How Can Bush be Leading Kerry 51-46??? CNN/USA Today

[heidiho]

What in God's name does it take to knock the American sheeple over the head and knock some sense into them?

[movonne]

1. The worst the news the higher he is in the polls .... something wrong

here.

[rocktop15]

2. No Kidding

This is the exact same thing I thought. I didn't realize America was so dumb and ignorant as to want this jackass in office over Kerry.

[erformc]

9. This poll...

and all others like it (that poll nationally) are useless. The only thing to watch is state polls. Bush could be up because 85% of those from Mississippi supported him, while Kerry could be leading Ohio49-47. And if Kerry wins Ohio Bush is out of a job.

Zogby, who used to be the most accurate out there, does state by state polls, but his predictions in the 2002 Senate races were so bad I don't know if I want to trust him again. This is what he said in a day or so prior to the 2002 midterms. His prediction is on top, actual results on bottom.:

SD Senate- Thune (R) Over Johnson (D) 52-47
SD Senate- Johnson (D) Over Thune (R) 50-49

Pollster John Zogby: "Looks like Pryor triumphs by trouncing Hutchinson among Indpendents. Here's another case where 401k holders voted against the incumbent."

MN Senate- Mondale (D) Over Coleman (R) 51-45
MN Senate- Coleman (R) Over Mondale (D) 50-47
Pollster John Zogby: "Despite the President's best efforts, looks like Mondale holds on."

GA Senate- Cleland (D) Over Chambliss (R) 50-48
GA Senate- Chambliss (R) Over Cleland (D) 53-46

Pollster John Zogby: "A big surprise because this race was on the watch list, then off, then on again. This one is truly too close to call, but more voters think it is time for someone new than feel that Cleland deserves re-election. Here's another race where 401K-holders vote against the incumbent."

CO Senate- Strickland (D) Over Allard (R) 51-46
CO Senate- Allard (R) Over Strickland (D) 51-45

Pollster John Zogby: "Looks to me like Strickland will win this, though it has tightened again. Allard's re-elect numbers where never good and interestingly, while 401K-holders voted solidly Republican in 2000, the two candidates tied among this group - advantage Strickland."

[strategery blunder]

13. It looks like all the polls you cited were within MOE

and therefore almost useless anyway.

[erformc]

15. True, but....

to get the closest 4 races that "wrong" is pretty bad. ARG and Survey USA, two less reputable pollsters got them right, as did, I think Ipsos. The best pollster for state races is Mason-Dixon. Quinnipiac isn't bad either.

[Kadie]

I know why his numbers are high.

The American people are just playing with his head. They are saying they will vote for him in the polls, then they will really vote for Kerry come election day. They are just trying to give him a false sense of security. That's it. That's the ticket. Yeah.

[Blasphemer]

3. Isn't this Gallup?

I was watching CNN in the wee hours of the morning and they were practically salivating over the Gallup poll to be released this afternoon. I don't get worked up over their polls... they are always out of sync with the rest.

[jimshoes]

4. I suspect they only polled repukes

and that's the best they could do. I don't believe these polls at all. * just isn't that popular any more.

[MoonRiver]

21. Exactly.

We've had many discussions on DU about how suspect Gallup is. Plus, they always seen to be proven wrong, and they are always wrong in *'s favor.

[x-g.o.p.er]

46. They called me about 10 min ago...

and I am not a repuke

[sspiderjohn]

5. That's it. I give up. Let them have King George. I don't care anymore.

There's no hope for this country. None. Nada.

[tom_paine]

37. NEVER GIVE UP!

This poll is Soviet Pravda anyway.

Think of George Washington in 1780. History shows the man was despondent and certain that he was going to lose.

The French were training in Rhode Island when they were supposed to be fighting the British, the Army was running out of money and men and on and on and on.

Washington put on a brave face for his troops' morale, but those who knew him closely knew he was in despair.

By the next year, America had won our Liberty, which we would hold for 224+ years, until Dec. 12th, 2000.

