Bush is not toast!!!!

[Deja Q]

Listen folks, we all thought Dean was to be the nominee.

Then, suddenly and swiftly, something happened overnight and now Kerry's the frontrunner.

Not to forget 2002, we all thought the Dems would win big-time.

Lots of us (well, I was hopeful at best) were utterly arrogant pompous about "We're going to win big, just you see, yee-haw!!!"

Guess what, it didn't happen in 2002.

I don't expect 2004 to be a smooth ride.

Not when repukes are angry at * but will blindly vote for him again anywya. x( :eyes: :grr: :mad: :inhuman: :traitors:

Let's hope we're all around in November. We need every vote we can get...

[NashVegas]

1. "we all thought Dean was to be the nominee. "

Who is "we?"

Even among some of Dean's staunchest DU supporters, there was doubt.

Do you perhaps mean the "we" that is the Beltway press corps?

That "we" thought Gore was going to be elected in 2000.

I think Bush *is* toast in November, and all we — that is, the voters "we" — have to do is remember to show up at the polls to give the people who *really* decide who's going to be President the evidence to support their case.

[Deja Q]

5. So the supporters turned on Dean then?

Selection 2000 is a good point as well. None of "we" expected Kathy and Jebbie to screw with the system and get away with it, not to forget the sheet disgusting partisanship in the part of the nominal "Supreme" Court. x( (Okay, Nader had a role too. His successful wooing of a whopping 1.5% of the voters in Florida clearly shows he's a far bigger threat then the republicans in power who obstructed justice in so many shameful ways...)

[Media_Lies_Daily]

16. Florida wasn't the only state with major voting "irregularities"...

...but it was THE state that the captive mainstream media focused on because of the 25 electoral votes at stake and the fact that Jebbie was on the hotseat to deliver the state to Junior.

If you or anyone else had looked closely at any state in the old South, you would have found major issues involving one or more of:

*the last-minute moving of polling places,

*the blocking by state and local police forces of routes to polling places,

*the closing of polling places with thousands of people still in line to vote, the "disappearance" of thousands of votes,

*and other incidents too numerous to be listed.

And yes...Nader did indeed do his part in helping the GOP in 2000. Not only did he get 3% of the vote nationwide, but he also stated publicly that if he was given a choice between Gore and Junior, he would vote for Junior. He also stated that his sole purpose in the 2000 election was to see that Gore was defeated. And to top it off, his campaign accepted money from GOP donors to run ads in the Pacific Northwest that were very critical of Gore.

And yes...SCOTUS did their part too. They selected Junior, and allowed the NeoCons to take power in the bloodless Coup of December 2000.

[Deja Q]

31. Thanks... And now to change the subject.

Wow, I never looked that far into it, but what you've said is horrendous, to say the very least.

I do recall an attempt to mislead the voting day by people putting up ads that said to vote on (the next day)...

I know Nader had a part in it. But 3% of voters nationwide compared to the big list of evil acts committed by the people you've spoken of? How come everybody chooses Nader, I don't see hundreds of posts reminding us all ov everything you'd said. Nader's an asswipe, but a lot of people act as if it was Nader only. Forgive me, but the fact everybody went after a campaign candidate instead of everybody in charge molesting the system makes them all a gaggle of sad people. Nader's 3% is still nothing of value by comparison.

[SayitAintSo]

2. You are right I fear ....

BushCo* stole one election - don't think he isn't planning to steal another. That is my fear. I don't think he can win by popular vote - the worm is turning - but he certainly has the resources to steal it. Especially the way Tenet is falling on his sword for him with 911 - I don't put anything past these "evil doers".

[aquart]

32. BushCo's plans are not working out.

They had a ton of people on their side last time who want nothing to do with them now.

Bush had Arab-Americans last time. Military votes. Steelworker votes. Fiscal conservatives were on board.

He's alienated Republicans involved in state governments by starving them of funds which have forced them to raise taxes and look bad. He needs those state people to pull off a national vote scam.

2004 is not 2000.

[displacedtexan]

3. If everyone posting on DU worked to get more dems registered...

to vote, trained to observe illegal polling practices, delivered to the polls on election day, and trained to track exit polling in his/her precinct, the republicans would have a damned hard time getting away with cheating AGAIN.

Hope that made sense.

[Deja Q]

7. Hope this makes sense:

What, are you insulting me, or speaking generally?

Get to know me and you'll find out how few friends I have! I wish I had friends. And the few friends I do have already vote Dem so there's no point for me to convince them.

