Who was Cain's wife and where did she come from?

[Bandit]

This is one aspect of creationism I never understood. Cain went off and married a woman from another tribe. Whaaaa??

[emad]

1. Jezebel? or his dad's other (largely unreported) Mrs, Lillith?

One or the other maybe

[lectrobyte]

2. Cain's wife was Eve. That's what they were really fighting about.

Religion, it's a m*th*rf*ck*r

[TX-RAT]

3. The land of Nod?

Little place down the road?

[Richard D]

4. I'd recommend . . .

. . . reading a book called "Ishmael" by Daniel Quinn. He makes quite a good argument for Genesis being a coded historical story of the battle over land between the older hunter/gatherer societies who lived in harmony on the land in "Eden" as represented by Able, and the newer agricultural societies as represented by Cain. Quite an interesting read.

[el_gato]

9. I recommend that book too

[zbdent]

5. Can't remember, but wasn't that the name used for the "All-" (or nearly

all-) "Female rock festival"?

There was a large "concert" featuring a bunch of female musicians, and I believe it was based on the name of wife of Cain.

(I keep thinking Elektra, but I don't think so).

I also believe that there is a reference in the Jewish religion where she is named.

[mainer]

8. Lilith

I think that's the name you're looking for

[zbdent]

16. Thanks, that's the one I was thinking of, but apparently I was corrected

by post # 12.

[mainer]

12. Lilith was Adam's first wife

Something I didn't know:


a) Having decided to give Adam a helpmeet lest he should be alone of his kind, God put him into a deep sleep, removed one of his ribs, formed it into a woman, and closed up the wound, Adam awoke and said: 'This being shall be named "Woman", because she has been taken out o f man. A man and a woman shall be one flesh.' The title he gave her was Eve, 'the Mother of All Living''. 1

(b) Some say that God created man and woman in His own image on the Sixth Day, giving them charge over the world; 2 but that Eve did not yet exist. Now, God had set Adam to name every beast, bird and other living thing. When they passed before him in pairs, male and female, Adam-being already like a twenty-year-old man-felt jealous of their loves, and though he tried coupling with each female in turn, found no satisfaction in the act. He therefore cried: 'Every creature but I has a proper matel', and prayed God would remedy this injustice. 3

(c) God then formed Lilith, the first woman, just as He had formed Adam, except that He used filth and sediment instead of pure dust. From Adam's union with this demoness, and with another like her named Naamah, Tubal Cain's sister, sprang Asmodeus and innumerable demons that still plague mankind. Many generations later, Lilith and Naamah came to Solomon's judgement seat, disguised as harlots of Jerusalem'. 4

(d) Adam and Lilith never found peace together; for when he wished to lie with her, she took offence at the recumbent posture he demanded. 'Why must I lie beneath you?' she asked. 'I also was made from dust, and am therefore your equal.' Because Adam tried to compel her obedience by force, Lilith, in a rage, uttered the magic name of God, rose into the air and left him.

[muriel_volestrangler]

20. But that's not part of 'normal' Christianity

Lilith doesn't appear in the (Christian) Bible.

[mainer]

23. I think it's part of Hebrew mythology?

I did have to laugh at the phrase "normal Christianity."

[tekriter]

6. That's a great question and I think I'll put it to my local...

Christian co-workers.

I got into it once with one of them about alcohol, and he stated just how evil it was, etc. So I asked him about Jesus' first miracle, transforming the jars of water into wine. Why would Jesus create something that it was sinful to consume?

No answer - so I asked him about the part in the Passion (text - not movie)where someone "soaked a sponge in sour wine", and gave it up to him on a stick for him to drink.

Why would Jesus do, as one of his last acts on earth, a sinful act by drinking the wine?

Now this guy is a very devout and sincere Christian, and I wasn't trying to beat him up or anything, but I wondered if he ever thought of these inconsistencies. He was a Bible literast, every word is the true word of God, no need to interpret, etc.

Well, he said, they didn't really mean "wine" - they meant "grape juice".

So I asked him if "wine" was the only word in the Bible we weren't supposed to believe or were there others?

He said that people like me were always trying to smear the Bible, etc, I should just read it and let it be my guide.

[Ripley]

10. I had that exact conversation once.

With a guy at work. He told me it was "new" wine, which is non-alcoholic. Trying to be a compassionate atheist, I held back the guffaw inside me. I asked him if the Bible explained that. He said no, his preacher explained that.

:crazy:

P.S. to the poster above you....the concert was Lilith. Don't think they do them anymore...Sarah Mclaughlin organized them.

[truthspeaker]

11. what's screwy about that is Bible DOESN'T say drinking alcohol is a sin

Of course they drank wine back then (often watered down) - there was little potable water and alcohol kills the microbes.

