Kerry bothered me on "Meet the Press" yesterday.

[Cascadian]

I am frankly rather disturbed and irked that would support Israel's haphazard and wreckless decision to keep parts of the occupied territories seized in 1967. I am also a little distrubed that he would support the assassination of Hamas leaders. I do not condone or support Hamas. They are a terrorist organization but combine both actions that Israel has made, how on earth is this suppose to bring stability to the Middle East? The attacks on Israel intensified the moment Sharon took power. Kerry is echoing the same views that Bush has made. What else does Kerry support as far as the Middle East goes? I get the feeling it's going to be "more of the same" if Kerry becomes president.


John

[patriotvoice]

Yes, I suspect it will be "more of the same" as far as the Middle East...

... no matter for whom you vote, Israel will still get far more preference than Palestine. The US must adopt an even and balanced relationship with both nations if its ever going to be credibly held as an arbitor.

[David Dunham]

Kerry needs Jewish support and votes or he loses to Bush.

[hedda_foil]

5. This could have been handled another way.

Most Jewish voters are very liberal. He could easily have presented it as a threat to Israel's future by saying that the Israeli government should be more farsighted and that it's the responsibility of the US to help one of our greatest allies avoid creating a greater threat to their own security and that of the ME as a whole.

[Cascadian]

7. The current Israeli government is the most extreme in years.

I am sorry to say that but I get the impression that Ariel Sharon is bent on bringing World War Three. I really miss Yitzak Rabin. Who can remember this scene?




John

[FrustratedDem]

32. That scene is an embarrassment

Allowing a terrorist like Arafat to be validated was a mistake. He should have been arrested instead.

[wuushew]

34. What would that have accomplished?

and why would the United States have the authority to do such a thing?

[Cascadian]

37. It is amazing how people forget.

I know that Arafat was no saint then again people thought Sadat was no sweetheart either, but both sides Israel and Palestine (Arafat included.) were willing to give peace a chance. That all died after Rabin was shot and the extremists in Palestine threatened civil war among their people. Thus hence the rise of the extremists in Israel (Sharon) and the extremists in Palestine (Hamas). They destroyed all hopes for peace. It amazes me how Arafat who just ten years ago was hailed as a peacemaker and is now once again considered a terrorist. Don't blame him. Blame Hamas and blame the Israeli extremists like Ariel Sharon.


John

[Rex]

41. You're right - we only validate CIA trained terrorists.

Home grown just doesn't work for us (unless they are from Latin America).

[NMDemDist2]

1. bite your tongue--more of the same indeed

I don't agree with Kerry on 100% of what he says and don't expect to. What I do know about Kerry is he will stay engaged and work mightily to get some movement from Israel.

[onehandle]

2. Welcome to Democratic Underground.

We have a candidate. Suck it up.

[hadrons]

3. more of the same" if Kerry becomes president ....

even though I know anyone/anything is better than Dumbya, I know what you mean ... but this is why the Dems have been getting their asses handled to them lately, they aren't positioning themselves as a clear alternative

Look at the support Bush still has, yeah a lot of them are "morans", but there is a sizable number that really don't see a major difference between the two save for a few issues and those issues usually decide how people vote (or don't)

[Z-Dawg-E]

4. Charge of the Light Brigade!

Is essentially what you're saying. Unfortunately, it is true.

[Thrill]

6. What do you expect him to say?

Be against Sharon? Why not just beg the Jewish voters to vote for Bush. Its politics folks

[pop goes the weasel]

12. Not all Jews support Sharon

At least the ones I know think Sharon is generating more problems than he is solving.

[blm]

8. Yet you supported those who promised Israel INCREASED funding

for defense and backtracked on comments of "evenhandedness" or did I miss your condemnation at that time?

[Cascadian]

9. This is among the things that irks me about Kerry.

n/t

John

[blm]

14. And this is the disingenuousness I've come to expect

from those who ignore their own double standard..

[Cascadian]

15. Are you talking about me????

I never said I support increased spending for Israel. Where did you get that from????

:wtf:



John

[blm]

16. My mistake then.

I thought I recalled your unwavering support for Dean who DID promise Sharon increased funding forIsrael's defense.

If I missed your condemnation at the time then I apologize.