[SayitAintSo]

17. Good point .. $$$$ .Problems in Red states though ....

Local party efforts in red states like mine I fear have few resources to marshal efforts like you are suggesting. I think we need major assistance for organizations like Moveon and others to do voter education on what the democratic party represents both historically and currently.

[NMDemDist2]

21. you're right-- Your local party always needs "observers"

and if you can spare the time work the polls for the county and pretect the votes yourself.

[FreakinDJ]

4. Good Message - Love the logo at the bottom

You are so right

I have been worried about Dems being lulled into a false sense of security in these early numbers. REMEMBER THE OCTOBER SURPRISE

And never forget Poppy Bush was part of the ticket

[SheilaT]

6. You're so right.

I've been saying for months now that any Democrat (and we had several fine potential presidents running) would beat Bush in a free, fair, and honest election. But it's simply naive to assume we'll have a free, fair, and honest election.

Never forget that the people in power got there in a coup, and they (like all who take over by a coup) won't readily relinquish their power. They know how to play the electoral game, to go through with the sham of an honest election. They know how to scrub voters off the rolls who might vote against them. They know how to manipulate news and perception so that people won't vote for their opponent. Or how to encourage third parties so as to split their opposition vote.

And not to mention that nearly half of the potential voters don't even bother.

The best we can hope for is that the corporations will become sufficiently disillusioned about Bush as to pull their support from him. Then Kerry will win.

Not that he's going to change things as needed. He's dangerously close to Bush Lite, but at least he's not (I hope) in the thrall of right-wing fanatics.

[Deja Q]

10. Good point! And I wish I was wrong, I want * to be toast...

As I too have used the phrase "Half the voters don't vote" in the past, it's a good one to remind people with.

Time will reveal all, but many responses to this thread do mention good points on what we all must do. The question is, will we see it at the time, and in time?

[asjr]

8. I still worry about another stolen election, but I have

been doing the only thing I can, which is to "turn" people on to our side. I have turned 2 Repubs and several undecideds simply by pointing out where this administration has failed us. I do have some trouble with the "God" factor but try to point out GW may be a Christian but does not act like one. I do my best and hope for the best.

[Kazak]

9. We must turn out, big!

Aside from that...it's in the bag.

[OneTwentyoNine]

11. Dems need to be in Florida in mass....

They need to make sure that most if not all of those 50,000 people that Jeb Bush,Harris and Frank Borman scrubbed from voting in the 2000 election are back on the voter registration list.

Massive footwork needs to be done to fully INSURE that those disenfranchised by those CROOKS are able to vote in the 04 election.

[Arugula Latte]

29. It's not just Florida, though

I'm sensing they're fixing to steal Ohio.

There will be some distraction planned -- hey, look over there! -- and they will rig it to their favor.

The only way BBV will change is if Pubs fear elections will be rigged against them. That could happen. They'd better realize it and work for paper ballots.

[cosmicdot]

12. you're on the right side of cautious optimism

my fear is that the debacle which was 2000 - theft of the Presidency - and, the general MO of this mal-administration and its complicit Hill members down to state-local politicians and the judicial power they hold ... only reveal 'holes' our system never anticipated ... surely not our Founding Fathers ... who would have known that ChoicePoint/Jeb and Cruella and butterfly ballot Theresa LePore would have sabotaged election day?

my fear that 'we have seen anything yet' is a definite possibility ... anything from martial law preventing elections ... energy grid failure on election day ... massive BBV problems making it impossible to determine 'a winner' ...

with the BFEE ... it's buckle your seatbelts ... it's going to be a bumpy ride

it's going to be drama to the very end ... and, the enabling Media will only help to see to it

[Snellius]

13. Bush also has a rough road ahead

Continuing deterioration in Iraq, the Plame affair, more job loses, an increasingly skeptical press, the splintering of the conservative right, what promises to be an embarassing convention in NYC ...

[JohnOneillsMemory]

26. and they have time to deploy BBV and where are those stolen FBI files

on John Kerry? Plenty of dirty tricks to play...

I think this election depends on the responsible reporting of the TV talking heads and 'real' journalists-
HA HA HA!...ohhhh fuck....

[ikojo]

14. No, in 2002 the Dems couldn't move quickly enough to

prove how SIMILAR they were to the pugs. Jean Carnahan (the late Mel Carnahan's wife who assumed his senate seat) voted to support the IWR. She also didn't question W's right to nominate and appoint the most extreme right-wing judges. She said all presidents should have the right to nominate whomever they wish.

