Go to ABC.com, read it, weep and see how much ground we have lost

[BabsSong]

We need to stop bullshitting ourselves. I've said for weeks that we are just marking time while Bush is making time. We've come down in all areas and only lead in one. I know...oh, don't listen to polls!! Except it's the trend all are trying to show us but we would rather scream at polls rather than admit that this goddamn campaign died about dessert time at the Unity Dinner. It's nice to raise money....we'll need six times what Bush has to undo the damage of waiting in the wings for "just the right time". And we can't fight what else is going on in the world. You think that Iraq is Bush's Waterloo??---naw, it makes Americans want to kill more of those brown bastards (oppps--and to think just yesterday we were lying to ourselves that we loved them so much we wanted to die to bring them democracy!!--we are an ugly nation; thus, don't expect what you think "shocks" to do anything but make them more bloodthirsty). So go to ABC.com and when you get to the news area there will be these headlines that flash on and off. When you get to the "Polls: Bush Hanging Tough" flash-on, hit it and go to the break down and look square in the eye how we have lost now on every point except healthcare where we have a small lead. We are not handling this well and "tomorrow" could become "too late". Nothing is going to "bring this guy down"--has that finally sunk into your head. Thus, we have to elevate Kerry to the level of Almighty God and that, quite frankly, doesn't look like it's going to happen. Let them have 4 more years of Bush and let them suffer.

[ParanoidPat]

1. Same old 'song'.....

.....:evilgrin:

Nothing to see here folks! Move along. ;-)

[Nimble_Idea]

2. nope sorry

Shrub is not winning the Election

I'm not listening to Corporate Media, you can if you want

but I would advise against it

[Ardee]

3. Some have been trying to tell democrats of this

for a longsih time. Many, and among them the dreaded anti christ Ralph Nader have been furious at the way democrats are displaying such cowardice and failure to separate themselves from Bush.

It is almost funny , but of course it isnt, that ,with Bush making blunder after blunder, ,telling one egregious lie after the other, he is actually leading in the polls. While it is very, very early it may already be too late.

[Democat]

Where are our elected Democrats slamming Bush every day?

The right wing has people out in the news trashing Kerry every day, without ever taking a rest.

Our side doesn't seem to have many people out attacking Bush. When there is a major attack on Bush in the media, it usually comes from Kerry himself. Where are Kerry's attack surrogates? Bush has literally thousands of them. Kerry has a few, of which none are "on" every day.

Our side is so full of wimpy cowards, the same idiots who kissed Bush's ass for the last two years, that it's hard to believe they are going to be able to put on a good fight in the months leading up to the election.

Does anyone think Tom Daschle is going to give Kerry the kind of support and cover that Delay or Frist give Bush? Never in a million years.

[blm]

4. Gee, Babs, how many doom and gloom threads are planned for this month?

I think this is either plain silly or sinister. Maybe both.

[CatWoman]

7. it does get pretty old

[BabsSong]

12. Stop bullshitting yourselves---this isn't about Bush v Kerry in the polls

...fuck those numbers. It's about how much ground we have lost on all those issues that people just a few months ago gravitated to the Dems on. Do you think they are all just waiting for "futher word"...NO.....they are hearing squat. And just like the poster before you said "where the fuck are the other Dems blasting Bush daily when the repukes are bashing Kerry daily??". We have gone silent. So stop thinking a la Gore era when we just knew that Gore was going to trounce Bush like a zillion to one. This campaign is going no where. For Christ's sake we have had bad news for Bush for several weeks straight and we can't even pull even. What happens when the bad news fades?? We just are not doing the job. I've watched this shit in 2000 and in the "oh, get a life, everythings going to be wonderful for us" in 2002. We have a handful of days to take America and we are not. Are you waiting, gasp, for another bombshell to be dropped on Bush----if it does, can't you understand that that just means the people will rally behind him more.

[blm]

18. So you say....over and over again.

I trust my instincts. They say you're wrong.