[Cascadian]

18. I supported Dean but not the increased funding for Sharon.

I loathe Sharon.

John

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

10. As much as I LOATHE realpolitik, I think he's between the paint and the

wall on this issue. I didn't care for the statement either. Be that as it may..in some areas we may see more of the same but in more areas than not we won't and that is worthy of consideration.

Kerry in the past made no secret of his lack of love for Sharon and his policies so I fully suspect he is saying what he needs to say to get elected..I don't consider that a fault at this point.

[Solidarity]

19. Are You Saying Kerry Is Lying?

"I fully suspect he is saying what he needs to say to get elected.."

If that is true "nothingshocksme", does that mean that Kerry's election year comments on any issue are not to be believed and are just so much campaign rhetoric?

I have to wonder what other falsehoods you think Kerry needs to say in order to get elected. Give me a few more examples please.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

30. No I am not saying that...that is you extrapolating in order to dramatize

[AwareOne]

11. Kerry moves further to the right with each passing day

In reality, he is just another face of the oligarchy.

[0rganism]

43. Look at what bush did: run to the center, govern from the fringe

If Kerry is using the same playbook, maybe we'll be happier with his presidency than some of us believe right now.

[Skittles]

13. Kerry was NOT the best candidate we could have had

but we are f***.ing stuck with him now

[Nicholas_J]

17. Sure he was

He outclassed, out experiences, and out gunned every other democratic candidate running against him. If Dean, Edwards, or Clark were the candidate, we would be looking at the kind of polling data that hasoccured with every other imcumbent president over the last fifty years. any of the others would currently be running 10 to 20 points behind Bush right now, and all of the comparative polls that were taken compaigin Bush to Kerry, Bush to Dean and so on were fairly well on the money during the primaries. Only Kerry came close enough to being able to compete with Bush. The others always stayeed far behind him in the polls.

[Cascadian]

20. If Kerry was the best choice then why was he behind in January?

Had it not been for Howard Dean being " character assassinated" by the DNC and the mainstream media, Dean would be out on top now, but what is done is done.


John

[blm]

26. The MEDIA kept declaring Kerry dead. Some chose to believe them

and internet message boards instead of the boots on the ground in Iowa belonging to firefighters and veterans who led the charge for Kerry.

[ACK]

28. I like Dean but I am tired of this crap ... the media assassinated Kerry

And they did it first. Kerry rose above it.

Dean could not.

Take the values you cherish from Dean and help move the party more to the left.

[FrustratedDem]

33. help move the party more to the left?

What? With each passing day Kerry moves the party so much closer to the far right that it has all but blurred the difference between him and Bush.

[mitchum]

29. Believe what you wish...

even when it's not true.

[Nicholas_J]

44. Lets get real

AND drop the media assasination of Dean tinfoil hat conspiracies.

Sorry, Kerry is facing the same sort of media attention now, nad it is not having the effect on Kerry that it had on Dean. Dena wasnt liked bt more than the core of his support base once the public had the opportunity to compare Dean to others, Those are the only fact that are real. Dean only had a very small and marginalized support base. Think that his TOTAL opposition to th war in Iraq would have brough the masses to Dean. No chance. Support of Gay Marriage...Hardly. National Health. Sorry, that has become a sidesissue at this point, barely mentioned. If you need an excuse for Dean being a poor choice. the "Media Went After Him" myth is good enough. The media was also VERY VERY GOOD to Dean for all the monthsw between July and December, so it can be said that the media unfairly gave Dean the boost that made it seem that he had the nominations sewed up by Demcember.

It just has no substance.

In New Hampshire itself , it was found that out of all people who "VOTED FOR DEAN" only 22 percent thought he had no chance of beating Bush. Sorry, Deans failings and inability belong in only one place. On his own shoulders. His own supporters did not beleive he could win, 78 percent of them.

The actual fact are that when it counted, Kerry simply ran a better campaign, and was far more in tune whith what the largest number of voters wanted to hear and see. Dean was not. Dean just started to beleive that the nomination was his, and screwed up royally.

[Kitsune]

21. A potato with a smiley face would poll this way against B*sh. *nt*

[0007]

22. To each his own

[Skittles]

23. I don't give a SHIT that he WON

he just is NOT THE BEST CANDIDATE. It sickens me to have to vote for someone who actually VOTED FOR IWR.

