How far are we from Armageddon?

[TruthPrevails]

After hearing about Bush’s complete surrender to Sharon’s right wing agenda and the news about Rantissi’s assassination, I think it is time to lay all cards on the table and take a comprehensive look into the whole situation.

For years the US government has tried to maintain at least a semblance of balance in our foreign policy. Bush dissolved all doubts in the minds of the Israeli hawks and gave them a green signal. Result – today’s brazen murder with open hints at more to come.

Have we just ratcheted up the slippery slope leading us all to a fiery ending?

Consider the present scenario:

The US keeps on bombing one city after another in Iraq killing ordinary citizens, hoping that a bigger bomb is all that would take to cower down the entire population. Just one more bomb, just a few more deaths – and victory will be ours. Sadly, as history repeats itself, we end up losing more soldiers, thousands of innocent civilians are slaughtered, and the enemy grows stronger in numbers and unified in their quest for freedom.

In the mean time, Sharon continues with his target killings, each one more bolder with every Palestinian suicide attack.

Bush’s poll numbers keep dropping and he attacks Syria saying that is where Saddam has transferred his biological weapons. This is the last ditch effort to save his presidency.

The more Sharon gets brutal in oppressing the Palestinians, the more he loses support of the International community. The moderates within his own country begin to distance themselves. In a last ditch effort to gain back his strength, he orders a surprise attack on Iran’s nuclear reactor that Russia is helping to build.

Back in the US, the country is bitterly divided on the war. The religious right is firmly behind Israel, while the rest are questioning the reasons for our involvement in this Mid East conflict.

Iran, Iraq, and Syria are now hopping mad. They have joined forces with the Palestinians who are about to tear down the wall. Israel panics, and fires a couple of nuclear missiles towards Mecca and Medina. Hell breaks loose, and Russia launches a single nuclear warhead from one of her nuclear subs and renders the land of Israel a radioactive wasteland for years to come.

The evangelical Christians, having finally got their Armageddon, suddenly develop a conscience. They have no guts to go after the Russians. They call a ceasefire, and the world sighs in relief. Peace comes at last.

Now consider an alternate scenario planned by the thinking population:

We take away our troops for Iraq and hand it over the UN. We make Israel our number one priority and act an honest broker to forge a peace treaty that is fair to both sides. We are the last superpower on the planet that has the leverage to do so to force both sides to come to the negotiating table.

Consider the facts. The US has given over $93 billion in aid to Israel since its creation in 1948. We have been duped into a needless war that has cost us a dear $200 billion. This is $56,346 for Jewish man, woman and child living in Israel. With this kind of capital, we could have simply relocated these 5.2 million unfortunate souls to the US.

We could make them our proud citizens and let them set trail blazing examples in medicine, physics, chemistry, biology, science, joining their family of 5.8 million who already enrich our culture. This gives us a highly talented pool of productive citizens who contribute to our economy and tax base.

The Middle East problem is solved without the loss of any more lives. We take away our puppet dictators from their land, and let them self govern. By eliminating the cause for hate, we win the war on terror.

We kick start our top research institutions to find and develop alternate energy sources.

We dismantle and bring back our US troops from our foreign bases. We cut back on the extraordinary expenditure of our military institution and channel that money to more useful programs like health care and education. We focus and support on our citizens.

We then provide funding for education to the Arab nations. Enlightenment comes through education. In a few generations, education brings democracy from the grassroots.

Peace prevails.

The end result of both scenarios are the same. In the first case peace does come, except that we lose thousands of lives and wipe away a race, while in the alternate scenario, lives are saved, but it dashes the hope for a separate state.

If you were to look beyond race/religion and view the problem with an open mind, which path would you prefer?

Can Armageddon be avoided?

[mr_hat]

1. Look, just watch more TV, OK? Come summer, there'll be re-runs.

[quinnox]

2. Armageddon can't be avoided

Eventually, if a gigantic comet doesn't get us or another world war, the sun is gonna go supernova billions of years from now.

[Ilsa]

3. It makes too much sense. They can't get rich off it, so they'd

rather kill those brown people (including the brown and poor white people serving as cannon fodder in hopes of getting an education) so they can make a buck.

But I wish Bush would try peace.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

4. We must work on alternative energy sources

If we don't, we're looking at more wars as the dwindling oil supplies are fought over by old established countries and newly industrial giants like China.

[TruthPrevails]

10. Oil will last for another 40 years or so

I agree 100%. We have to gear up our research on alternative energy sources.

Oil will last us for another 40 years or so.

Oil is the life blood of western civilization in the form it is practiced today. We are critically dependent on it for our massive transportation network, and modern agriculture that relies heavily on nitrogen based chemical fertilizers and pesticides. They are energy intensive processes.