So take heart! It's OK to be depressed, but fight through that shit and NEVER GIVE UP!

[x-g.o.p.er]

47. NEVER give in!!

Never give up, never surrender! We WILL prevail

[Libertarialoon]

6. Polls are irrelevant

What matters are electoral counts. Until we get an accurate state-by-state breakdown, I wouldn't put any stock in poll numbers.

[rfkrocks]

7. CNN is the evil Minion of the Bush Administration

What happened to them-Yeech-I have no cable shows left to watch-thank God for DU!!!

[Bluebear]

8. What worries me....

is someone who fought against their gut feelings about voting against Bush will now say "Oh, phew, the CNN poll is out, Bush is still winning, my support for him can continue".

[rfkrocks]

11. Plastic Turkeys-LOL

I don't think I can take anymore of CNN unless I am stone cold drunk

[MoonRiver]

23. Me either.

Candy Crowley was the last straw. Her whoring was so blatantly obvious it was sickening. They really are trying to out faux FAUX.
:puke:

[WillyT]

10. We Are A Nation Of Dolts, Idiots, And Imbeciles ???

Just a thought...

:shrug:

:grr::nuke::mad:

[DemNoir]

12. Panic!

Lets all run though the streets screaming like a bunch of schoolgirls being chased by a pack of wild dogs!

Is there any creature with less fortitude than a DUer?

[tom_paine]

25. F*ck you, pal!

I'd tell you to say that to my face, but that is a vain fantasy never to be fufilled.

So, instead I'll just say:

Fuck you.

And I'll bet the creature that is YOU has the backbone of a jellyfish.

They only way I'd "run though the streets screaming like a bunch of schoolgirls being chased by a pack of wild dogs" is if I was YOU.

[DemNoir]

29. Thanks for proving my point.

That poll just has you soiling yourself doesnt it?

[tom_paine]

35. You don't know me for a second, so don't pretend to.

You know NOTHING of my backbone and resolve.

NOTHING.

You sound like just a little blowhard (w)ussy who gets his rocks off bitchin about DUers supposed weakness.

In fact, I guess if I was a Gutless Chickenhawk, that's what I would think, too.

You ever in the service? I'd be willing to wager not. I was. It's where all the Panickers go, don't you know.

You sure you don't want to PM me to see if we can meet somehwere to talk? I'd LOVE to meet you, sweetheart.

I want you to say everything you just said to my face.

Or are you running like a schoolgirl being chased by a pack of wild dogs?

[Bucky]

41. Tsk, tsk--such language

~*~
..>.
\__/

[tom_paine]

42. Sorry. I've got NO TOLERANCE for Bushevik Freeper Chickenhawks

None.

[sampsonblk]

14. Its the Amalgam thingy

Like Dean said, the party appears not to stand strong for anything. Kerry is campaigning as Bush-lite. Well the voters - at least a majority of them - would prefer the original in that case.

We need a Dem who will not be afraid to say Bush is a liar and this "war" crap is all a sham. Kerry isn't the one. He is campaigning as a weak version of Bush.

[erformc]

20. As much...

as you may be correct there is/was no way on God's green Earth that Howard Dean was going to beat George Bush. He was the REpublicans wet dream candidate. If anything, he showed he couldn't handle the discipline needed to run for Pres. He cracked at the first bit of media pressure.

Did he say what was on his mind? Absolutely. Is that a laudable quality? Yes. But does someone like that get elected President? Not in this day and age.

[sampsonblk]

26. Yeah, I Agree

Dean wasn't going to go the distance.

Kerry is a skilled campaigner. Dean had the right stands and plenty of guts. Clark had the military experience in spades.

If we could have taken the good parts of the three and made one good candidate, we could have kicked Texax-sized ass.

Incidentally, I was never for Dean. I was for Clark.

[erformc]

31. Clark was...

even more of a loony that Dean actually. He had a crazed look in eyes and was clearly out of his element. I really never heard one original idea from him.