[belle]

52. What would you like for us to do?

[sangh0]

66. "this isn't about Bush v Kerry in the polls" Yeah, right

I've said for weeks that we are just marking time while Bush is making time. We've come down in all areas and only lead in one. I know...oh, don't listen to polls!!

Nope, it's not about the polls

[Exgeneral]

14. yes, I prefer " LA LA LA LA don't say bad stuff about the campaign"

THAT is a surefire strategy for success.
Of course, it's brought you this far..........

[blm]

19. Nope. There is NOTHING constructive to doom and gloom posts.

If you think there is, that's your deal. Enjoy it.

[KoKo]

47. OFGS are you advocating "censoring" posts? What are you saying? Only

post good things on a "Discussion Board?" I don't believe you really mean that blm. I remember you involved in good long posts in the "old days" on DU where you were involved in research exposing the Chimp.

What's happened here? Was it another blm? :shrug:

[0007]

54. What a crock!

[blm]

55. Not advocating censorship at all. I am pointing out that

these posts that only look so narrowly at ONE poll and predicting gloom are not constructive.

If this was the first post like this, then there would be no problem, just a wee bit of hysteria. However, there is a longer list of posts that all set a tone suggesting Dems give up for 2004.

You may not be bothered by it but I find it unnecessarily destructive, especially on a Democratic message board with so many new activists that might find it discouraging.

[Habibi]

5. Eventually, every tyrant falls.

If you're feeling defeated, I'm sorry, but please get out of my way.

[aquart]

6. Tokyo Rose used to do this kind of thing. So did Chicken Little.

Where are they now?

[ParanoidPat]

8. LOL!

:evilgrin: :thumbsup:

[The Blue Knight]

11. I'll say the same thing I always say about these polls...no matter what...

The ONLY poll that counts is in November.

Polls will have their peaks and troughs for Kerry. Hell, a few weeks ago he was up by 12%, and everybody was dancing on GWB's grave.

We'll see what happens, but I'm confident that Kerry will pull it out.

[KoKo]

46. Do you really know who Tokyo Rose was! LOL's trolling maybe?

[On the Road]

9. To Tell You Truth, I Simply Don't Know

I agree with your point that polls are better at showing trends, and for some reason Bush has bounced a bit over the last week. Part of it may simply be more exposure. Silence is death in a presidential campaign.

I also agree that we live in a relatively callous and bloodthirsty county that somehow manages to convince itself is caring and idealistic. When you deal with that type of denial, it's rough going.

For better or worse, it's the economy that lose Bush the election, or regain it things improve.

There's a lot of good news, but don't despair that it hasn't caught up with him yet. Sometimes it just has to reach a critical mass, and then BOOM! I would rather be in Kerry's position than Bush's.

[i_c_a_White_Ghost]

10. I figure we have a long road to travel

this country seems intend on keeping the crooks in charge.

It's heartbreaking but I've given up figuring why.

[Ardee]

48. No LS never let yourself believe that

It is not the country that is intent upon keeping Bush in charge, it is the monied interests within the country, it is a huge portion of the media (and as ownership thereof shrinks it will be a larger and larger proportion )and ,sadly, it would seem that it is the leadership of BOTH parties that wishes Bush retained.

I firmly believe that the vast majority of American citizens would, if they were given the truth, vote Bush out forthwith. I happen to have great faith in my fellow Americans........But ,alas, they are NOT being told the truth, not because of a media plot , however real that plot may be, but because, for as yet undetermined reasons, the democratic party has displayed abysmal cowardice for three full years.

[Qutzupalotl]

13. It's okay, Jon Stewart is back on tonight.

Let the downward slide begin anew...

[BabsSong]

15. Have even ONE of you gone to that website and read the breakdown??

All you do is glue on da' Bush vs. Kerry numbers. I'm talking go look at how we have lost point by point by point. That's where the story is. And even in those places where the people express growing concern, like Iraq, they turn around and put their trust in GWB. We can wave our hankies, fake the vapors and say "too early" or we can see that we are losing point by point and that someone in this DNC has to wake up. I wonder how many conceded '04 to Bush long before any of our candidates ever took the stage?

