I just had a shocking realization

[maggrwaggr]

I posted this on another thread, then realized I wanted to start a thread with it. Here it is:

I think Bushco WANTS the middle east to go up in flames. I think they want Iran to jump into the Iraq quagmire. I think they're deliberately making it happen.

Think about it. This just hit me.

The biggest mistake in dealing with evil people is the assumption that they might actually think the way MOST people do.

I.E. we're all assuming Bushco wants peace in Iraq, peace in the middle east, harmony and television and pickup trucks in every driveway in Arabia.

But let's look at the actions these people have been making.
They seem stupid, but only to us. Look at what PNAC wants.

Look at what Bushco might actually want --

A full scale war in the middle east, a World War II in Arabia, with all the Muslim countries rising up against us ....

Would give them the excuse to simply nuke the entire area, kill all the Muslims, and take it over.

Gosh, could Bushco actually be this evil?

Look what Bush the first did with Kuwait. "Sure, it's none of our business if you invade Kuwait." they told Saddam.

Then he invaded, giving us the excuse. How many people died that time?

Then, 9/11. How many people died from that?

Gave him the excuse to invade Iraq. How many people died from that?

Now he's deliberately stirring up trouble in the middle east.
Supporting Sharon in ways that are "shocking" our Arab allies, attacking Fallujah and massacreing civilians. Attacking Najf, forcing Sistani to declare against us and deliberately causing a full-scale uprising in the middle east.

Goading Iran into attacking Iraq to fight us.

Which would give us an excuse to invade Iran. (Or NUKE THEM since we don't have the troops to INVADE them.)

Think about it.

We need Bushco GONE. Outa there. NOW. We can't wait until the elections.

These people are gonna destroy the world as we know it.

Iraq was just the beginning. 


 

[sangha]

1. Welcome

Now go out there and go get that bastard, John Kerry

[malatesta1137]

2. that's what I like to read!

The same thing with 9/11, Bush wanted it, in fact he's plotting a new 9/11 for the next months as we speak.

[rooboy]

3. How do you drill for oil in a nuclear wasteland??

Nuking the region would ultimately send radioactive clouds over Israel, Europe and God knows where else. That idea won't fly. And Iran is a country of 60 million people - if you thought Iraq was hard work...

The USA has a measure of control over most of the world. It isn't in America's interests to send things spinning out of control ANYWHERE. What's happening now is not the beginning of an American empire, but rather the beginning of the end.

[sangha]

5. It's may not be in US interests, but it is in Bush*'s interest.

I've always been a bit ambivalent about the idea that this was a war for oil. I've leaned more to "It's a war for control" and oil was just a means to an ends. Now I'm beginning to think it was "war for war's sake" or maybe, more accurately "war for war profiteering and political control"

[nolabels]

52. Besides where could they test all their neat little new toys

http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/images/blpropaganda-stopasking.htm

When was the last time you heard of somebody building something because they didn't want to use it? A lot of people like to ask the assumed questions, some off the wall ones might more sense, considering the kind of off the wall stuff we are finding we have to deal with.

Doing weird stuff for control is a Psycho's M.O. Gaining control over such Psycho's only requires thinking way ahead of them, then being crazy like a fox.

The shadow government spent a lot of time, money and blood trying to make the 1.7 billion Muslims the enemy. Some of us know better, it has noting to do religion, but one of control for controls sake. You know they have to have an enemy, it they didn't the whole military industrial complex would collapse for lack of enemies

They are more afraid of peace than anything else it would almost seem.

[drthais]

10. good point

about drilling for oil in a nuclear wasteland....

[maggrwaggr]

16. Hitler was a little overambitious as well

I'm not saying it makes sense. I'm saying it's evil. Evil usually bites off more than it can chew, and it's usually based on delusion.

Bushco shows the signs of being delusional, evil, and overambitious.

[alittlelark]

32. If they decide to go into Karbala, then it will be true

My best friend is Iranian, and she says that if they enter Karbala with forces, that they will have committed a sacrilege which is not redeemable. It is the most holy city in Iran, and part of the Mohammad Mecca pilgrimage.

