The fact that John Kerry hasn't said "No Draft" worries me

[Sandpiper]

Don't misunderstand me. Kerry is definitely getting my vote in November, but he's done nothing to ease my mind regarding the potential return of the draft.

Unless I'm mistaken, he has never stated publicly that there would be no draft under his administration. Furthermore, he has said that an additional 40,000 troops are needed in Iraq. Those troops are going to have to come from somewhere, and JK hasn't elaborated on where they should come from.

I want to trust Kerry, but the skeptic in me can't shake the idea that the reason Kerry hasn't promised "no draft" is because he doesn't want to make a promise that he won't keep.

What are your thoughts?

[Kanary]

1. Said the same thing in the "draft" thread

And, of course, Kerry was defended.

I'm with you on the worries. I think we've been diluted.

Kanary

[The Backlash Cometh]

30. If the information is being withheld, then we're being misled.

On the other hand, what message does that send to every country who hates us if the incoming president makes a campaign promise to not draft soldiers?

Unfortunately, even Clinton was in favor of some kind of draft. The one advantage of having Democrats in office, is that you know you'll be fighting for your country. With Cheney and Bush in office, you don't really know what muliti-national corporation is benefitting.

[hang a left]

38. I respect your opinion but.....

It really goes back to the motivation for going to Iraq in the first place. WMD, then Hussein brutal dictator, to bring freedom and democracy to the Iraqi people, Iraq is alot better off now with Saddam being gone. See all of that is a bunch of bs.

The real reason we are there, and don't think Congress is not aware, it to rape and pilfer and privatize and award reconstruction contracts to American companies that all want a piece of the action. Oh yeah and the black stuff. So you really cannot legitimize the occupation and the US remaining there. What needs to be done is to have a multinational force to quickly assist in standing the country back on its feet and giving them a push and letting them walk on their own, while everyone else butts out. Oh yeah, and give them back everything that has been tied up in contracts and given away to foreigners. That is what is right. You do not need a draft in order to accomplish doing the right thing. The American taxpayer should end up paying for the reconstruction for trashing the place, but beyond that we should apologize and get the hell out.

There is no fighting for our country that needs to take place in Iraq, so additional forces are unnecessary.......that is unless the incoming administration wants to keep the status quo. If that is the case well then, we are basically fucked. Because that will mean we intend on staying on the same foreign policy course as that of the predecesors. Which is what I am most fearful of. If that is the case, truly all is lost not only in Iraq, but here as well.

That is my buckfifty.

[The Backlash Cometh]

42. We're not in disagreement.

For Iraq, I agree with you wholeheartedly. My comments, as to making promises not to instill a draft, is a general statement because we really don't know what to expect in the coming four years. But I agree with you that Iraq can be resolved without drafting more soldiers. Stick a fork in it, it's done.

[Dookus]

2. my thoughts?

[Sandpiper]

7. Thanks Dookus

lol

[aquart]

3. I'm pleased. I hate the volunteer army.

Not one member of Congress has a child or grandchild in this fight?

If we aren't willing to defend ourselves, we shouldn't be an independent nation. As for offensive action, having to face your children might be helpful in this.

[KamaAina]

25. Not entirely true

Not one member of Congress has a child or grandchild in this fight?

Brooks Johnson, son of S.D. Sen. Tim Johnson, served with the 101st Airborne in Iraq.

http://johnson.senate.gov/legispage/iraq03.html

Johnson is a Democrat, of course.

Not one repuke member of Congress has a child or grandchild in this fight -- but why should that surprise anybody?

[Gadave]

39. The Draft is facism

If the government cant convince the people a war is just, they don't deserve soldiers.

A draft is the governments way of telling you in the end you are a pawn to be disposed of at its will.

[quinnox]

4. This has been brought up before

I very much doubt that Kerry would re-institute the draft, and have never heard any news reports to the contrary.

But Charles Rangel, a liberal Democrat from New york, interestingly does want to bring back the draft for various reasons, some of which make sense having to do with rich kids doing their fair share in the armed forces.

Apparently, it is almost always the poor and lower classes who end up fighting in these conflicts.

[Kanary]

8. DU is not the place to voice an honest opinion w/o being trashed

But, if that's what Rangel is seriously about, then I agree with him.