Dear God, they guy changed his answer in one day as to whether he would have voted for the Iraq war or not. To me if you don't answer that question right, or even worse, in 2 different ways you don't have what it takes to be the Pres., let alone the Dem. nominee.

And let's be honest, how do you defend going to war in Kosovo, but not in Iraq. Saddam killed many more of his own people and Kurds than Milosovic did. Not saying Slobo wasn't a maniac, but Saddam, WMD's or not, was a lesser version of Stalin and Hitler.

His comments about Kerry "only being a lieutenant" were also bad. You could see the guy was in way, way, over his head.

[sampsonblk]

34. Yes, Clark was a poor campaigner

Can't argue with that. He had political advisors telling him how to answer the questions, and he sucked at it. It looked strained, and sounded even worse at times. Yet he did have such great military experience that no Bush advisor could have beaten him on that issue - only Clark could have beaten himself.

Look at Kerry's military poll numbers. Atrocious. Ditto for Dean.

Add Clark's experience and Dean courage, Kerry would be a mile ahead by now, as he should be.

Bush has taken a terrible beating over the past two months. There is no way this race should still be close. But as Americans die in Iraq, Kerry is out offering tax cuts. WTF????????

[Skittles]

45. you are parrotting the corporate media

and not very well either

[erformc]

49. Dude...

I am not a parrot, despite what you say on this and other posts. The voters decided he wasn't PResidential material. Am I spinning the fact that he said one day he "probably" would have voted for the Iraq war if he were in the Senate, but the next day when the NYT reported that he said he would not have.

The guy just wasn't ready for prime time. Great resume, but it didn't translate into the political arena.

[BillZBubb]

27. Bingo!

After Dean put some spine in the Dems during the primaries, they were taking it to Bush*. Now Kerry, is trying (MISTAKENLY!) to tack way back to the middle-right. He looks weak and indecisive.

Kerry is the one being defined by Bush*. The best Kerry can do is say Bush*s basic strategy is correct, he just hasn't done a good job implementing it. That's a recipe for losing big time--like 2000 and 2002.

Add that to the media which gives Bush* and his minion's every utterance big airplay and glowing reviews.

Even so, the fat lady hasn't sung yet. There's still time to pull this out.

[tom_paine]

16. Believable as Soviet Pravda

EVERYONE LOVES Comrade Stalin, don't you know that?

The only difference: The Busheviks don't dare to go "all the way" and just tell us Bunnypants* ratings are 98%...oike Hitler, Stalin, Marcos, Baby Doc and other Bush-like World Fuhrers.

[strategery blunder]

17. Because CNN and USA Today (more so USA Today) are bu$h*whores

they need the election close enough for those 'overseas absentee ballots' from Iraq, not to mention fudging the numbers a little bit with those Diebold machines...

[Kimber Scott]

18. Link to poll

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/nation/polls/usatodaypolls.htm

[GumboYaYa]

19. Chill People...It's just one poll.

Plus, we are a long way from November right now. If you told me a year ago we would be withing five points of Bush at this point I would have been ecstatic. This poll is clearly an outlier. If this one poll causes so much angst, it will be a long road to November around here.

[Tellurian]

22. And a rigged one at that!

[erformc]

24. What is the ...

source of that statement. As much as I don't want to beleive it please tell me how it was rigged. I'm pretty into poll methodology and if you can show me how it was rigged I'd be interested.

[0007]

28. This is so out of line I don't know where to begin

The Whore Networks and the White House are all one and the same.

They lied, cheat, and steal. Then they want you to love 'em the way junior loves you.

Get a life and get rid of the whole of them all.

[Junkdrawer]

30. Umm...Because the polling scripts were written before the negative news...

came out?

Look, many, many here believe that rigging the election by controlling voting machines is likely. Well, if ALL the polls were greatly against Bush, who would believe the results?

But...