If it happens, then, yes..we are 'creating' a biblical course to the end times.

[Q]

42. Answer: Bush* & company working on a 'new generation' of nukes...

...for the purpose of 'limited' nuclear warfare. This has been the dream of the Neocons for a very long time: a battlefiend nuke that would leave the spoils of war intact.

[bpilgrim]

4. i agree

everything is going according to their PLAN.

the more chaos and destruction the more reason to continue with their RADICAL POLICY of CHANGING THE WORLD.

rummy said so much in 01 that PROVOKING terrorist activities was part of the PLAN.

i tend to take these RADICALS at their word and i believe they want to take over the WHOLE ME to start and they realize they will need a pretex to keep goin... well if there is terrorism and violence over there they can step in to provide security.

well it certainly is in one of the main components of their evil plan... CHAOS.

:hi:

peace

[dweller]

6. what page of the PNAC playbook are you on?

maybe i need to get the Cliff notes, i can't keep up...

peace,
dp

[alfredo]

13. His foreign policy mirrors his domestic policy.

Create turmoil then capitalize on it. Bush is doing the same thing at home with the never ending recession.

[dweller]

19. oh yes, lies and theft

theft and lies..hand in hand, his left hand always knowing what his right hand is doing.

dp

[Minstrel Boy]

7. Michael Ledeen: "Whenever I hear policymakers talk about

the wonders of 'stability,' I get the heebie-jeebies.

"I think we're going to be obliged to fight a regional war, whether we want to or not. It may turn out to be a war to remake the world."
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/EC18Ak01.html

This isn't just some crazy person. He's the most influential crazy person in Bush's America.

You're right, they don't think like us. But you're wrong: they already have destroyed the world we knew. And the world they're giving bloody birth to is already doomed.

[maggrwaggr]

18. "we must have a suitably glorious objective"

Wow. That's a scary article!

And sadly, it fits right in with what I'm saying.

PNAC is just plain evil.

[Ms. Clio]

36. "every now and then the U.S. needs to throw a shitty little country

up against a wall, and slap it around a little, just to show the rest of the world we mean business."

Nearly an exact quote of that crazy fucker Ledeen.

And, although Perle is usually credited with the quote, Ledeen is also the spewer of the infamous remark about our children's children singing great songs about their Naz-er, Neocon forefathers.

I think you are completely right that the goal is anything but stability. That quote certainly resonates with Bush's latest incoherent but terrifying pronouncements about changing the world.

[Karenina]

38. Haiti anyone?

The black olive in their martini of madness...

[Beam Me Up]

8. Bushco

You may very well be right. These people are not "conservatives." They are not "Republicans." What they want more than anything is a BELIEVABLE REASON to do away with the Constitution altogether. This is an enterprise that has been on-going for some time now. THIS IS WHY I EXPECTED SOMETHING LIKE 9/11 TO OCCUR. This is why I fully anticipate that, sooner or later, there will be another event, bigger, more violent and deadly than 9/11. The shock of it (a nuked city, perhaps) broadcast via media around the world will throw the entire planet into social, political and economic chaos.

THIS IS WHAT THEY WANT.

This will be our future if the American people--Democrats, Republicans, Independants--do not wake up in time to put a stop to it. They want a World War. They want a global conflict. They are driving us toward it as surely as they wake up each morning.

Edit: typo: changed "through" to "throw"

[drthais]

11. no, they're not conservatives

nor are they 'Republicans' only
they are idealogues

they have a plan

and events are playing into it

it is damned scary

I don't think we have the chance to get Bush out
before Novemeber
short of impeachment, which isn't happening with this congress
and would take at least that long anyway

and I am very worried that they're planning on stealing the election
although I have a freind who says
'you can't steal TWO elections!'
well guess what
you probably can

[mike_c]

9. PNAC....

Total war in the Middle East would fit the PNAC agenda nicely.

[Lisa]

12. remember, they are OPPORTUNISTS

They are cunning enough to spin just about anything their way.

No terror attacks -- "see what a good job we're doing protecting you?"
Terror attacks -- "those terrorists and America-hating traitors are undermining our efforts -- give us more money and leeway to clamp down on dissent!"

