I am beginning to be ashamed of my own party

[freetobegay]

I have seen so much disarray right here on DU lately, no wonder the Republicans have the upper hand.

1. We have our dooms day people.

2. We have some so far left even Marx would cringe.

3. we have people bashing Democratic Senators for proposing a bill that covers things that are against the law (get a life people).

4. We have people smearing the presumptive Democratic nominee.

And the list goes on. I have seen so many tinfoil hats today I just want to :puke: I have no doubt they are popping the corks over in freeperland about this.

In a nut shell to win in November we need unity, without unity we are dead (literaly).

Now that I have that out of my system I suggest a :grouphug:

:loveya:

[maddezmom]

1. lots of them ARE from freeperland

;)

[MoonRiver]

7. That's the ticket!

They post and post one worders or one liners until they have a few hundred. That gives them the facade of DU legitimacy, and then BAM!

[PaDUer]

75. Yes, and many have donated

to get a star by their name..From what I've heard, they're supposed to reveal themselves on election nite..oh goody! Shall we say, "here's your hat, what's your hurry"!

[John_H]

79. LOL! Reveal themselves on election night! They reveal themselves

every time they post. you just can't hide that disjointed Freeper thinking.

[PaDUer]

83. That's so true...

but they think they're doing such a good job w/ at their job. Wonder how much they're getting paid??

[Vickers]

2. Garsh, how horrible to have a bunch of free-thinking folks in this party!!

:P

What we need in November is for the voting to be legitimate. Sans that, we ain't got shit.

Frankly, I much prefer the diversity of this to the ditto-headness of the other.

[freetobegay]

5. I love diveristy too

I'm Gay!

But winners always have a game plan.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

76. "But winners always have a game plan"....

That's a line I would expect to see written by a Freeper.

Oh, wait...

[mzmolly]

78. *Free.... true ... *Thinking? well uhm I dunno about that one.

:P

[Mika]

3. Names please!

Its a big tent. Deal :evilgrin:

---

... because our Bonesman is better than their Bonesman

[wyldwolf]

4. just remember...

DU in NO WAY represents the democratic party or the average dem voter.

We live in our own world here.

[freetobegay]

10. But they do encourage the victory

of the Democratic nominee.

[wyldwolf]

14. well, only some of us do

[markomalley]

6. Well, what do you want!

This is not freeperland where everybody does groupthink. We all have our own minds and are not afraid to use them.

Seriously, our diversity is our strength. But we have to have a leader that can harness our common points and bring us together.

When the convention comes, as long as we show respect to the folks that make up the "base," we should be ok. But, we have to show respect!

Since I stopped lurking and started posting, I have been flamed and verbally abused for my ideas. This is not the way to engage. We need to be better than the enemy and have some discussion. That's what we're supposed to be about, right?

[wasichu]

8. you want unity yet

complain that people are too far left?
Can't have both.

[Padraig18]

9. Some of the posters most likely ARE Freepers.

They come up in batches, like mushrooms after a spring rain. They'll get tombstoned soon enough, and everything will be OK, until the next batch pops up and has a posting frenzy... :shrug:

[w13rd0]

11. #3

Sorry, it's not just an objection because "we want to do things that are illegal". It's the idea of government sanctioned spyware being forced into our homes. Also consider that many of the same Senators advancing this bill were responsible for DCMA. When you shoot yourself in the foot, you don't aim for the other one and call it a double. WE DON'T NEED UNCLE SAM in our CPU. I don't give a F*K that it's purpose is. These attempts to use the government to impose unrealistic, draconian controls on intellectual property are a danger to our democracy.

[freetobegay]

12. Thief's are a greater danger

to our Democracy.

[w13rd0]

15. Bullshit...

...thieves are a greater danger to our democracy? Draconian and expanding intellectual property controls have resulted in increasing monopolization of our most PRECIOUS commodity - creativity. Protect it for 7 years, and then it's public domain. Enough of these fictional legal entities called corporations and their "lifetime + 75yrs" controls on concepts and creativity. That you round me up in your "shame" for your party is laughable. Breaux and Nelson, COME ON. These guys vote with chimpy a good deal of the time anyway. And Hollings, sure he says some things that are right on occassion, but so does Ron Paul, doesn't mean I'm not going to call them out for their pimping for the RIAA and the MPAA.

[freetobegay]

17. One of todays mentality in America is

It's my right to have it free! Thats bullshit, it's also lazyness!

ON EDIT: it's also not using your brain! some would rather steal it from someone else.