If some polls show Bush ahead and some show Kerry ahead, then winning via Diebold becomes a believable scenario.

[Malva Zebrina]

32. Heh

Best thing to do is to look out for yourself. And your sons and daughters. Teach them what fascism is. TEach them and if necessary illustrate to them, how evil men can murder and kill tens of thousands of innocent people on lies--invade their country, on lies, and how an evil person has successfully manipulated the media, with propaganda and incredibly,

ABSOLUTELY INGREDIBLY

NO ONE is calling him on it. :argh:

NO ONE!

This is absolutely unacceptable.

He is a war criminal. He has committed treason.

He has killed thousands and thousands of innocent, maybe hundreds op thousands of people--he is a baby killer, while all the while attempting to exercise his religion by despising women and their health care in this country by , in imitation of Nicolas Cescesceua, forcing pregnancies on women, and attempting to put them under his thumb with his attack on abortion and his stupid "abstinence" thing.

All the while, a god has told him to do all this killing. That is so pathetic. Is that not incredible to anyone in our shit poor media. A godamm god told him to do all of this!

He is insane.

This is FASCISM

and no one who has any platform or exposure to any public platform or pulpit, seems to care.

If they all can only care about their own wealth and health and power, why should we not?

[Killarney]

33. None of the polls have Kerry with a big lead

so even if you throw this one out, all the others are neck in neck.

It's very frustrating to me that half the country wants four more years.

WHY?
My theories:
1) half of America is stupid
2) talk radio lies
3) foxnews lies
4) they need to get to know Kerry better

[berry]

36. Bill Schneider said

that the fusses about Bush's press conference, and the Woodward book were inside-the-beltway phenomena. "Real" Americans like the way Bush* "means what he says" and "protects" them. UGH. :puke:

So they are trying to defuse the Woodward revelations by just selling the IMAGE more aggressively. And also by insinuating that paying attention to such wonky criticism is something dumb that only elites do.

Another defense (put forward by Joe Scarborough) seems to be to just pretend the book is flattering to Bush*--and hope that no one will bother to read it.

Of course, Powell was out there denying stuff, as Condi did yesterday. So it looks like they are trying anything they can think of. There's some sly putting-down of Woodward, but I don't think they've decided yet how to treat him. This will be interesting.

As for this poll, I allowed my spirits to SINK for a while, but I do think that polls are one of the ways this WH manipulates public opinion. I wonder how the questions were put.... It's impossible to believe that Bush*'s number are going up!

[Mountainman]

38. How many times have I heard Bill Schneider say that.

"Real" Americans like the way Bush* "means what he says" and "protects" them.



He is like the weathermen in San Diego. Same weather different day. "Another beautiful day in America's finest city." That is another load of bull shit also.

[Thrill]

39. Their Poll is so

out of whack. How can there polls be so different from Newsweek and others?

[i_c_a_White_Ghost]

48. It's all Image

bush has it, kerry don't

If it were about substance kerry would win.

[Stuckinthebush]

40. Bad polling techniques

Polls are just snapshots of the best representation of the population that can be contacted at one point in time.

Look at all of the polls together and see what the picture tells you.

They tell me that Bush has a serious problem and Kerry is going to win this thing. Most polls show Kerry ahead or within the MOE. That is a bad place for Bush to have Kerry the far ahead of the election. Bush is the incumbent and should be ahead in every poll.

Don't sweat it yet.

[Snellius]

43. There may be some rally-'round-the-flag effect

in response to supporting our soldiers in Iraq. American arrogance tries to make up for a defensive inferiority complex, especially with regard to Europeans and those that Bush likes to call the "elites." Americans have always been suckers for any politician that reassures us that we are "the greatest nation on earth", the chosen crusaders for truth, justice, and the American way. Even when the truth contradicts it, we love to believe these glorious lies. We don't want to face the fact that we are losing the war against al Qaeda, just as we are losing the war in Iraq.

[Selwynn]

44. I keep telling you that Bush is far from toast but no one listens.