Bush's lead is increasing! Shows you just what most Americans really

[keithyboy]

are. And they are not the compassionate, freedom-loving, justice lovers they pretend they are to the rest of the world. They are every bit the aryan supremiscists and fascists that existed during WWII.

[bryant69]

1. Two points

1). Great post--you should be writing slogans for the Democratic Party. We need more deep thinkers who can really reach out to the American people on their level.

2). Which poll are you talking about? Some polls show them neck and neck, others show kerry a bit ahead.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[onehandle]

2. Can't you see the sky is falling?

We're surrounded by freedom hating sheep!

:eyes:

[Norquist Nemesis]

32. Now we've allowed them to redefine "freedom"

and my definition does not include invading, occupying, and colonizing other countries.

[Commendatori]

70. No offense, but who cares?

Wait until Kerry hands Bush his ass in a debate or two, and then even Bush's friends in the media won't be able to concoct a "Bush leads" poll that people will take seriously.

[dennis4868]

3. I disagree....

most people are not like us here at DU....they are not well informed because the media is letting them down. The media has about 20 Watergates to investigate on Bush but they give a scandal about 5 minutes of time and then it's on to something else...The media decided 4 years ago that they were not going to hold Bush accountable for anything....Bush knows this and that is why he can out a CIA agent, start an illegal war, lie about the reasons for war, divert appropriated funds from Aghanistan to Iraq, not enforce environmental lies, lie about the cost of the medicare bill, etc....there is no accountability anymore....not until there is a dem back in the WH of course!

[bloom]

4. I was talking with a lady the other day....

who mentioned her son, in high schlool was going to sign up for the National Guard. I mentioned I had a nephew in Iraq that had been sent home wounded from Fallujah. She said she didn't know that much about what was going on. I didn't want to get into a political discussion (at my neice's wedding shower) so I said rather vaguely that I knew more than I wanted to know.

She seemed genuinely clueless, which is so sad to me - with a son signing up and all. I think I may have made her think about paying attention a little more. I hope?

[Carni]

9. Is she living in a damned cave?

Seriously...how could she not know a whole lot about what is going on?

This is really pretty shocking!

[Catherine Vincent]

10. You'd be surprised at how many Americans

that don't know what is going on in Iraq. There's plenty in my family.

[skypilot]

20. From what I've seen on the news...

...a lot of wives and mothers don't WANT to know what's going on. They are so terrified of turning on the TV and finding out that a loved one has been killed that some of them are just avoiding the news altogether. It's a way of coping that has the additional and unfortunate effect of leaving them uninformed.

[Carni]

57. I can understand

I can understand why the mother of a person already IN service would tune out due to the stress, but I cannot imagine average people not even noticing that the Iraq "situation" (I don't even know what to call it) is a serious mess that you would NOT want to send your kid into.

You people are right there are a lot of unengaged people running around out there with their heads buried in the sand, but it still shocks me every time I hear one of these stories!

[DoktorGreg]

14. I can go one better....

My cousin was in Fallujah, got out right before it blew. I called to check and see if he got out ok. His mother was like, oh no everything is ok, the war ended a year ago...

If the mothers of the soldiers are not paying attention...

[bloom]

74. That is horrible

When this lady left, I thought it looked like she had sort of a worried look on her face.

So I hoped something I said - between mentioning something about us building bases over there..and my wounded nephew...made her think...

[sandnsea]

53. That's why I don't go out much

I have an 18 year old son. And she's letting her kid sign up for the Guard and she doesn't know what's going on???? I know me and it wouldn't have mattered where I was at. I would have been escorted out of the wedding shower, no doubt about it.

[bloom]

77. yeah, well

my sister-law (my brother's wife) and I have an agreed upon truce to not discuss our political beliefs. It's like our own peace pact. If I'd started anything at her only daughter's wedding or shower - that would be it.

We disagree on nearly everything political or religious. It's better for the family not to get started.



