It seems those of us who don't wish war for empire

[mmonk]

have no voice on the American political scene with any political power. Is this a correct assessment?

[skooooo]

1. maybe you're going to have to help us get..

...to the point where it's a possibility? Pulling out of Iraq without the UN having something in place would be really irresponsible and leave a power vacuum. We have a certain amount of responsibility over there now, and have to work to get out of it. imo

[Jacobin]

3. Oh, there will be a "power" in Iraq soon enough

as soon as our lilly white asses are kicked out. And its gonna be an Ayatollah. And it won't be anyone who thinks much of America.

Are you saying we have to use the U.N. to impose a government on Iraq that will be friendly to the U.S.?

[skooooo]

5. I'm saying that packing our bags..

..and leaving tomorrow is not a viable answer. IMO you have to look for viable answers and work toward some kind of political solution, if possible. Now, if the whole place goes to shit after we've done that, well then it will go to shit. I don't think we have any right just to pull out as fast as we went in to f*ck it up. I could be wrong...

[Jacobin]

7. I think the alternative is more dead on both sides

The majority obviously cannot abide our presence. No doubt, lots of blood will be spilled as they sort out their leadership.

Smirk reminds me of the joke that starts: "I'm from the government and I'm here to help you".

Somehow, I think our currenty policies are showing how silly our vaunted Western ideas of superiority are .

[MajorFlaw]

8. Leaving right now is a very viable option.

We removed Saddam and his regime and discovered that there are no WMD's. There is no longer any reason to stay. I do not believe that we will be able to impose our "type" of government on Iraqis no matter how long we stay. The reasons given for staying are as flimsy as the reasons given for staying in Vietnam. I have no doubt that if shrub steals another election we will stay there for more than a decade, possibly permanently, or until we have drained the last drop of oil from the ground. Kerry knows better than this. My only question is whether he will publicly say so before the election. Remember 1968: Humphrey was a lot better than Nixon, but he lost because of anti war defections from the party. I don't think Kerry is going to make the same mistake.

[KoKo]

9. No! We removed the odious dictator Saddam who was created by Poppy

and his Devil Spawn finished the job. Iraq is up to the Iraqi people. If they want to have a Civil War then let them. It's their country now, which was the reason for liberation as expressed to us as the reason we Americans gave our tax dollars to fund it.

NOW, it's up to the Iraqi's. If we continue to "Occupy" we are disrupting the "people of Iraq" in making their own decisions and their own connections with their factions. I'd rather see Iraqi's fighting internally for their own freedom with Saddam gone than us being their as their Controlling Dominatrix Mommy of PNAC intent!

Troops out and Iraqi's In...is my new motto.

[Jacobin]

2. IMHO, yes.

Kerry presumably proposes to conquer Iraq in a kinder and gentler way, with "UN Troops" (does ANYone really think other countries are gonna provide them?).

Its a clusterfuck all the way around. CIA spending on the media has worked out quite nicely. The American public is nicely distracted into shouting at each other about shit that doesn't matter (at least not as much as life and death of thousands of people)

[KoKo]

4. It's coming up from the "grassroots" former Dean supports and those who

are still supporting Kucinich (Our OTHER CURRENTLY RUNNING DEMOCRAT) but to answer your post: No! The Media and DLC/DNC have "hung us out there to dry."

But, we are carrying on doing our "own thing." We are the new Democratic Underground (not affliated with this website, btw)

We are the Anti-Endless war to satisfy the "controlling PNAC Faction of the Repug Party and Lieberman Wing of the Dem Party.

We are on our own...but we are making progress. Who will be our leader?
:shrug: Maybe just "Us."

[mmonk]

6. There's a thought

by the people for the people.