GOP friends don't like Bush but dislike Kerry too

[heidiho]

Today I had yet another of myGOP friends tell me that she doesn't like Bush and doesn't want to vote for him BUT Kerry isn't showing her anything that makes her want to vote for him either.

This is the fourth such conversation I've had in the past few weeks.

How is Kerry going to win over the GOP fence-sitters? These people are going to probably make the difference in this election.

[Richardo]

1. I tell the ones I talk to: "just stay home then".

That's more palatable to some than voting for Kerry, and it's alright with me.

[Bandit]

34. Exactly ~ We will be much better off if they just sit this one out

Remember we have Congress at stake also. A Republican may be repulsed by Bush* and not want to vote for him but they will still vote R right down the line. If they stay home we may just pick up some house seats as well as the Presidency.

[Richardo]

35. LOL! Jethro Tull: "Really don't mind/If you sit this one out..."

"Your word's but a whisper, your deafness a SHOUT."

Thick as a Brick, indeed! GOP theme song.

[w13rd0]

2. Kerry doesn't need to win them over....

....you just need to convince them to not vote in the Presidential column, or vote third-party. Seriously, with many moderate and ultra-conservative GOPers, we need to stop trying to pander to them to win them over, and convince them instead to just abstain.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

3. I supported Wes Clark from day one! He showed the ability to...

win over moderate/liberal and disenfranchised Republicans. Wes Clark would also have won us Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Arkansas, Louisiana, and Tennessee.

If I could, I would replace Kerry with Clark.

Clark, unlike Kerry is very confident of himself and is much more articulate than Kerry.

JK is our candidate now. I do not see him winning over many Repubs!

Wes Clark was inpsiring to me, JK isn't!

:-(

[Richardo]

5. I was with you, Progressive1

I thought Wes would be a crossover slam dunk. :(

[PROGRESSIVE1]

6. Alot of conservative voters in SC and Virginia liked Clark.

The veterans LOVED him!

This nation lost a great opportunity.

[Carolina]

38. couldn't have said it better

:toast: Clark was my guy and I used to have a Clark avatar.

Everything you stated absolutely captures my feelings ...

read the following from Counterpunch on Kerry:

Kerry, for his part, appears to have wholeheartedly adopted the losing strategy of Al Gore. Trapped by his unwillingness to condemn the Iraq War as a hopeless disaster, he is finding less and less that he can point to that distinguished his own Iraq policy from Bush's. That leaves him struggling to find an issue on the domestic side that will fire up the masses....

Tax reform might make a potent campaign theme, but Kerry is so luke warm on this topic that nobody's really paying much attention...

The trouble is, Kerry ... is so in hock to the Lieberman wing of the Democratic Party-what Howard Dean used to refer to quite accurately as the Republican wing of the Democratic Party-that he can't take ... progressive position.

That means he too has to walk on a knife edge, offering up campaign proposals that are cold oatmeal to an electorate that's hungry for red meat, and hoping that by running as a smarter, friendlier, less racist Republican he can eke out a victory in the fall.

It might work. Al Gore came close, after all. But what Kerry and his strategists seem to be forgetting is that for all his negatives and all his problems, last time Bush was the governor or Texas. This time he's the president and the commander in chief. That gives him a lot of votes right off the bat.

[k in IA]

4. This is what I have found also. People who are upset with * so they

plan to just not vote. They haven't seen anything yet that makes them want to vote for Kerry.

It's early though, so, hopefully with some time, Kerry will get their vote. But people who voted for shrub before and won't do it this time is good enough for me too.

[maggrwaggr]

7. I don't even know what Kerry stands for, except John Kerry

???

What exactly DOES Kerry stand for, except an intelligent alternative to Shrub?

For most people that's not gonna be enough.

[emulatorloo]

14. www.johnkerry.com

look under "issues" on the right side of the page

[cavebat2000]

29. O please

Like george bush telling people hes gonna do this and that. Its all bull shit. Dont believe everything you read emulator.

[rockymountaindem]

8. Just tell your friends to visit the Kerry website

and read what Kerry has to say. I found the stuff on the website to be very informative. If they like his positions, maybe they'll vote for him. If not, then perhaps they'll still abstain. You've got nothing to lose.

[wasichu]

9. why do you have GOP friends?

how can you stand to be around them?

[heidiho]

10. They aren't Bush lovers

and they are long-time friends and/or co-workers. They are moderates and I think it's very encouraging that they don't like
Bush AT ALL.

They are also anti-Iraq war and pro-choice so they aren't so bad.

[Jimmy Buffett]

13. So?

Just because someone has different points of views doesn't make them a bad person. Everyone has differences and maturity is the ability to overcome those differences and be friendly. To be honest I have GOP friends who I'd trust with my own life over anyone here.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mike Daniels]

18. I see absolutely nothing wrong in what he said

I have friends who fall on both ends of the political spectrum and most of my relatives and all my in-laws vote Republican but are not hard right ideologues. We don't agree on many issues but we're mature enough to respect each other's opinions and I personally see more tolerance for others in the way they live their lives than I see from a certain segment of posters on this site.