We are the highest per capita consumers of oil. We burn up 20 million barrels every day. The world consumes 75 million barrels a day.

From the history of recorded civilization to the present day the world has consumed about 860 billion barrels of oil.

We have explored the far reaches of the earth using seismic data to find that we have at most 1000 billion barrels of oil left.

430 billion barrels of oil, or about half the remaining world supply, remains under Iraq. At the current rate of consumption, this oil could satisfy US needs for 59 years. However, our consumption is growing with our population. So a more realistic figure is around 40 years.

After that we are doomed, unless science makes a breakthrough.

Time is running out….

[Onlooker]

5. Armageddon can be avoided

The simple fact that extreme countries like Syria, Libya, and Iran are not entering into the fray suggests they know what is going on. They fear that the US wants to create a bigger war, and won't let that happen. Instead, they'll send people into Iraq to fight in the name of the Iraqi people and try to wear us down. Eventually, they will succeed unless we go berserk (which is a possibility).

We could not win in Vietnam because China was prepared to send as many people as necessary to prolong the war. The same thing will happen in Iraq. We're up against millions of people and, short of nuclear weapons, we don't stand a chance. Eventually, a president, almost certainly not Bush, will realize this and figure out a face-saving way out.

Of course your solution is much better, but it won't happen. The aid we provide allows our allies to buy weapons from American companies. The kind of aid you propose would not be profitable to shareholders. The war machine is a major part of the world economy, and it will take a lot more than peace to dismantle it.

[Minstrel Boy]

6. I think we're closer to midnight than even doomsayers realize.

The US-Israeli aggression in the Middle East will not be allowed to continue indefinitely. There must be a tripwire for other great powers in a region of global importance. And when that wire is tripped, the cost of launching pre-emptive nuclear strikes against US-Israeli interests will outweigh submitting to the New American Century.

I don't know where the tripwire is. I just know there is one. And Bush and Sharon would sooner trigger a nuclear apocalypse than stop short of their mad goals.

I thought of this tonight, while reading a bedtime story to my three-year old son. And I wanted to cry.

[eaprez]

7. The Question is Flawed.

If you mean can an all out war in the middle east be avoided --- yes, but only if the interests of peace trump other interests at work here.
Armagedon - refers to a Biblical prophecy (subject to interpretation) and if one buys into the prophecy - its inevitable no matter what men may do. If your question is do the current events of today reflect that Armegedon is in the near future, or "the end of time"....I think speculation of that sort is a waste of time and energy. I am always very bothered by these far right religious folks who feel that the U.S. has to have certain policies with regard to Israel because of Biblical Prophecy. My question for them --- which I wish someone would ask.....is if God can make heaven, and earth and man in 7 days --- what makes you think he needs your intervention in order to fulfill his prophecy? This is what happens when people try to create God in their own image.

[DoYouEverWonder]

8. It depends upon where you live

If you live in Iraq, yes this is Armageddon.

[sweetheart]

9. avoiding nuclear war

is gonna be hard given our propensity to threaten with it. However
i don't see your "middle east" scenario.

Rather figure this one. Kerry is elected, and is immediately faced
with a 100 billion dollar bill to keep forces in iraq. The nation
can't afford it, so there is a phased withdrawl. The systemic
economic weakness of the bush liars is uncovered, that what looked
like higher GDP statistics, were really calling "offshoring" a
contract, rather than an "import" in company accounts. When the
truth comes out that the GDP has been "fluffed", the credit rating
takes a hit, and there are no buyers for a new issue of government
debt in 2005, or rather it is sold at 50% discount. The investment
grade american government drops below investment grade, and the
whole nation defaults on its debt servicing.

Suddenly, there is a massive cost-cutting exercise to get the
government un-bankrupt, but no cuts are made, and the whole thing
claps out in a mega chapter 7 for the federal government. The
military does not get their paycheques, and just like with the
soviet union collapse, the economy shrinks as the military walks
off a job without pay.

Then, in a weakened position, the US is challenged militarily over
part of the empire abroad, and Guam and Okinawa and diego garcia are
all nuked by a suprise launch from china as it makes a military
grab for taiwan. Rather than start a global nuclear war, we
stand down, and let china alone, nuking some of their military bases
somewhere to achieve political recipricity.

Then the dollar collapse falls radically with 1 dollar == 10 yen and
20 euros. This massive devaluation brings the US public further in
to debt and a global economic meltdown. From this chaos, the world
emerges with many nations all competing for regional power, and
the US is trying to keep civil war from happening between parts of
the military command that are now aligned with various states.

There are a lotta ways to cook a goose. Methinks bankruptcy is
a big part of this armageddon... not war as much as overstretch and
collapse... taking a hint from most fallen empires of the last
century... overstretch, collapse and breakup.