I think I did sow some seeds of doubt in her friend, as it is. I don't know if it's possible for her son to back out at this point. He's a junior in high school, I think she said. Seems like anything they sign before they are 18 shouldn't count. But I don't know?

[sandnsea]

80. You'd think

Somehow I don't think that signing stuff before they turn 18 applies to the military.

Speaking of families and weddings, my daughter is getting married in September. I'm thinking of putting up "Bush Free Zone" signs in my yard. Just to remind my family to shut the fuck up at my house!

Ack. I'm going to have to start getting some callouses on my tongue to get ready for all the biting I'm going to have to do in September. For the sake of my daughter I guess.

[SharonAnn]

86. She would let her son do that without checking out what's happening?

What kind of mother is she?

[porkrind]

58. The Media

Here is the key to "the mystery of the media:"

http://www.zmag.org/chomsky/sam/sam-contents.html

Whether they're called "liberal" or "conservative," the major media are large corporations, owned by and interlinked with even larger conglomerates. Like other corporations, they sell a product to a market. The market is advertisers -- that is, other businesses. The product is audiences. For the elite media that set the basic agenda to which others adapt, the product is, furthermore, relatively privileged audiences.

So we have major corporations selling fairly wealthy and privileged audiences to other businesses. Not surprisingly, the picture of the world presented reflects the narrow and biased interests and values of the sellers, the buyers and the product.

Other factors reinforce the same distortion. The cultural managers (editors, leading columnists, etc.) share class interests and associations with state and business managers and other privileged sectors. There is, in fact, a regular flow of high-level people among corporations, government and media. Access to state authorities is important to maintain a competitive position; "leaks," for example, are often fabrications and deceit produced by the authorities with the cooperation of the media, who pretend they don't know.

In return, state authorities demand cooperation and submissiveness. Other power centers also have devices to punish departures from orthodoxy, ranging from the stock market to an effective vilification and defamation apparatus.

Please pass on this link to others! It's important we all know about this!

[worldgonekrazy]

64. Well I think the media turned on him a while ago

But it may be too little too late since they spent so much time after 9/11 licking his boots. But I suppose that might have been some of the motivation for the Bush Administration's willful neglect on 9/11.

[mistertrickster]

5. I give the American people a little more credit than that BUT the

fact is that since WWII, the American majority hasn't met a war they didn't love, at least at first.

If we think we (as a nation) are morally superior to the Germans who backed the Nazi machine, we're sadly mistaken. Give us a Fuhrer, and we'll "zeig heil" him all the way to Vietnam or Iraq.

Hell, I thought we were going to go to war with France about a year ago.

[OHdem10]

6. With all the bad news comking out of Iraq

and our military surroungingFallugja(?) and Najaf,--this gives the appearance we are in battle. People rally around any president "to show the world our country is strong and we suppport our leader" It is a throwback to the old adage Partisanship ends at the water's edge. The Gallop Pollster himself explained this on CNN.

The improved poll ratings take the Media off the Hook. With the drop drop dropping of shoes, O'Neals book, John Dean's "Worse than Watergate" Kevin Phillips book, Richard Clarkes Book 9/11 Hearings
the Media (who after all are the arbiters of scandal) was in the position of having to make a call. If they give the person a pass there is no scandal. Bush 's improved poll numbers takes them off the hook. They can say the American people support the president. Everthing will be forgoten and we move on. The Media will explain again we did not undestand the American people. We mkight think these things are serious here in Washington but the people do not.
Bill Schneider started this explanation yesterday on CNN.

[LeahMira]

11. What is the chance...

With all the bad news comking out of Iraq...
and our military surrounding Fallujah and Najaf,--this gives the appearance we are in battle. People rally around
any president "to show the world our country is strong and we suppport our leader" It is a throwback to the old
adage Partisanship ends at the water's edge. The Gallop Pollster himself explained this on CNN.