Go for it if you demand ideological purity amoung your friends but I find that a shallow and incomplete way to go through life and I think the majority of the American public is more in line with those who don't define their friends based on political affiliation alone.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

22. I don't need purity I just see a real antagonism towards people here

in a number of this guys posts. I'm not going to use the F-word because I've seen no evidence of it but I'm wary of people who come to the boards being harsh to people here.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

32. Our friend here seems to have vanished - oh well

buh bye

[catzies]

43. Welcome to DU, Jimmy Buffett!

:hi:

[Libertarialoon]

11. I'm GOP (hope that doesn't get me kicked out of here!)

and I'm definately not voting for Bush. He is the antithesis of everything a true conservative stands for: free markets, fiscal responsibility, and protection against expanding federal government.

Having said that, I have yet to see a reason to vote for Kerry other than I'm hoping a Republican Congress and a Democratic president will slow the wheels of the federal government. As much as I didn't like Bill Clinton personally, he did a fine job as president with a GOP Congress to check him, and vice versa.

I regret that the Democratic party did not nominate Howard Dean. Despite the fact that I disagree with him on virtually every issue, I respect him as someone who stands up for what he believes in. He is so quick to voice his opinion that I could be pretty confident he wasn't lying to the public, something I can't say about any president since Carter. Kerry is the prototypical liberal elite candidate whose candidacy I simply cannot envision resonating with the general public. He is the ultimate anti-candidate; I can envision voting against his opponent but not for him.

At this point, I'm leaning toward Kerry, but he's going to have to win my vote. Otherwise I will vote Libertarian or abstain.

[CatWoman]

15. welcome to du

:hi:

being republican doesn't get you kicked out of her.

being obnoxious does.

:D

[Libertarialoon]

21. Thanks

I view DU as an enlightening window into what the Democrats on the street are thinking. Though I disagree with much of what the Democratic party represents, I disagree even moreso with the direction the GOP has taken in recent years.

[ibegurpard]

27. Well, if you can agree with me that we are not well-served

by politicians whose primary loyalties lie with their campaign contributors and that standing for something and then working to inspire people into standing with you is a better alternative than trying to scare them then you are the kind of Republican that I can meet halfway.

[Libertarialoon]

46. I agree, somewhat

The problem is that hardly any politician can get to a position of power at the highest levels without making himself beholden to special interests. I wish it wasn't the case, but I have seen very few examples to the contrary. The Congressman whom I consider to be the most honest man in Washington, Ron Paul, is a rare political animal.

OTOH, my senator, John McCain, seems to be one of the few Republicans left who actually is willing to maintain friendships with people on the other side of the aisle. He is one example of a politician who is willing to work with Democrats on legislation, even though he is a staunch defender of conservative principles.

[hippiegranny]

36. i don't know if we qualify as

"democrats on the street." i've been here since the spring of 2001 and i would say that the people here are not actually representative of the average democratic american. most democrats, just like republicans definitely are not this passionate about their party, or politics in general.

that being said, what exactly is it the party represents that you disagree with?

in an earlier post you stated that unless john kerry can win your vote you'd vote 3rd party. do you realize that if alot of people do that, we are in for four more years of cheney policy? is that ok with you?

[Libertarialoon]

45. Policies

that being said, what exactly is it the party represents that you disagree with?

First, let me list the things on which I agree with the Democratic party.

As a libertarian-leaning Republican, I strongly side with the Dems platform on civil liberties and social issues. As a Christian, I strongly advocate the separation of church and state. I believe personal issues/decisions should be left to the individual as long as the rights of others are not infringed. I am strongly opposed to the use of military force unless vital American interests are at risk. As such, the Iraq war is a debacle to me. Finally, I am strongly opposed to capital punishment as it increases the chances of innocents being put to death.

Now for the things that I have a problem with.

I am opposed to any sort of socialized medicine, retirement program, or other welfare scheme. While the motives for these programs are noble, the government has proven time and time again it is incapable of providing an efficient service for the money. IMO, the poor in this country would be much better served if taxes and regulations were slashed across the board, and these government programs were replaced by charitable organizations willing to do the same work. Americans are the most generous people on earth. A reduced tax burden would result in more money being available for these charitable purposes.

I am also a strong proponent of the right to bear arms. Studies have shown that concealed-carry laws dramatically reduce the violent crime rate. I simply do not understand why much of the Democratic party insists on disarming the law-abiding public. If you commit a crime with a gun, you should be punished for the crime, not for having a gun.

Finally, I am strongly opposed to taxation except in cases where the need has been clearly demonstrated, and I believe the Democratic party has traditionally been too quick to introduce new taxation when it is not justified. Certainly, Republicans have done the same thing, but not as often as Democrats. You simply cannot justify confiscating the property of someone and redistributing it to someone else via the state without a damn good reason. In general, I believe the state is largely a consumer living off the productive part of society.

[Richardo]

30. Well, not *always*, CW!

...considering some people who are still here!

(Nya-ah-ah) :D

[info being]

44. I'm a Green Democrat and agree with you

I just don't think Kerry has any appeal. I don't know what he stands for and I really don't care. This is part of the problem...his inability to make people give a shit at all.