[blm]

20. Go read the Zogby and Newsweek polls. Enjoy.

.

[seabeyond]

50. my husband is a statistic major

shrugs and says they fix numbers, can make them say anything

i know can create whatever result one is looking for

bushco's have lied about everything

republicans and independents and democrats that voted for bush are coming to democrat

so i ask you

why are you so adament in believing the numbers. i think everything points to the opposite. everything but media and bushco. i dont like to play the pawn game

i too wonder about all these dooms day crap, when i am seeing so much being accomplished

[onecitizen]

16. sheeeshhhh

now I'm embarrassed.

[doni_georgia]

17. Oh no, everyone go hide . . . Seriously though

it's APRIL!!! Normally at this time of year the campaign hasn't even begun. A lot will happen before November. If you remember back to 1988, Bush I was WAY up in the polls in April. America was high off it's "victory" in Iraq. Clinton was dead politically. We will see a lot of fluctuating in the polls. A large number of Americans will not make up their minds until the fall. Some will not make up their minds until the step into the voting booth.

That said, MOST polls show either Kerry winning in a two-way race, or a statistical tie between Kerry and Bush when Nader is added to the mix. We are still technically in the primary season. A lot of the people saying they will vote for Nader now (because they were pissed their guy didn't get the Dem nod) will later calm down and vote for Kerry. People do realize that Nader is the reason we have Bush now. Just chill out and give it time.

One thing we don't need is to come out firing both barrells in negative campaign ads this early. They would backfire - believe me.

[blm]

35. But a few here are suggesting we give up.

Gee....I wonder why?

[Ardee]

49. Do you enjoy misrepresenting the opinions of others?

Some folks, and I make no comment that you may be one of them, brook no differing opinions, refuse to admit that there are many ways to look at things and treat those holding ideas and theories that differ from their own respond with crap instead of intellect.

I have seen noone suggesting that a white flag be run up yet you insist on posting such tales. Why would that be I wonder? I believe that criticisms of campaign strategies are certainly in order, a pity noone did so to Al Gore in time for him to alter his crappy strategies. I applaud the continuance of the Kucinich campaign which might possibly cause Kerry to swing back to where his support really lies.I also support the rights of all posters to opine away, to debate each and every issue with zeal and honesty.

Those who do not do so are just as in need of a class on the meaning of democracy as are the Iraqis, as for that matter, are the many administration figures who havent a clue either......

[blm]

56. It's not the first post suggesting we give up & let Bush have 4 more yrs.

I don't make this stuff up, I read it here at DU.

"Nothing is going to "bring this guy down"--has that finally sunk into your head. Thus, we have to elevate Kerry to the level of Almighty God and that, quite frankly, doesn't look like it's going to happen. Let them have 4 more years of Bush and let them suffer."

There is also the evidence that not ONE person who posted a doom and gloom thread replied to ANY thread posted with poll results from 3 other sources that had Kerry ahead of Bush. Why would someone so concerned with polls that they start a thread on it, not bother to post on the positive poll threads?

There is an inconsistency there that I find bothersome.

[Touchdown]

44. Poppy won 1988. Dukakis lost.

Clinton didn't run until 1992. And as much as I believe Kerry will make a great President, he's no powerful orator like Bill Clinton was.

[AP]

21. With the primaries over, the Dems are going to lose ground. Bush has the

floor now until the campaign starts in earnest.

You'll see the same ebb and flow during the conventions.

Don't worry. In the last couple weeks, that's when the polls really matter.

[Snellius]

22. In a way it doesn't matter any more. We know where we stand.

We are united. We know what is right. And every decently intelligent, honest, and truly patriotic American knows it to. Bush can never really win this election, even if he gets the most votes. He is a shame and embarrassment and joke of American history. If he cons or buys or bullshits his way back into office, the real battle will only just begin.