I think getting rid of the draft was a mistake of my generation. It should have been changed to plug up all the loopholes. A one-year service for all is a fine idea, and would be good for some of these rich kids to experience. If they plead conscientious objector, then they can do domestic service.

However, I don't think this is good timing for bringing it back now.

But, I'm glad that Rangel has brought up the issue... I think it really needs to be seriously discussed.

Kanary

[quinnox]

10. I can see where Rangel would have good reasons for it

I doubt it will ever become reality, but I agree it is a good subject to raise for debate. Maybe if the GOP (or Dem) elite's kids were facing service in Iraq, they wouldn't be so quick to start wars.

[Kanary]

20. Thanks, quinnox

Anymore, I expect an attack whenever I post an honest opinion. I appreciate your calm reply.

I don't think it's just the "elite" who would benefit from a little eye-opening.... plenty of middle class kids don't really have an accurate view of the world, and their values show it. Other countries do this, and I don't see why the US can't.

At least, it would put an end to sending only poor kids into battle.

Kanary, who still thinks this probably isn't a good time to bring up this issue

[lastknowngood]

5. He uses the same words "stay the course" "finish what we have

begun" wake up no matter who gets selected the draft is coming and it will be played by the rich just as before. The powers who are controlling the DNC/RNC corporations have a lot of money invested in war and whoever wins will continue this insane crap and expand the war to the rest of the M.E. I'm old and have served my time so I'm safe but if your under 36 and healthy or under 45 and a technical person you fair game for the slaughter.

[Submariner]

6. Kerry and I are homeboys

that joined and got discharged from the Navy at about the same time. BELIEVE ME!....all of us from that era know what the draft did to the country in time of an illegal war.

Kerry won't draft us unless some govt. like China was trying to invade the U.S.

The other 40K troop he mentions are what he would expect from Germany, France, etc., under U.N control. It is my belief that next Jan 20th Kerry would be working to get our people home from Iraq ASAP.

[Dems Will Win]

11. Kerry has repeatedly said he is opposed to the DRAFT

And Submariner is right--Kerry has explained the restructuring and how the additional 40,000 would preclude a DRAFT and make it unnecessary (excepting an invasion from China of course).

[neverborn]

33. Where did Kerry use the word DRAFT

source

[drumwolf]

9. I hear all this talk of a draft, and I'm sorry, but...

...I just can't see it happening ultimately. As soon as the masses of chickenhawks and Moron-Americans realize that it'll be THEIR sons and daughters joining in on the killing and dying overseas, most of them will turn antiwar real fucking quick. I just cannot see a draft being politically viable, or the American general population letting it happen.

[Dems Will Win]

12. You see Drumwolf, it is already happening and they don't even know it

They'll find out too late is what I've been saying.

[Zookeeper]

24. Many of my friends have children of draftable age...

so, I keep bringing up the issue (heck, at this point I'm worried for my 13 year old!). Even when I meet a young man working in a record store or bagging groceries, I casually ask him if he is aware of the real possibility of a draft. The good news is: Nobody wants to fight (or send their children to fight) in Iraq. The bad news is: Most folks haven't heard about the Draft. Some folks have heard something, but haven't taken it seriously. I have printed information from a couple of web sites that I intend to copy and pass around.

http://www.sss.gov/PDFs/NovDec2003-Register.pdf
(Selective Service Mag., check out pages 6 and 7)

http://newsmax.com
(archives: Petition Drive Begun to Fight Military Draft)
This is a Libertarian site and they are apparently pretty worked up about the subject...

http://guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1184960,00.html
(Broken U.S. Troops Face Bigger Enemy At Home)
VERY disturbing article, which, if you read between the lines, makes it clear that we will have to have a draft if we continue military action in Iraq.

I agree with you, Drumwolf, IF the real possibility of a draft is exposed, chickenhawks and head-in-the-sand types will freak. Unfortunately, the media isn't exactly shouting it from the rooftops.

[Kanary]

28. Good idea, zookeeper

"whisper campaign"

There are all kinds of things we could print up on little cards, and leave around in different places.

There's a lot of the drip drip drip we can All do.