[w13rd0]

18. You obviously aren't paying attention...

...your "logic" is the same kind of thinking that resulted in that piece of shit USA PATRIOT act. It's not "I want it free", it's "quit establishing a corporate monopoly on creativity". How the heck can you expect R&D to actually accomplish things if you have to start out with the wheel everytime because Disney has everything else under copyright? Or heck, let's discuss the pharmacuetical industry. It amazes me when those on the right and left seem to have these completely seperated rules of logic they use to decide right and wrong on different issues. Democrats can complain about undue corporate influence from the oil industry, but copyright lobbyists they just love. Is it just a matter of whose name is on the check?

Oh yeah, furthermore, I OBJECT TO GOVERNMENT SPYWARE ON MY COMPUTER. What the hell is so hard to understand about that? A camera in your bathroom, a chip in your computer. How much nannydom do you need to make you feel all warm and fuzzy?

[freetobegay]

19. First off there is not a camera in my bathroom

Say it all you want it's not going to make it true. This sounds to me more like criminal rights!

If we didn't have thieves we wouldn't need it!

Why shouldn't Disney be able to protect their property? Heres a clue people want to STEAL IT!

[w13rd0]

21. I'm pretty much done discussing this with you...

...because you so obviously don't get it. Breaux and Nelson, DINOs. Feinstein, doing her duty. SPYWARE IS NOT WELCOME ON MY COMPUTER. Go sign up for Magic Lantern. This has NOTHING to do with my wanting to "protect criminal rights," and your saying that is just as shameful as the GOP accusing Democrats of being terrorists for questioning Bush's "war on terror". Don't muddle my objections and the debate with childish simplifications ("You just wanna steal stuff"). I DON'T WANT STATE-SANCTIONED SPYWARE ON MY COMPUTER OR IN MY HOUSE. Jimminy cricket. Pfffft...

[freetobegay]

22. I see you like putting words in my mouth

"You just wanna steal stuff"

The correct quote is "Heres a clue people want to STEAL IT!"

Now who's being childish?

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sendero]

38. You clearly...

... do not understand the issue (about copyright control) and I'm too tired to spell it out for you.

But truly, you are blathering on about something you apparently know jack shit about.

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[kiahzero]

45. I doubt that's the case

Just an uninformed opinion.

[sweetheart]

24. I totally agree Wierdo

The intellectual property laws are to repress and stifle
non-corporate thinking, that our entire culture be overwhelmed by
CNN mediocrity.

The congress is corrupt with bribes, the president is a liar and
a criminal, the supreme court is part of the crime... and people
bash the democratic party... of f**king-course. It is disgraceful
this republican-lite vichy republicanism.

My party is most closely the green party, but i'm registered and
voting dem in this coming election... not because i believe the dem
party has changed, but because i against republican-criminals.

I likely will disagree, and i love Karl Marx's work. I think his
writing is brilliant, that such a man was such a visionary and
inspired many others... many of whom grossly misinterpret his work,
or never read it.

Like you, wIErdO, i say "bullshit"

[kiahzero]

28. Copyright infringement is not theft.

It is copyright infringement. It's a different crime, with different standards, and different penalties. Hence why it's called something different.

[Guaranteed]

26. YES. BINGO.

This is a VERY legitimate concern.

[stopbush]

13. DU is hardly "your party."

We're 42,000 hardcore Dems in a nation of 300 million. We're approximately 41,000 votes for John Kerry in November. We are NOT representative of the country as a whole, let alone the Dem party as a whole. We're not officially affiliated with the Dem party, the DLC or anyone else.

We are the die hards, and - as such - our rantings and doom-saying need to be taken with a grain of salt.

Here we are, 2.5 years *after the fact* and the crap about the bushies THAT WE HAVE KNOWN FOR YEARS is finally hitting the mainstream. If DU had REAL impact in the world at large, this stuff would have been out there 2 years ago. But that's not important. The most important thing to remember is that it's hitting the fan far enough in advance of the election for some of it to stick, with or without DU's assist.

When it comes down to it, DU is a great source of support among the tried-and-true. Maybe a few *real* pols take a look once in awhile for insights and dirt on the Rs, but beyond that, our influence is indeed limited. We are a reflective message board, not a policy setting or news producing entity.

Happily, events are as much out of bush's hands as they are out of our hands.

Keep informed, talk to others...and get out and vote in November.

Just my 2¢.

[freetobegay]

16. "DU is hardly "your party.""

