL WORLD AND CONFORM, THAT'S WHAT'S DOWN NOW...AND THEN JUST FOLLOW".

AND YOU ALSO HAVE THAT BUMPER STICKER ON YOUR TRUCK THAT READS..."Evionrmentalism is a DISEASE".

YES INDEED YOUR A PROPHET little Tim.

[TimMooring]

217. I'm not the best speller either

But like Dennis Kucinich i try to keep my cool in a debate. My point was that music seems to have a lower level of political content than it did during the other "Vietnam". If you want to displute the point then you'll need to do so more coherently for me to understand. Perhaps its due to a dispersal of talent into new outlets. i don't know, but I think its a point worthy of intelligent discussion. As for the rest: Go tell your mommy.

[newsguyatl]

176. well it's a good thing

you're a "hippy" and don't have a bad temper; because if someone came on MY property talking to me like THAT, i would have knocked his face in. period.

good for you standing up for what you believe while keeping your temper in control... i admire that.

[mmonk]

178. We had flags on our cars

and our flagpoles after 9/11. I took them down after we invaded Iraq. The only flag I have that is somewhat displayed now is one folded that was on my father's casket on the day of his funeral. That flag will remain in honor of all fighting currently and veterans, but I won't fly one again until we as a country return to the concept of democratic republic. That is what my father fought for in Europe (D-Day plus 6, Italy, North Africa, Belgium in the Battle of the Bulge).

[TimMooring]

182. Real Sacrifice

What is so wrong about this war is the treachery being perpetrated on the men and women in our military. They didn't join an Exxon/halliburton army. They didn't volunteer to go on an faux religious crusade in Iraq. Now they're undermanned, ill equiped and surrounded by a very hostile populous. Even the military commanders there are concerned about troop safety. They didn't see 9/11 coming and they're not any better now. That guy Senor seems like a political hack of the ilk that brought down the Challenger and Columbia. Your family has made real sacrifices for our freedom and my hat is off to you. It's so odd how nearly all the people supporting the war has made none. Either financially or in terms of personal loss and grief. Our military is being abused. The unholy collusion of government agencies and mega-corporations has made people deeply skeptical of their government. No wonder they feel inclined to fly their flags upside down. Perhaps its the more accurate orientation given whats in the White House. But say whatever you may, our constitution is giving us one last chance to dump this little shit. That's got to be worth a little respect.

[mmonk]

183. That's what I'm counting on.

And why my display case is still at the front door (and 6 medals).

[Earth_First]

180. *UPDATE*

I telephoned shortly after 5 p.m. after reading the suggestions that I properly document this event. I called the local zone headquarters and explained the situation to a non-emergency dispatcher, to which he was surprisingly sympathetic. He sent an officer who showed up in quite a timely manner and was equally sympathetic to the situation. I filed several complaints against this individual, including battery, harassment, trespassing, and requested an order of protection that will be filed in city court Monday morning. i additionally filed against his wife in trespassing and harassment. The officer specifically suggested after explaining the story that I receive a court ordered order of protection solely based on the "you haven't seen the last of me, hippie" comment.

A little humor to the situation, while I discussed all this with the officer, he and his wife were in the front of their home on their porch enjoying the day when the cop arrived, and yelled out "I was just thinking of calling you sir" to which the cop replied, "no worries sir, based on what the complainant has told me, and I have no reason to suspect he would lie to me over something as petty as a dispute with a flag, I'll be over shortly for documents for you to sign."

To add even more humor to the situation, the jackass must have felt embarrassed that I called him out on the whereabouts, or lack thereof of HIS flag this morning, he now has a flag mounted on his front porch. This family in the entire time I have lived here has NEVER flown a flag under any occasion.

Long story short, everything is well documented and this freeper has been served with an order of protection. I should cease to fly my flag whatsoever now in defiance of this misadministration, that would really chap this guy's ass for sure after all this, however I won't out of respect and honor for our fallen soldiers.

A day in the life of earth_first...

[Sparkly]

184. Good job!

I'm glad to hear you did that. Seems like a smart decision.

I do hope you won't take down your flag, though! The freepers are usurping it as a symbol of our country, and turning it into a symbol of support for the Chimp, it seems to me. Please don't let your neighbor win that one! :)

[skooooo]

185. Good job!

I think you did the right thing. Too bad you have such idiots for neighbors. Now you should go buy a flag bigger than his..lol.. just kidding.

[Room101]

202. Earth_First- I'm very proud of you!

I have run into similar situations with my Bumper poster. This past week the positive responses out numbered the middle fingers two to one. One guy started swearing at me and I quick drawled my pocket Constitution and extended it out the window “Where’s you Constitution?” I swear to god he acted like a deer in headlights. :smoke:

I love it. I run into similar situations at least twice a week but don’t bother posting them. I now carry around an mp3 player with a built in mic. Next time I will post an mp3 of the yet to be experienced freeper confrontation.

Thanks, for sharing! :yourock:

[0rganism]

211. Haha! Nows the time to run up the Gadsden on a second pole!

Oooh, this could get veeery interesting. Keep up the good work!

[JohnLocke]

218. Excellent news!

[Schroman2002]

181. Perhaps

Perhaps your neighbor was a soldier. A lot of people feel very strongly about the flag.