I believe the Bible warns against overindulgence and drunkenness, but not drinking alcohol per se. A lot of what Bible-thumpers think is in the Bible isn't even there.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

38. the poor bastrd....fundamentialism stops normal thought process

:scared:

[muriel_volestrangler]

7. Since the Bible sneaks in the strange

"sons of God" who married the "daughters of men" in Genesis 6, perhaps she was a "daughter of God". You also have to explain who Seth, the 3rd son of Adam and Eve, married - unless you allow a bit of incest with his unnamed, but acknowledged, brothers and sisters.

Anyone know what the Creationist take on the "sons of God" is? I presume they don't go for the von Daniken line.

[cclark401]

13. The sons of God

were fallen angels who intermixed with humans.

Remember that the Jews were promised a Messiah, Satan tried to pollute human kinds seed by having his "followers-the fallen" mix with humans. In that case the Messiah would not be able to come....

However God did have some people (Noah) who were not polluted thus he sends the flood to "clean up" humanity so to speak.

As far as who Cain and Able married..it had to be either sisters or neices.....

Jude verse 6 talks about the angels mixing with people..

As far as the wine it was OK in Jesus day and it is today as long as we don't get drunk with it.

Christianity should not be all about what one cannot do but what one can experience and what one can do for his/her fellow man.

[Bandit]

19. As far as who Cain and Able married..

The bible is fairly clear about this. Cain killed able so Able never married anyone and Cain went off and married a woman from another tribe. From Nod I believe and it was not his sister thus this post. Who was she? We know she was not his sister so who then was she. I don't mean what was her name. we know that it was Lilith. But Who was she? Who was her father and where did he come from?

[ElsewheresDaughter]

14. in Land of Nod..east of Eden.........she came from.Enoch

[opihimoimoi]

15. Newport, California is where she came from.

Those guys keep talking in tongues and no one can unnerstan them, this is why the woman came from Cali, the high roller part.

[Khephra]

17. Damn, I just read the answer to this question

I believe that there's a Gnostic text that answers that specific question.

[Khephra]

18. Here it is

* The Book of Jubilees: This obscure Hebrew text offers an answer to a
question that has vexed Christians for centuries -- if Adam and Eve
only had sons, and if no other humans existed, who gave birth to
humanity? This text reveals that Adam and Eve had nine children and
that Cain's younger sister Awan became his wife. The idea that humanity
was born of incest would have been radical -- and heretical.


http://www.forrelease.com/D20031219/nyf057.P2.12192003130434.04076.html

[library_max]

21. Oh well, as far as that goes,

you have the largely contradictory creation accounts in Genesis 1 and Genesis 2-4. A fundie friend once explained to me that Genesis 1 describes the general creation, and Genesis 2-4 describes a special "extra" creation, not of man and woman, but of a man and a woman, and details their history particularly. So presumably Cain's wife (and Seth's) were some of the women created in Genesis 1, or their descendants.

Personally, I always saw Genesis 2-4 being intended as a fable and not as history. The Bible is full of such stories. Remember, Jesus himself liked to teach lessons with fables, none of which he ever claimed were literally true.

[cclark401]

22. The reason the two

creation stories are different is that there were two views about God in early Jewish writings....

In the one God speaks and everything is ok


In the other God takes a hands on approach in creating man and woman with dust etc....

[library_max]

24. . . . and everything goes to crap.

Genesis 1 is actually a much more recent story than Genesis 2-4, more "theologically correct." The God of Genesis 2-4 is something of a bungler. Note that he has to hurry to remove the Tree of Eternal Life from Eden after the fall, because if Adam and Eve had eaten of that tree also they would have had eternal life and God wouldn't have been able to do anything about it.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

25. where did Methuselah come from?....GIANTS.......

There Were Giants in the Earth in Those Days

And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
-- Genesis 6: 1-4 (KJV)

There Were Giants in the Earth in Those Days

"There were giants in the earth in those days" -- now meaning roughly, "They don't make men like that anymore" -- don't begin to capture the strangeness of the original.

As chapter 6 of Genesis begins, we have just learned the entire genealogy of Noah, grandson of Methuselah, in meticulous detail. In a few verses, we will hear that Yahweh plans to wash mankind (saving Noah's family) off the face of the earth. And here, out of nowhere and seemingly to no end, we learn the entirely unrelated history of peculiar beings called "Nephilim" in Hebrew and "giants"

According to Genesis, the Nephilim are the offspring by mortal women of so-called "sons of God ." But who are these immortals, what are they doing with desires for women, and how do they consummate their marriages? The Bible never illuminates such questions; as for the giant Nephilim, loosely identified as famous heroes, we never learn their names. Apparently, they drown along with the rest of mankind in the Flood. (Nephilim-like giants are, however, mentioned in Numbers 13: 32–33.)