[Bluebear]

15. Evangelical Christians in ecstasy?

I am reading a lot of the internet message boards in which the Fundys are cheering the great President who is setting events in the Middle East into motion according to the Biblical prophesies, etc., ...they think this is part of their rapture or whatever they want to call it and are all for it!

[smirkymonkey]

14. It's funny you should mention this - I just had

that thought a few days ago. Something about the determination and unwavering certainty of this gang in that they are doing the right thing led me to beleive that perhaps the ultimate goal has more to do with their religious beliefs than material concerns. They really believe in this Armageddon stuff, and I am convinced that they will stop at nothing to make it a reality.

They are so single-minded and intent on "seeing this through" whatever "this" is, that I had a sense that such conviction could only be the product of some maniacal rapture mentality, rather than simply a lust for worldly power and riches. They are almost posessed with the idea of conquering this region. I believe that, to them, this is a war against Islam.

They have already proven time and time again that they are completely insane - it's not such a stretch to imagine that we are being led by a group of religious wackos. It's really beginning to frighten me - hell has no fury like the religiously insane.

[drfemoe]

17. Bread or War

They want war. I have no doubt that most of humanity seeks to live in peace and security. War is related to greed as certainly as peace is to contentment.

[onecitizen]

20. Oh I agree..........

what really scares me is that bush is crazy. They taught us in nursing school a very long time ago, that when a person goes over the edge, it is either sex, money or religion or a combination of any of those things. While some find comfort in the Lord talking to bush, I get so scared I shake.

[maggrwaggr]

21. they're having people like Ann Coulter lay the groundwork for genocide

and they get upset when compared to Hitler.

http://www.muslimnews.co.uk/news/news.php?article=7051
(snip)
Coulter wrote: "Being nice to people is, in fact, one of the incidental tenets of Christianity (as opposed to other religions whose tenets are more along the lines of 'kill everyone who doesn't smell bad and doesn't answer to the name Mohammed'). She also referred to: "(The Prophet) Muhammad's many specific instructions to kill non-believers whenever possible."
(snip)
Coulter has made a number of similarly anti-Muslim comments since the 9/11 terrorist attacks. Immediately following the attacks, she suggested that "we should invade their (Muslim) countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity." Coulter wrote in Worldnetdaily.com: "While Judaism and Christianity begin with the Creation, Islam reveres a God who creates nothing."
(snip)
When asked whether she would recommend "Muslim-free air travel," Coulter said: "This is my idea...I think airlines ought to start advertising: 'We have the most civil rights lawsuits brought against us by Arabs.'" When asked how Muslims would travel, she responded: "They could use flying carpets." (Guardian, 5/17/03) Coulter also referred to Middle Easterners as "camel riding nomads" and said Egyptians have an "aversion to bathing."

By the way, I've heard my fundie nut-case father talk about Islam with the same words:
Islam's, and the Koran's, specific instructions to kill non-believers whenever possible."

[opihimoimoi]

22. I agree, been mentioning this aspect a few times myself.

They are showing def signs of wanting this Holy War.

Think about who controls/influences the Shrub.... its those Fundie guys, dats who.

Bush needs them and they don't really need Bush. They join. They have the influence to pursuade Bush into these kinds of actions. They want the Holy War, Bush gets the oil, we sheep, we get the bills and death.

[maggrwaggr]

23. here's a shining example of how the fundies think of Muslims

http://www.citizensoldier.org/koranone.html

(snip)

TERROR is a pervasive theme in Koran - inflicted both by Allah and by Muslims on those who don't believe. Here are several suras.

Sura 3:151 - aimed at Christians who believe in the Trinity:

"We will put terror into the hearts of the unbelievers. They serve other deities besides God for whom He has revealed no sanction. The fire shall be their home; evil indeed is the dwelling of the evil doers." (Dawood).

"We will cast into the hearts of the unbelievers terror, for that they have associated with God that for which He send down never authority; their lodging shall be the Fire; evil is the lodging of the evildoers." (Arberry)

" We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve because they ascribe unto Allah partners, for which no warrant hath been revealed. Their habitation is the Fire, and hapless the abode of the wrong-doers." (Pickthall)

This is Allah talking here.