What is the chance that incidents are being deliberately instigated in order to get a violent reaction from the Iraqis so the American public will kick in to this "to show the world our country is strong and we suppport our leader" mode?

The administration is aware of the fact that any number of things are coming out which make it look really bad. The American people might begin to question the administration (already has begun this) since the revelations started. How do we know that these newer resistance efforts are not being clandestinely supported by the administration so as to pull the doubters back into the fold?

:tinfoilhat:

[ProfessorGAC]

7. Press Conference Bounce

Lots of chicken littleism around here lately.
The Professor

[MallRat]

21. Bounce?

If Bush actually got a "bounce" from that train wreck he calls a press conference, we're even more fucked than I thought.

:mad:

-MR

[BillZBubb]

25. I agree. If that disaster of a "press conference" helped Bush*

then saying "the sky is falling" is UNDERSTATEMENT!

[truthspeaker]

8. you're assuming the polls aren't complete bullshit

You think CNN wouldn't fabricate poll results to favor their boss in the White House?

[Selwynn]

12. Funny how when we like em they're right; when we don't they're "bullshit"

[ProfessorGAC]

13. Right You Are

Good catch, Selwynn. Actually, the polls are just fine, but the differences are slight, reflect day to day bounce issues, and aren't a good representation of the overall view, unless one averages all polls and moving averages over time.

This poll is likely correct, reflects the news conference bounce, and is not different enough from the last poll to indicate any real change.

The problem is in the reporting of the polls. Breathless talking heads (like yesterday's Blitzer/Schneider exchange) indicating how the public was responding to Bush even though, blah, blah, blah. The polls had actually not indicated a statistical change in voter sentiment, but you wouldn't know it from that exchange.
The Professor

[skjpm]

15. or maybe it's just that people like Bush better than Kerry

Face it, more people in America resemble Bush rather than Kerry--most are bumbling, moronic, incurious, unsympathetic jerks. So naturally Bush will do better. The problem isn't Bush, it's Americans.

Not that Kerry's any prize. He's the ultimate Alan Alda candidate whose nuances come across as weaknesses and who perfectly represents the Democratic party's utter inability to stand up and face Bush like a man.

[ProfessorGAC]

29. I'll Stick With The Numbers

And, by my analysis, nothing has changed. The split was about what we should have expected, the slight uptick, within statistically predictable limits, is caused more by random chance or a press conference bounce, than any actual trend.

I see your point, i just don't agree with it. Mostly because the difference doesn't actually exist, so that makes the poll valid. However, your reason may explain why such a poll is even close. If people weren't as you described, Bush would be already left for politically dead.
The Professor

[Angry Black Man]

56. Actually, it's this type of attitude that turns people off to the Left

I've come across more posts from people around here that call people in this country stupid, lazy, moronic, idiots..this list goes on.

I've been getting the sense for the past few years in my conversation with people I know, and people that I strike up conversations with in the street, that are really turned off by this rabid condescension that tends to come out of the Left for average Americans. You might think it's true..and often times, hell yes.. it is true. But be careful what you say...that attitude has a way of spreading like a virus, and if we want to win elections, we need everyone we can get on our side!

[Selwynn]

62. Good.

Stupid, lazy, moronic, idiots are not welcome anyway.

Our slogan should be, "Democrats: Just leave the driving to us." :)


I'm kidding...kinda...

[Angry Black Man]

63. then welcome to the perpetual losing party

If we're going to kick out the morons, thereby losing any chance at victory this Fall, then find an anti-war candidate to support so we can at least look ourselves in the mirror the next day.

[Selwynn]

84. Blah blah blah - I said just kidding

[worldgonekrazy]

65. True, but can you blame people for thinking the American people are dumb?

They've shown us time and time again--especially over the last four years--that they are both stupid and apathetic, at least when it comes to politics. This is because a lot of them have an attitude like "well I'm not interested in politics, so I don't have to pay attention," but they are under the mistaken impression that politics is a hobby, not a necessity. It is exactly by not paying attention that we have gotten to where the United States is today in terms of Iraq, the budget deficit, and so forth.

