Is it true that there is not one democratic Arab nation? Why not?

[sspiderjohn]

Is there something about the Arab mindset or history we don't understand, something that might have helped us in this Iraq situation?

[htuttle]

1. Iran used to be one

...before the US engineered Prime Minister Mossadegh's overthrow and installed the Shah.

Coincidentally enough, right before this occurred, Iran's democratic government had decided to nationalize their oil production.

on edit:

DOH! Iran is not Arab -- it's Persian.

I wholeheartedly apologize for the mistake!

[madrchsod]

5. no it`s Aryan!

yes the same folks who brought you the "storefront" "debate" if the Iranians/Persians`s are true aryans..yes it boggles the mind...

[AntiCoup2K4]

29. Tell that to a Neo-Nazi

And watch 'em scratch their stubbly heads in total confusion.

[T Roosevelt]

2. I don't think it's an "Arab" mindset

but more of a religious mindset. The US would cease to be a democracy if the Christian Right took over...we would become a theocracy (which I believe is what they want).

[Bridget Burke]

3. Iran is not an "Arab" nation, but they are Muslim

They have a democracy with problems. The younger people want changes that the religious & military forces don't.

They've had difficulties in execution but quite a few Iranians know what Democracy is & want to improve their lot. An invasion by a neo-colonial power would not help them.

[pinto]

4. Algeria held Presidential elections yesterday.

[JohnLocke]

6. Pakistan used to be before the coup -- they even had a female PM.

[Laughing Mirror]

7. What business is it of ours how other countries run themselves?

If we were a real democracy rather than run by a mob of thieves wanting to grab up everybody's resources and preach our missionary hatred around the world, then we might have respect and then other people might want to emulate us.

[OKNancy]

8. I think Turkey is held up as a model

but it's pretty Westernized.

[JohnLocke]

9. Turkey is a repressive nation.

[KC21304]

10. I was going to say Turkey, and there are some mighty frightening

things going on there too so that doesn't mean a whole lot.

[hel]

13. Turkey is not an Arab Nation

Turks are not Arabs. In fact, Arabs and Turks don't have and never had good relationships throughout history, mostly because Ottoman Empire (which was Turkish) used to rule Arabic lands for centuries until the WWI.

[starroute]

11. Choose one: poverty, colonialism, traditionalism

Aside from the oil money, the Arab nations are bitterly poor. Their agricultural land is badly degraded -- worked out, over-irrigated, messed up by too many wars. Over the last 500 years or so, as the populations of Europe, India, and China exploded, the Arab world remained stagnant. Now its population is exploding as well -- but without the agricultural base to support it.

The Arab countries were ruled by the Ottoman Empire untless less than a century ago, then broken up into fairly arbitrary pieces and parcelled out to France and Britain. They have no histery as coherent nation-states. (The Moslem countries that do have such a history -- Egypt, Turkey, Iran -- are much stronger politically.)

Many of the Arab peoples are locked into a very traditional way of life, where secular, religious, and cultural factors are all interwoven and it becomes impossible to change any one piece without threatening the whole. Other traditional cultures, like India, have been able to accomodate modernism side-by-side with traditionalism, but the Arab nations don't seem to have that sort of flexibility, and no one quite understands why. My best guess is that it may go along with the poverty.

Democracy isn't a mindset -- it's a framework of shared institutions. Modern American corporations are as undemocratic as any Arab nation. Does this mean that Americans lack the mindset for democracy?

[hel]

14. Oil money is the answer

It keeps their system stable; kings or sheiks have too much power, while the common man does not care enough. What you call poverty is the standard lifestyle, and being content with what they have is the mindset of people living in villages in Middle East. That's what I've seen in villages in Southern-Middle Anatolia. If they have a roof over their heads, if they have food, and, God willing, a TV, and everything is what it is ever meant to be: "Kismet".

[sspiderjohn]

12. Thanks for the replies

I'm trying to learn more about the Arab world and this Iraq mess, and I was wondering about our idea to bring democracy to Iraq, were we trying to impose a Western idea on a nation with non-Western values?