The Dems should have run on economic issuse but did not.

They lost when their message was seen by the voters to be no different than the pugs.

[coloradodem2005]

15. What I think.

I think Bush has one foot in the Grave right now. But the Dems have not sealed the deal by a long shot. Right now, we could win if we keep fighting vigorously and if scandals continue to mount against Bush. But we need not get complacient.

[Killarney]

18. I agree... this is not going to be easy

There are many idiots who will vote for Bush no matter what happens over the next few months.

And there's the Diebold problem and other problems.

This is far from in the bag for us.

We need to work hard! I'm definitely in it for the long haul--financially, volunteering time, etc.

I think we CAN win.

[ikojo]

19. Kevin Phillips was here in St Louis on Thursday and he

said that a Kerry victory is far from a given. He said the Dems are a weak opposition party. They have given into * far too much since he's been in office. He said there is more than enough stuff to go after when it comes to * but they will not because there are also skeletons in the Dem closet.

Pugs are good at staying on message and have INCREDIBLE party discipline.

[skooooo]

28. "INCREDIBLE party discipline?" You've got to be kidding...

They're turning on each other like rats in a cage. I'm not saying that it won't be a tough campaign, but please don't assign behavior to the Republian party that doesn't seem to fit!

[izzie]

20. I do not count Bush out. Lots of American's love the war and Him.

I just hope more do not like war and him.

[TruthIsAll]

22. Bush is losing his core support of lifelong Repubs.

He cannot win an election in which all the votes are counted.
We have won the last three elections, Clinton (twice) and Gore.
There were 127 million Dem vs. 114 million Repub votes.
That's 52.7%.
Minimal Repub defections.

Kerry will do better than that.
Repubs will defect from Bush in large numbers.
The Dems are united and energized as never before.

So how can we lose?
Our only concern is Diebold and BBV. Period.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1429526

[kwolf68]

27. Hell yea

I love the war...and him....It's done wonders for my record sales

Sincerely,
Tony Keith

[Raenelle]

23. Predictive power is based on looking at past trends

It's all we have. Right now, the momentum of events and opinion is against Bush. Follow that momentum in a straight line to November, and Bush loses. That's the reasoning that gives us confidence, and it's utter bullshit for two reasons--(1) the universal law of "shit happens"; and (2) Rove et al. will respond to all this, and as Sun Tzu says the more cornered someone is, the more desperate they become.

[kwolf68]

24. Totally agree

The real brilliance of Republican politics is their ability to hold fledgling factions together. They have fundamentalist right-wing types who really aren’t big into “libertarian economic policies” as so much as they are a theocracy. You have these people voting WITH the Libertarian-Republicans who have a real problem with religious zealotry and erosion of personal freedoms. While MANY Republicans probably identify moreso with the Libertarian philosophy they rarely vote that way.

Then you have the Log Cabin Republicans…a group of Gay people who have stated flat out “we will NOT endorse a Democrat” that expects to go to the polls in favor of Bush in 2004 despite his attack on that community.

And we question WHY they have the House, Senate, Penn Avenue and the judiciary? They are successful in “aligning” forces that are in direct competition with each other. The real test for the Democrats doing the same thing is how many people will vote for Nadar in 2004.

I believe in the long run the Republican Party is in trouble, but right now it’s ruling the entire freaking world.

[John_H]

25. Kerry Apples and Dean Oranges.

Few people I know over who have paid attention to politics for any period of time thought that Dean would "win big" and nobody who paid attention to his record as governor believe his trippi-concocted shtik.

Kerry's record speaks for it self and, more importantly, he's not running away from it.

Lastly, nobody's expecting an easy ride--the repukes will resort to anything to win. But all in all the best comparison is beteen Bush and Dean--a short time ago evertbody said Chimp was unbeatable just like they said about Dean, both candidates run away from their record, and both will lose. Big time.

[swinney]

30. Precinct Pyramid--pyramid--pyramid

Dnc and Kerry must stop feeding tv with so much .

Precinct. 3040 counties in America. ? precincts.

Spend at precinct level. Please. We have done it. One man obsession one year and Democrats won every local office.

5 die hards--5x5=25x5=125x5=625 etc

requires followup. but only for a few weeks.

energize every precinct in America to win big time.

States do not give precincts proper financial support.

A few million would work wonders.

Listen Terry M.and John K. Listen Listen.