Wherever this story came from -- it does resemble ancient myths -- and whatever it's doing in Genesis, it is rather foreboding; it may be meant to exemplify the depraved shennanigans that brought on the Flood. Whoever the "sons of God" are, they clearly have no business mingling with mortals, whether or not great "heroes" are the result.

[muriel_volestrangler]

26. Methuselah was a descendant of Adam

his great great great great great grandson.

http://www.biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?passage=GEN+5&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on&showxref=on

[library_max]

31. Not Biblically.

Biblically, according to Genesis, Adam was Methuselah's great-great-great-great-great grandfather. It goes Adam, Seth, Enosh, Kenan, Mahalalel, Jared, Enoch, Methuselah.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

34. i'm confused..I thought Enoch was cain's 1st born son?

[library_max]

35. A different Enoch.

Common name back then, maybe.

:silly:

[BlueEyedSon]

27. Chill, it's just a story!

[truthspeaker]

28. to us, yes, but some people actually think it's real

One of those people is our president.

[Bandit]

37. According to some so is Evolution

I am suggesting some grey matter be put to use.

[SheepyMcSheepster]

29. at first glance i thought this thread was about John McCain's wife.

:silly:

[riverwalker]

30. how about Noah and incest?

I think it's all metaphor too, but how about after the flood there is just Noah his wife and daughters....yet they re-populate the earth.

[library_max]

32. I think you're thinking of Lot.

Noah had three sons that survived the flood, Ham, Shem, and Japheth.

[deportivoI]

33. Did you see that

Movie last Night, John Huston "The Bible"?

[Az]

36. Some other tricky questions

Did Adam have a belly button?

Who has more ribs? Men or women?

Which did god create first? Man or animals?

Don't hurt yourself trying to answer these. Have fun. Play with others. :evilgrin:

[LastDemocratInSC]

39. I live in a major fundie area and this question does make them itch ...

Most of the fundies around here subscribe to the notion that Cain's wife was Eve and that incest was OK because man was still living in a sinless state, i.e., no apple eating yet.

Now, the natural followup question to a fundy is: Which is worse, in your mind, a son screwing his mom or eating an apple? The answer is invariably that God said nothing to them about screwing each other, but did warn them about the apples. Besides, the apple-eating thing is a metaphor for gaining knowledge, which was the real sin.

Now, I know that the fundies here have a high incidence of incest and child-rape (quite true) and given that they shun knowledge like the flu, I'd say they're living up to the ancient standard pretty well.

[Az]

40. Gaining knowledge of what?

Wasn't that the tree of knowledge of good and evil? But that would mean that Adam and Eve didn't know the differene between good and evil and thus didn't know who to listen to, god or the serpant. Talk about a dilema.

[kimchi]

41. The land of Nod.

She was one of the "Other People". This story , made into a tract booklet gives the pagan interpretation of how we don't need to be saved, because we are the "other people". Enjoy!

http://ayla.brinkster.net/OZWeAreTheOtherPeople.asp

On edit: the relevant passage:

Accursed and marked for fratricide,
16 Cain left the presence of Yahweh and settled in the land of Nod, east of Eden.

We can assume that the phrase "left the presence of Yahweh" implies that Yahweh is a local deity, and not omnipresent. Now Eden, according to Gen. 2:14-15, was situated at the source of the Tigris and Euphrates rivers, apparently right where Lake Van is now, in Turkey. "East of Eden," therefore, would probably be along the shores of the Caspian Sea, right in the Indo-European heartland. Cain settled in there, among the people of Nod, and married one of the women of that country. Here, for the first time, is specifically mentioned the "other people" who are not of the lineage of Adam and Eve. I.e., the Pagans.

So let's look at this story from another viewpoint: There we were, around six thousand years ago, living in our little farming communities around the Caspian Sea, in the land of Nod, when this dude with a terrible scar comes stumbling in out of the sunset. He tells us this bizarre story, about how his mother and father had been created by some god named Jahweh, and put in charge of a beautiful garden somewhere out west, and how they had gotten thrown out for disobedience after eating some of the landlord's forbidden magic fruit of enlightenment. He tells us of murdering his brother, as the god of his parents would only accept blood sacrifice, and of receiving that scar as a mark so that all would know him as a fratricide. The poor guy is really a mess psychologically, obsessed with guilt. He is also obsessively modest, insisting on wearing clothes even in the hottest summer, and he has a hard time with our penchant for skinny-dipping in the warm inland sea. He seems to believe that he is tainted by the "sin" of his parent's disobedience; that it is in his blood, somehow, and will continue to contaminate his children and his children's children. One of our healing women takes pity on the poor sucker, and marries him...