(snip)

[bpilgrim]

24. talk/hate radio played a HUGE and UGLY role in RWANDA

ABSTRACT

"RADIO, GENOCIDE AND HUMAN RIGHTS: LESSONS LEARNED FROM CAMBODIA, RWANDA, KOSOVO AND BURUNDI" by Prof. Frank Chalk Department of History and the Montreal Institute for Genocide and Human Rights Studies Montreal, Quebec, Canada

This paper examines the uses of radio since 1992 in inciting and fighting against crimes against humanity. It derives several lessons from these experiences and offers some practical proposals to implement them.

The United Nations Transitional Authority for Cambodia (UNTAC) maximized the use of radio for democratic ends in its management of the run-up to the 1993 elections in Cambodia. The Rwanda génocidaires in 1994 exploited the use of hate radio, reminding us of the effectiveness of radio as an instrument for mobilizing the masses, especially under crisis conditions characterized by mass illiteracy, little access to other credible sources of news, and the first introduction of talk radio. The Kosovo war of 1999 witnessed NATO's first field trials of its information and psychological warfare capacity. Radio Free Europe proved a far more effective instrument than NATO despite the United States' success in destroying some studios of Serb State Television, jamming Serb radio and TV broadcasts, and transmitting Serbian-language propaganda from C-130 Commando Solo aircraft. Burundi's low-intensity ethnic warfare has been combated since 1995 by Studio Ijambo. Despite continuation of the fighting, this initiative, led by Search for Common Ground, an NGO based in Washington, DC, has scored some remarkable successes, breaking the state's monopoly on public information, achieving a mass audience for its broadcasts, and demonstrating the utility of multi-ethnic production teams.

From these experiences we learn that

1) straight news and balanced truthtelling can overcome disinformation (UNTAC Radio);

2) it is necessary to provide a trusted, alternative source of news or to interdict hate messages when hate radio messages are broadcast (Rwanda and Kosovo);

3) humanitarian broadcasting to strengthen civil society and interdict crimes against humanity require a trusted radio presence before the crisis erupts to be effective (Cambodia, Kosovo, and Burundi);

4) it is essential to employ on air personnel without archaic or foreign accents for this work to succeed (Cambodia and Kosovo);
5) the export of modern radio broadcasting equipment to countries violating their human rights treaty obligations should be banned (Rwanda-like situations);

6) a serious-need exists for a U.N. Security Council authorized, rapidly-deployable radio jamming unit (Rwanda);

7) there is no substitute for production teams comprised of members drawn from rival ethnic groups in countries afflicted by extreme ethno-national tensions and violence (Burundi and Kosovo); and

8) soap operas aimed at young listeners provide a vital means of countering hate propaganda (Burundi).

Contact information: Email: [e-mail] Web: http://migs.concordia.ca

peace

[maggrwaggr]

25. "little access to other credible sources of news"

well that pretty much describes your basic American TV-watcher.

It's all starting to fall into place in my mind.

None of it's an accident.

[drfemoe]

51. She is disgusting

Did it ever occur to her that some Arabs are "Christians" too?

Religion is the root of all evil.

[Old and In the Way]

26. If you were complicit in the deaths of 3000 people,

to what extreme would you go to distract and deflect attention? There are lots of reasons for the Iraq War-

Oil
The USD
Bases
Contracts
Religion

And perhaps distraction from the events of 9/11. If you knew that history would judge you guilty of incompetnece or worse for 9/11, perhaps you just say, fuck it, and light the fuse.

[Beam Me Up]

35. LIGHTING THE FUSE!

Nightmare scenario:

The "fuse" was lit on 9/11 but it has yet to reach its powder.

The NEXT event will be at least 100 times more violent and more deadly than 9/11. This event will catalyze not only the US but the world and will "justify" martial law inside the US and all out war in the Middle East.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

27. Welcome to the party!

Yes, Bush & Co. need chaos in the Middle East, absolutely.

There was a thread floating around DU that talked about a govt. plan involving the use of provocation to incite violence so that we could go in an take care of business.