And for that I am thankful after todays posts.

[Selwynn]

46. We're pretty thankful too. :)

[Kahuna]

20. Everyone who says they are a Democrat is not a Democrat...

Dems have always had disruptors within the party. Just keep that in mind. They live to disrupt. It's their nature. It's what they do.
Ignore 'em. :shrug: They crave attention. Yet, you could never satisfy them no matter how much you court them.

[freetobegay]

23. Thank you that makes sense to me.

eom

[Guaranteed]

27. Way to split up the party!

Thanks a lot!!

[DrWeird]

29. You sound like a Yoosta Bee.

I'm sorry the tent's not small enough for you.

[gpandas]

30. i'm ashamed of my party because..

of what they did to john dean,but i,m sure gonna' vote for kerry. i feel any legit du posters will do the same. i agree about the unity, but du is a place for free thinking people. not to worry though, the unity is here.

[sadiesworld]

31. I wonder how many Kerry haters have read the title to your thread...

only to click on and be sorely disappointed?

BWAAAAAAAA

Good show, freetobegay!

:yourock:

[freetobegay]

35. LOL

Thanks! :hi:

[Generator]

32. Ashamed of the Democratic party? I was ashamed when Clinton was

President but NOT because of MonicaGate.

Because I thought he was Republican lite. Because I hated (and still do) NAFTA and because I swore on that alone I wouldn't vote for him again. (That was way before Monica) SO I have principals, I voted for Nader in 1996.But that didn't really matter because I knew that Clinton would win again.

I didn't like him for welfare reform, I didn't like him for weakening environmental standards, I didn't like that he compromised on every damn nominee he put forth, Clinton ALWAYS compromised and back downed if he thought it would cost him.

I ended up DISGUSTED at the way he was treated over a minor sexual dalliance.

I voted for Al Gore. Convinced my hubby to vote for Al Gore (we live in Oregon and it was close, but Oregon went for Gore) I liked Al Gore and I still do.

Then this excuse for a leader, a religious zealot came into office, and allowed the worst attack of American life on our soil to happen. He has never provided accountabilty for the actions of himself or those that were responsible before or after the attack.

He started a pre-emptive war based on faulty intelligence. And now he says it doesn't matter because he is on a calling from on high to free the people of the world. Our standing in the world has become the lowest its ever been.

I barely have time to mention the environment!

Ashamed of the Democratic party???????? Compared to these liars, criminials and zealots? As far as FREE SPEECH goes, if we don't have that we have nothing. This place has given me hope, there is never enough free speech.

[Deja Q]

33. from 3 years of bushlicking to a lot of them supporting CBDTPA

I no longer scoff at those who say there's no difference between the two mainstream parties.

THERE IS NO FUCKING DIFFERENCE.

Not anymore.

http://www.stoppoliceware.org/ is what turned the tide for me, I am positively outraged by this sort of commie shit that you'd expect to see in Russia circa 1979. Not THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA during ANY period of time.

America is in a coma; this fascist shit which will only get worse mean its death.

Anybody who supports the corporation is part of it.

Government must be returned to the people.

I'm sure they'll soon outlaw the reading of the book "final exit" no doubt. Those who want escape will be prohibited from it... Live isn't worth living if we can't be free. aNd none of us is. Not if the fascism grows worse. And read the list in that URL and count the "Democrats". I'm fucking outraged. We all must be.

I'm tired of the capitulation. Damn tired of it.

[GreenPartyVoter]

34. Nothing wrong with being a leftist..or a Marxist

[dawn]

36. Well...

I only get ashamed of my party when we pander to the right wing!

[JanMichael]

37. Hell I started having my doubts with NAFTA, then Welfare "reform"...

...then the 1996 TelCom give-away, but man o' man you're right, those Leftists are the real problem:eyes:

[Sterling]

41. I love newbies

They are so entertaining with their ideas on how we can all better support their worldview by keeping our opinions to ourselves or altering them to fit into the current DLC talking points. :eyes:

[freetobegay]

42. And who do we want to see win in November?

:eyes:

[Selwynn]

47. If Kerry winning means

we should not be free to express our ideas on a fucking internet forum, then I guess not kerry...

[freetobegay]

50. Oh Such language!

Oh my Gay stars


So your saying the other guy? Sorry i don't want to use his name here

[Selwynn]

63. I'm saying that one of the greatest privileges of democracy

is free expression of dissenting ideas. DU displays its FINEST HOUR when it reflect broad and diverse opinion. Some of it I strongly agree with. Some of it I strongly disagree with. Some of it makes me blow my stack... but I wouldn't change a thing.