[Mari333]

187. EarthFirst was flying the flag at half staff to honour the dead soldiers

and as the mother of a soldier in Baghdad, I honour EarthFirst for doing so.
thank you , EarthFirst.

[Earth_First]

189. My pleasure Mari...

I am a 6 year Army Reserve veteran myself, so this only seemed the respectful and honorable act to further support the men and women I trained and served with, the 1/142 AVUM Battalion HHD company who I served with is in Tikrit as we speak...

[yardwork]

190. This is what happens when religion is merged with politics.

A lot of the hard right * supporters think of him as more than a president. They have been told by their preachers that * is one step from God. Now that a lot of * mistakes and lies are being revealed, and things are falling apart in Iraq, many of those who saw * as god-president can't handle the loss of their illusion.

They thought that a new world was dawning, one where their narrow ideas of religion and morality would be imposed on everybody else.

Now it's turning out that their spiritual leader has feet of clay.

Some of them are emotionally incapable of handling this. I expect to see reports of violence around the country as more * supporters start to realize what they are losing.

[Fescue4u]

191. I have a split opinion on this.

I DO believe that it is disrespecful to be flying the flag in this manner.

But, this IS a matter of free speech and you are certainly free to do with the flag as you see it, and make any statement, whether verbal or in action (such as flying the flag in this way).

however, this guy was WAY out of line doing the things he did and I would have been livid had he showed up on my doorstep demanding (anything) in the manner that he did.

But...lets be honest..you were flying the flag to make a point...to get a reaction.

Your point was made on this guy, and you got your reaction.

Sometimes we have to becareful what we wish for.

All that said..if it were me. Id keep flying it just to piss this guy off.

[murielm99]

209. A War of Symbols...The sixties revisited.

We had these same fights in the sixties. I remember how angry hardhats and those types would get about war protesters carrying a flag, flying it upside down, or wearing it.

I remember Abbie Hoffman being arrested for wearing a jacket with a flag on the back.

Some people at that time were disrespecting the symbol because of what it had come to represent.

I kind of agree that you should not have been flying it at half staff because it violated flag etiquette TECHNICALLY. But as a matter of free speech, and to make a point, yes, you are right to fly it at half staff.

I do get upset when I see people flying flags from their cars and pickups. This does violate flag etiquette, and their ostentation is hypocritical.

I am not yet uncomfortable flying my flag. It is still mine. They are trying to steal my religion, too. They will not get away with either.

[mmonk]

213. To me the flag

is a flag. As some people use it to express a jingoism like flying them on car windows, it bothers me. It trivializes and politicizes something that stood for a country, not a policy. War is not a football game. People are put in harms way. People die.

[TimMooring]

192. Congrats withheld

I am relieved that your experience with the police was not an unpleasant one and that hopefully the matter is resolved with your neighbor. As far as I'm concerned "Call-the-Cops" is a hollywood film advisory firm. You didn't find out more about your neighbors sensitivity about the flag. I congratulate you for being so proud of the flag that you have a staff to put it on. Not that many do. I find an ostentatious display of the flag on private property somewhat unsettling. It's analogous to the "Last Temptation of Christ" in that its more about the thing and not the principle. Many neighborhoods having cranky old "admirals", "colonels" or "sergeants". You may have missed a chance for a good friendship - the best of which often start on a point of contention.

[TimMooring]

193. Wrong film "The Passion"

Last Temptation was a great film -especially if you kept your eyes closed.

[SarahB]

196. This guy sounds like your garden variety control freak

Besides, the flag is meaningless, but this I mean it is merely a symbol. What gives our country meaning is not symbols, which is what these types don't seem to get. What makes America- America, is the Constitution, which is sadly and slowly being taken apart bit by bit. That is what we really have to fear.

Next time this guy harasses you on YOUR property, call the police.

[bushwakker]

197. I suggest a video camera

if you don't have one - borrow one. You ought to have a record of whatever this piece of shit might do.

[RummyTheDummy]

200. Shoot his ass

You would have been within your rights. Self defense, you know. It's time these people get the message dems aren't all pacifists.

Im kidding of course, but I would have most definately called the police and filed a restraining order. Either that or vandalize his car or something.

[durutti]

205. Man this shit depressed me...

Only in Bush's America... :-(

[Cronus Protagonist]

208. Fly a Gadsden Flag at hafl mast - he can't have an issue with that.

Surely.

http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13

[Q]

210. Sounds like two children fighting over...

...a quarter they found in the street.

[John_H]

215. Thanks for the post. There's something about the flag that

makes even the most deep-cover Freeper trolls go nuts. You've exposed a couple in this thread. Thanks.

[Tactical Progressive]

221. Fly a flag of Bill Clinton's picture right underneath Stars & Stripes

And if you really want to make a flagopomorphically political statement, fly a third flag, with Bush's picture, two feet off the ground with another Stars & Stripes, upside-down, hanging in the dirt right under Bush.

Be prepared for a wife with a shotgun coming over to your house after the husband goes into a seizure.


Seriously though, do the flag whichever way you feel is appropriate and get a Kerry for President lawn-sign to make your political point. That should brighten up anybody's summer.