How else could we justify staying in Iraq for the long haul (the permanent bases we are planning there), or moving against other ME countries (as planned) like Syria and Iran? They already used the ol' WMD excuse, so that one is kaput. As blatant as they are, they still need a fig leaf to cover their true intentions and keep the masses ignorant and behind them.

Everything that is happening works perfectly in the scheme of things for Bush & Co. Each event that happens allows Bush et al to go in even heavier -- look what happen in Fallujah. How long before they expand that? "Iran is sending in foreign fighters who suport terrorists --we have to kick their ass!" "Syria is sending weapons to 'terrorists' -- we need to kick their ass!" True? Who knows, who cares. It's a just a damn fig leaf, just and excuse -- just like the WMDs.

And add Sharon in the mix -- who KNOWS he now has the freedom to act however he please with no repercussions from the US -- and we are looking at the ME going up in FLAMES.

I have said it here before -- this situation is a win-win for Bush & Co. and Sharon.

Sharon gets his enemies wiped out by the biggest cop on the block, Cheney gets access to all the lovely oil, and Bush gets to think he's fulfilling his religious "destiny".

The one flaw in this all is that Bush & Co. and Sharon stupidly think that if you hit those "terrorists" with a hammer hard enough and long enough, they'll cry "uncle".

Sorry, Charlie, it AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN.

And in the process, we -- the rest of us sane people -- are fucked.

[opihimoimoi]

28. Yup, cluster fuck in the making

Bush gets his name, Cheney the oil, the fundies access to millions of new Christians, Mil Ind Complx- big bucks, and the Pub Peters who put Bush in there-more big bucks.

[King of New Orleans]

29. Bush himself is just the rube

They tell him Iraqis will throw flowers at us he'll believe it. Tell him that the "Mission's Accomplished" he'll believe it.

The NeoCons that mostly call the shots are fanatics and want most of what you suggest (save for the nuclear bombing--there is oil there you know).

[oceanpoetry]

31. depleted uranium

low-level nuclear weapons are already being used in the form of depleted uranium. It is tragic what is happening in the Middle East...this has got to STOP!

I am afraid that the neo-cons are celebrating the de-stabilization of the region, because it is bringing us closer to the "Rapture". It is frightening.

[jokerman93]

30. I agree with you

Failure is not an option for these PNAC madmen. In order to rebuild the world in their image, the old order will have to be torn down. World War III is just the thing.

Also, a huge conflagration will be interpreted by the Christian Fundies as a Biblical event, thus creating a very dangerous and malleable population.

I agree, these messianic imperialists want it all to go down ugly. Tyranny is their gift to the World.

[Ruby Romaine]

33. Just the fact that bush didn't want 911 investigated tells all!!!!!!!!

just think-3000 killed-
& they spend so much more money, time & resources investigating the Clenis!

better be ready to leave the country when the election is called off in november.

[sce56]

37. Already bought my house down south of the US

Due to Black Box Voting I've lost faith in the system, and if it is impossible to hide the fixed elections then as Tommy Franks said the constitution will not withstand another 911!

<>

[Barbara Ann]

34. I agree.

That's why it is so dangerous for his to gt another term in office

[newyawker99]

44. Hi Barbara Ann!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[corker]

39. huge profits to be made

Eisenhower warned us about the military industrial complex. The presidency is part of that now.. check out this video: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3995.htm

[9215]

40. Welcome to DU corker.

:toast:

IMO that vid of Carlyle and Bush is one of the most damning indictments of these war profiteers there is.

[newyawker99]

45. Hi corker!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[VioletLake]

41. I posted this on my blog yesterday:

The Strategy Behind the Mistakes

Although it appears that we arrived at this unfortunate state of affairs due to a series of hamfisted mistakes, consider for a moment the possibility that everything is going according to plan.

Years before Bush was elected, the neocons devised a comprehensive strategy designed to use America's resources to radically change the world--America included--in a relatively short period of time. The philosophy behind their foreign policy is already common knowledge, but it would be foolish to assume that there's nothing more to their strategy. We're dealing with world-class thinkers and social manipulators, who, I believe, know exactly what they're doing.