So basically, yeah, you are right, elitism does turn people off to the left. But you can also see why many on the left look down on the willfully ignorant?

[Angry Black Man]

67. of course i can

We all know the ignorant dope who sits on his couch suck'n cans of bud and stuff'n his face with chips. Hell, I do it myself on ocassion. But even if true, it sends a bad vibe and I know people who are really turned off by it. Democrats like to talk about "the little guy", but out of the other side of their mouth, they call him a moron. you can't have it both ways, and it will cost us elections.

[LoZoccolo]

69. I have a question for you.

I take it you've read The Autobiography of Malcolm X, right? I noticed you quote him in your signature line.

[Name removed]

71. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LoZoccolo]

72. I just figured you had...

...because that's one of the books I've read while "educating myself on the inequities of life."

:hi: :nuke:

[Name removed]

73. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Angry Black Man]

83. ok, sorry

for the MF... I'm hav'n a bad day.

[Angry Black Man]

76. It's been a while, but I've read it

The man stood for principle...not sell'n out like ya'll are gonna do by supporting this Kerry cat. I'm sick of it, man. We've all seen this story before...Kerry ain't gonna do squat different then Bush is doing in Iraq. ya'll know it...he's said as much himself. And don't start talk'n to me about domestic issues. Not much difference there either, and even so, the process itself chews up most policy differences anyway. Between working through a divided congress, and sell'n out to special interests, most domestic differences are meaningless. ya'll think Kerry is the answer, but I'm tell'n ya, you in for a big disappointment!

[LoZoccolo]

78. But surely you remember...

...what he said to the white girl who followed him all the way back to Harlem and asked if there was anything she could do, right?

[Angry Black Man]

79. he told her to buzz off

if i recall.

[LoZoccolo]

81. Nope.

He retracts his answer later in the book though.

[Angry Black Man]

82. what's your point?

cause it's lost on me.

I honestly don't see any correlation between the white girl asking X how she could help, and whether supporting Kerry is selling out your cause, or worth the effort.

I assume you mean the white girl is all Democrats who aren't in love with Kerry, but agree with the larger cause to get Bush out. I got that right? X turns her away (although, as you've said, he later regretted that). I don't see a solid analogy at all. If X had embraced the white girl, then his cause would have been stronger. If non-Kerry lov'n Democrats support Kerry to beat Bush, I don't see a stronger cause, because I know exactly what Kerry is going (or not going to do), and in fact, I believe it will weaken the cause.

[Snellius]

42. Onward Christian Soldiers

There is no way any longer to dismiss the fascist instincts (militarist, nationalist, supremacist, evangelical, atavistic, pseudo-religious) of large sections of the American public as merely the result of ignorance or misunderstanding. There is a conscious attempt to revive the Cold-War hysteria, the ever-present boogey-man, as a way of duping the masses away from social reform, in line with the cynical rule of power elites. And they will follow the march into hell.

[truthspeaker]

16. I don't believe them when they're "right" either

I try to ignore polls altogether, and I wouldn't participate in one if I ever got called.

[shanti]

26. they're worthless either way

and not to be followed at all, imo.

[ProfessorGAC]

31. An Opinion Or An Analysis?

Do you back that up with data, or is that just a gut reaction?
The Professor

[shanti]

49. of course it's my opinion

don't tell me that you actually believe those manipulated polls???

[ProfessorGAC]

52. I Asked A Question. You Gave An Answer

I didn't say anything either way, right? So, the question of whether i believe them is moot. I asked you if you had data to back up your assertion, or whether it was a gut reaction. Your answer provided the appropriate frame of reference for me.

Since you asked:

Actually, since i know people who work for Pew, ARC and ORC, i do believe that the polls are accurately sampled, and diligently implemented.

