Here's why I think it's Treason...

[No2W2004]

Last night, I was challenged to explain how showing the Saudi ambassador the Iraq war plans that were marked TOP SECRET: NOFORN would be treason. After doing a google search on NOFORN, I found a govt. website that spells out what those classifications actually mean:

TOP SECRET information is information which, if disclosed without authorization, could reasonably be expected to cause exceptionally grave damage to the national security.


NOFORN is for intelligence information that may not be passed to foreign nationals.

http://www.usda.gov/da/pdsd/SecurityGuideEmployees/Classification.htm

Now, I know Prince Bandar is Shrub's bestest buddy, but he is still a foregoing national, an ambassador from a country that is known to fund terrorist and fund schools and religious organizations that preach hatred for all things "western".

So wouldn't showing him documentation marked NOFORN, according to the very definition of the classification, be treason?

[mmonk]

1. I don't know

I don't think secret deals between countries which are classified is necessarily treason except where it benefits someone at the expense of the US and its security. It would be interesting to find out.

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. yes, but Lt. Bush can waive that

as he is the CiC

Also PROVING treasn in this coutry is very hard, as we need one of his co-conspirators to come out

Now I agree with you, the man commited treason

[LagaLover]

4. You are correct

The President is one of several Govt officials who can downgrade or declassify, or share data/documents based on his own determination. There are still procedures he needs to follow, and I have no idea if he did so in this case.

[cosmicdot]

17. I take it the bennie of becoming CiC when selected pResident

... gets one automatic Top Secret clearance ...

I wonder how many folks working for defense contractors over the decades got rejected because of something like possession of cocaine, etc., or, in the case of some in this mal-administration, other felony records.

[htuttle]

3. Been wondering about that since I heard about it

However, what I'm not sure of is whether the President has the authority to 'override' a classification like this somehow.

So my question is:

a) Can the chief executive make case-by-case exceptions to a document's classification? Does he have the authority to do that with DoD plans?

b) Would he have to move to have the document declassified (or rather, it's classification reduced) for something like this to be shown to a foreign leader? (and he didn't, btw).

Into this mix, I'm also thinking about the Plame investigation. If his administration can be on the hook for blowing Plame's network's cover, I'd have to think he'd be in trouble for showing Bandar the top secret war plans. But I'm honestly not sure about that.

I can't think of a case where this is known to have happened before. You can be sure that FDR didn't tell Stalin *everything* at Yalta, for example, and that was a situation where the foreign power was actually allied with us.

[Toucano]

5. Thanks for digging into that

I may be being a bit obtuse, but I think you have the answer in your definition as to why it isn't treason.

"TOP SECRET information is information which, if disclosed without authorization, could reasonably be expected to cause exceptionally grave damage to the national security."

I imagine the chief executive has the authority needed to disclose the information as they feel it is required. They certainly aren't required to go to congress.

I'd like to know if they have that authority, and if they do, is it absolute?

I think the more serious charge is the one about diverting congressionally appropriated funds to an unauthorized expense. The constitution is clear about that being the job of congress. I've been researching the supplemental appropriations bills and haven't found the one that really fits. But all the ones regarding Afghanistan clearly and specifically state "Afghanistan", not Centcom, as Condi would like us to believe.

[Peregrine]

10. The President's classification authority is absolute

In the grand scheme of classification authorities, it is a power rooted in the executive and the President is at the top of the heep, Congress and the courts have no authority.

Secondly, please take time to understand what treason is and the only ways a person can be convicted for it. Here is a hint: check the Constitution.

[Catherine Vincent]

6. You should have told the person, whoever you were challeneged by,

to close his eyes and imagine it was Clinton that did that. Then ask him if he still thinks it's not treason.

[indie_voter]

7. I don't think so

Because of this:

"if disclosed without authorization,"

Wouldn't the president have said authorization?

Don't get me wrong, my gut reaction says treason, but legally, I don't think it is.

It is bad judgement(understatement) not only to show the plans to Bandar but to do this before your own SoS sees it.

Sort of OT: I wonder if Powell was the source for this story?

[Toucano]

9. Repubs are assuming Powell is.

If he had any conscience or human dignity, he would have stepped down when Bush told him of the "plan".

If he thought he could do more good by staying aboard, he should have at the very least, not participated in the "selling" of the WMD claim to the public.

[indie_voter]

14. I agree.

I don't understand why these people think loyalty to the president is more important than upholding the Constitution?

[Wickerman]

8. We need to treat it as such

Legal or no. That he had those meetings with head of a foreign state (the one, which incidentally had the most 9-11 hijackers) without input or the knowledge of Powell or the Congress should be enough to make the average citizen so, whoa... we have two people in govt making these kind of life or death decisions without the balance of input from appointed or elected advisors?

Call it treason at least get people to start seeing how reckless this admin truly is.

[Toucano]

11. Don't you think that undermines your credibility?

It makes us seem misinformed if we call it treason when it isn't.

It's exceedingly poor judgement to share military strategy with the ambassador of the country that was home to most of the 9/11 hijackers.

[Wickerman]

18. Not at all

If we call for an investigation of treason then we simply want to find out the facts behind what looks, on the surface, like treason. Personally, I think the President of the US did engage in treasonous activity and would love for an independent panel to confirm or deny my suspiscions. In the meantime, I would like it discussed.

We can only get the responsible powers to investigate if we make the charge.

[Jivenwail]

12. Top Secret is Top Secret

And a TS clearance is not easy to obtain and can be yanked for any reason that jeopardizes one's ability to maintain it. Bad credit, jail time, drugs - and no less than sharing TS material with a foreign government. Look at the yowls this bunch made when trying to say that both O'Neil and Clarke shared "classified" information in their books. In my book, sharing TS information with a foreign government is treason - period. Especially when you haven't even shared it with your fricking Secretary of State!

ITA - ask anyone if it were Clinton who had done this how long it would take to start the impeachement proceedings? I guaran-damn-tee you it would be in full swing by now.

IMPEACH BUSH NOW

[LagaLover]

13. As stated previously

The President is one of several administration officials that can downgrade, declassify, or classified information. He has absolute authority on that. There are other things to nail him on, this is a non-starter.

[Toucano]

15. Not telling Powell is poor judgement

and evidence that Bush only listened to those who would tell him what he wanted to hear.

I think the president is not legally required, however, to get input from the SoS.

[Tellurian]

16. Bush's close relationship with terrorists is enough

"an ambassador from a country that is known to fund terrorist and fund schools and religious organizations that preach hatred for all things "western".

Bush and his family have been collaborating for so many years with the dark side, they're devoid of scruples and are unable to disseminate right from wrong, unless of course, we were to speak of someone else doing the same thing.

The whole administration feels they are above the law yet they don't hesitate to cash their taxpayer funded pay checks and reside in a taxpayer owned house.