Kanary

[Zookeeper]

29. Absolutely, Kanary!

When one of my kids has an appointment (Dr., Orthodontist, whatever) I leave one or two pages of information with the magazines. :evilgrin:

It also helps that I like talking to strangers. ;-)

[Daniela]

13. Kerry

Given John Kerry's recent endorsement of Bush's disgusting "deal" with the war criminal Ariel Sharon, the effect of which is to incite hatred and violence for Americans everywhere, not to mention John Kerry's rather obvious neo-con ideology of killing arabs and stealing their resources, why would you expect anything more from John Kerry?

[Crachet2004]

14. My thoughts, as I have posted before, mirror your own.

I think the GOP does'nt want to initiate a draft, because their children are'nt about to serve. It would be morally indefensible and would cause riots. Period.

No, what I fear is the old 'only Nixon can go to China' BS...Kerry, the decorated vet DOES have the moral authority to bring back the draft-but he is a fool if he does. A one-termer, too. Such a cynical and transparent move by the 'Powers that Be', would probably be the end of the Democrat Party...and these Powers will not like what rises to take it's place.

To me, the democrats in Congress seem to have bought the neocon line...except for Byrd, and a few others. Congress needs to free their minds, and get on the side of the People, before it is too late.

[JVS]

16. "Nixon goes to China" is what I thought too

[JVS]

15. If he says no draft, he has my vote

[K8-EEE]

17. Even I Wouldn't Say "No Draft" In This Situation...

I really wouldn't!! Nobody knows how bad of a situation this will be, or how much it will change, by next January.

I don't blame him for keeping his options open, and this comes from somebody who protested this war out on the street from the beginning and took a lot of SHIT for just saying it would turn out exactly the way it did.

What I WOULD say is: Any draft, NO EXEMPTIONS. You would see your Young Republican crowd oppose the draft as fast as you could say "flip flop."

[mike_c]

19. if you're correct, and Kerry considers conscription an "option..."

...then we're already f*cked. Military adventures have a tendency to expand to fill all of the available options.

[K8-EEE]

21. But How Can You Be In Charge Of A Raging War...

And take it over and say for sure that you won't do this or that. It would sound stupid like, "Whatever we do is better than Saddam" or "we won't raise taxes no matter what the money situation is."

Bottom line: I trust Kerry more with it than Bush, those are our two choices. For either one of them to say absolutely they would or wouldn't, that's not gonna happen. It would be a dumb move.

[mike_c]

22. Kerry will have to decide whether to continue Bush's war...

...or not.

[neverborn]

34. I would stand with the Young Republicans then.

[fujiyama]

46. No Draft for wars of choice !

It's really that simple dammit.

Kerry should rule out the draft for all wars of choice.

I could see a draft being justied if the nation were being invaded (though if the US were invaded that'd tell us something about our military readiness and that it's overextended).

In all honesty though, I don't see Kerry being so stupid as to bring back the draft. It would sink his administration and doom any reelection chances.

[mike_c]

18. I've predicted a "limited" draft during Kerry's honeymoon...

...period, and I still stand by that prediction. Of course I've ordered an edible hat, just in case. Nonetheless, unless Kerry significantly stands down the occupation and "pacification" of Iraq, not to mention dealing with the rest of Bush's foreign policy messes, he'll face the same limitations that Bushco faces, one of which is an already overstretched military with declining enlistment. He's either going to have to disengage, or draft.

[Old and In the Way]

23. General Observation.

Seems to me, given a pResident who is predisposed to using war to further his personal political/economic agenda, a professional army provides the best vehicle to do it.

With an army composed of draftees, our society would be politically less complacent with starting a war for corporate profit.

And I seriously don't see Kerry doing anything to extend our involvement 1 minute longer than necessary....I'm hoping he's at the UN on 1/21 asking the world to forgive our country's 4 year bout of insanity and giving financial/military control of this mess over to the UN.

[Zookeeper]

26. This deserves a...

kick! :kick:

[mountainvue]

27. He did and has said at his

campaign rallies that I have seen on CSPAN. The last time was about a month ago when someone asked him if he planned to reinstate the draft to which he replied "No."

[SarahB]

31. It worries me too

It may happen. I have two friends with a husbands in the guard who are both doing 18 month tours of duty. It's pretty bad out there in regards to remaining manpower from what I've heard.
Ultimately though, with Kerry, he'll do what he has to do to implement an exit strategy and at least he understands the horrors of war. If * gets in again, it'll be a draft for sure, but never ending wars to go along with it.