[Karenina]

15. FIRST realize

That it was NEVER part of the "plan" to "bring democracy to Iraq." Not for a nanosecond. The U.S. gub'mint has done quite well over the decades assassinating or deposing anyone it felt might threaten its corporate interests in the region.

[WinningDoubt]

16. Because you can't abuse your women and indoctrinate your kids

in a democracy. The Arabs in control can't handle being fair. But hey...they can always blame Israel and the USA for all their woes.

:shrug:

[DrWeird]

18. There's plenty of spousal abuse here in the states.

And our kids are certainly indoctrinated. Just look at the pledge.

But then again we're not a democracy. We're not even a democratically elected republic, just look at Bush.

[WinningDoubt]

19. I can't even begin to compare America to Arab rule

I'm sure most Americans would agree. America is a republic and it is a good thing to keep the peace and eliminate the tyranny of the majority.

[DrWeird]

20. You can't compare the taliban with Iraq.

Iraq treated its women quite well.

You'll remember that Saddam was appointed by the United States.

[Bridget Burke]

21. A Republic to "eliminate the tyranny of the majority" ?

So, you don't think the USA is actually a democracy, either.
And you think that's a good thing?

We can't be allowed to do such things as put the president we voted for into the White House.

[WinningDoubt]

22. You have to follow the rules

The rules say the states elect our Presidents. I respect those rules. If I wanted to allow minorities to be stomped on by large population areas I'd move to the UK or some other ancient government controlled country.

America is the greatest (IMHO) nation on Earth and I will fight to keep it that way. We have rule to prevent anarchy and chaos.

[Karenina]

25. Which flavor Kool-aid was that you drank?

Did it have aspertame and that nassy chemical aftertaste? Was it cold?

[WinningDoubt]

26. It was Liberal Kool-aid

Try it sometime. It's helps keep the government from taking over your life when a majority of wrong try to oppress the few that are right. I'm for the little guy. How about you?

[anakie]

28. why aren't you over in Iraq then?

n/t

[EdGy]

17. the US destroyed every secular nationalist movement in the Arab world

and replaced them with dictators who would do our bidding. The political forces that had the potential for evolving into a more modern democratic form were all snuffed out by the US.

Just read a bit and you'll see the fingerprints of the US all over the place.

[leesa]

23. Many tried to be democracies, but in case you haven't noticed, as soon as

a country sprouts democratic wings, the US trounces them. We HATE democracy because it cuts into corporate profits. Witness Venezuela, yet again. We have done it many, many times. Every time a country tries to elect it's own leadership and tries to keep its resources for its own countryfolk, we provoke a coup and end the democracy.

[brokensymmetry]

24. Are there ANY democratic nations?

Serious question. Are there any truly democratic, one person, one vote nations?

The US is a republic, not a democracy, so we don't count.

[leesa]

30. I don't believe democracy is functional any more than capitalism or

communism. People are simply too greedy for them to function.
We aren't even a republic because our elected officials do what the corporations want and never what their electorate wants. We are a corporation state, like the fuedal empires of old.

Democracu is non-existant and the notion of a Republic is non-existant. My point is is that every time people get the notion of a democracy, it is squashed by the rich corporatists just like it has been here.

[paulk]

27. There are a few, although their idea of "democracy"

is not the same as ours. This webpage is worth checking out, if you're truly interested

http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/w-me/2004/mar/28/032808843.html

another:

http://www.economist.com/World/africa/displayStory.cfm?story_id=2558335

[ConcernedCanuk]

31. FIRST - one has to define Democracy - the US isn't a prime example !

.
.
.

The US is basically 2 megacorporations that flip the board of directors around now and then, depending what the shareholders/taxpayers will put up with.

If boosh has gone too far, ok, the repubs and their friends all made money, so they lose and go fishing or something. OH wait! - they already do that -

hmmm . ..

So, Kerry is in and things start to improve, while the repubs spend billions to see if they can find a monika or something that they can get him discredited for.

and so on.......