DU is a place for people to come together under the big tent and passionately express their points of view. It's ok to talk about conspiracy theories even though I don't find most of them credible. It's ok to talk about disagreement with poor legislation no matter who supports it. It's ok to disagree with John Kerry when we feel John Kerry is wrong. It's ok to represent the passionate ideals of "leftists" without apology.

In short, its ok to disagree, and do so publicly. It's the best part of DU. And if this is un happy for you, then perhaps this isn't the place for you, because it sure as hell isn't going to change any time soon.

If you can handle people who think differently than you do and don't march in lockstep, then you're always welcome :toast:

John Kerry should (and does) represent all the principles reflected here on these boards even today - differing opinion, honest discussion, freedom of expression and the right to be heard. If you have a problem with that, perhaps it is you who would feel more comfortable with the policies of "the other guy." I'm pretty sure he's on a mission to quash dissent and crack down on those who disagree.

[Dark]

40. Don't forget

that the democrats, including Kerry, refuse to support gay marriage. That royally disgusts me. I'm voting green in everyway this November EXCEPT for president. But I'm not voting FOR Kerry, I'm voting AGAINST Bu$h.

[kiahzero]

43. Wrong.

3. we have people bashing Democratic Senators for proposing a bill that covers things that are against the law (get a life people).

Wrong... we have people bashing Democratic Senators for supporting an authoritarian solution to a minor problem. Most Democrats that I care to associate myself with reject authoritarian impulses.

The CBDPTA is a bullshit piece of legislation, just like the DMCA.

[Selwynn]

48. Let's just keep perspective on who this poster is referring to...

...one of the people is me.

I had the audacity to suggest that Woodward was not "on our side" that its strongly possible that his emergence into the news is part of a strategy that the WH supports. I point out that Woodward's book is linked to on the Bush campaign site as "recommended" reading and that Woodward had nearly unfettered access to the WH and one on one time with Bush - I find it hard to believe that you get that kind of invitation if the administration is not "ok" with what you are producing.

For that, I could the accused of being a tin foil hatter. For those of you that know me well, I'm sure you're laughing pretty hard at that irony.

I also had the audacity to describe the election race not as a "shoe" in for Kerry but as an uphill fight. I indicated that I'm not surprised by current polls nor surprised that Bush's polls are still where they are despite recent revelations - people have an amazing capacity to ignore truth. I said that we need to not start throwing the victory party before the fight is over...

...and for that, I was labeled a "doomsayer."

Our friendly new poster is not advocating party unity, he is advocating that all people who disagree with HIM stay silent. That is the difference.

[kiahzero]

51. 600-some-odd posts is hardly a n00b

My take is that it's just uninformed opinion, rather than any sort of malice.

[Selwynn]

55. I didn't say n00b did I? (checks) I said new, and that seems fair.

[kiahzero]

57. Oh my.

I take that back. Less than a month is a n00b, no matter how many posts. That's not an insult, it's just a fact - if you haven't been here for very long, you are, by defintion, a newbie.

[Selwynn]

68. Less than a months and we're already getting this thread? Usually....

....it takes at least three months before the obligatory "I'm ashamed of x" post.... :D

[kiahzero]

69. I don't know that I've done one of those yet

There was the, "Things I've learned in GD2004" thread, but that was satire. =D

[Selwynn]

71. Oh I did! Then I was pretty embarrassed at its foolishness later..

It's amazing what a little longevity in the community does for perspective.

I can't believe I came in all "here's what's wrong with DU" - heh. I had a whopping two months or so under my belt... sheesh.. <-----massive noob.

[kiahzero]

72. I've had those thoughts from time to time....

mainly that sometimes the rhetoric gets a bit extreme. But it'd be hypocritical to go off on a spiel, 'cause then my rhetoric would be extreme.

Hmmmm... paradoxical goodness.

[Selwynn]

73. As soon as I get holier than thou about rhetoric, I lose my stack....

..on some thread somewhere, and then look dumb.

Today the umpteenth religion bashing thread just was more than I could handle gracefully.

So now I *TRY* not to give sweeping generalization lectures and focus on specific points instead. I am far from perfect however, as everyone sees daily.

[dpibel]

59. Not necessarily the best index

Six hundred + posts, sure.

Date joined: April 2.

Seventeen days doesn't exactly qualify as old hand, IMHO.

