When, if ever, is war justified?

[TimMooring]

My view: I feel about war approximately as I do about the death penalty. Opposed with exceptions (my lifetime):

Opposed:
Vietnam
Iraq II

Supported:
Kosovo

Equivocation:
Iraq I: WTF happened?
Somalia: ditto

Afghanistan: Should have been a NATO operation at the time of the destruction of the Budhists stone sculptures. I totally opposed the carpet bombing of bushco.

Riwanda: We should have intervened as part of a UN force but didn't. It's unusual for me to
advocate this kind of intervention - but its wrong to let such a primitive blood-letting
continue.

Knowing that I've probably raised some hackles, I'll make these disclaimers: Wars are
the inevitable result of injustice and oppression. I didn't invent it and its been with
us throughout history. Our country is indulging in the kind of activities and policies
that make wars happen.

There's a song that goes: We don't want no peace, We want civil rights and justice.

Peace w/o justice is oppression

[adamrsilva]

1. I agree with your assessment

Vietnam and Iraq II were the only wars I was against.

[Goldom]

2. War..

was certainly justified, say, in WWII. An enemy rises to power, and tries to take over the world and kill everyone else. THAT is a good reason to go get him. A guy owning oil, that is not.

[progressiveBadger]

3. Scary thing about that...

In this case, the "enemy" is bush, and American's will be judged by his actions. Sadly.

[Catch22Dem]

4. I think you're pretty much right on

For what it's worth, Wes Clark wanted to go into Rawanda to stop the genocide.

[TimMooring]

13. Long time admirer of Wes Clarke

Wes is topflight VP material - meaning he would make an excellent president.
Arkansas is becoming one of my favorite states.

[TexasMexican]

5. my list.

From what you have listed I'm against.
Vietnam (we should have helped the Vietnamese against the French)
Rawanda (glad we didnt get involved)
Somalia

I suppored all the others.

I think Bush Sr. should have gone all the way in Gulf War I. That way atleast we would have had the support of the Iraqi people in overthrowing Saddam, and we proabably would have been able to drag our allies along with us. By now Iraq would have already had time to heal and move on.

Since that didnt happen I support the Gulf War II. I support the war if not necessarily the way its being carried out. I definately think it could be been done alot better.

[mike_c]

6. in self defense, of course....

And I mean real self defense, not "preemptive war" or knee-jerk over-response to a minor event, or a proper response against the wrong target. Afganistan falls into that latter category, IMO. I'm no fan of the Taliban, but we had no reason to "defend" ourselves from them.

After obvious cases of self defense, I think it's difficult to set forth hard and fast rules except that war should always be the option of last resort. I think it should be used ONLY after an INFORMED national debate. I believe this was the intent of the framers of the Constitution. A public relations campaign is not an informed debate! At the very least, I believe that the military should not act except after a congressional declaration of war. Ever. For ANY reason. The executive branch should not be able to use war as an instrument of foreign policy. Ever. There should be NO avenue for simple resolutions giving the president authority to usurp the congressional perogative to express the sense of the nation with regard to going to war.

Obviously, there are times when military engagements cannot wait for an informed debate. Rwanda and Kosovo are good examples, although one might argue that the latter could have been anticipated far enough in advance to frame a national dialog and consensus. However, that's what the United Nations is best suited for, IMO. Each member country should commit a small force to U.N. command for collective commitment to brushfires as needed, by a simple majority vote of the SC or the full membership-- none of the veto powers of the permanent SC members.

[maggrwaggr]

7. what an unprovoked aggressor has attacked you

kinda like Iraq. Meaning, of course, the Iraqis have every right to go to war against us.

Thanks, Bush!

[adamrsilva]

8. We should have gone to Rwanda

and to the Balkans two years before we did. It SHOULD be our policy to stop evils such as genocide in the world. That's why I don't agree with liberals who are pacifists. NOT using military might for the right reasons is as bad as using it for the wrong reasons. I was against the war in Iraq not because I didn't think we should get rid of Hussein (that should have been our policy) but because a) the war on terror was our top priority and b) the reckless, stupid way Bush went about doing it has lead to the situation we have now. However, people who think WW II was the only just war our as bad as neo-cons, in my opinion, and also why I think people seem to trust the conservatives more than liberals on these issues.

[corker]

9. the heart of the matter...

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3995.htm

[Serenades]

10. well

There is no such thing as a "just" war. All wars are unholy and unjust.

There is no reason to commit an act of aggression against another nation or against the citizens of a particular nation, thus the violent response is invalid.

[LandOLincoln]

14. So we were right to stand by and let the Rwandan genocide happen,

and wrong to intervene in Kosovo?

[mmonk]

11. My assessment

In the wars from WWII since

WWII-justified
Korean War-somewhat justified
Bay of Pigs-unjustified
Vietnam-unjustified
Grenada-give me a break
Latin American involvement-unjustified for the most part
Gulf War I-justified
Kosovo-justified
Afghanistan-justified
Iraq conquest-not at all, breaks any assemblance of precedence

[ACK]

12. Three critieria -- no just war -- only necessary ones

1. The nation has been attacked.

2. The imminent threat is there, documented, overwhelming and provable.

3. The UN has decided it is necessary to use force to prevent genocide or prevent an illegal invasion of sovereign nation.

That is it.

Oppossed:

Iraq II
Vietnam

Supported:
Kosovo
Somalia

Ambivalent:
Afghanistan (Ok they were harboring the terrorist but would have preferred a real UN action)
Iraq I (I mean we did free a sovereign nation invaded by another nation -- that was not all bad)


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