[John_H]

47. Tell them to stay home or vote for Nader. Either one's a vote for Kerry.

[TreasonousBastard]

12. It's still a long time till the election...

and campaigning hasn't really gotten in stride. The real campaign starts after the conventions.

I'm hoping that a clear message will get out soon enough. Right now Kerry just has to try to not lose what he's already got and not give out negative vibes.

That they are not actively anti-Kerry is a good sign. A very good sign.

[damnraddem]

17. We've got Kerry, so have to work with it.

I suppose it could matter who runs with him as VP. But basically, we need to push the ABB message to Republicans (and the 'vote Kerry' message to Dems). Another big thing is to win over Independents.

[cclark401]

19. As a former Dean supporter

I did not like Kerry at all. When I think about the elections comming up I don't look at it as if I'm voting for Kerry, I'm just voting against Bush.

I think however we need a Dem. pres and congress! With the way * has handled things I think we may have a chance at the Senate this time around and with andy luck take the House back in 08.

[nonconformist]

20. It's only April

The most important thing is that a lot of Republicans are sick of Bush at this point. That means they'll be seriously looking into other candidates in the months to come. After the convention, I think that Kerry will work hard to define himself and his ideas to the American public. Until then, hearing that some are tired of Bush is excellent news. This is our election to lose, no doubt about it.

[Paradise]

23. Please point out to them that Kerry is a good man,

highly intelligent, comprehensively experienced, will make a great President :kick:,
and-that from someone who loves Wes Clark!
Send them some of Kerry's 'plans', from his website, to undo some of the damage * has done. Perhaps, Kerry's plans will tell them what he's all about. Then ask them if they would like to regain the respect of the rest of the world, and the world's cooperation in the fight against terrorism. :)

[IronLionZion]

24. Fuck them

tell them to stay home. Then we can sweep the other races too. Do whatever it takes to keep them from voting for Bush. I've met too many Republicans who despise both of them but say they will vote for Bush because they are Republican. :crazy:

[joeprogressive]

25. several of my GOP friends are sitting this one out

That is as good as a Kerry vote. I have gotten two to admit they are voting for Kerry. Things are looking up. We need the Hispanic and African American vote to show up on election day.

[spinbaby]

26. That's because all they've heard is bad things

There's a huge underground slander machine going full blast to discredit Kerry before people have made up their mind. And I'm not just talking about talk radio and wingnut journalists. There's an explosion of emails going around slandering Kerry. You've surely seen the one that shows all "his" houses, proving what an out-of-touch rich liberal he is.

[cavebat2000]

28. Because for some reason people voted for Kerry

Somehow the poll watching professional politician was elected that stood for nothing but the politician next to him. He doesn't connect with 90% of americans and was the worst possible pick the democrats could have had. This is rediculous.

[Bridget Burke]

31. Yes, people voted for Kerry....

"Somehow" he was elected. This guy is the probable nominee because he won primaries--you win primaries by getting votes. But people won't vote for him.

Don't quite follow the logic here.

[OKNancy]

33. Kerry will do fine...he's just getting started

One thing you have to give Kerry is that he is a very good campaigner. Look at how he came back in the primary. Look at his race with the popular Bill Weld. He has proved that he knows what to do....and WHEN to do it. It won't be long - the Democrats ( and our friends )will have a barrage of commercials....then Nelly bar the Door!!

[rinsd]

37. The "hold your nose" vote......

There's really not much you can do there.

I've had a few friends feel that way about both Kerry and Bush(depending on affiliation). No one seems real "excited" about either. I have a feeling I will be making calls on election day just to get these folks out to vote.

But then again, its early. We are before the conventions and the debates, so I think most folks haven't really tuned in yet.

[Lavender Brown]

39. My sister's one of those fencesitters

She's not registered Republican, but she voted for Bush last time, I'm sorry to say. She's unhappy with him now, and I hope she'll come around to voting for Kerry rather than sitting it out.

[Killarney]

40. Kerry needs to talk more about himself and less about Bush. n/t

[Awsi Dooger]

41. Exactly, and that's why I supported John Edwards

Edwards as inevitable nominee would now be spotlighting one positive vision of his presidency after another, all but ignoring Bush unless a response was mandated by self-defense. The Republicans would be helpless to stop the momentum and crucial swing voters would be lassoed by the day. I have had exactly the same experience in regard to tossup friends as the initiator as this thread, and it's 100% due to Kerry's uninspiring speeches and general bland appearance/personality, hardly a secret when we isolated him.

This campaign season was incomparable in its ignorance -- that we needed an experienced war hero to deflect national security charges, and someone who would battle the attack machine as Dukakis did not.

Against an incumbent you are at his mercy, unless the record is weak and vulnerable, as Bush's is. In that case likeability and a positive vision trump every other prerequisite in a challenger.

We had a cinch in Edwards. Kerry is just good enough to get you beat. That was my DU assessment in Februrary 2003 and unfortunately I see no reason to alter it.

[nonkultur]

42. Tell them to vote 3rd party

Constitution, Reform, or Libertarian. I am sure a GOPer could chose from one of those parties.

It will take votes from "W" and possibly lead to more choices in the future.