[freetobegay]

52. "...one of the people is me."

Vanity? The rest is just poppycock.

[Selwynn]

54. No... your own words:

freetobegay (680 posts) Mon Apr-19-04 05:12 PM
Response to Original message
12. Was there a big sale on tinfoil hats today or what!



www.gayliberals.com where we carry on the fight

[freetobegay]

61. Where I have I mentioned your name in this thread?

" Was there a big sale on tinfoil hats today or what!" that was directed at several people in general, no one inpaticular.

[Selwynn]

66. It was a direct response to my post, in my thread.

Directly responding to my comments about Woodward.

In this thread you said "lot of tin foil hatters today" and previously you directly responded to my post, and said exactly what I quoted.

[Selwynn]

56. By the way, in what way is it "poppycock?"

Can you defend your assertion? Or will you just post yet another one liner quip with no meaning?

[freetobegay]

62. Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

Main Entry: pop·py·cock
Pronunciation: 'pä-pE-"käk
Function: noun
Etymology: D dialect pappekak, literally, soft dung, from Dutch pap pap + kak dung
: empty talk or writing : NONSENSE

Sometimes one line quips is all someone deserves.

[Selwynn]

65. How is it nonsense... you're avoiding the question.

I didn't ask what the word means, I asked in what way my comments deserved the term. I'm challenging you to make an argument, which you seem completely unable to do.

[bobthedrummer]

60. I pushed the envelope on tinfoil here-there are real facts in LIHOP now

I no longer hear ridicule of that once unthinkable subject.
I've been posting the same basic message since 12-12-2000, there's been a RW coup of some type.
It is emerging piecemeal every news cycle now imo.
The poster that started this thread isn't calling for unity indeed-imho--just bitching about pet peeves, perhaps?

[Kitsune]

49. What the hell is wrong with being a leftist?

You say it like it's a bad thing.

[themann1086]

53. That's a really good question

What's wrong with being left? You threw that in their like a swear word. Someone must have missed the Auntie Pinko article from a few months ago...

[Selwynn]

58. Was wondering that myself..

[bvar22]

64. DU has been here for me for over 3.5 years.

It was more intimate here during the first year of DU's life, and the board ran at a much slower pace. Sometimes, it took days for a thread to scroll off the front page in General Discussion. Never the less, discussions could get HOT. Nader, NAFTA, the DLC, REAL Liberalism, I/P,LIHOP, and other issues have ALWAYS spawned intense debates.
DU is still here.

Freepers have ALWAYS invaded this board, usually in waves. The moderators have handled them well.
DU is still here.

This year, the Primary season generated many heated discussions. Many drifted off the issues into name calling. The DU staff intervened.
DU is still here.

This year, DU has also seen a more sophisticated intruder with some professional skills in writing and dissemination of propaganda and disinformation. Undoubtedly, they were on some conservative's payroll to target places like DU. They lasted longer than the average freeper, but were recognized for what they were.
DU is still here.

From the start, unhappy members of DU have lobbied to change the format so that people they disagreed with would be banned from DU, or at least censored. Some have come here with suggestions about how DU should change so that they could be happy. Fortunately, the administrators disagree.
DU is still here.

I am not ashamed of DU. I am not ashamed to be a LIBERAL. I am not afraid to express my opinion or post my observations because DU is still here.

[Guaranteed]

67. Nice post.

Good perspective. :)

[Selwynn]

70. Well written!

[Media_Lies_Daily]

74. And is your party the GOP?...

I've noticed a pattern to your posting that involves being as devisive as possible to include insulting comments from time-to-time.

The people who usually engage in your type of debate tactics are usually found on other message boards, usually much more to the right of DU.

[leesa]

77. We are not goose-steppers like the GOP. It's absolutely fine to disagree

and it's fine to be angry. We have listened long enough to the whiney side of the Dem party.
If I disagree with Kerry's position on something I will say so because that is what democracy and free speech and discourse are all about. We will never be like the GOP and I am very thankful for that because I like to use my brains and not just follow that lemming's ass in front of my nose as it heads over a cliff.

[UTUSN]

80. And That Party Would Be Which? n/t

[Blue_Chill]

81. Don't let this place get to you

As it is a very active forum it brings in many real left lunatics that are just as if not more dangerous then the republicans. And as an added bonus you get Freeper cave dwellers that have decided pretending to be a left wing lunatic is more fun then the cave drawings and nut scratching that usually fills their days.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

82. To which of the posters you described do you believe you're responding?