However, the people behind the scenes know when the data are statistically relevent and when they're not. It's the media that reports single event results as if they're meaningful, even if they're not.

I can't speak for the integrity and credibility of polls done by Roeper, Nielsen, Gallup, et al. I don't know anybody there, and i don't know what sociodynamic tests are used to prevent pulling answers by the nature of the question.

But, if one looks at all the polls as a compendium, which makes the sample size larger, the margin of error smaller, and the magnitude of measurement distortion smaller by the square root of the change in sample size, the results are likely to be accurate.

One poll, on one day, is not meaningful as a standalone value. But, there are ways to look at these data and draw good conclusions.
The Professor

[LeahMira]

18. You're forgetting...

You think CNN wouldn't fabricate poll results to favor their boss in the White House?

... the disclaimer that's usually easy enough to find in all of these polls, namely that they aren't "scientific."

The CNN polls, along with all the internet polls, include only self-selected voters. The individual who can't afford a computer with internet access isn't answering, and the individual who is on the internet but who prefers msnbc.com for news isn't answering either.

Then, of course, there's the calls to "DU this poll" and the parallel calls to "FReep this poll" which probably wind up balancing one another out... but who knows?

Still, I think you are edging around a possibility here. Those fine guys who are designing computerized voting with no paper trails would have no trouble designing a program that would be able to vote, erase the cookie, and vote again. One computer could probably run that program in the background and undetected by CNN for a day or so all by itself.

That's if these internet poll results are really that important to anyone. Some see them as having "entertainment" value only.

[tom_paine]

17. I don't believe ANYTHING Corporate TV Pravda says or emits

It has gotten THAT bad.

The numbers don't make sense, like the 2000 and 2002 Stalinist "elections".

When being lied to, eventually you reach a point where you stop trying to debunk the endless lies, because they have come so fast and furious and regularly and OBVIOUSLY TRANSPARENT that it isn;t worth deconstructing the LIES, just ignoring them.

We have reached such a point. Orwell is spinning FASTER in his grave than the FOUNDING FATHERS, who are spinning very fast indeed. Trust CNNFAUXMSRNC as much as you would trust Soviet Pravda in 1978.

[MallRat]

30. YOU may not believe the media conglomerates...

...but your average independent voter does.

The fact that we dig through all the fine print and find fatal flaws in polling methodology is nothing more than intellectual masturbation: it feels good, but it ultimately changes nothing.

All Joe Sixpack is going to hear is "Bush increases lead over Kerry." The self-fulfilling prophecy starts to gather up steam.

I am officially depressed.

-MR

[tom_paine]

33. So...get depressed. Then pick yourself up and KEEP FIGHTING

Exposing Lies is NEVER "mental masturbation"!

That is a self-defeating attitude. How did the Soviet Citizenry become understanding of what "Pravda" really meant. Did it happen overnight? No! It happened because people woek others up one-by-one until ALL COULD SEE!

I get depressed, too (who wouldn't with Orwellian Tyranny so close we can feel it's carrion breath on our necks) but you can;t let it stop you!

Donate to the Kerry Campaign

Write a Letter to the Editor Exposing Bushevik Lies

Volunteer your time to the Kerry Campaign

Speak out DAILY to as many people as possible

Use your imagination. Think of new things to do to oppose the Imperials

Think of all of us as small drops of water. Individually, we are almost powerless. Together and over time with a concerted effort, we can carve the Grand Canyon!

Cliche, you say? I have personally awakened more than a dozen people (who are now awakening others). I did it by persevering even when I got depressed, when everyone loved Bunnypants* and they though I was a bit wacky.

Guess what? They changed their tune after I predicted the future better than Edgar Cayce! Not that I'm so smart, but Totalitarianism is so lying and predicatbly rigged that its easy if yourve studied Totalitarian Monsters of History to know what the Busheviks will do next.

Chin up! We need you and EVERY Free American NOW!