[revcarol]

51. His "exit strategy" leaves much to be desired.

Those 40,000 troops he wants for Iraq to replace the National Guard and Reserves, where is he going to find them. NO, he wasn't talking about them being U. N. troops. He was taking about increasing the authorized troop strength for the Army PERMANENTLY.

He is just all over the place: increase the Army by 40,000, stay the course in Iraq only try to internationalize it--including internationalizing the contracts so that countries who provide troops would get some of the spoils, ...

He may say that he is not going to do the draft, but I don't think he is going to get an additional 40,000 enlistments on his good looks.(Plus replace all those who didn't re-up.)

[sangha]

32. I'm even more worried about what Bush* HAS SAID

Like "The US is NOT torturing prisoners at Guantanamo"

[Only Me]

35. I am concerned about this as well.

I went to his site and some others with the same concerns asking the same questions. I posted there myself. I had to vent alittle about the real fear I have about loosing my sons over there. You know, if we were invaded, I would do like every other human on this planet.
I would fight like hell for my country, family, neighbors and home.
But for any president send our loved ones to die on foreign soil over something like this is just criminal.

I saw a clip of Rummy's statement today on CNN about the "unexpected turn of events", and the military man(unknown) beside him was asked about the possibility of a draft, and why the extension of so many National Guards to additional 3 months.

I am sure this is a lie of theres, but he said that it did not mean we needed additional people, that we had 2.4 million people to call upon at anytime. Was this their way of skirting the draft issue?

It seems to me if we had that much military, why extended minimally trained reservist time there? Could he really have been referring to 2.4 million available US citizens for draft? Did anybody else catch that statement?

I wished somebody would just be straight up an honest with us about this.

[Sandpiper]

37. There are multiple tiers to the military reserves

My father is retired navy, but is not yet old enough to receive retirement benefits. So, at age 54, he's considered Retired Reserve and could conceivably be mobilized into active duty. Scary, huh?

Here's a link that explains it

http://www.defenselink.mil/ra/secondary/componentsfaq.html

[Only Me]

41. I had no Idea, it was like that...

Yes, it is very scary. So this is where they could potentially get the 2.4 million from. Thank you so much for that link, it was really very informative. I wouldn't have imagine that they could take someone that age.

[LagaLover]

44. Why not?

My husband is a retired USAF officer. He works for a defense contracting firm. Many of the others in the company are retired military and IF recalled to active duty could do much of the desk work in the Pentagon and other HQs that active duty officers are doing now, thereby freeing up those on active duty for "field" work. Sure, they are too old, in most cases, to be in actual combat, but they can sure does those REMF jobs that are needed.

[Mick Knox]

36. Kerry sure sounds like its potentially more of the same..

It will be the same generals in charge. Drafts likely coming either prez IMO. He says he has a plan.. yeah right. Other nations aint coming there no matter who asks.. of that you can be sure.. they still need to be accountable to their citizens.

We're fkd.

[corporatewhore]

40. this 18yrold w/a 21 yrold bro is very very worried

[LagaLover]

45. NO need to be; there will be no draft

It's simply not needed. All the services met there retention and enlistment goals EVEN with the war in Iraq. The only reason we have "only" the number of troops we have today is because of caps on end-strength. If Congress were to reduce the caps on active duty end-strength, the all volunteer force would recruit enough volunteers without even contemplating a draft.

If one wants a draft for "equality" reasons (e.g. Charles Rangel), fine; but we don't need one for "numbers" reasons.

[lebkuchen]

43. Another * ploy?

Make an unimaginable mess of things, the dem candidate is ushered in w/a sigh of relief, can't fix the unimaginable mess, the GOP reenters to "clean things up" and tie up loose ends.

[dusty64]

47. If a draft happens next

year and is not opposed by the Democrats, particularly President Kerry, I swear I will NEVER support the Democratic party again. They will be burying themselves for a generation, a bad idea is a BAD idea. I hope it isn't so.

[NoPasaran]

48. I think a draft is inevitable

Unless we withdraw from Iraq. Yesterday there was discussion that a total of 400,000 troops would be needed to stabilize the situation.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1417286http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1417286
Where are we going to get all these soldiers, especially for a conflict that is likely to drag on for years?

[Alpha Wolf]

49. There can't be a draft...

because it's illegal... right?

[LagaLover]

50. Ahh..No

A draft is perfectly legal, but it won't happen.