[Cascadian]

24. It sickens me too.

If Kerry does get into the White House, it won't be because he won, it's because Bush beat himself. What is really disturbing is that the Karl Roves of the world could spin Bush out of this through an October surprise or worse. What is sad is that there are enough "morans" who would fall for it and allow Bush another term.


John

[Kitsune]

25. It sickens me three. *nt*

[ACK]

27. Goddamnit ... how many of these threads do we need?

I understand the frustration.

But do we need to have like five different threads all talking about exactly the same thing?

Both sides have blood on their hands. Sharon is not some noble jew fighting to prevent the extinction of the homeland. Hamas is not a group of freedom fighters trying to attain a two state solution.

Sharon orders bombings and strikes inside residential areas and panders to the settlement radical zionists and the conduct of the occupation is oppresive and humiliating with no end in sight.

Palestinian terrorist blow up buses with kids on them. Not only that, but it is not some isolated fringe thing. The majority of the Palestinian people hails them as "heroes" and Arafat and others send money to the families.

Guess what guys? Neither side wants peace. Sharon does not want peace and neither does Hamas. Hell Hamas leaders still call for the total destruction of the Israeli state.

Very few people in power on either side right now at this time wants peace.

I have seen other threads extolling the bravery of the Palenstinians and others where people actually praised Sharon.

Kerry unfortunately did above and beyond the minimum of what he had to say to prevent Bush from out-zioning him. But no one has taken a truly fair evenhanded policy.

+

[Cascadian]

31. Remember fellow DUers this.....

I posted it before but I want to relish what we all once had. I will keep showing this as a reminder.






John

[G_j]

35. Clinton endorses Israel's Gaza `disengagement' proposal

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/ny-bc-ny--clinton-israel0419apr...

Bill Clinton endorses Israel's Gaza `disengagement' proposal


By JENNIFER FRIEDLIN
Associated Press Writer

April 19, 2004, 9:31 PM EDT


NEW YORK -- Former President Clinton endorsed Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's proposed "disengagement" plan to unilaterally withdraw from the Gaza Strip, but he urged the Israelis to restart negotiations with the Palestinians.

"Do I think it's good ... this Gaza proposal? I certainly do, but I think it's got to be part of a larger strategy to figure out how to reengage Israel and her neighbors," Clinton said Monday.

Speaking at a panel discussion entitled "Racing the Clock: The Quest to End the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict," Clinton said an Israeli withdrawal from Gaza would demonstrate good faith to the Palestinians and a desire to end the occupation.

He said the withdrawal should be accompanied by the renewal of talks between Israel and the Palestinian Authority, despite the Palestinian leadership's previous failures to seize opportunities to achieve a peace deal.
..more..

[Cascadian]

36. Damn!

What in the hell is their problem????

The more I think about it, the more it becomes apparent to me that we REALLY ARE NOT in control of our own government and the people, both Democrat and Republican, are working for somebody else.


John

[notbush]

38. does make you

wonder......

[President Jesus]

39. think long and hard before you start throwing around "more of the same"

...that is EXACTLY the trap enough of us (you) fell into 4 years ago that effectively put this monster in the oval office.

You may not agree with Kery on this particular issue, but don't let that devolve to a blanket statement of "more of the same," ie, there's no difference between the two candidates.

And besides, Kerry correctly stated that Hamas has chosen the path of violence to engage Israel. That's a fact, and violence is what they are getting. One may agree or disagree with the goals of Hamas, but one can't dispute that the primary method of achieving those goals is use of violence. If you're going to dish it out, you better be prepared to get some of it back...a message us American and Israelis need to take to heart.

Another thing we all find repulsive about this administration is how 'allergic' they are to anything that was Clinton. We would do well not to fall into that same shallow trap.

[notbush]

40. Yea

but they did it first!!!!!!
Hamas(and the Palestinians) and Israel can point fingers at each other for another 50 years....

[corporatewhore]

42. it bothers me to when supposed liberal dems side with a racist apartheid

state

[maggrwaggr]

45. his obvious botox bothered me

real men don't do botox.