As my former Rugby Coach used to scream after I took a couple of cleats in a scrum pile, "GET UP!!!!!!!"

Hope that helps. We are only defeated if we believe it.

[MallRat]

44. Morpheus, is that you?

"I have personally awakened more than a dozen people (who are now awakening others)."

Wow. I never thought of it that way. GOP-controlled America, 2004, really is THE MATRIX. What a great metaphor.

I hope we can get enough people to swallow the Red Pill before Election Day.

-MR

[tom_paine]

47. Heh Heh. Yah, that's me.

:evilgrin:

Laurence Fishburne at your service.

NOT (lest Mr, Fishburne's lawyers decide my comments are actionable)!

Yes, the analogy is true, though I wish it weren't. And getting truer with each day the Formerly Free Press of Amerika dies a little more.

And unlike Joey Pants, I NEVER regret having taken the "red pill".

The Blue Pill leads to the Gulags and Concentration Camps. Ask the Russians, ask the 1930s Germans, ask the 39 AD Romans.

[havocmom]

39. Wonderful advice

I practice gardening as a political act and teaching tool

You plan what you want to grow
You prepare the ground
You gather the seed money
You buy the seeds and plant them
You water, protect as much as you can from savage elements
You pray to whatever you try to believe in
You suffer doubt
Seeds still not up
You suffer more doubt
Sprouts start to show
You water, weed, protect and keep praying
Hail or drought hits and much damage is suffered
You adjust your efforts when not working but you keep working
You do not give up
Pretty soon, neighbors stop and ask what the hell you are working so hard for
You keep working and do not give up
Neighbors start seeing that you are growing something, some heckle, some start to ask questions
You keep working and you do not give up
New things grow and start to ripen
You still get heckled from time to time but more are starting to ask questions
You see other gardens popping up and the nay sayers eat their words while you eat your harvest.

Havocmom's Rule for Gardening and Social Change:
Never give up

[AngryAmish]

40. Kinda like "Being There"?

[havocmom]

43. yes and no

With 41% of the food Americans consume now being imported, I also truly believe we need to learn/teach how to grow a bit of our own chow with whatever resources we each have available. We need to be creative in looking for those resources.

Don't know about the rest of you, but I do not want my belly to be at the tender mercies of the corporations and political factions which now hold my gas tank hostage. I just don't think they are especially reliable or honorable and I refuse to leave my very exsistance to them.

And it is empowering to people to actually grow some of what they put on their tables. That empowerment often stirs embers in other areas of their lives. Is especially good for city kids, I think.

Thumb you nose at corporate farming: shop at farmers's markets if you can and grow your own lettuce for a start. Do not let the corporations eat you or lead you with their polls.

[AngryAmish]

48. I meant in the Chauncy Gardner sense

[havocmom]

51. Realize that

am saying it is just that easy and just that complicated :hi:

[shanti]

50. thank you!

i've never believed polls and don't aim to start.

[bacchant]

19. The media parallel universe is enveloping us

I think Americans ARE getting information, it's just the wrong information. Fox's share numbers are misleading in this regard. Practically everywhere I go; businesses, bars, restaurants, if there's a television on it's tuned to Fox. If you factor in the "me too" echo from other outlets trying to emulate Fox's success, their influence is far more pervasive then realized. Stir in some daily talk radio and you have a splendid recipe for mass ignorance. Many Americans are simply working from a whole different knowledge set than we are.

[calimary]

35. Sometimes it pays to complain at these establishments.

The bank in our neighborhood has its TV on all the time, and sometimes it's on Pox News. I complained. Several times. Then, I noticed one day that the TV was on CNN. I mentioned that to one of the tellers, thanking them for changing the channel. A few weeks later, it was back on Pox and I complained again. It's been going back and forth like that. I don't stop. I tell 'em as a former journalist (as well as one of their bank customers) that I'm offended by the Pox Network because of the shoddy "news reporting" job it does - a disservice that I would NEVER have dared to perpetrate when I was working. It's see-sawed back and forth. My success hasn't been permanent. But I AIN'T GIVIN' UP!