[Padraig18]

23. The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

:eyes:

I am thoroughly SICK of these 'We're DOOMED!' (Greek chorus echoes 'We're doomed!') threads. It's ONE FUCKING POLL!

Get a GRIP! *slap, slap, slap*

[BabsSong]

24. I'm looking at those categories where we've lost all ground--why the hell

should we be like this in areas like the economy, etc?? It's one thing if Americans are responding to the blood in Iraq and saying "stand behind our presseeeedent and kill the bastards"; but why the hell has he wiped out our lead in all those social areas???? That needs to be a concern of ours and we have to stop thinking like Scarlette O'Hara that everything will just go away and we can "think about that tomorrow".

[blm]

25. Go study the Zogby and Newsweek polls. Enjoy.

.

[Padraig18]

27. It's *one* fucking POLL!

If this is the state a single poll 28 weeks before the GE puts you in, your heart will give out long before November. Get a GRIP--- Bush just spent $45 millions on advertising; did you think it would have NO effect? :eyes:

[NMDemDist2]

63. Babs-- when was the last time you called your congressman,

worked a phone bank, or walked a neighorhood? If you are doing any of the last two you know that we're doing fine.

Stop with the gloom and doom geeesh!

[Jacobin]

26. Iowa picked Kerry in a panic and FUCKED UP big time

"Electable" my ass.

If we can't beat an idiot like George Fucking Bush* we deserve losing.

[AP]

28. No event which leaves Bush in office is 'deserved' by the American people.

Let's not blame the victims.

[Snellius]

29. Oh, Give it a rest.

Kerry's a fine candidate.

[KoKo]

32. Are you serious Jacobin? I thought you were a DU'er who saw no wrong

in Kerry. I see some "wrong" in him and am really angry that we were "frontloaded" into Iowa and NH and then the Campaigns died..even though Kucinich is still running but ignored.

Figured you were with the DLC... This post doesn't sound like you are DLC all the way. :shrug:

[blm]

40. I only support DLCers who maintained liberal voting records

while pulling the DLC away from the influence of the committed centrists. I have a real problem with those who governed as centrists their entire careers trying to pull the party further to the right.

BTW...Jacobin is a staunch liberal as far as I have seen, and has been a Kerry skeptic for quite awhile.

[KoKo]

42. Thanks for head up on this blm. n/t

[sadiesworld]

30. Look on the bright side:

-Bev Harris and others are making progress on the paperless voting issue. Big news coming.
-Michael Moore is putting the finishing touches on "Farenheit 9/11".
-Joe Wilson's book is due out soon and involves a fairly simple(and damaging)issue for people to grasp.
-The monkey has spent $50 million and is, at best, breaking even in the polls.
-Air America is off to a good start.
-The debates will be a rout for Kerry...the monkey seems more brain damaged than he was in 2000 and IMHO Kerry will do better than Gore.
-Kerry still has his VP announcement to make and ANYONE will look good compared to Cheney.

And a couple of (possibly unrealistic) hopes:
-The 9/11 report could be something less than a total whitewash.
-Nader could drop out and endorse Kerry, or maybe his supporters will get a fucking clue.

I, for one, am cautiously optimistic at this point. :7

[KoKo]

31. Be careful Babs, because there are folks here who don't want to believe

that we have so much work to do, to rebuild our party. They want to believe that the "Media" and the "booksellers" will save our butts. It's only "Us" who will save our butts...:-(

[sadiesworld]

33. Gee, could I be one of those "folks"?

Silly me. To think I was stupid enough to take the post at face value, instead of realizing that it isn't about Kerry beating Bush at all. Kucinich or Dean, perhaps?

[Carolina]

36. and republicans

like Richard Clarke, Kevin Phillips, John Dean, Paul O'Neill, Bob Woodward and others to come, hopefully.

Tutu Wimpocrats have been worthless since 11/7/2000!