[TruthPrevails]

13. US Economy in shambles

Yes, it is almost certain that Kerry will be our next President barring any foul play by Bush. It is also a fact that he would be shackled with this gigantic deficit and a no-win situation in Iraq.

The possibility of our economy taking a tail spin is very real. We may have to sell our nation to a few financial banks. This means slavery for all us and through our grandchildren.

Russia made this same mistake in Afghanistan. It was only after 10 years and losing close to 500,000 soldiers that she realized that enough is enough. It the mean while, she bled to death. End of a super power.

It is interesting to realize how we dug our graves by not taking proactive steps to ease the Israeli-Palestine conflict. By arming one side to the teeth, we helped create an imbalance where the other side simply has no fear for their lives – they blow themselves up. When you degrade your opponent to that point, you have lost the war.

Without this Israel mess, there would have been no PNAC. Without PNAC there would have been no 9/11 and no Iraq war. Without 9/11 and Iraq, we could have continued on our road to economic recovery paved by the Clinton administration.

I still believe there is time. I hope Kerry makes Israel his first priority. This is the source.
This is the mother of all problems.

[AntiCoup2K4]

11. The scenario in Ezekiel 38/39 seems very likely

First of all, Ezekiel 37 describes God showing the prophet a "valley of dry bones" from which the restoration of Israel will come. The mass graves of Hitler could easily fit that description, and Israel was (re)created as a nation just 3 years after the end of WWII.

The next 2 chapters deal with an invasion of Israel from a coalition of many surrounding countries. Persia (Iran), Libya, and Ethiopia are mentioned. Along with other cryptically named kingdoms such as "Gomer" and "Togarmah". But leading this invasion is a country referred to as "Gog, prince of Meshech". God tells Ezekiel that he will lead this country's army from the "far North" down to Israel where they will take charge of this invasion. Well, if you draw a line "far north" from Israel, guess where it takes you? Even more telling, the Hebrew word Meshech translates into Moscow.

So, an invasion of Israel with Russia leading a pan-Islamic coalition is entirely possible, at least from a prophetic viewpoint. And I'd say that Sharon and Junior have pissed off more than enough people to make it even more likely.

[TruthPrevails]

12. Russia leading a Pan-Islamic coalition

I feel you are absolutely correct in pointing at the possibility of a Pan-Islamic coalition headed by Russia.

Indeed, if you read this article, Russia has already called for an Islamic Union.

Here is an excerpt:

The Only Way to World Peace: An Islamic Union

The situation may be summarized as follows: Israel's aim is to reshape the Middle East in line with its own strategic interests. In order to do this, it needs a "world power." That power is the United States; and Israeli hawks, thanks to their influence there, are trying to wage a militant American strategy against the Islamic world. Although Israel is a small state with a population of only 4.5 million, the plans drawn up by Israeli strategists and their counterparts in the West are directing the world affairs.

What needs to be done in the face of this?


More at http://www.rense.com/general37/behind.htm

[DeepModem Mom]

14. The news today, and Woodward's Bush quotations...

revealing how closely his fundamentalist beliefs are entwined with his policies, are about to convince me that he is purposely driving us toward some kind of Armageddon.

[bobthedrummer]

15. Our human perceptions are being manipulated by mind control

and the three big emotion arousers are sex, politics and religion. I'm a Christian, but since no one except God The Father knows the specific time appointed for His Will to really be done this speculation is for naught but very interesting as sociology.

Moreover, all organized religion's that market Armageddon, Rapture theory, weird evangelical rituals, etc. are part of mind control, (believe that and you are getting better!) synergistically the energies are negative-we see the rising up of fundamentalist zealots from all major religions, Islam, Jewish and Christian eager to particiapte in jihad, a Crusade, or be a soldier in the end times "locust army"...lol, Christ already has the victory, ye fools.

All these forces are doing evil when they kill and destroy and attribute it as holy, or praise The Lord and pass the ammunition, etc.

But the masters of war know that it plays very well in Peoria.

And George W. Bush is known as The War President.:grr:

[ConcernedCanuk]

16. "Praise The Lord and pass the Ammunition" That's GeeDubya in a nutshell!

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[bobthedrummer]

17. He employs mercenaries-would a pathological case do that or just a

tyrant and a criminal?
What about the many documented sickos in the mercenaries that contributed big bucks to campaign funds and got "hired" by BFEE
they are helping Osama bin-Laden's cause for heaven's sake endangering US forces and Americans everywhere-all for THE BIG BUCK$ of BFEE:grr::nuke::argh:

Campaign Contributions of Post-War Contractors (I prefer the term mercenaries, but that's just me, another Scrabble player)
http://www.publicintegrity.org/wow/resources.aspx?act=contrib