By the way, one of the tellers I complained to (before going to the manager of the day, as usual), was a middle-eastern woman. She whispered to me that she was amazed at how ill-informed most Americans are. She said we don't see much of ANYTHING here.

[bluedog]

22. to people who are gloomy and doomy

listen up: that poll: 1,201 adults conducted April 15-18. The margin of error was plus or minus three percentage points.

well, it took them pollsters 3 days to get the results they wanted.3 days to get bush in the lead by what.3 or 4 points.....1201 is not alot of people.another poll had 675 people polled.......shows how desperate the republicans are to get bushs numbers up.....

its all a farce to make people believe that bush is still ahead.most people don't even READ the number of people polled....

[K8-EEE]

24. It's All Bullshit -- Don't Fall For It

Bush is going down. They can minipulate all they want....but the lid is coming off of all the lies. Remember when his approval rating was 80%? THAT was depressing and yes people are slow but once they wake up they will not be fooled again so easily.

[emc]

28. what it boils down too

it at this point boils down to who Kerry picks for VP

Notice you havent heard anything recently----He better get one picked here soon and pick the right one----It will make a big difference

[havocmom]

23. Just to mess with your heads a bit

there is a thread in the Meeting Room (astrology related) that warned bush* was gonna get a bit of a bump up in April and that we shouldn't worry about it. It is temporary.

I don't believe in astrology, but damned if she wasn't on the mark with this one. (And that always annoys me).

Edited: found the remark I referenced.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=111x19740#19791
reply 4

[theeorg]

27. Scares the crap out of me

I sure hope it's temporary!!

[BobDCousy2004]

34. AHHHHH!

THE SKY IS FALLING!! THE SKY IS FALLING!! THE WORLD IS GOING TO END....wait a second...

[karabekian]

36. your foolish

"They are every bit the aryan supremiscists and fascists that existed during WWII."

Wow i mean wow....and people here wonder why other consider the left condescending and elitist.

[seabeyond]

37. screw em, not true

they have lied about all numbers as has media, as has the people counting votes in 2000, 2002 adn working on doing 2004

dont believe em

[seabeyond]

38. it plays on tell a lie enough

adn people believe it to be the truth even though every piece of evidence points opposite

[havocmom]

41. No, it shows what those commissioning the polls what to happen

Just keep on educating others, setting examples for others and working to get the truth out.

Along with exposing the follies and fallacies of the malAdministration, make much noise about BBV and all the problems/tampering potential of the computer balloting systems and the agendas/$contributions of the people who own/run them. They can only steal the election if the voters believe in their versions of the vote count. Thus, they have to form polls which will point to the conclusions they want to program.

Do not let them get away with it.

[patrice]

45. Stanley Milgram demonstrated this dynamic decades ago . . . .

You have heard about his experiments with telling people to shock other people in a staged learning scenario. Put the trappings of "authority" on ANYONE and 60+% of people will do what they are told, all of the way to the top of the shock scale, especially during times of fear and confusion.

[ronnykmarshall]

46. And the Henny Penny goes to ...........

KEITHYBOY!!

[stinkeefresh]

54. !!! Can anyone help find an article? !!!

I read an article (that I should have bookmarked) late last year that discussed how a top polling group was having such trouble getting respondents that they were using the same phone numbers over and over. This article had full admission that this was becoming the practice.

I have been trying for a while to google for this info, but I can't figure out a phrasing that doesn't return tons of material.

Does anyone remember this news item?