[PA-DEM]

34. Poll is of adults

As an Coulter said during the 2000 elections, who cares what adults think, 54% of them dont vote. It's likely voters that matter. This is par for this poll they always have Bush's numbers higher.

Methodology

This ABCNEWS/Washington Post poll was conducted by telephone April 15-18, among a random national sample of 1,201 adults. The results have a three-point error margin. Sampling, data collection and tabulation were done by TNS of Horsham, Pa.

[Skittles]

37. "let them have four more years of Bush"

are you f***ing crazy? No thanks, I will fight to the bitter end.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[KoKo]

43. Lots of posts have folks "trolling" tonight it seems. Hello there! n/t

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[librechik]

41. I'll trade you that poll for the one 30 days from today

He's going down. Period.

[KoKo]

45. Well, we all hope so. Given his performance this month it's not looking

good though. :-( Still theres months to go. It's still early.

[Kool Kitty]

51. So, what's your idea about how to turn this around?

If I felt as hopeless as you say we should be, I'd slit my wrists. Since I don't, I'd lighten up a bit if I were you. There is plenty of time left, and I think one poll on ABC where they poll, what, a thousand people does not speak for the entire country. We just have to keep fighting, right? Unless you're ready to give up now. I surely am not ready.

[0007]

53. junior ain't gonna win this one - you must be eating too much

Or are you training under KoKo?

[hippiegranny]

57. it was pretty much 50/50 last time

do you know any gore voters who have lost their minds since 2000? i don't. do you know of any nader voters who say they will not go that way this time because of what is at stake? i do. do you know of any 2000 cheney/bush supporters who are completely disgusted and will either vote kerry or stay home? i do. poll numbers only add up to what the pollster wants them to. we do have alot of work to do before november but from what i am seeing the numbers do not add up to a cheney/bush victory. they will have to cheat to make it happen.

[Romulus]

58. I don't get it

I typed in "ABC.com" and got directed to "abc.go.com," which had this:



and this:



What's all the fuss?

:shrug:

[xchrom]

60. who's the boy?

that's all i want to know.

[Romulus]

64. I think he's the new "Bachelor" (eom)

[Hamlette]

59. Remember when we predicted Kerry would be the next to drop out

of the primary races? Not sure what caused the comeback but I wouldn't be surprised to see one again.

When the war is the news people get frightened and want a cowboy to protect them. If the war continues on page one, Kerry picks Wes Clarke ad VP and we win on that issue.

When the economy is the news we win, with any VP.

I would also remind everyone that the ONLY poll that was right in 2000 was Zogby. It had Gore winning. All the others had Bush winning. Gore won. Zogby has Kerry ahead.

It's a long time until November. We will win it. Bush is an idiot. Americans are not that stupid.

[Must_B_Free]

61. Jeesus - will you let this POS die?

the fat lady sang on this post I hope

[Lorien]

62. OK, I'll be one of the few to say

that I agree with much of what you have written. I think that many of the polls are tragically accurate. My district went for Gore in the last election, but driving around town these days I see countless "W 04" bumper stickers, and I've only seen 2 for Kerry (compared to 10 for Dean-but I suppose we can count those as Kerry votes now). Progressives are STILL disorganized and largely inactive-most don't EVER call,write or e-mail their reps and the media (they'll give the excuse that it really won't help. Well, neither will sitting on our asses and kvetching about it). I get the sick feeling that we're all waiting for Kerry to "make his move" at the right moment. That strategy didn't work in 2002, it has NEVER worked with Daschle, and I fear that it won't work now. WE need to be the ones to set the dialog, and the only way we can do that is to use our own voices. Kerry has a huge stockpile of ammo that BushCo has provided him with-he just has to use it, and use it now. But I don't think he's going to be emboldened to do so without our help-OUR being EVERY one of us. Use your voice, while we still have the freedom to do so.

[John_H]

65. LOL!!! Babs is panicing!! My guess: not for Kerry.

50 mil didn't get chimp very much, did it babs? what? Four points? Now it's our turn.

See ya at 45 on Aug 1.