At his 4/13/4 press conference, Bush's performance as the global village's idiot was surreal. It's not every day that one gets to see a dummy "acting the part" of idiot.

The audacity of the neocon strategy makes it difficult to unravel, mostly because of the "official" cover it operates under. The legitimacy of the U.S. government--which presumably is the lynchpin of social order--is held hostage for the right to operate with impunity. No questions asked. It follows then that any effort to investigate the truth can be labeled as treason because of the implied threat posed to the stability of American society--especially during times of war. In order to fully realize the freedom to act with impunity, and because its real designs are morally indefensible, the Bush administration is effectively terrorizing the American people into compliance. George Will wrote recently about America's need to establish a "monopoly on violence" in Iraq. In America, the neocons are working hard to establish a monopoly on coercion.

Their strategy works by putting the American people beyond the point of no return, through a series of calculated "mistakes" that are seemingly more painful to correct than further exploit. In the case of Iraq, we're torn between retreating--and risk provoking a wider war in the Middle East, or continue the occupation and risk provoking a wider war in the Middle East. Either way, the neocons win. It doesn't matter to them that their reasons for invading Iraq are morally indefensible, because they're betting that in the end, they'll be the "last ones standing," and history will be theirs to write.

Only if Kerry wins the election will Americans be able to begin correcting the deliberate mistakes of the neoconservatives. Until then, we're stuck with their mad, mad, mad, mad world-bending strategy.

[RunOfTheMillDemocrat]

43. Welcome to Bush reality.

I think you're right.

[newyawker99]

46. Hi RunOfTheMillDemocrat!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[DoYouEverWonder]

47. Welcome to the club

It is not a good feeling to realize that the people who are running our country are the worst sort of evil that mankind has yet to face.

Once you realize that Bu$h & Co not only wanted 9-11 to happen, they did everything they could to let it happen. Then you realize that human life means nothing to them and they care little about anything or anyone except themselves. Everything else is expendable as long as they achieve their goals, which is total control of all the world's resource and not too many pesky humans left around to use them up.

I just hope enough of us evolve fast enough to survive these maniacs.

[SpaceCatMeetsMars]

48. I read this article a couple of weeks ago

that Al Franken kept raving about. It was about the planning and lack of planning for the Iraq war. Part of the article was about how every time they brought some concern up to Rumsfeld, he would say, "You can't predict anything, so stop trying." He didn't want to make any plans. It sounded like he wanted chaos all along. He also has a famous saying - part of his "Rumsfeld Rules" - that people all are always quoting: "When a particular problem is intractable, enlarge it."

I think Bush buys into this:

"William Pfaff, INTERNATIONAL HERALD TRIBUNE - Whatever the intentions, the
immediate result of what Washington is doing is to produce chaos. The
neo-conservatives like to quote the economist Joseph Schumpeter on "creative
destruction," as if this phrase, meant to describe a process in the
development of capitalism, were a general statement of truth, guaranteeing
that destruction produces creation. It does not.

One of the many curious things President George W. Bush is quoted as saying,
this time in Bob Woodward's book, "Bush at War," is that U.S. strategy in
Afghanistan "is to create chaos, to create a vacuum." Out of the chaos and
vacuum, good would come. This echoes the Trotskyist belief in the
constructive effect of "permanent revolution."

It has another resonance as well, an apocalyptic religious one, of interest
as the president is said by some to see his presidency within the context of
the biblical narrative of the end of days. He certainly thinks of the United
States as the vessel of mankind's salvation.

Woodward ends his book with another quotation from the president,
uncomfortably apposite: "We will export death and violence to the four
corners of the Earth in defense of our great nation.""

[maggrwaggr]

49. do you have a link to the whole article? n/t

[SpaceCatMeetsMars]

50. Yes, here it is

http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2004/01/media-preview/fallows.htm

The quote I pulled from the link below, I guess it is some historian's forum, maybe. I had googled that Bush quote from Woodward's first book on him and found it there:

http://lists.econ.utah.edu/pipermail/rad-green/2003-April/008107.html