[Angry Black Man]

55. Kerry is losing support of anti-war crowd

Here's my take on why Kerry has lost some support:

Think about where we were a year ago, and where we are today in terms of the voice of us who are against this illegal war in Iraq. A year ago, most of the players in the race for the Democratic Party nomination were speaking out big-time against the war. consequently, the anti-war majority was galvanized, aggressive, and pointed in the same direction. Today, the voice on the Left getting the most attention, quite obviously, is John Kerry, the presumptive nominee... and what comes out of his mouth??? BUSH LITE!!! The dude sounds like Bush when it comes to Iraq! There is no denying that! He might do some things A LIITLE bit differently, but not much. It's the Republicrats all over again. The anti-war voice has been so marginalized that two totally insignifanct candidates (Nader and Kucinich) are all that is left as a real outlet for this voice.

What a shame! What has happened is the Left, in it's un-ending desire to defeat Bush, has sold its soul to the one guy the electorate thought could be Bush, but as it turns out, the guy is only about a 5% improvement!

[BillZBubb]

59. Whoa there ABM!

Saying Kerry is only a 5% improvement over Bush* is nonsense. I have been against the Iraq fiasco from the beginning. I do not agree with Kerry's position on the war. I agree with you that Kerry is taking a losing position on it and it is hurting him--and may cost us the election.

But still, Kerry is 1000% better than Bush* on EVERY OTHER issue: Supreme Court appointees? Environment? Economy? Defense (other than Iraq)? Education? Health Care? Social Security? etc. etc. etc.

[Angry Black Man]

61. IT DON'T MATTER

It's all about WAR, dude. We're right back on the treadmill. What is this, Groundhog day? Kerry has said he will do nothing different then Bush... oh yeah...he wants "more UN involvement"...don't mean squat! The dude is racing towards the Right and sell'n us out! I'm sick and tired of this always happening. How about facing Bush with a candidate THAT WE CAN BELIEVE IN! It's like we're afraid of our own power or something. We blather on and on about the war, but then elect some dude who supports it. And to top that off, the irony of ironies, it actually hurts our cause rather then help it. I give up man.

[napi21]

60. Polls totaly depend on how the question is asked!

Have you ever been polled? I have. Once on the phone, and several times I've been invited to do the Zogby online.

There are some questions you CAN'T answer!Like when none of the optional answers apply, but you don't have the option of answering "none of the above".

I have no way of knowing what the real feeling of the majority is, but I think if you step back and try to look at the whole picture, it seems the current "polls" are misleading.

IE: The economy IS improving...if you are an investor.

There probably were 300,000+ jobs ceated last month....but 80% were part-time with no benefits.


Things like just these 2 items do not really affect the higher income earners of America, but there are MORE low to median income people. That tells me that the polls are misleading.

Think about it, if there was an apparent runaway election now, in April, all the excitemenet would be taken out of the media stories. Now, we couldn't have that.....could we?

[MISSDem]

68. The idea of THE VOTE is just

a romantic notion, I'm starting to believe. First of all, only about 13% of those who could vote do so. And anyway I think that there are powerful men somewhere who decide it all anyway. (am I having a bad day or what?)

[dedhed]

66. Bait-and-switch tactics are working...

The latest example...

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Bush administration sharply scaled back its plan to http://customwire.ap.org/dynamic/stories/O/OVERTIME_PAY?SITE=SCCHA&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT">revise overtime regulations on Tuesday, saying its goal was to increase protections and make more white-collar workers eligible, not take away their extra pay.

... of a rather disturbing pattern:

1. Bushies announce a policy.
2. Policy pisses off a lot of people, including potential swing-voters.
3. Bushies later back down from policy.
4. Swing-voters get all warm and fuzzy thinking, "Maybe W.'s not so bad afterall!"

And the sad-sacks are falling for it...

[OneTwentyoNine]

75. Lets see...Don't the call that flip-flopping??

Same thing the flaming RW talk show host chastise Kerry for on a daily basis.

Kerry flip-flops but King George always "stays the course". Yeah...BS

David

[Deja Q]

85. It will only work if KERRY spells it out in a TV ad

His only one ad I've seen so far is so bad it's beyond description.